[SCD] Worldgorger Dragon Combo

[kihachi]

Unlike the other builds I've posted here, this one comes in with zero testing. However, it struck me that since the combo doesn't take up too many cards in the deck at a minimum, a "Young Frankenstein"-type build might be possible. I couldn't fit Young Pyro or any red at all into the deck since green is such a better 3rd color for the sideboard, but here it is:

Creatures (14)

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Baleful Strix
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Griselbrand

Spells (28)

4 Entomb
4 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Daze

Land (18)

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

Sideboard (15)

4 Abrupt Decay
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Pithing Needle
3 Cabal Therapy

Basically you are U/B tempo and beat down with Delver and Tasigur, but you can instant-win with either double Entomb + Animate Dead, or with Entomb + Animate Dead + (Strix in play or Tasigur in play or Tasigur in graveyard). Or you can pull a quick Griselbrand reanimation if you don't have the Dragon win. Post-board you can either sideboard out your 11 reanimator cards for decays, TNNs, Deeds and a Therapy, or you can side in any of the non-TNN cards as anti-hate cards if you're going to need to win with the reanimation plan.

It kind of reminds me of a Vintage-style deck that can win via multiple avenues utilizing a few powerful cards, but I'll have to wait until I can get home and test it to see if it even feels viable. I just like that Tasigur gives you an infinite-mana-dump that can win after the Dragon loop comes on, or he does a decent impression of Tarmogoyf otherwise.

[leegoo]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but playing around with Vintage Dragon last night it came up that Dig Through Time let's you stop the combo after making ~ mana.

[death]

Any instant actually, but one must also assess each card's value pre-mana infinitum.

[Amon Amarth]

Honestly, I think sticking to U/b is probably the way to go. Green adds some nice removal options, but drawing that Trop (and / or Bayou) is always annoying in opening hands of Trop + Drownyard x2. I think switching out Deed / Decay for Engineered Explosives / Massacre, might be a good start. Also, Living Wish is a sorcery, so there will be no CWishing for it! :)

Something like this:
1 Stroke of Genius
3 Massacre
1 Dismember
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Wipe Away
1 Pact of Negation
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Explosives

Toxic Deluge is probably better than Massacre unless all you expect is D&T. Deluge is faster and hits bigger creatures and much easier to cast and the lifeloss is negligible.

[Finn]

Any instant actually, but one must also assess each card's value pre-mana infinitum.

I think he means that you can eat the dragon. Cool observation.

[leegoo]

Any instant actually, but one must also assess each card's value pre-mana infinitum.

right, but not any instant lets you stop the loop.

The situation I was in was that I had Oona in hand, dragon in gy, animate in hand, but no Bazaar/loot effect. So making ~ mana then stopping the combo to hardcast/use Oona got there.

It's corner case for the most part, but Dig is a card I'm not embarrassed to have in my deck other times so extra value is extra value.

[death]

It eats Dragon, right, that's precisely why it's a nonbo, uncastable pre-combo but if your testing shows otherwise then maybe I'm wrong. I'm saying Intuition (and Cunning Wish) is better. If you have 4 non-Dragon creatures in the deck you can make Intuition piles.

In my opinion, DTT is too narrow. In that situation, true, it's applicable, you stop the loop, dig for Nephalia and that's all she wrote. But how good is it pre-combo?

[leegoo]

It eats Dragon, right, that's precisely why it's a nonbo, uncastable pre-combo but if your testing shows otherwise then maybe I'm wrong. I'm saying Intuition (and Cunning Wish) is better. If you have 4 non-Dragon creatures in the deck you can make Intuition piles.

In my opinion, DTT is too narrow. In that situation, true, it's applicable, you stop the loop, dig for Nephalia and that's all she wrote. But how good is it pre-combo?

well, I think 100% of the time I'd rather have dig than wish in my 75... intuition is about on the same power level. I think a 3 mana spell that eats up sideboard slots and is pretty bad when you're losing isn't worth a spot, but YMMV. Intuition is probably about as useful as dig a good portion of the time, but again if we're assuming this isn't an "all in" deck then I'd rather pick 2/7 as opposed to getting 1/3 in times I'm not comboing. If it is an all in build, I'd suggest not running many of any of them.

[Finn]

It eats Dragon, right, that's precisely why it's a nonbo, uncastable pre-combo but if your testing shows otherwise then maybe I'm wrong. I'm saying Intuition (and Cunning Wish) is better. If you have 4 non-Dragon creatures in the deck you can make Intuition piles.

In my opinion, DTT is too narrow. In that situation, true, it's applicable, you stop the loop, dig for Nephalia and that's all she wrote. But how good is it pre-combo?

Wait. Dig Through Time is uncastable pre-combo? What? In what world? Careful Study is not good right now, but it is possible that a build with Digs and Studies might be good.

[death]

Dig is antisynergistic in a deck that wants creatures/spells in the yard for their reanimation spells or Snapcaster Mage to work.

At this point I want to quote Philipp: That's not how deckbuilding works.

Toxic Deluge is probably better than Massacre unless all you expect is D&T. Deluge is faster and hits bigger creatures and much easier to cast and the lifeloss is negligible.

Massacre is free to cast and lifeloss matters in his deck, he runs 4 Probes and 4 Thoughtseizes.

[MaximumC]

Dig is antisynergistic in a deck that wants creatures/spells in the yard for their reanimation spells or Snapcaster Mage to work.

That's a load of hooey. You don't delve away your Worldgorger, and you can afford to remove just about everything else. This deck isn't trying to load up the yard with a million cards, just get one particular card into the yard. Dig is no more "anti-synergistic" with Dragon combo than Treasure Cruise or Dig were "anti-synergistic" with themselves.

[Finn]

Dig is antisynergistic in a deck that wants creatures/spells in the yard for their reanimation spells or Snapcaster Mage to work.

At this point I want to quote Philipp: That's not how deckbuilding works.



Massacre is free to cast and lifeloss matters in his deck, he runs 4 Probes and 4 Thoughtseizes.

You have to get past that perception because it is not true. Tarmo and Deathrite are fine together. So are Lavamancer and Tombstalker. Good decks use good cards. That fact trumps most cases of apparent antisynergy. I learned this the hard way.

Dig can be made to work with some proper card choices.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

You have to get past that perception because it is not true. Tarmo and Deathrite are fine together. So are Lavamancer and Tombstalker. Good decks use good cards. That fact trumps most cases of apparent antisynergy. I learned this the hard way.

Dig can be made to work with some proper card choices.

Yeah but if you have to make it work with bad cards -> Careful Study; its no longer "Good decks use good cards"

Imho DTT is just a bit overkill. By the time you can cast DTT you already played a bunch of cantrips, so you should have found your missing combo piece already!
Still it might be good to come back if everything got countered BUT If you face graveyard hate and you want to search for an answer I rather have some ponders...

[death]

Er, Goyf and DRS belong to entirely different decks and interact differently. They're cheap permanents and neither one use delve.

If DTT is such a good card, then why aren't we seeing it in Reanimator and TinFins?

[rufus]

...

Imho DTT is just a bit overkill. By the time you can cast DTT you already played a bunch of cantrips, so you should have found your missing combo piece already!
Still it might be good to come back if everything got countered BUT If you face graveyard hate and you want to search for an answer I rather have some ponders...

I'd think it depends on the approach you take to filling the graveyard. DTT should be stronger in decks that use bulk graveyard fillers like Faithless Looting or Breakthrough and less synergetic with tutor-like stuff along the lines of Entomb or Gamble.

[leegoo]

If DTT is such a good card, then why aren't we seeing it in Reanimator and TinFins?

I'd ask you the same on intuition or cunning wish ;)

But to actually answer, it's because you are comparing this deck to reanimator/tinfins, when you should be comparing it to something like omnitell. Just because you use reanimating a dragon to win doesn't mean you are a reanimator deck.

- again, I'm not saying I have the optimal build, or that intuition (or possibly even wish) aren't fine in the deck... just that I'd have to have a very good reason not to play with cards that are better a good portion of the time as opposed to cards that are a little better when I'm winning.

[EunB]

Er, Goyf and DRS belong to entirely different decks and interact differently. They're cheap permanents and neither one use delve.

If DTT is such a good card, then why aren't we seeing it in Reanimator and TinFins?

Reanimator and Tin Fins are both looking to "go off" turn 1 or turn 2, they don't have the ability to stock the graveyard to take advantage of DTT.

If you're playing the Dark Ritual / Lotus Petal version of Worldgorger than you also wouldn't want DTT, but I think we've pretty clearly established that that version is pretty much worse than both the aforementioned decks.

If we're building toward the idea that our combo is compact and thus can fit into a shell, we're acknowledging the game is going to move beyond the first few turns and can include cards like DTT which take advantage of the fact that we're filling our GY with things like cantrips and fetchlands.

Dig serves the same role in our deck as it does in Omnitell -- acts as another spell that works towards assembling the combo while also providing a fairly reliable method of finding the wincon after your combo is up and running. DTT has completely revitalized Omnitell, so I don't think it should be so quickly dismissed in a deck like ours that also seeks to sculpt a perfect hand for a one-turn win.

[death]

LOL. WGD is soft to removal but it's not strictly worse. Each has merits and I'd pick WGD over the other two anytime.

Now Omni-Tell, again, it's a combo deck that doesn't need resources in the graveyard. Different decks, different strokes.

This is my last post. In case you want to try my builds feel free to drop by the other threads. I already broke Worldgorger since last week. Good luck and happy deck building.

Let us let the results speak for themselves. Thank you.

[leegoo]

I already broke Worldgorger since last week. Good luck and happy deck building.

Let us let the results speak for themselves. Thank you.

They say you can't have a discussion if one person has all the answers ;) But yes, congrats on breaking the card.

[Koby]

If DTT is such a good card, then why aren't we seeing it in Reanimator and TinFins?

I'll bite. Because DTT is too slow for these decks. Entomb is one helluva card. It doesn't need or want to commit to long-term plans when it can just win you the game. Right here. Right now. For a single mana.