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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

  1. #1981

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    If you have a sure t2 kill with protection and are not going to lose against discard - then no.

    Otherwise go for it.

  2. #1982
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by jandax View Post
    Sample hand 1:

    Would not keep. All in on one Chrome Mox and a cantrip. Even on the draw, I think six would always be better.

    Sample Hand 2:

    So keep. So much gas, even in the dark I'd keep this on the draw or play. I'd save the Probe for a drawstep or two, depending on what they play and reveal themselves to be. The Silence could be used proactively in the mean time. I'd keep Mox in hand for Brainstorm, which, save for Ponder, is probably the best card to draw.

    Sample Hand 3:

    A turn 1 hand in the dark. No reason to ship it given the matchup. You can first turn wish for a Therapy for protection later on, or go all in on Ad Nauseum. On the draw, a Probe or piece of protection from the draw step would be ideal.

    I would have played all the hands out in the article as they were written, however the very last one I would have punted. At the point of making 28 goblin tokens, I'd basically be crossing fingers and praying that they wouldn't topdeck an answer, and settle for that. It didn't occur to me to Silence on their upkeep to keep all possible topdecks from helping them not lose.
    Huh, I'm of the exact opposite opinion about Hand 1 and 2. Hand 1 has a basic land (Chrome Mox and extra spell), fast mana, a tutor, and cantrips. I can't possibly see shipping it on the draw, and would probably keep on the play.
    I'm not sure which cantrip is correct to imprint though. We really don't want the extra Chrome Mox, but if Brainstorm bricks you really don't have a good shot at winning. I think the hand is pretty all-in already so I'd go with the Brainstorm, but definitely could be wrong.
    Hand 2 has nothing going on. You have a Probe and some LEDs, but no realistic way to find a tutor. On the draw I could maybe see keeping it, but on the play there's no way. You have better 6-card hands.
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  3. #1983

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Hand 1 - looks tempting at first, but it's a trap. Neither mana source can cast a ritual (unless you rfg wish), so you're looking for 2 mana sources in 4(5 on the draw) cards just to make 8-12 goblins.

    Hand 2 - I'd rather have 6 on the play. On the draw it would probably depend on the day, as realistically you've got 2 turns (+ probe) to whiff on your draws until you're just dead against basically any deck that can interact. Of course if you do hit you're hand is about as stacked as it gets. I probe t1 if I keep it against most decks to know if I need to upkeep silence.

    Hand 3 - Always keep. No fear on the play, Ill-Gotten Gains kill. On the draw my line changes depending on what the card drawn is. (And opponents t1 play/land drop) if you can make 6 mana before saccing LED (drawing a petal or another ritual) and I had reason to think my opponent was playing countermagic, I'd run Burning Wish into it (not saccing LED) then depending on his actions, possibly run out EtW or just tutoring for Ad Nauseam.
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by leegoo View Post
    Hand 1 - looks tempting at first, but it's a trap. Neither mana source can cast a ritual (unless you rfg wish), so you're looking for 2 mana sources in 4(5 on the draw) cards just to make 8-12 goblins.
    You're right that Chrome Mox doesn't cast rituals, but you do have another IMS in hand - you're just looking for any IMS and a B or R card for the Chrome Mox or another IMS. I think it's much riskier to ship that hand than it is to look for a pretty large set of cards between Ponder and your draw steps. It has a strong potential to go off t2. I understand your argument though, I tend to evaluate hands pretty optimistically.

    Bryant, how would you evaluate hands 1 and 2? There's not a clear superior line unlike hand 3.
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I love how people say storm is so easy to play... Sure once you are in the clear you just make mana and do your thing, but man opening hands are tough...
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    This is not the correct line.
    It's an easy hand to go off turn one, I was just incorporating context from the article. One FoW throws a wrench in the works, so if you were referring to first Wishing for a Therapy as not the correct line, care to elaborate?

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmuant View Post
    Huh, I'm of the exact opposite opinion about Hand 1 and 2. Hand 1 has a basic land (Chrome Mox and extra spell), fast mana, a tutor, and cantrips. I can't possibly see shipping it on the draw, and would probably keep on the play.
    I'm not sure which cantrip is correct to imprint though. We really don't want the extra Chrome Mox, but if Brainstorm bricks you really don't have a good shot at winning. I think the hand is pretty all-in already so I'd go with the Brainstorm, but definitely could be wrong.
    Hand 2 has nothing going on. You have a Probe and some LEDs, but no realistic way to find a tutor. On the draw I could maybe see keeping it, but on the play there's no way. You have better 6-card hands.
    I see what you mean, not arguing. It's just that I've sort of trained myself not to be very greedy, so unless it is a no-land Turn 1 hand, it's not looking too good a keep. With my luck, I'd brick on the cantrip and would be drawing dead.

    As for hand two, on the play I might consider shipping it, but in the dark probably not. I figure you have two drawsteps plus the Probe to find business before you're likely past the point of no return, and the probe I'd save for the combo turn. It's loose, but there are way worse seven and six card hands.

  7. #1987

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Because if you wish for Therapy you give the opponent time.
    Blind on the play g1 all they can have to stop you with this hand is FOW, so they need:
    - To be a deck playing FOW
    - Have at least 1 in their hand (~40% if they play 4)
    - Have another blue card to pitch into.

    If you start your game by wishing for therapy you give them at least a turn, which turns on:
    -Daze, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Brainstorm into FOW
    -All kind of discard
    -Wasteland

    All of which can screw you over pretty hard.


    This hand had no cantrips, after wish for Therapy you're left with mana and a tutor. If they can discard it you can easily lose against decks you should win while hoping to topdeck something.

  8. #1988

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmuant View Post
    You're right that Chrome Mox doesn't cast rituals, but you do have another IMS in hand - you're just looking for any IMS and a B or R card for the Chrome Mox or another IMS. I think it's much riskier to ship that hand than it is to look for a pretty large set of cards between Ponder and your draw steps. It has a strong potential to go off t2. I understand your argument though, I tend to evaluate hands pretty optimistically.

    Bryant, how would you evaluate hands 1 and 2? There's not a clear superior line unlike hand 3.
    So let's say best case scenario happens. You cast ponder and hit gemstone mine, black card, x. Next turn you play the mine (playing around wasteland) and imprint the black card onto mox. Now you have 6 mana available. 10 Goblins or Diminishing returns with nothing floating.

    I just don't think either of those lines is strong enough to warrant being "best case scenario" on 7 cards.

    but I look at hands pretty pessimistically
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    Because if you wish for Therapy you give the opponent time.
    Blind on the play g1 all they can have to stop you with this hand is FOW, so they need:
    - To be a deck playing FOW
    - Have at least 1 in their hand (~40% if they play 4)
    - Have another blue card to pitch into.

    If you start your game by wishing for therapy you give them at least a turn, which turns on:
    -Daze, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Brainstorm into FOW
    -All kind of discard
    -Wasteland

    All of which can screw you over pretty hard.


    This hand had no cantrips, after wish for Therapy you're left with mana and a tutor. If they can discard it you can easily lose against decks you should win while hoping to topdeck something.
    This is a good answer. Thanks for the perspective

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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Great answer indeed. Bryant I assume that you gave us these hands based on us knowing we are playing against UWr miracles? If we do know does anyone change their strategy?
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Great answer indeed. Bryant I assume that you gave us these hands based on us knowing we are playing against UWr miracles? If we do know does anyone change their strategy?
    Good point, I hadn't considered the matchup.

    Hand 1 goes from borderline ok (in my mind at least :ro lleyes:) to unkeepable. Emptny is pretty loose against them, which is already a strike against the hand, and you're also looking for 3 IMSs to use your protection. Most of my wins against miracles preboard are from either going off before they can get counterbalance online or from casting t1 Duress. On the draw, Duress isn't all that reliable either, however.

    Hand 2 is even more unkeepable. No Duress, no clear plan to in t1 or 2 besides mising.
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  12. #1992
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Don't quote me on this one, but Broodmate's token being red has been relevant for HoneyT.
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    Strange as it may seem, this deck seems like the best place for Ruhan of the Fomori. A 7/7 with the right equipment will end games nightmarishly quick, and it comes with the perk of being blue to pitch to Force of Will if you draw into extra copies. And it wouldn't be too hard to protect him in counter-heavy build.
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS View Post
    Don't quote me on this one, but Broodmate's token being red has been relevant for HoneyT.
    I assume this was supposed to be in the nic fit forum?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  14. #1994
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    New jund tech, flipping 4's off of bob wasn't good enough

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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Pretend I said something about storm. jajajaja. /brain dead
    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    My love for Valakut knows no bounds. It mise well read:
    Land - Super Duper Mountain
    When you play a land, LIGHTNING BOLT!
    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    Strange as it may seem, this deck seems like the best place for Ruhan of the Fomori. A 7/7 with the right equipment will end games nightmarishly quick, and it comes with the perk of being blue to pitch to Force of Will if you draw into extra copies. And it wouldn't be too hard to protect him in counter-heavy build.
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  16. #1996
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    Storm Hands V

    Forgot to post this yesterday. Whoops.
    I'm assuming the opponents decisions in the first 5 hands are from actual games? I'm having a lot of problems with the play of our hypothetical Miracles player coming from a UWr player's perspective, especially in Hand 3 starting on turn 3 - should have left up 3 mana to play clique (in response to therapy as it turns out), not played RIP. No free reveal from CB on decay to see if they should shuffle or if they want that card? Also should have pyroblasted Brainstorm, not probe (don't do either if left up clique).

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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS View Post
    HUEHUEHUEHUE BRBRBRBRBRBRBR
    Fixed that for you
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  18. #1998
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Sounds like me announcing my flooded mana after PIF....
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I assume that people have tried Bob before. Why didn't it work out?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  20. #2000
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Bob is just way too slow for this deck, you want to kill them before way before he would do anything.

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