Additionally you can also stack them (because Legendary), but the clock on Thalia seems nice too.
But Thalia can't get Krosan Gripped or Hurkylls Recalled (which many Storm players seem to be adopting again); bit can be Pyroclasmed etc which some combo decks will try against us.
As Fjaulnir stated the effects stack. In addition:Originally Posted by Megadeus
- the requirement for casting is lower (no specific colored mana)
- also affects obscure but rising in popularity creature combo decks Food Chain, and Alluren
- there is a diversification of "threats"
- We don't scoop just to a pyroclasm, or just a hurkyls (if teeg is out, etc.)
- sphere is better than Ethersworn, or other 1 spell a turn effects because it hurts us less, and it protects itself better. a 3 mana Decay, or a 4 mana K. Grip is a lot for some combo decks.
Usually (2) Spheres and another combo killer i.e. Solitary, Leyline, Teeg, (sometimes RIP) and combo decks will scoop because the hate density exceeds there ability to fight it given the diversification.
Thanks for the help :).
One more question: How do you combat Infect? I'm thinking Swords to Plowshares and Thoughtseize from the SB, is that enough?
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri’s Guile
3 Elephant Grass
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Banishing Light
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
11 forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
SB
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Banishing Light
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Sphere of Resistance
I have tested the following Infect Sideboard Plan:
-3 Rest in Peace
-1 Helm of Obedience
-2 Suppression Field
+3 Swords to Plowshares
+2 Banishing Light
You are not favored with this configuration. You are roughly 45% to win with this configuration.
What I would try today with the sideboard as is:
-3 Rest in Peace
-1 Helm of Obedience
-1 Banishing Light
-1 Solitary Confinement
-1 Green Sun's Zenith
+4 Sphere of Resistance
+3 Swords to Plowshares
This is tested quite a bit less, but has been successful.
The second method if you land Sphere of Resistance you're doing pretty good. It will buy you time. You can typically play it t2 through Daze as a result of a growth effect. Suppression Field will wreak havoc on their man lands, pandelhaven, and fetches. Swords can do clean-up duty through Sphere pretty well, and commonly not be treated by Force of Will as they will tap out trying to kill you and Sphere makes it cost 1.
In this method you can also tax early attacks very effectively with Elephant Grass. Use your early turns to tax and then build up your draw engine. 2 Sphere's is very hard for them to beat.
I don't play black so no Thoughtseize. If I knew the meta and expected infect I would sideboard Melira, Sylvok Outcast which can be fetched with Green Sun's, and still use the tax plan with spheres.
There was some talk a while back about testing peacekeeper as a solution to infect.
When playing Melira, don't attack with it though, they may fetch Dryad arbor to block + invigorate (happened to me, doh) or use Berserk as a removal spell on it
Initially I thought Peacekeeper is not an ideal choice, but it is plausible that Peacekeeper could be a card that GW Helm wants to run.
GW Helm was designed, refined and tested on the same concepts that make the blue decks of the format good. Mana efficiency, card selection, and wide reaching disruption. In other words beat people with concepts and not silver bullets. i.e. create advantages in game states that hits the format, and not look for silver bullets unless the MU absolutely requires it. This is why the deck plays Mirri’s Guile (card selection) and Suppression Field (wide reaching disruption) over Sterling Grove, and looks to test Sphere of Resistance over more MU specific silver bullet cards.
In reviewing Peacekeeper under that criteria I thought Swords to Plowshares is just more efficient, and affects a wider breath of decks. Swords to Plowshares was originally brought into the deck to fight 4 main decks.
• Death and taxes
• Reanimator
• Rug Delver
• Elves
Peacekeeper is still an excellent sideboard card vs. Reanimator, and Death and Taxes post board, mediocre vs Elves (till decay was found) but vs Rug they would just bolt it. …but rug is winnable without plow, plow was just icing.
Considering that -1 Plow +1 Peacekeeper should be tested. Though I skeptical that the card would come up enough as a one of, and could be reliably cast in time to affect those compressed games. Hitting 3 mana 1 of which being white is a much tougher requirement for this deck than just simply hitting 1 mana in the first couple turns.
[I have a spreadsheet in the works that specifically breaks down all the probabilities of various Enchantress builds that would help explain this in great detail, but it's not ready and not a priority right now:(]
Having said all of that if I were to go into a tournament within a month I likely would keep the deck the same (more because I know how to play it) and hope for the best. If I suspected a strong likelihood of running into infect I would -1 Swords +1 Meliria just because it can be tutored by GSZ and would be equally as effective.
Participated in a small tourney (12 Peeps). Meta: TES, ANT, Lands, Aggro Loam, Turbo Depths, 2x Colorless Eldrazi, UW Ctrl, Miracles, Burn, Dredge and GW Enchantress.
R1 2-0 against Burn
R2 2-0 agains Lands
R3 1-2 gainst Eldrazi
R4 1-2 against Eldrazi
R5 2-0 against UW Ctrl
Just made T4 on tiebreakers.
Semis against Eldrazi (again).
G1 I have to mull to 5, but luckily my opponent doesn't have a fast hand and no T1 Chalice on 1. I stabilize on 1 life and he scoops once the Confinement + drawengine is online.
G2 I mull to 6 and see a decent hand, so I keep. My opponent again has a slow hand and I'm fairly quick in dropping a Confinement + 2 drawpieces. I finish it with RiP + Helm.
Finals are against Miracles, but we decide to split.
List was almost like Freggle:
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri’s Guile
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Sphere of Safety
3 Elephant Grass
2 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
1 O-Ring
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
10 forest
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Plains
3 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
SB:
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Surgical Exraction
3 Sphere of resistance
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 City of Solitude
1 Banishing Light
3 StP
1 Seeds of innocence
I played enchantress at 2 4-round events this week to very mediocre results. The list I'm playing, posted below, isn't really revolutionary, but the inclusion of MD creature removal alongside the suppression fields gives games a very different feeling. Despite the mediocre results, I think the direction I'm going is a good one overall.
4 argothian enchantress
4 enchantress presence
4 Green sun's zenith
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 sigil of the empty throne
4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl
1 exploration
4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
3 suppression field
3 journey to nowhere
1 banishing light
3 Mirri's guile
8 forest
1 plains
4 windswept heath
1 savannah
1 dryad arbor
1 karakas
1 nykthos, shrine to nyx
3 serra's sanctum
The reason for journey to nowhere is that I keep seeing hard to beat hate bears like leovold, emissary of trest in the maindeck, and I'm not sure how to win if my opponent curves T1 drs into that dude. Journey can also be pretty good against BR reanimator, and I was able to steal a game 1 against sneak because of journey. I haven't played against delver with this deck yet, but I suspect that a journey for their insect will take a lot of wind out of their sails.
The suppression fields have been quite good against the fairer midrange decks that seem to populate my meta such as bant, esper deathblade and shardless.
Does anyone have any thoughts, questions, or advice for where I should take this thing next?
Interesting approach! After getting frustrated with Sneak Show I thought about loading up on Banishing Light/Journey to Nowhere/Lignify effects myself, but haven't tried it. My initial thought is that StP might be a better choice than Journey to Nowhere. Obviously it's beneficial that Journey is an enchantment (because you can tutor for it and it synergizes with what this deck is doing). Likewise, StP gets caught in Chalice and doesn't help much vs Sneak Show. However, some points to consider:
- StP is cheap, so you can play it quickly. This is helpful against some of our bad fast-deck matchups like Infect, Elves, Reanimator, and even Delver, and it plays around Daze.
- It's possible you Journeyed something, then built a boardstate that felt favorable but ignored either that creature's effect or power. If your opponent Decays that Journey, you could be fucked by either that effect returning, or them suddenly having lethal on board.
So yeah, keep us posted either way.
Guess I'm playing this pile tomorrow night because I hate magic. I'll let you know if I can win a single game
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Enchantress Presence
3 Need for Speed
2 Titania, Priestess of Argoth
3 Mirri's Guile
2 Primal Rage
3 Exploration
2 City of Solitude
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
3 Sterling Grove
3 Serra's Sanctum
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
7 Forest
1 Plains
...the fuck?
Oh wait, that Titania/Need for Speed/Primal Rage loop is amazing.
Went 2-2. I killed with Titania 3 time I think? It was interesting. Having a quick win condition was cool. Beat Stoneblade and Miracles, lost to show and tell and stone blade. Should've beaten show and tell, but I never drew a third land to keep up my elephant grass + Sphere of safety.
Have you given any consideration to monastery mentor over the sterling groves? The groves seem minimally useful in this version where there isn't really much to tutor for in the maindeck.
Your recent lists all look really interesting. Did you ever try out the sneak attack version of enchantress that you had dreamed up? That really caught my attention quite a bit when you first unveiled it.
Never got to test it. Might try soon though since I can borrow moons and sneaks now. The big thing I'm attempting to do is to make the deck actually able to possibly kill even when I don't have an enchantress, which is difficult to do. The real answer is probably more RIP Helm, but I enjoy off the wall things. One issue with mentor I find is that it turns on removal for the opponent which is another thing I try to avoid. With sneak attack and need for speed versions I have city of solitude to win on the spot undisrupted. Mentor doesn't really have that ability. Also I like the fact that Green Sun finds win conditions in those versions, finding Titania in need for speed and wurm in sneak. At some point I have the ability to just get super threat heavy. I've also thought a bit about splinter twin as a win condition, but I think that is worse than other versions
To the end of winning games even without an enchantress online, I've stolen quite a few games with the cards sigil of the empty throne and doomwake giant, because they are engines unto themselves, even without enchantress online. I agree that the most logical way to build the deck to win without needing enchantresses is to focus heavily on the RiP helm combo, but for some reason, I found these setups to be somewhat unsatisfactory, though it's been a while since I tried them.
Your sneak deck really captured my imagination, and I'm currently trying to figure out who to borrow cards from to try it. I like the idea of a singleton fierce empath to GSZ for to find the creatures you want to show in. That way you can minimize the number of fatties you have in the deck. It also seems like living wish could be a cool way of finding engine pieces, sneak fatties, or utility lands. I know living wish has been discussed previously, but seeing as this is a very different imagining of the deck it might deserve some renewed discussion.
Does anyone have any thought on how to beat BR reanimator? It has always been a challenging MU, but it was never super popular. Now it seems to be everywhere I turn, and they are all packing 4 reverent silence in the board, which makes me hesitant to rely too heavily on leyline of the void. I'm contemplating surgical, but this leaves me vulnerable to unmask/thoughtseize.
Hmm... I never really considered wish or empath. Gonna have to give those some consideration.
As for BR, it's just a poop match up. RIP is slow and also gets hit by leyline. Planar Void exists bit same problem. If it's super heavy you just need to overload on grave hate or play a different deck probably.
I have been contemplating some more out of the box solutions such as Orim's chant, but this sort of delaying tactic has to have a great follow up such as containment priest or RiP or they just kill you 1 turn after that.
The black splash offers thoughtseize against combo which is a very appealing option due to wider applicability. The black splash already appeals to me due to my love of doomwake giant and dread of night, but to support doomwake effectively I'd need to seriously rearrange my MD.
I really feel like I'm trying so hard to gain traction in some bad MUs while struggling to maintain an edge in other favorable or close MUs. I guess it's time to figure out what I'm willing to lose to, and hope to dodge. At least losing to BR reanimator is a quick and painless affair.
Agreed. I haven't seen many of the locals on BR reaniderp playing reverent silence. How common is that? If it's that big an issue you could always try crypt or something or even Scooze since you play 2-4 Green Sun
I *thought* reverent silence was pretty standard tech, since everyone around these parts seems to have 4 in the SB. Scooze seems like a good follow up after they find an answer to whatever speed bump we initially throw in the way. Crypt seems too slow since they have often effectively decided the game on T1. I really feel like it has to be leyline OTV or surgical, then a strong follow up because otherwise we are just resigned to the fact that they will beat us on T1 in the 3rd game some relatively large amount of the time.
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