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Thread: [PRIMER] Oozing

  1. #541

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Sssshh... Did you hear that rustling, creeping sound? That was the sound of Necrotic Ooze growing stronger. What a day.

  2. #542

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by Havrekjex View Post
    Sssshh... Did you hear that rustling, creeping sound? That was the sound of Necrotic Ooze growing stronger. What a day.
    Ooze probably won't be tapping for mana anymore but that doesn't seem like much of a downside

  3. #543
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by Havrekjex View Post
    Sssshh... Did you hear that rustling, creeping sound? That was the sound of Necrotic Ooze growing stronger. What a day.
    We lose Gitaxian Probe but... Y Bye bye shaman!!!
    I will change Gitaxian for Ponder and continue testing more.

  4. #544

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    Being able to Reanimate, Exhume, or Shallow Grave Triskelion when necessary.
    I feel like the ability to deal 1 dmg for 2 mana and the ability to get it to the yard with out a discard outlet(casting it for 0) is more important

  5. #545
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    I haven't Oozed at all lately, so I thought I would give the deck a crack in the post-Deathrite Shaman meta at a tournament at the local this weekend.

    A few thoughts now that DRS is gone (some obvious and some less so):

    • There will be almost no graveyard hate in G1s.
    • Because of this, Reanimate seems better than Exhume because it costs one less mana.
    • Also because of this, Collective Brutality seems better, because you're not at risk of getting the creature you discard eaten by DRS.
    • Collective Brutality also appears to have put to bed the Putrid Imp or no Putrid Imp debate. I think now with two or more Brutality in the deck, Putrid Imp can be safely dropped (I know Pin has been playing without it with success for some time).
    • Probe is gone, and should probably be replaced with some number of counterspells or hand disruption, such as Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Thoughtseize, or Duress.
    • With DRS gone I don't know if we need two Griselbrand, because, at least in G1, it's almost certainly not going to get exiled out of the graveyard before you can Reanimate it. I'm going to start with one.
    • People still often neglect to block Ooze, which makes the Entomb into Devourer kill after no blocks are declared a great play. I think Ooze should stay as a three-of in the maindeck.
    • Cabal Therapy is less good now that Gitaxian Probe is banned, but should probably still be in the list somewhere because flashing it back sacrificing a Shallow Grave'd Griselbrand is still a useful play in many situations. Perhaps two is a good number?
    • Buried Alive was dropped because it is sorcery speed and was a difficult card to profitably use in a DRS-infested meta. Now DRS is gone it should probably come back in some number: most likely three like it was previously.
    • Not having to play around DRS G1 means the deck can attempt to go faster, further supporting the re-inclusion of Buried Alive and perhaps the return of a single Chrome Mox to improve your chance of hitting the mana you need to combo with Ooze off your Griselbrand draws. I'm definitely putting Buried Alive back in but not Chrome Mox at this stage. I'll test one at a time.
    • Without Probe, Mentor seems less good, and the "answer the answers" plan from the sideboard seem better.
    • With the printing of Silent Gravestone the G splash for Ground Seal does not appear necessary and the deck can return to straight UB. Pin has already led the way with this, it appears. Abrupt Decay is a sore loss, but with Wasteland becoming more of a player in the format now that the mana-fixing menace DRS is gone, the more resilient a combo deck can make its mana the better. I liked the Green splash and had little trouble managing my mana, and I'll miss the Seal's card draw and Decay's uncounterability, but if the best thing to do is streamline, then Gravestone is far superior.
    • I don't know how many Gravestones are optimal. I would say at least three, and will start there, but possiby four is correct. In the back of my mind I'm doubtful I'd ever want to board four of them in, though.
    • Gravestone doubles as effective hate for Reanimator strategies (they need to hit Exhume if Gravestone is in play because their other reanimation--Reanimate and Animate Dead--target) so Surgical Extraction can probably be removed. Although Gravestone is good against Dredge once you have access to four mana, I'm still confident in Oozing's ability to race.
    • If you play two Exhume in the maindeck you don't need any in the sideboard. You can just board in three or four Gravestones and take out two Reanimates, along with whatever else you're planning on doing.


    To that end, I've come up with the following:

    2 Swamp
    1 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual

    3 Necrotic Ooze
    1 Triskelion
    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Griselbrand

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Collective Brutality

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Reanimate
    2 Exhume

    4 Entomb
    3 Buried Alive

    Sideboard

    3 Silent Gravestone
    3 Echoing Truth
    2 Massacre
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Collective Brutality
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Necrotic Ooze
    1 Flusterstorm

    Pin, I like your Ancient Tomb and Urborg idea so I'm going to try it. Ancient Tomb makes a Turn 1 Buried Alive Turn 2 Reanimate/Exhume play easier, which fits in with the "go faster" plan now that you don't have to either win T1 or slow down to play around the T1 DRS. I also like your Iona in the sideboard because there are a lot of mono-coloured decks getting around my meta: Burn, Elves, Death & Taxes, The Gate, and OmniTell. I'm not sure about the Swan Song maindeck but I suspect they are there to deal with Counterbalance G1 because you expected a fair few Miracles players? They would be better in the list you posted than a list with Reanimate because the 2/2 from the Song getting you low would be less of an issue. Since your last post, have you any new thoughts? Would love to hear from you.

  6. #546
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    I gave Oozing a crack at the local tournament today as intended. This is what I sleeved up:

    2 Swamp
    1 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual

    3 Necrotic Ooze
    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion
    2 Griselbrand

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Reanimate
    2 Exhume

    4 Entomb
    2 Buried Alive

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Collective Brutality

    Sideboard

    4 Silent Gravestone
    3 Echoing Truth
    2 Massacre
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Necrotic Ooze
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Collective Brutality

    I couldn't find a third Buried Alive or else I would have tried to fit it in the maindeck, but I'm not sure what I would have cut. Maybe the eighth reanimation spell? As I posted previously, I was unsure about the number of Silent Gravestones that would be good so I put in the playset in to start with. Iona was for the monocoloured decks around (Burn, Omnitell, Elves), Brutality, Massacre, and Dread of Night were for Death & Taxes, Pierce was for U decks, and the Echoing Truth was a catch-all.

    R1 v BR Reanimator. Loss 1-2

    G1 we tear each other's hands apart with discard and we both start trying to draw some action. I'm drawing nothing but Entombs and lands with no reanimation in sight. I have just drawn my third Entomb (!) when my opponent Entombs for a Griselbrand and casts Exhume. I can triple Entomb for the combo and kill him using his own Exhume. That's a first!

    G2 He has an excellent hand and mine is sub-par. I have some interaction through Thoughtseize and Collective Brutality but my cantrips are not finding me the missing pieces of my combo and he manages to get Griselbrand on the battlefield and keep in there, and I can't recover. I didn't see Gravestone.

    G3 He has another excellent hand and I have to take a Faithless Looting out of a hand of Iona, Animate Dead, and Reanimate. Again I'm not drawing any gas and again he gets the Griselbrand in play and starts drawing degenerate amounts of cards. Again, I didn't see gravestone.

    R2 v Esper Stoneblade. Loss 1-2.

    G1 I start well, using Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy to take his counterspells (Therapy nabs two Force of Will!) and Collective Brutality to take more plus kill his Stoneforge Mystic that has just fetched a Batterskull, leaving him with just two lands in hand. Unfortunately, I'm not drawing into any action and he draws Brainstorm, Brainstorm, Snapcaster Mage, True-Name Nemesis. I brick and die.

    G2 I accumulate mana while he holds up three mana, not playing anything. I have a Necrotic Ooze I want to hardcast, so I check to see that he has no Swords to Plowshares with a Thoughtseize, taking Dark Confidant, and getting rid of a Spell Pierce with Cabal Therapy. He casts a Sword of Light and Shadow. I resolve a Necrotic Ooze a turn or so later and he casts a Snapcaster Mage in my end step, untaps, and equips the Sword to it. Great, I think, now I can't swing with Ooze... no, he's swinging! I swing back the next turn and Entomb. He's drawn a Force of Will for it but I've drawn a second one just that turn. I could have used the full combo but if I knew if I used the attack phase and Devourer I could afford to lose an Entomb to a counterspell and defend the second one with Spell Pierce, so that's the line I chose. He Brainstorms in response but it's his last mana and I know he only has a Jace, the Mind Sculptor and a dead card in hand so I Spell Pierce it to prevent him from possibly finding a Force of Will. He's quite put out, as most people are when they're killed this way the first time.

    G3 I attempt to interact but he has a bucketload of permission, which he uses to protect his hand, containing a T3 Dark Confidant. Again, I'm drawing and cantripping terribly and the card advantage from Bob runs me over. I play for the draw on Turn 4 of extra turns, attempting to Brutality his Dark Confidant leaving him one damage short of killing me on Turn 5, but he has double Pierce Flusterstorm and I don't have enough mana to pay for all that (I could pay for Pierce Fluster but the second Pierce was too much).

    R3 v Ur OmniShow. Win 2-1.

    I built and lent the deck so I know the entire 75. G1 I do the usual thing, tearing his Show and Tells and countermagic out of his hand and then resolving the combo. G2 is a lot more grindy; he has an excellent hand and I have to sacrifice value by using Lotus Petal a double Show and Tell hand that would have otherwise killed me. Thus both low on resources, we play the draw-go, and he eventually draws into enough land to cast Omniscience! He cantrips three times and his shuffled draw of the final ponder in his hand finds Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, which kills me from 13 life in the extra turn, with me having lethal on board from a hardcast Ooze a couple of turns ago. G3 I open lots of discard to fight through a Force, Flusterstorm, Flusterstorm hand, which also contains the combo. I leave him with Show and Tell and take all of his usable countermagic instead because I can kill him with Buried Alive into Shallow Grave on Turn 3 after dealing with his permission.

    R4 v Death & Taxes. Win 2-1.

    G1 is fairly routine. He doesn't have Thalia and I Shallow Grave a hasty Griselbrand while he's tapped out and kill him with Ooze in his next upkeep using the clean-up to discard the combo pieces. G2 he mulls to five. He has a cracker and I have a total dud. I manage to Massacre away a Ethersworn Canonist and a Remorseful Cleric but he topdecks a second Canonist into Recruiter into Containment Priest. Some good runner-runner rips there! I of course can't combo with the Canonist on the board and don't find an answer before I die. G3 he mulls to five again, but I have an average hand again, although I do have a Massacre. I Massacre away his first board, getting myself a three-for-one, and set up a turn where I can Entomb and Shallow Grave Griselbrand with a second Shallow Grave as a backup and a mana left over. It's just as well I did, because he has a Recruiter off an Aether Vial with three counters into Containment Priest, which he casts. I use my second Shallow Grave over the top to get the Griselbrand on the board, draw 14 cards, hit my second Massacre, Massacre his board away again, Thoughtseize myself for Necrotic Ooze, Shallow Grave Ooze, swing, and Entomb Devourer for the win. He shows me a Swords to Plowshares in hand that he shut himself off from by using Rishadan Port on me in my upkeep. I wouldn't have made the Ooze attack play if he had W open anyway, but I definitely wouldn't have been able to kill him that turn and would have had to take another. But fortunately he was tapped out and I could get there in one turn. Phew!

    R5 v RUG Delver (or Canadian Threshold to those of you who are old like me!). Win 2-1.

    G1 he has a quick Delver of Secrets which he immediately flips, followed by a 3/4 Tarmogoyf. I, however, manage to put together a hand that can Exhume a Griselbrand, which is almost unbeatable for Canadian outside blocking Griselbrand with Delver then burning it to death (I've seen triple Bolt happen but only once). I clear out a Force with Thoughtseize and get big daddy Griz into play. He declines to swing into it, so I untap and clear out the Lightning Bolt I saw with the Thoughtseize with my Cabal Therapy, which means that his remaining Forked Bolt won't do the job. Three swings and it's over. It's so much easier playing against decks that don't run White! G2 I mull to four, but what a four: Underground Sea, Dark Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave! I can't find any hand disruption, though, and am forced to pull the trigger on the combo far earlier than I'd like because of a blind-flipped Delver. He has the Surgical Extraction for my Griselbrand and it's on to Game 3. In the last game, I open a very decent hand which I manage to cantrip into plenty of mana - Dark Ritual, lands, fetches, two Petals, and an Ancient Tomb - to play around his soft permission, a Silent Gravestone (the first time I see it today!), an Entomb, a Shallow Grave, and a Spell Pierce. He hasn't drawn any stifles so I manage to get my fetchland activations to resolve, giving me all the mana I need for my combo turn. I resolve Dark Ritual, Silent Gravestone using Ancient Tomb mana, then Entomb, which he attempts to counter with Force of Will but which I Spell Pierce. I can Shallow Grave with a couple of lands and Petals available and B floating, meaning that any Daze/Pierce/Flusterstorm in hand is useless. I get my hasty Griseldaddy, but unfortunately I'm facing down an unflipped Delver, a Nimble Mongoose on the cusp of threshold, and a 4/5 Goyf. I draw seven, swing, draw seven more and hit Entomb, Entomb for Cabal Therapy, Therapy him, flash back Therapy on him sacrificing Griselbrand,and Exhume Griselbrand to bring the big boy back permanently. He doesn't flip his Delver and I then get to triple Ponder into Shallow Grave on Iona, Shield of Emeria and swing for 14, which is lethal.

    So I fought back from 0-2 down to get to a winning record of 3-2, which was nice. Reanimator is always a tight matchup, I didn't see Gravestones either G2 or G3, and he drew much stronger hands than I did. The G1 loss to Esper Stoneblade was unfortunate, as you're usually massively favoured in G1 in that matchup, and it really put me under pressure in G3 with the Dark Confidant matching up way too well with my slightly too slow hand. But I was happy beating RUG Delver, which I've found to be quite a difficult matchup, and which I haven't played against in a while, and was glad to get the expected wins against Death & Taxes and Omnitell. Most of all, I had a great time playing the deck again!

    Maindeck, the lines are more difficult and convoluted not having Putrid Imp. You can't just Buried Alive and win if you have a combo piece in hand, and this definitely force you to use the clean-up step a lot more to clear pieces out of your hand. I never minded drawing Putrid Imp because you could cast it and then use it to discard combo pieces to flash back Cabal Therapy. Now, though, with Therapy down to two that interaction happens less, and Collective Brutality has much more utility, particularly its ability to be both hand disruption and kill a pesky creature while discarding a reanimation target.

    Post-board, I wanted the full four Silent Gravestones against Reanimator (although I didn't see any) but in other matchups I only boarded into two (RUG, D&T, and Omni) or three (Stoneblade), so I feel like I should cut it to three. I didn't really feel that the single Ooze in the sideboard made much of a difference so I think I would cut it next time. I think the deck needs three Echoing Truth against decks that concentrate on non-Surgical Extraction graveyard hate like Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus, and Tormod's Crypt, so I would leave them as is. Spell Pierce was very good for me today, and it would stay as a two-of. It was totally unexpected by all opponents I played it against. But would Flusterstorm just be better? It's more powerful, but I'm concerned it doesn't hit things like Counterbalance, artifact graveyard hate, and Animate Dead. On balance, I like Pierce more. Thoughts?

    I feel collective Brutality is important against Death & Taxes and would keep the one in the board. Massacre was excellent against D&T as always, and is definitely at least a two-of card. I didn't use Dread of Night and am worried that it doesn't kill either Containment Priest or Ethersworn Canonist, both of which are two toughness. Could a third Massacre replace the Dread of Night? In my meta, it would not be overkill: there is a ton of D&T and Maverick, and more people are building them every month.

    I just don't know about Iona. The only time I used her was when I Shallow Grave'd her to kill my RUG Delver opponent. I brought her in against RUG to name Green and shut off two thirds of their threats, but in hindsight I'm not sure whether that was correct. I also brought her in against OmniTell and had her in hand in G2 to put in off a Show and Tell, but he ended up casting Omniscience. Finally, I brought her in against Death & Taxes, but took her out again in G3. What is all means is that I'm unsure when I should use her and would appreciate some help.

  7. #547
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    I've been thinking this morning about changes to the deck based on yesterday's experience. This is what I've come up with:

    Maindeck (60)

    2 Swamp
    1 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual

    3 Necrotic Ooze
    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion
    1 Griselbrand

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Entomb
    3 Buried Alive

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Reanimate
    2 Exhume

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Collective Brutality

    Sideboard (15)

    4 Silent Gravestone
    3 Echoing Truth
    3 Massacre
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    2 ???

    I definitely want the third Buried Alive in the deck. I've decided to cut the second Griselbrand for it. It's rare we want more than one Griselbrand but we almost always want to see Buried Alive in G1.

    I am undecided on two slots in the sideboard, hence the question marks. Help!

    I’ve been thinking about sideboarding against some of the decks I faced in the last tournament and that hang around my meta. I’ve come to some decisions but am having a great deal of trouble with others:

    Death & Taxes: +3 Massacre +2 Echoing Truth -1 Reanimate -1 Exhume -1 Necrotic Ooze -1 Buried Alive -1 ???

    Miracles: +3 Echoing Truth +2 Spell Pierce -1 Island -1 Necrotic Ooze -1 Buried Alive -1 Entomb -1 Reanimate

    BR Reanimator: +4 Silent Gravestone -1 Island -2 Reanimate -1 Buried Alive

    RUG Delver: +2 Silent Gravestone +2 Spell Pierce -1 Necrotic Ooze -2 Reanimate -1 Buried Alive. If you see Grafdigger’s Cage how would you sideboard?

    OmniTell: +1 Iona, Shield of Emeria -1 Island. If you see Grafdigger’s Cage how would you sideboard? Is it worth sideboarding Silent Gravestone for the single Surgical Extraction off Cunning Wish?

    Sneak ‘n Show: +2 Echoing Truth -1 Island -1 Buried Alive.

    Infect: ??? I don't know if you would bring in Iona because they have Crop Rotation for Karakas or just naturally draw it.

    Esper StoneBlade: ??? There are so many things they could bring in against you. Generally, I would think you bring in some number of Silent Gravestone every time because if they’re on Snapcaster Mage they’re almost certainly on Surgical Extraction. But they could also be bringing in Rest in Peace, Grafdigger’s Cage, Containment Priest, and Ethersworn Canonist. If they’re bringing in creature-based hate, Massacre is actually amazing, because it kills Stoneforge Mystic and True-Name Nemesis as well. -1 Island if they’re not on Wasteland.

    Grixis Control: ??? As with Esper StoneBlade, some number of Silent Gravestone plus answers for any other hate you see G2? -1 Island if they’re not on Wasteland.
    Bant StoneBlade: ??? As with Esper StoneBlade and Grixis Control? -1 Island if they’re not on Wasteland.

    Burn: +3 Silent Gravestone +1 Iona, Shield of Emeria -1 Island -1 Necrotic Ooze -2 Reanimate.

    I'm going to try going down to 14 lands against non-Wasteland decks. I've played with 14 lands before and it's not bad if your mana isn't being destroyed. The more I look at Silent Gravestone sideboard plans the more I want a third Exhume in the sideboard. Thoughts?

  8. #548
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Sorry for my english
    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post

    A few thoughts now that DRS is gone (some obvious and some less so):

    • There will be almost no graveyard hate in G1s.
    Now its more easy .
    • Because of this, Reanimate seems better than Exhume because it costs one less mana.
    Silent Gravestone ... im playing 4 exhume .
    • Also because of this, Collective Brutality seems better, because you're not at risk of getting the creature you discard eaten by DRS.
    +1000
    • Collective Brutality also appears to have put to bed the Putrid Imp or no Putrid Imp debate. I think now with two or more Brutality in the deck, Putrid Imp can be safely dropped (I know Pin has been playing without it with success for some time).
    Putrid Imp its a very bad card, i dont like draw bad cards .
    • Probe is gone, and should probably be replaced with some number of counterspells or hand disruption, such as Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Thoughtseize, or Duress.
    -4 probe +4 ponder
    • With DRS gone I don't know if we need two Griselbrand, because, at least in G1, it's almost certainly not going to get exiled out of the graveyard before you can Reanimate it. I'm going to start with one.
    I losed a lot of games because i had Griselbrand in hand i couldnt search it with entomb. I prefer play in G1 ever.
    • People still often neglect to block Ooze, which makes the Entomb into Devourer kill after no blocks are declared a great play. I think Ooze should stay as a three-of in the maindeck.
    2-3 its the number, i will test 2 and 1 Borborygmos Enraged .
    • Cabal Therapy is less good now that Gitaxian Probe is banned, but should probably still be in the list somewhere because flashing it back sacrificing a Shallow Grave'd Griselbrand is still a useful play in many situations. Perhaps two is a good number?
    Maybe 2?
    • Buried Alive was dropped because it is sorcery speed and was a difficult card to profitably use in a DRS-infested meta. Now DRS is gone it should probably come back in some number: most likely three like it was previously.
    Never played Mentor's sb manplan , ever played 3, and will continue it .
    • Not having to play around DRS G1 means the deck can attempt to go faster, further supporting the re-inclusion of Buried Alive and perhaps the return of a single Chrome Mox to improve your chance of hitting the mana you need to combo with Ooze off your Griselbrand draws. I'm definitely putting Buried Alive back in but not Chrome Mox at this stage. I'll test one at a time.
    I hate Chrome Mox xDDD .
    • Without Probe, Mentor seems less good, and the "answer the answers" plan from the sideboard seem better.
    I need change the sb, in my lattest list played 2x Grave titan , but im testing new tech card : 2-3 Bloodgift Demon
    • With the printing of Silent Gravestone the G splash for Ground Seal does not appear necessary and the deck can return to straight UB. Pin has already led the way with this, it appears. Abrupt Decay is a sore loss, but with Wasteland becoming more of a player in the format now that the mana-fixing menace DRS is gone, the more resilient a combo deck can make its mana the better. I liked the Green splash and had little trouble managing my mana, and I'll miss the Seal's card draw and Decay's uncounterability, but if the best thing to do is streamline, then Gravestone is far superior.
    Silent Gravestone was a really nice gift, i didnt miss green sb, i lost games for fecht to Bayou and eat and wasteland .
    • I don't know how many Gravestones are optimal. I would say at least three, and will start there, but possiby four is correct. In the back of my mind I'm doubtful I'd ever want to board four of them in, though.
    3-4 .Im in 4.
    • Gravestone doubles as effective hate for Reanimator strategies (they need to hit Exhume if Gravestone is in play because their other reanimation--Reanimate and Animate Dead--target) so Surgical Extraction can probably be removed. Although Gravestone is good against Dredge once you have access to four mana, I'm still confident in Oozing's ability to race.
    Only played 1 macht vs Br and my counters wins the game . I didnt sb Silent Gravestone , but maybe and option . +2 spell pierce +1 Iona +2-3 Echoing Truth for enemy's Iona .
    • If you play two Exhume in the maindeck you don't need any in the sideboard. You can just board in three or four Gravestones and take out two Reanimates, along with whatever else you're planning on doing.
    Only 2 exhume and 4 shallow grave its enought ? i sac reanimate ... i won 1 macht vs Stell balls with chalice @1 both games and win with exhume ^^ .

    Pin, I like your Ancient Tomb and Urborg idea so I'm going to try it. Ancient Tomb makes a Turn 1 Buried Alive Turn 2 Reanimate/Exhume play easier, which fits in with the "go faster" plan now that you don't have to either win T1 or slow down to play around the T1 DRS. I also like your Iona in the sideboard because there are a lot of mono-coloured decks getting around my meta: Burn, Elves, Death & Taxes, The Gate, and OmniTell. I'm not sure about the Swan Song maindeck but I suspect they are there to deal with Counterbalance G1 because you expected a fair few Miracles players? They would be better in the list you posted than a list with Reanimate because the 2/2 from the Song getting you low would be less of an issue. Since your last post, have you any new thoughts? Would love to hear from you.
    Im playing Swan Song maindeck , because in my meta there are a lot of Miracle and S&S players. 2 hard counters was very nice . Do you like Ancient tomb and Urbog idea ?
    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    This is what I sleeved up:

    2 Swamp
    1 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual

    3 Necrotic Ooze
    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion
    2 Griselbrand

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Reanimate
    2 Exhume

    4 Entomb
    2 Buried Alive

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Collective Brutality

    Sideboard

    4 Silent Gravestone
    3 Echoing Truth
    2 Massacre
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Necrotic Ooze
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Collective Brutality

    Seems you have a lot of problemas with the sideboard changes . I sb very diferent .


    Post-board, I wanted the full four Silent Gravestones against Reanimator (although I didn't see any) but in other matchups I only boarded into two (RUG, D&T, and Omni) or three (Stoneblade), so I feel like I should cut it to three. I didn't really feel that the single Ooze in the sideboard made much of a difference so I think I would cut it next time. I think the deck needs three Echoing Truth against decks that concentrate on non-Surgical Extraction graveyard hate like Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus, and Tormod's Crypt, so I would leave them as is. Spell Pierce was very good for me today, and it would stay as a two-of. It was totally unexpected by all opponents I played it against. But would Flusterstorm just be better? It's more powerful, but I'm concerned it doesn't hit things like Counterbalance, artifact graveyard hate, and Animate Dead. On balance, I like Pierce more. Thoughts?

    I feel collective Brutality is important against Death & Taxes and would keep the one in the board. Massacre was excellent against D&T as always, and is definitely at least a two-of card. I didn't use Dread of Night and am worried that it doesn't kill either Containment Priest or Ethersworn Canonist, both of which are two toughness. Could a third Massacre replace the Dread of Night? In my meta, it would not be overkill: there is a ton of D&T and Maverick, and more people are building them every month.

    collective Brutality its and MVP tool for the deck . Maybe i will cut the sb collective Brutality card, but in maindeck i cant . Resolves a lot of problems.


    I just don't know about Iona. The only time I used her was when I Shallow Grave'd her to kill my RUG Delver opponent. I brought her in against RUG to name Green and shut off two thirds of their threats, but in hindsight I'm not sure whether that was correct. I also brought her in against OmniTell and had her in hand in G2 to put in off a Show and Tell, but he ended up casting Omniscience. Finally, I brought her in against Death & Taxes, but took her out again in G3. What is all means is that I'm unsure when I should use her and would appreciate some help.

    Why you sb Iona vs Canadian ? Whit my lattest sb i will do :
    1-2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
    1 Collective Brutality maybe
    2 Grave Titan
    4 Silent Gravestone
    In 1 o 2 days i will quote your last post with my new list, and sb changes . And we can discust about how sb plan vs tiers .

    Continue OOZING !!!

  9. #549
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    4-0 at the local tonight with the list I posted in my last post.

    R1 v Miracles. Won 2-1.

    Game 1 I use discard to clear a Force and go for it but he Brainstorms into another one. He doesn't hit much else, though, so I refill and force the combo through on my second attempt. G2 he has a T3 Rest in Peace with Flusterstorm backing it up by countering my attempted Spell Pierce. He resolves jace. I cast Ooze into it and he bounces Ooze. This happens twice, but then he brainstorms with Jace and passes back to me with three cards in hand and mana open. I want to kill Jace with Ooze, and identify that Swords to Plowshares or Snapcaster Mage will stop me. I have Cabal Therapy and Collective Brutality in hand, so I can't stop Swords (he casts it in response to either Therapy or Brutality) but I can stop Snapcaster Mage (I cast Therapy first and if he flashes it in I can kill it with Brutality and swing through with Ooze to kill Jace). So I Cabal Therapy him, intending to name Snapcaster Mage if it resolves. I hit two, one of which he was going to flash in to block my Ooze from killing his Jace. Nice! He has one card in hand, which is a land, and when I kill his Jace I'm suddenly riding a three turn clock finish with him having to draw disruption off the top of his deck. He uses a fetchland to refresh the top of his deck and rips a Swords to Plowshares for my Ooze. Damn, nice draw. It's pretty much downhill from there because he draws into cantrips ever turn and casts another Jace and by the time I get to mana to cast Griselbrand he has the Jace on 11 counters. G3 he draws a lot of lands and a few counterspells but no pressure, so I take what permission he does have with Thoughtseizes and a Cabal Therapy over the course of two turns and kill him. He had Force Flusterstorm no other blue card and I have Thoughtseize Therapy Entomb Shallow Grave Swan Song, so I used Thoughtseize on Flusterstorm and cast Entomb in my main phase while he had only four mana and no way to pay the alternative cost, knowing that if he draws RiP I can counter it with Swan Song and he can't Force back. Then next turn I therapy Force and Shallow Grave.

    R2 RG Lands. Won 2-1.

    I lose G1 to Wasteland recursion, only drawing the land I need one turn late. (I think I misplayed here. I fetched into an Underground Sea to cast Ponder on Turn 1 when I could have held the fetchland for a basic Swamp. Against Lands G1 I think it might be correct to place your faith in the top of your deck to produce the combo rather than another Wasteland-immune land (i.e. basic or fetchland). Next time I would hold the fetchland even if it meant not playing the Ponder. Black mana is too important.) G2 he goes hard with double Crop Rotation for the combo. I figure he probably doesn't have a third in hand and go hard myself, killing him a turn before he can kill me. G3 he has a bunch of lands in play including a Mishra's Factory and a Ramanup Excavator, but nothing in hand. I get a Griselbrand and draw 14 cards but have to take another turn to combo, so I dump Phyrexian Devourer into the graveyard intending to case Buried Alive and Necrotic Ooze the next turn (I didn't draw any Entombs). He rips Gamble into Bojuka Bog and plays it from his graveyard using his Excavator. Yuck, now I'm stuck killing him from 19 with the three remaining creatures in my deck: two Necrotic Ooze and a Triskelion. Fortunately I've found both Necrotic Ooze off Griselbrand draws and can cast them with the help of a Ponder'd Dark Ritual. I then topdeck Triskelion, which I can cast to kill the Excavator so he can't recur Mishra's Factory as a blocker forever. I start attacking with Ooze and then eventually use the Shallow Grave on the Triskelion to clear the Factory to get through lethal while I was sitting at a precarious two life. Phew! (I made a mistake here. I should have kept Phyrexian Devourer in hand and used discard the next turn to pitch it from my hand. I had the mana to do it but I missed the line. I made this game way harder than it should have been for myself. After Griselbrand I could have kept a hand with Necrotic Ooze, Phyrexian Devourer, and Buried Alive, with a Dark Ritual and Lotus Petal that would have allowed me to make nine mana the following turn, then a Cabal Therapy to discard Devourer and Thoughtseize to check for a top-deck Crop Rotation. Then nothing he could draw off the top of his deck could have been lethal or effective disruption.)

    R3 Shardless Bug. Won 2-1.

    G1 he has T2 Goyf into T3 Liliana of the Veil with FoW and Leovold in hand. Fortunately I have T1 Therapy that goes uncountered and names that Force of Will into T2 Exhume a Griselbrand and draw 14 cards. Although he casts his Lili on his next turn to make me sacrifice the Griselbrand, he is forced to tap out to do it, I can easily combo next turn with a discard spell to check for another Force of Will for good measure. T2 he has triple Thoughtseize double Surgical Force of Will plus threats on curve and I don't have a chance. G3 I Therapy Surgical on Turn 1 and miss, seeing a hand with a Baleful Strix, Diabolic Edict, and no other interaction. He hasn't drawn any by the time I Shallow Grave my Griselbrand on Turn 3, draw 21, and win.

    R4 v Grixis Control. Won 2-0.

    G1 I cast Ponder on Turn 1 into Thoughtseize on Turn 2 seeing a hand with no counterspells but that has Hymn to Tourach, Kolaghan's Command, Diabolic Edict, Baleful Strix, and Fatal Push. I take a Hymn to Tourach and Shallow Grave a Griselbrand on the same turn. My first two draws are absolute rubbish - I don't hit a Lotus Petal so I can't cast any more spells, and I haven't hit any part of the combo - so I have to draw down to 2 life. The third seven is better, giving me the combo the next turn. But I have to pass the turn, giving him an out to draw Lightning Bolt. He doesn't and I kill him in my next turn. G2 he has T1 Thoughtseize for my Silent Gravestone, T2 Duress for my Buried Alive, and T3 Snapcaster Duress, so my hand is getting shredded. But I manage to Brainstorm in response to the second Duress, hiding an Entomb and Buried Alive and showing only a Necrotic Ooze in hand, which he can't take with his Duress and which I cast on my next turn, Turn 4. I figure that with this much disruption and him taking the Silent Gravestone on T1 he has Surgical Extraction in hand, and perhaps counterspells, but probably not any removal. He doesn't have removal, or at least declines to use it, so I untap on Turn 5 and cast the second Buried Alive, which I hid on top with Brainstorm, for the win. He was sitting on double Flusterstorm Surgical but only had one U mana, which meant he could only cast one Flusterstorm, and he made a mistake counting my mana so he didn't end up casting it at all. Even if it got countered I had an Entomb for the attacking Ooze into Entomb Devourer kill if he didn't block with Snapcaster (they usually don't), so it was possibly a moot point.

    Pin_Vlc, your English is good, no need to apologise. Thank you for your thoughts on my post. I replaced Gitaxian Probe with Thoughtseize because I was already playing four Ponder. I like playing some Reanimate G1 because it's one mana less than Exhume and sometimes that matters. If I sideboard in Silent Gravestone I will sideboard out two Reanimate, leaving me with four Shallow Grave and two Exhume. It is usually enough, becauase you also have hardcast Ooze. I haven't yet had my single Griselbrand stuck in my hand in G1 since I picked up the deck again but I remember being frustrated by it in the past so I don't mind the idea of going back up to two Griselbrand. Also, it makes getting 20 damage with Ooze much easier! I disagree that Putrid Imp is a bad card, but Collective Brutality is definitely better in this deck. Two Brutality in the main is excellent. Two Cabal Therapy has been good. Silent Gravestone is incredible against Reanimator because they usually board out their Exhumes against you because they don't want to give you free reanimation.

    I don't know why I sideboarded Iona against RUG, it was silly, and I wouldn't do it again. When do you bring in Grave Titan? Also, why do you play Bontu's Reckoning and not Massacre? Massacre costs less and does exactly what you want it to against creatures: kills 2/2 hatebears like Canonist and Containment Priest. THe only thing it's bad against is Gaddock Teeg but I haven't seen one of those in Legacy for ages. Could you tell me more about what matchups you might use Bontu's Reckoning for?
    Last edited by pandaman; 07-31-2018 at 10:39 PM.

  10. #550
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    3-1 at the local last night. I couldn't find my Buried Alives again and no one had any to lend me, so I took the Mentor sideboard out for a drive.

    3 Necrotic Ooze
    2 Griselbrand
    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Preordain
    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Exhume
    2 Reanimate
    4 Entomb
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Collective Brutality
    1 Swamp
    1 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Marsh Flats
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal

    Sideboard (15)

    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Echoing Truth
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction

    I replaced the Buried Alives with two Preordains and a second Griselbrand. The sideboard is pretty standard for a Mentor transformation, I gather from reading this thread and the discussion in the Tin Fins thread.

    R1 v Dragon Stompy. Loss 1-2.

    G1 I'm on the draw and keep a seven with a T1 hasty Griselbrand and some protection. He plays Crystal Vein and passes. I put him on some sort of Chalice prison deck and decide to go for it on T1. I draw loads of cards of Griselbrand and can discard the combo in cleanup and win in his upkeep.

    G2 I sideboard into the Mentor plan. (I haven't played the Mentor plan much or recently so I'm not 100% sure on what decks I should be using it against. I believe it was a mistake to use it against Dragon Stompy. In hindsight, I think this matchup hinges on you having an Echoing Truth for the key hate piece as soon as possible and then trying to combo.) I'm on the draw again. He has a T1 Trinisphere, T2 Magus of the Moon. I can't cast Mentor now, and I'm just dead.

    G3 I sideboard back into the combo and bring in the three Echoing Truths. I open a hand of Thoughtseize, Thoughtseize, Shallow Grave, Brainstorm, Ponder, Scrubland, and Polluted Delta. That's pretty good: T1 and T2 discard for relevant hate pieces and then cantrips to find the missing part of the combo. The only problem is mana: I can't fetch basic swamp for Thoughseize because I need to fetch U to cantrip. I'm therefore forced to lead with Scrubland, Thoughtseize. I see Hazoret, Magus of the Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Simian Spirit Guide, and three sol lands. If I take Simian Spirit Guide he's probably 17/53 to draw another R source (10 Mountains, 3 SSGs, and 4 Chrome Mox) to cast the Magus, while if I take Magus he's max 7/53 to draw another Moon effect (could be 3 Magus but probably only two, and 4 Blood Moon). If he draws Chalice I can't do anything about it, but if he draws Trininsphere I'll be able to take it on T2 with my second Thoughtseize. So after thinking about all this, I take Magus of the Moon and pass. He draws and casts the Blood Moon he drew that turn. I proceed to not draw into my Island, Swamp, or enough Lotus Petals and die.

    What do you think of my reasoning on my Thoughtseize target? I think it was solid, but would love some other opinions.

    R2 v BUG Midrange. Win 2-0.

    G1 He is on the play but is jammed on mana and I get to take relevant things out of his hand with discard (Hymn to Tourach and Scavenging Ooze) and combo him easily.

    G2 I sideboard into the Mentor play. I think the best decks to use it against are grindy U decks, so I thought this was the perfect time. I'm on the draw and open a hand with two cantrips, two Mentors, and a Swords to Plowshares. He isn't doing much and that gives me the opportunity to cantrip a bit for lands so I can cast Mentor and have a few spells in the same turn. I manage to see his hand and he has Force of Will (no blue card), double Surgical Extraction, and Diabolic Edict. I take the Edict, then the Force, and resolve my Mentor. He draws and casts Vapor Snag on it but I play it down again, and then the second Mentor. He gets a Scavenging Ooze but there aren't any creatures in the graveyard to make it bigger, so I can swing past it with one spell per turn. Except I brick on spells for a turn, but then draw a Dark Ritual to cast Griselbrand from my hand. He scoops.

    R3 v The Gate. Win 2-1.

    G1 I'm on the play, mull to six, and keep a disruptive hand. I Thoughtseize a Duress, seeing a hand of Gatekeeper of Malakir, Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom, and three lands. I continue to tear his hand apart, taking his Dark Confidant and then killing another one he drew with a Collective Brutality. The only thing he's able to resolve is Bitterblossom, and he starts making faerie tokens. I get a hasty Grisebrand but he blocks it so I don't get any damage in, and I can't find the combo, forcing me to Exhume my Griselbrand after sacrificing it to Cabal Therapy, Reanimate Ooze going to two life and discard down leaving a bunch of cantrips and an Entomb in hand, planning to cantrip into another Entomb the next turn. He swings me to one with his token and casts a Dark Confidant. I swing in with Griselbrand and Ooze. He double blocks Ooze with a faerie and Bob, so I Entomb Devourer and pump it to save it. I draw seven of Griselbrand and STILL don't find the Entomb, and it takes me another three cantrips that turn to finally get it and kill him.

    G2 I sideboard into the Mentor plan. (Again, what do you all think? Should I have stayed on the combo?). I'm on the draw. His T1 Cabal Therapy misses. My T1 Thoughtseize sees Dread of Night, Gatekeeper of Malakir, another Cabal Therapy, and Dark Confidant, plus a swamp and something I can't remember, but it wasn't a land. I take Dread of Night because I have a Mentor in hand I want to play. He draws a land and casts Dark Confidant. I kill it with Collective Brutality and escalate it to take his Cabal Therapy. He draws Wasteland for my Tundra so I can't play Mentor, and by the time I find another W source he has three mana and has cast Liliana of the Veil. I can't cast Mentor and a spell in the same turn because I can only keep one card in hand thanks to Liliana. I lose after he eventually casts a threat.

    G3 I sideboard out the Mentor plan because of Dread of Night and bring in Echoing Truths. I'm on the play. T1 THoughtseize sees Dismember, Bob, Gatekeeper, Therapy, and two swamps. I take the Therapy and then on T2 use a Thoughtseize to take Dismember and get a hasty Griselbrand in play. We end up in turns but work out that I'm going to win with another Shallow Grave off a Ponder and he kindly concedes to me so one of us still has the chance to make 3-1. I tell him I'll split the store credit with him after he's agreed to concede, as a thank you.

    R4 v RUG HollowVine. Win 2-1.

    G1 he's on the play and casts T1 Flameblade Adept and on T2 cycles two Street Wraiths, casts Careful Study, attacks me for 5, and casts two Hollow Ones. After the Hollow Ones come down I know I need to go for it or else I'll probably be dead next turn, so I end-of-turn Entomb a Griselbrand and then casts Shallow Grave on it in my next turn, checking with a Cabal Therapy for Force of Will and seeing three lands. I draw 21 cards and win.

    G2 I don't go into the Mentor plan as I think he is too fast, and just bring in the Echoing Truths. I'm on the draw and eventually manipulate a board where he's tapped out and has no blockers and I can Shallow Grave a Necrotic Ooze and then Entomb Devourer for lethal. Unfortunately the flaw in this plan is that it can't beat double Flusterstorm, which is what he has in hand. I die.

    G3 I'm on the play and start cantripping. He's not playing much and Flusterstorms a discard spell, leading me to believe that he has a lot of hate. I eventually assemble a hand of Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Shallow Grave, Reanimate, Entomb, Thoughtseize, and Surgical Extraction, with two lands and a Lotus Petal on the battlefield. I Thoughtseize, seeing Faerie Macabre, Stubborn Denial, and Flusterstorm. I take Flusterstorm, double Ritual, Entomb Griselbrand, and cast Reanimate on it. He responds with Faerie and I response to that with Shallow Grave with enough mana to play around his Stubborn Denial (he doesn't have a creature on the battlefield). I draw 21 cards again and win.

    I don't know how I feel about the Mentor plan without Probe and Top. The Preordains were good, but being in White, as opposed to being straight UB, cost me against Dragon Stompy. The mis-board in G2 cost me, too, but I feel the matchup gets better when you don't have Tundra and Taiga hanging around in your deck because you get to play more fetchlands and prioritise basic lands. I think I prefer having the Buried Alive in G1, to make the combo easier to achieve, and the answers from the sideboard. I'll go back to that next week if I can lay my hands on any Buried Alives, which I hope to do this weekend.

    Is anyone else playing the deck again?

  11. #551

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    Is anyone else playing the deck again?
    In the last couple of months I have bought
    2 Griselbrand
    1 Shallow Grave
    1 Ooze
    1 Triskelion
    4 Entomb
    1 Devourer
    4 Ritual

    Slowly putting it together lol
    I want to try a monoblack version with Lake of the Dead and Grave Titan but I'm not sure if that's going to be better than Brainstorm

  12. #552
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    kombat_kiwi, nice to see you're getting back into the cards for the deck!

    I played without Blue once and went 3-1, but I think I played either Green or White for a second colour, because otherwise you're moderately cold to things like Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt and stone cold to Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void. Unless there is something that's been printed in Black that gets rid of those two things that I don't know about? I would have played some number of Abrupt Decays, Reverent Silences, Serenities, and Swords to Plowshares.

    I believe I had a few slots spare after I had four each of Entomb, Shallow Grave, Reanimate, Exhume, Buried Alive, etc, and I remember thinking I could do with a bit of card draw, but never figured out what would be best for the slots.

    But although it's perfectly playable, I don't think it will be as good as the deck with Brainstorm.

  13. #553

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    kombat_kiwi, nice to see you're getting back into the cards for the deck!

    I played without Blue once and went 3-1, but I think I played either Green or White for a second colour, because otherwise you're moderately cold to things like Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt and stone cold to Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void. Unless there is something that's been printed in Black that gets rid of those two things that I don't know about? I would have played some number of Abrupt Decays, Reverent Silences, Serenities, and Swords to Plowshares.

    I believe I had a few slots spare after I had four each of Entomb, Shallow Grave, Reanimate, Exhume, Buried Alive, etc, and I remember thinking I could do with a bit of card draw, but never figured out what would be best for the slots.

    But although it's perfectly playable, I don't think it will be as good as the deck with Brainstorm.
    I guess the idea is that if they RIP you then you just hardcast Titan and go to town
    The deck can also adopt some of the RB reanimator midrange SB tech that dodges GY hate (Pack Rat / Cryptbreaker)

  14. #554
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    kombatkiwi, Grave Titan sounds like a good idea. I've never read into the Br Reanimator midrange sideboard stuff, but I have always had a fondness for Pack Rat. Have you got a list in mind? Even a rough one? I would like to see it, because I am thinking about building my friend something UB and might need to play Oozing in B or Bx for a little while.

  15. #555
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Congratzzzz Pandaman !!! 3-2 , 4-0 and 3-1 . Do you like the new meta ? and the changes ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    If I sideboard in Silent Gravestone I will sideboard out two Reanimate, leaving me with four Shallow Grave and two Exhume. It is usually enough, becauase you also have hardcast Ooze. I haven't yet had my single Griselbrand stuck in my hand in G1 since I picked up the deck again but I remember being frustrated by it in the past so I don't mind the idea of going back up to two Griselbrand. Also, it makes getting 20 damage with Ooze much easier! I disagree that Putrid Imp is a bad card, but Collective Brutality is definitely better in this deck. Two Brutality in the main is excellent. Two Cabal Therapy has been good. Silent Gravestone is incredible against Reanimator because they usually board out their Exhumes against you because they don't want to give you free reanimation.

    I don't know why I sideboarded Iona against RUG, it was silly, and I wouldn't do it again. When do you bring in Grave Titan? Also, why do you play Bontu's Reckoning and not Massacre? Massacre costs less and does exactly what you want it to against creatures: kills 2/2 hatebears like Canonist and Containment Priest. THe only thing it's bad against is Gaddock Teeg but I haven't seen one of those in Legacy for ages. Could you tell me more about what matchups you might use Bontu's Reckoning for?
    -I believe only 6 reanimate effects seems low count . I have ever 7-8 +2-3 Necrotic Ooze .
    -I hate draw putrid imp . I dont need it . We had brainstorm , cabal therapy , collective brutality , buried alive, discard phase ... I prefer draw good cards.
    -Grave titan enters vs RIP.decks .
    -I will try another time massacre . Played bontus vs aggro decks, taxes, eldrazi , elves , maybe grixis...

    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    G3 I sideboard back into the combo and bring in the three Echoing Truths. I open a hand of Thoughtseize, Thoughtseize, Shallow Grave, Brainstorm, Ponder, Scrubland, and Polluted Delta. That's pretty good: T1 and T2 discard for relevant hate pieces and then cantrips to find the missing part of the combo. The only problem is mana: I can't fetch basic swamp for Thoughseize because I need to fetch U to cantrip. I'm therefore forced to lead with Scrubland, Thoughtseize. I see Hazoret, Magus of the Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Simian Spirit Guide, and three sol lands. If I take Simian Spirit Guide he's probably 17/53 to draw another R source (10 Mountains, 3 SSGs, and 4 Chrome Mox) to cast the Magus, while if I take Magus he's max 7/53 to draw another Moon effect (could be 3 Magus but probably only two, and 4 Blood Moon). If he draws Chalice I can't do anything about it, but if he draws Trininsphere I'll be able to take it on T2 with my second Thoughtseize. So after thinking about all this, I take Magus of the Moon and pass. He draws and casts the Blood Moon he drew that turn. I proceed to not draw into my Island, Swamp, or enough Lotus Petals and die.

    What do you think of my reasoning on my Thoughtseize target? I think it was solid, but would love some other opinions.
    -Do you likes mentor's plan ? VS dragon stompy its best continue with the plan ,and take Echoing Truth .
    - My play --> Polluted , go . Opp will play moon,fech--> island and continue playing the game with brainstoms and ponder.

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    I want to try a monoblack version with Lake of the Dead and Grave Titan but I'm not sure if that's going to be better than Brainstorm
    1 friend from my store, will try to play mono black , and this its my recommendation :

    2 necrotic ooze
    1 trisquelion
    1 phyrexian devourer
    1 putrid imp
    1 griselbrand
    2 Grave titan

    4 reanimate
    4 exhume

    2 C brutality
    2 CTerapy
    4 kozilek

    4 dark ritual
    4 smallpox
    4 entomb
    3 buried alive
    4 night's whispers

    15 swamp
    2 Lake of the Dead

    Cheap version ,buts its a beggining .
    -------------------------------------------------

    I will try this new version :

    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion
    2 Griselbrand
    3 Necrotic Ooze ( Maybe i will change to 2 ooze and 1 Borborygmos Enraged, i like it ! )

    2 Swan Song
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb
    4 Shallow Grave

    2 Collective Brutality
    3 Buried Alive
    2 Cabal Therapy
    1 Duress
    4 Exhume
    4 Ponder

    4 Lotus Petal

    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Ancient Tomb
    2 Island
    2 Swamp
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta

    SB :
    3 Echoing Truth
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Massacre
    2 Bloodgift demon
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    4 Silent Gravestone

    What do you think ?
    I will test this new demon vs Rip decks .

    Continue oozing !

  16. #556

    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by Pin_Vlc View Post
    1 friend from my store, will try to play mono black , and this its my recommendation :

    2 necrotic ooze
    1 trisquelion
    1 phyrexian devourer
    1 putrid imp
    1 griselbrand
    2 Grave titan

    4 reanimate
    4 exhume

    2 C brutality
    2 CTerapy
    4 kozilek

    4 dark ritual
    4 smallpox
    4 entomb
    3 buried alive
    4 night's whispers

    15 swamp
    2 Lake of the Dead

    Cheap version ,buts its a beggining .
    -------------------------------------------------
    - I don't think you have to cut Shallow Grave (or Lotus Petal) because even with Grave Titan it still lets you attack for 6 and makes 4 Zombies.
    - Lake of the Dead and Smallpox is such a nonbo I'm not sure that this is the way to go, if I wanted more discard outlets I would try to play more brutality I think (or Liliana of the Veil)
    - You have no colourless mana sources so Sign in Blood might be better than Night's Whisper

    But yeah something kind of like this is what I was thinking of

    Have you thought about playing Custodi Lich in the Bloodgift Demon slot?
    It kills a thing when it comes into play and you get to keep the Phyrexian Arena even if they Swords it.
    Just depends how many creatures you think your opponent will have (and it dies to Massacre which isn't great)

  17. #557
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Thanks Pin! I went 3-1 last night too.

    R1 v Merfolk. Won 2-1.

    Game 1 I'm on the draw and have Bloodstained Mire, Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave, Thoughtseize, Therapy, Ponder. This is a turn two or three kill with good disruption, so I keep. My opponent leads with Island Aether Vial. I fetch basic Swamp to play around Wasteland and Thoughtseize and see double Cursecatcher Chalice Wasteland. I have to take Chalice, but that means he gets to play both Cursecatchers. My hand could deal with counterspells, but not Cursecatcher and Chalice. It takes me too long play around the Cursecatchers and I die to Lord of Atlantis and Mutavault beatdown. Game 2 I'm on the play and start cantripping, but he doesn't have much action except for a Cursecatcher and Mutavault. I put him on lots of countermagic and perhaps Surgical Extraction. I Collective Brutality at one stage and escalate discarding a Dark Ritual I don't need (I have another in hand and am accumulating a fair amount of lands) to see his hand and kill Cursecatcher. He Spell Pierces. I Dark Ritual to pay for it. He Forces my Ritual. I let his counterspells do their work, happy that I got two Forces and a Pierce out of his hand. Next turn I cast Necrotic Ooze with mana to play around Daze - Cursecatcher can't stop that! On his next turn he casts Phantasmal Image on Ooze. I just pass through my next turn, and at the end of his next turn kill the Image with Echoing Truth. I then I cast Dark Ritual into Phyrexian Devourer, not caring if it's countered. I keep swinging with Ooze until he doesn't block, then activate Devourer's ability until it kills itself and win. Game 3 I'm back on the draw. He casts a Umezawa's Jitte on Turn 2 and a True-Name Nemesis on Turn 3. It's clear he wants to race, which means he's got little countermagic and perhaps not any Surgicals. He only has one card left in hand - no Force and I can play around Daze - so I use Therapy naming Surgical Extraction (he has an Island in hand) and Exhume a Griselbrand to start racing him. I'm winning the race but I make sure of it by using Echoing Truth on a Jitte, making him have to cast it into my Spell Pierce. Griselbrand takes the win here.

    R2 v Nic Fit. Loss 0-2.

    G1 he leads Swamp into Cabal Therapy but misses. I get my combo in the graveyard with some cantrips in hand to find the reanimation spell. He casts Scavenging Ooze from his hand. Oh dear. I find Shallow Grave and Reanimate but by that point he has two green mana available and is sitting on them so I can't win. Game 2 I'm on the play and lead with Silent Gravestone, losing my Entomb to a T1 Thoughtseize. My T2 Thoughtseize shows Scavenging Ooze, Surgical Extraction, Siege Rhino, Diabolic Intent, and some lands. I take Intent in case he runs RiP in the deck. With Silent Gravestone protection it's now safe to dump my combo in the yard with Buried Alive, which I do, but again my cantripping doesn't find a reanimation spell and I die to Tireless Tracker and Rhino beats. I didn't put him on Nic Fit, although Swamp into Therapy should have tipped me off. I put him on some sort of BW deck with Stoneforge Mystic and Lingering Souls because all I saw before the ScOoze was a Swamp and a Marsh Flats and Therapy. This was a mistake and was because I haven't played enough Legacy recently. He was someone I hadn't played or seen before. If I had more meta knowledge I would have played G1 differently and might have had a better chance, although my draws were terrible so I'm not sure it would have mattered.

    R3 v BR Reanimator. Win 2-1.

    G1 I'm on the draw. He plays Swamp and passes. I cast Thoughtseize and he responds for Entomb into Griselbrand. I see two Animate Dead and Lotus Petal in hand. I take Petal, but he draws Badlands and gets Griselbrand. My hand is slow - T3 Buried Alive into T4 Exhume - but was good and keepable because I had Thoughtseize, Therapy, and Brutality. G2 I'm on the play and we rip each other's hands apart. He Reanimates my Necrotic Ooze. I have an Entomb Shallow Grave in hand but now can't get Griselbrand. Instead, I have to Shallow Grave the Triskelion in my graveyard to trade with Ooze. I lose my Entomb to a discards spell. I cast a second Necrotic Ooze I've drawn and start beating. He's not doing much, and can't Entomb Griselbrand because of Ooze. I end up swinging him to 7, then next turn Shallow Shallow the first Ooze from my yard without any of the combo and just kill him with double Ooze combat damage. That'll teach you to steal my Oozes! G3 he mulls to five and me to six. I'm on the draw. He reveals double Chancellor. I don't have the luxury of popping them with a surplus reanimation spell (I have two SHallow Grave and Exhume) because I still need to clear the Chancellor triggers in case I draw an Entomb etc. (need to win quickly because I have no disruption) so I trigger them both with a Thoughtseize, clearing the way for me to win if I draw any business. However, we both proceed to draw nothing for many turns. I eventually draw into the mana to cast Triskelion in my hand and do so, starting the beats. He finally draws reanimation and Unmasks a Chancellor out of his hand and Reanimates it, going to 6. I don't swing and pass back. He doesn't swing, of course, because he would be dead, and passes back. At the end of his turn I activate Triskelion twice targeting him, taking him to four, activate it targeting itself so it dies, and Shallow Grave it. In my next turn, I then do the same thing for another two damage, taking him to two, and then Exhume it for lethal. I haven't done that before!

    R4 v Big Eldrazi. Won 2-1.

    G1 he's on the play and has T1 Chalice of the Void. I'm sitting on two cantrips and an Entomb, so that hurts a bit. I eventually get to draw some cards with Griselbrand but I can't get a win going and die to Thought-Knot Seer. G2 I Thoughtseize taking Chalice of the Void, seeing lands and a Trinisphere. He ramps while I try and find a way to win. I Buried Alive for the combo and he then casts Thought-Knot Seer into 3Ball. Fortunately, I have two reanimation spells in hand that both cost two and three lands in play so I win the next turn. G3 he has T1 Chalice AGAIN. I have Buried Alive and Exhume in hand, though, so all I need to do is draw land to cast them. I draw Swamp Lotus Petal on Turns 1 and 2 and win. Afterwards he tells me he drew Ravenous Trap the turn after I cast Buried Alive. Phew! (What do you all think? Would you keep a one-land Exhume Buried Alive hand on the draw against a Chalice deck, hoping to draw land? Or would you mulligan? It worked out for me this time but it might not be the right play.)

    I sideboarded in Echoing Truth and Spell Pierce against Merfolk because they tend to play Relic of Progenitus as graveyard hate, in my experience anyway. I boarded in Silent Gravestone and Echoing Truth against Maverick for Scooze, Surgical, and RiP. I boarded in Spell Pierce and Swan Song against BR Reanimator. I didn't board Silent Gravestone this time. I think that Gravestone is cute, but Spell Pierce and Swan Song actually counter his spells, which is just better. And I boarded in Echoing Truth against Big Eldrazi because I expected Leyline. I was wrong - he had Ravenous Trap and Faerie Macabre - but he told me he would run Leylines if he owned them.

    Pin, to answer some of your points in your last post:

    I have eight reanimate effects preboard, but to fit in the sideboard cards they are one of things I usually trim. Sometimes they end up as six, which is workable, but other times I can keep in seven, which I like more. To fit in sideboard cards, I usually trim one Necrotic Ooze, one Griselbrand, one Buried Alive, one reanimation spell, and a fifth thing that doesn't seem good in the matchup. Against decks without Wasteland the fifth thing is usually my basic Island, going to 14 lands.

    We will have to agree to disagree about Putrid Imp - I think it's a great little card - but Collective Brutality is definitely better so I'm not playing Imp now.

    Grave Titan is great tech against RIP, I'll use it in future.

    I don't really like the Mentor plan now that Top and Probe are gone. I think the anti-hate plan from the sideboard is stronger now. I agree that I shouldn't have brought it in against Dragon Stomp. In that game, I agree with your play to fetch basic Island. I should have done that.

    Edit: My list was:

    2 Swamp
    1 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal

    3 Necrotic Ooze
    2 Griselbrand
    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion

    4 Entomb
    3 Buried Alive

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Reanimate
    2 Exhume

    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Collective Brutality

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    Sideboard

    4 Silent Gravestone
    3 Echoing Truth
    3 Massacre
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Swan Song
    1 Exhume
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

    I don't like not having four Thoughtseize in the maindeck, but I cut one to put the second Griselbrand in like Pin suggested.

    I still don't like my sideboard. I don't know whether I need four Gravestones or three Massacres, and I don't like the Exhume. And I don't even know if I want the Swan Song because Spell Pierce has been better (countered a fair few artifacts and planeswalkers where Swan Song would have been dead).
    Last edited by pandaman; 08-16-2018 at 10:45 PM.

  18. #558
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    I played in a small local tournament yesterday. I went 3-1 and ID'd into Top 8, but then in my first elimination match v Burn my cantrips bricked and I didn't find the combo in time, then had to take a mullingan to five and didn't find enough land to cast the combo in time. I'm pretty devastated, because otherwise the deck and sideboard performed really well. My list was:

    2 Swamp
    1 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 Urborg, Tomg of Yawgmoth
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal

    3 Necrotic Ooze
    2 Griselbrand
    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion

    4 Shallow Grave
    2 Reanimate
    2 Exhume

    4 Entomb
    3 Buried Alive

    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Collective Brutality

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    Sideboard (15)

    4 Silent Gravestone
    3 Echoing Truth
    3 Massacre
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Swan Song
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

    I misplayed in G3 against RUG, for some reason choosing to fetch Griselbrand first instead of Necrotic Ooze when I was Exhuming and I suspected he had a Surgical Extraction in hand. Had I done it the other way around I could have got Griselbrand with the second Entomb if he decided to Surgical the Ooze, and if the Ooze resolved I would have been able to get Griselbrand and draw some cards or, if I suspected Stifle, get Phyrexian Devourer and attempt to go for lethal. So the misplay cost me at least the chance of winning the match.

    Otherwise, the deck felt resilient and powerful, and I think I made good plays. I beat Miracles 2-0, winning in G2 on 2 life staring down a Snapcaster Mage, having played through double Force of Will, Counterspell, Flusterstorm, Surgical Extraction, and that Snapcaster flashing back Surgical. I beat Tezzerator that had Chalice of the Void for 1 on T2 in G1 and that had double Ethersworn Canonist double Force of Will Chalice of the Void in G2. I beat D&T easily, largely because he got a decklist error game loss in G1, although I had a minor heart attack in our G2 because I cast Turn 1 Cabal Therapy naming Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and missing, intending to win T2, but he drew a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben off the top! So I had to change my plan to win on T4 instead.

    The sideboard felt really good against what I faced. There were two Miracles players in the tournament, so the double Swan Song was the right choice, although I never drew it. I hit D&T so the Massacres were good, although our G2 was pre-sideboard because of his game loss G1. Echoing Truth came in in most matchups. It could have bounced Grafdigger's Cage against RUG, Counterbalance or Containment Priest against Miracles, Chalice and Leyline of the Void against Tezzerator, and Rest in Peace and hatebears against D&T. I usually brought in two in G2 if I wasn't sure what hate I would be facing. I brought in three immediately against Chalice. I used Silent Gravestone against RUG and Miracles (Surgical) and Burn (Faerie Macabre/Surgical) but didn't use it against the Chalice deck or against D&T. I used Iona against Burn.

    Although it didn't make the slightest difference, I don't think I sideboarded correctly against Burn. I'm not sure if you want Silent Gravestones because it means taking out Reanimate, and I think you need to be as fast as possible to try and get the combo or Iona on Red. I think you have to rely on your hand disruption to beat Faerie and Surgical. In future I think I would just bring in Iona and two Echoing Truth. What do you all think?

    I'm also not convinced I am sideboarding correctly against Tezzerator, or against Chalice decks in general. Should I be taking Ponders out, with the aim of reducing the impact of Chalice if it lands? Or perhaps I should only be doing this on the play? Should I be sideboarding in Spell Pierce to try and counter Chalice? And again, should this only be happening on the play?

    I took out the basic Island against all decks that didn't run Wasteland - Burn and Miracles. I took them out against Tezzerator because he had a four-colour manabase and I gambled he wasn't greedy enough to play Wasteland as well as four colours and Sol lands. I was right. I think 14 lands is reasonable against those types of decks. I left it in against RUG Delver and D&T because of their playset of Wastelands.

    I still like Reanimate maindeck rather than two more Exhume because it's faster, but there is an increasing amount of Chalice decks and tempo decks in the local meta so I'm considering switching to four Exhume like Pin has. Reanimate can be a risky, and sometimes impossible, card to cast against RUG Delver, Grixis Delver, and Burn, or any other deck that aggressively attacks your life total. Exhuming Griselbrand against these types of decks, like I did against RUG in G1 through double Force of Will, Daze, and Spell Pierce, feels really powerful, while using Reanimate would leave me very nervous about getting alpha-striked or simply burned out. Against Chalice, it's nice to have the increased possibility of opening Buried Alive+Exhume or Collective Brutality+Griselbrand+Exhume, or sneaking off an Entomb before a Chalice lands and then using Exhume, rather than getting Chalice'd and sitting there with two of your Reanimation spells dead as well as all of your Dark Rituals and cantrips. Reanimate has advantages over Exhume in other matches, too. Against Reanimator you can Reanimate their creatures. Against D&T, sometimes you make them discard a hatebear like Phyrexian Revoker or Thalia and therefore can't win if you are attempting to return Ooze or Griselbrand with Exhume, but would be able to win with Reanimate. What do you all think?

  19. #559
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Hi guys !

    Last weekend i played Zaragoza's MKM .
    I played 1 trial and main Legacy event .

    My list :

    1 Phyrexian Devourer
    1 Triskelion
    1 Griselbrand
    2 Necrotic Ooze

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb
    4 Shallow Grave

    4 Force of will
    3 Reanimate
    2 Collective Brutallity
    3 Buried Alive
    4 Daze
    4 Ponder
    4 Lotus Petal

    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Island
    1 Misty Rainforest
    2 Swamp
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Polluted Delta

    SB
    4 Doomsday
    1 Emrakul
    1 Shelldock Isle
    1 laboratory maniac
    3 Echoing Truth
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    2 massacre
    1 pitting needle
    1 Duress

    Trial , 4 rounds for 2 bye main event .

    R1 Moon stompy

    Polluted go , my oppo mulls to 5 , and made simian+simian+simian blood moon xDDD . I daze it and GG with necrotic ooze.
    SB Iona and 3 Echoing Truth .
    Another moon in t1, but fow saved me . T3 entomb+shallow grave and Griselbrand kills the oppo.

    R2 Manaless Dredge

    G1 was slowly , discard me and ichorid started kill me . I could win , but i need 1 live more and i lost.
    G2 swap to doomsday and T1 doomsday :D . He only discarted 1 card from my hand, and laboratory maniac let me win
    G3 T2 Iona and GG .

    R3 D&T

    G1 its easy , i killed thalia with Collective Brutallity and necrotic ooze combo .
    G2 He mulls to 5 and i mulled to 6. T2 doomsday, seems easy, but he played very well and stop my combo .
    G3 Return to reanimator combo . T1 lotus to brainstorm ,and i saw entomb + dark ritual + reanimate xDDD . urbog and Griselbrand . Plains and swords to griselbrand . Draw 7 and i had daze, but i can kill next turn . I let griselbrand die, and everybody looked me like a fool xDDD . T2 kill with daze back up ! .

    R4 Merfolks .

    He started very aggro and play chalice of 1 . In eot entomb, but he missplayed and dont cut it . Griselbrand let me won !
    G2 i lost fast . Continue with reanimator plan : Iona , 3 Echoing Truth and duress .
    G3 Necrotic kills with fow for surgical .

    2 bye !!!

    Main event, start 2-0

    R3 Elfs

    T1 kill very easy .
    G2 Iona , 3 Echoing Truth and duress . He played very well, have a lot of discard and my hand its slow.
    G3 Ponder and i can t2 griselbrand . T2 oppo play green ooze and i cut with fow . In my turn Griselbrand and surgical... i played very bad . I must let ooze enter, play my ooze and wait 2-3 turns .:(

    R4 Br reanimator

    I saw this guy last round , and i know what plays .
    T1 kill with necrotic ooze safe .
    G2 Iona , 3 Echoing Truth and duress . He played a lot of discard, and reanimate my Necrotic , i lost at beatdown .
    G3 War of discard and counters . I had a Griselbrand in gy , and shallow grave in hand. I want to reanimate it in EOT , but he played Strongold gambit. I had in hand Iona , but i suspect, he had Chancellor . Shallow grave to Griselbrand and i draw 14 . I need 1 counter, 1 echoring , 1 creature like necrotic, triskelion , devourer... i draw only garbage . He put Chancellor ( DINDINDINDINDIN ! ) and i lost anoter time - 2-2 .

    R5 and Drop... Grixis control .

    My Sb must destroy it .
    g1 counter 3 times my reanimate /hardcast ooze . I flooded too. Lost to caster beatdown.
    g2 t3 doomsday and he had 2 diabolic edict ... gg and drop !.

    Doomsday sb must destroy grixis control and miracles , i had bad luck with pairings and the deck , falls me .

    GO oozers !!!

  20. #560
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    Re: [PRIMER] Oozing

    Quote Originally Posted by Pin_Vlc View Post
    Hi guys !

    R2 Manaless Dredge

    G1 was slowly , discard me and ichorid started kill me . I could win , but i need 1 live more and i lost.
    G2 swap to doomsday and T1 doomsday :D . He only discarted 1 card from my hand, and laboratory maniac let me win
    G3 T2 Iona and GG .
    Hey there,

    I was your Manaless Dredge rival. Great games we had there, your deck looks really fun and solid, I might give it a try. I'm not sure what should have happened Game 3 if you hadn't bounced my Ichorid twice with Echoing Truths :)
    Colorless is the new blue
    http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com

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