I suppose you could try it but I would watch the CMC of the things you replace them with. The UBr variant has a much harder time getting beyond 4 mana than the UB, so I wouldn't recommend putting things like Batterskull/Wurmcoil/etc. in the deck. I also designed the deck to this point with getting Thopter/Sword online as soon as possible, but if that's not as effective in your local metagame, you can certainly try less copies of those cards.
Hey, y'all, had a couple line of play questions:
1) I'm 2-0 in a small local tourney and get paired against Storm. Game 1, I'm on the draw and see this hand:
Mox Diamond, Swamp, Force of Will, Chalice of the Void, Thopter Foundry, Tezzeret the Seeker, Engineered Explosives
Do you keep? If I draw a land (I run 24), and he has no T1 Duress, I have a pretty good anti-Storm hand. Of course you run the risk of never drawing a land and watching them go off. But this deck isn't the best with mulligans, so would you rather try for a more consistent 6?
2) I'm against MUD. He has a mana base of two Ancient Tombs, Glimmerpost and Metalworker, along with a tapped Grim Monolith. He resolved Staff of Domination with two unknown cards in hand and has a Lodestone Golem pacified by my Ensnaring Bridge.
It's my turn. I have a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas with four loyalty. I have three artifacts in play and a hand of Engineered Explosives (with the ability to play it for up to 3) and Tezzeret the Seeker (with six mana). We're both at 9 life. What's the play?
- We can play EE for 3, Tezz ultimate to put him at 1, then blow EE to kill Worker and Staff but sacrifice our Bridge and risk dying to Lodestone. Presumably we'd follow up with Big Tezz and do what? Tutor for Foundry first and chump block Golem until we assemble the combo the turn after?
- We can +1 Tezz to find an artifact so we can drain for lethal next turn and try to fade a Staff infinite.
- Possibly something else that I missed. This game was whacky.
For reference, here's my list:
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Academy Ruins
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Mox Diamond
2 Dimir Signet
4 Baleful Strix
1 Sylvan Library
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Thopter Foundr
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Thanks for the help!
If you make EE then Ultimate Tezz, you go up to 17 life so you should definitely have time to find Thopter Foundry before Lodestone kills you.
We can put Thopter Foundry into play, but if we don't draw a land, we can't activate it cuz Tezzeret the Seeker would cost 6 due to Lodestone Golem. In that case, we'd get Foundry, Big Tezz would die, and then we'd draw off the top against MUD. That's still probably better than risking losing to Staff of Domination, though.
And what about the Storm hand?
Thanks, y'all!
If tezz ult drops him to 1 then you can tezz tutor for strix or foundry and just swing with a 1/1 for the win.
As for the storm deck I would definitely mull into more mana. Force does nothing if he probes or duresses you and if you don't top deck a land for T1 chalice you have a very real risk of dying on turn 2 or 3. Your best bet is to mulligan into a less clunky hand and hope your scry digs you into somethin relevant. Honestly if that hand was a 6 card hand minus the tezz it would be keep able but you need something better.
I have a similar question for you guys at the GP late in day 1 I get matched up against the slowest UWb stone blade player in my life. I win game 1 in 12 minutes. Game 2 he luck sacks his way into Jace ultimate me out (literally top decks disenchant into councils judgement into Jace VP into Snap) but take literally forever to actually win (he spent literally 10 minutes on trying to figure out Jace VP and the abyss interaction with 4 Judge questions and no time extension). So we go to game 3 with 6 minutes left and I have a hand of Helmline full combo, Thopter foundry, ensnaring bridge, mox diamond, wasteland, dack fayden. Do you keep the hand and just hope to draw sol lands? At this point a loss or draw ends your potential for day 2 and are equally bad.
I don't really think you can keep that hand against Esperblade. They have both hand disruption and countermagic, either of which completely wrecks you.
This is the list I ran at my LGS this past week for our game night, I wanted to try a forceless build to see if it made any difference or not.
Land (24)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x City of Traitors
1x Island
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
4x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
3x Wasteland
Enchantment (2)
2x Ghirapur AEther
Artifact (19)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Dimir Signet
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Mox Diamond
1x Smokestack
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Thopter Foundr
Planeswalker (7)
3x Dack Fayden
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Sorcery (4)
2x Toxic Deluge
2x Transmute Artifact
Creature (4)
4x Baleful Strix
Sideboard (15)
2x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Helm of Obedience
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Lodestone Golem
2x Misdirection
2x Kolaghan's Command
1x Trinisphere
I had a blast playing this. The smokestack could probably be moved, I would consider another Ashiok(love this guy).
Round 1: Death and Taxes
This guy usually punishes me hard no matter what deck I play, this time I just had too many threats to deal with. He didn't seem to find many white mana sources.
g1 - I setup thopter combo early, aether grid, and a tezz, quick scoop
g2 - I keep a risky hand with multiple sol lands and only a diamond, got punished for being greedy but I tend to be greedy if I am up a game
g3 - Similar to game 1
Record 1-0
Round 2: Aggro Loam
Very good player, playing a build unique to our store so we had a blast trying to deal with each others things
g1 - I get out early dack and proceed to crucible wasteland him every turn while setting up my other combo for the kill
g2 - Got wrecked. He had too many dudes to deal with and just kept smashing me with punishing fire twice a turn. Hindsight, probably should have brought in that trinisphere....
g3 - I setup crucible turn 1, pitching a fetch so that I can keep thinning my next few turns, he thoughtseizes me twice. We both ran chalice on 1 so our boarded games we took them out, didn't see the thoughtseize coming. Transmuted to get a smokestack which cost me the game, should have went for a bridge.
Record 1-1
Round 3: Esper Deathblade
These games are pretty one sided, his only way to deal with a bridge is a 1 of council's judgement
g1 - Setup thopter combo early, he scoops
g2 - He was a bit more heavy on his counter magic that previous testing and got me before I could set up anything.
g3 - This one got interesting, we had a few judge calls about some interesting interactions. First was I took his Fire and Ice which was equipped to his stoneforge, he attacked and wasn't aware that I got the Fire and Ice triggers. Second was me using misdirection on his abrupt decay to target his true name nemesis.
Record 2-1
Fun game: Miracles
Have done zero testing against a counter heavy deck
g1 - He gets some super lucky blind flips, but cant deal with all of my nonsense going on with thopter and aether grid
g2 - Early tezz followed by thopter combo, went pretty fast
Love the list, still going to test it some. I have a lot of work to do before the NJ Open
Hey everybody,
I played U/B Tezzerator today at South Florida Magics Sunday Legacy event. Here is the link, match starts around 43:45
My match up was against a very experienced Jund player. Feel free to watch it and tear me apart. I totally forgot a chalice trigger and let my opponent thoughtseize me. I also should have taken out chalice in game 2 and 3. Im getting better at Tezzeret (slowly) and I ask my friend for a lot of advice which helps. Sideboarding is probably the toughest for me and this deck does NOT mulligan well.
My list for today was:
Creatures - 10
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Baleful Strix
2x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Instants - 7
4x Force of Will
3x Impulse
Sorceries - 2
2x Toxic Deluge
Artifacts - 13
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Talisman of Dominance
3x Dimir Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Ensnaring Bridge
Planeswalker - 4
4x Tezzeret Agent of Bolas
Enchantment
1x The Abyss
Lands - 23
3x Island
2x Swamp
3x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
2x Seat of the Synod
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Academy Ruins
1x Urobog, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Helm of Obedience
3x Transmute Artifact
1x The Abyss
1x Damnation
1x Lodestone Golem
1x Pithing Needle
1x Trinisphere
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ensnaring Bridge
I stopped playing the swords combo in here because Abrupt Decay is everywhere. My best games are either hide behind the bridge until ultimate or minus tezz and hit fast. I was looking to generate some card selection so thats why i went with Impulse and Jace. Also being able to flash back Impulse, Deluge, or damnation would be great. I really love the hangarbacks in here, they did great today.
I feel like the Sideboard is a mess and I might remove the Leyline/helm combo.
Let me know what you think. Fire away, I have tuff skin.
That's certainly an interesting decklist. You can look back in the thread to around the time of the Origins release to look at the discussion of Hangarback Walker, but the general consensus is that Walker is too slow and costs too much mana to get much use out of it. If your metagame is as infested with Jund as you say, it might be fine, but it's not the greatest anywhere else. Jace, VP also looks really out of place in that list. You're not playing Thopter/Sword to get any kind of card advantage out of his creature-side activation, and even his flashback ability is somewhat unimpressive when your targets are 3 mediocre cards and 2 cards that you probably don't want to be casting more than once. I could maybe see a copy in that deck if you were playing Transmute Artifact as well (that card really should be maindeck if it's going to be in the deck at all), but at that point you run into issues with your artifact count for Tezzeret.
Notably missing from your deck are, as you mentioned, Thopter/Sword but also Baleful Strix. Baleful Strix (and Thopter/Sword for that matter) is really important in the BGx matchup to fight against Tarmogoyf, so I'm wondering why that's not in the list since you mentioned your concern for the Jund matchup. It's an attractive Decay target, sure, but I've found that the best way to fight against Decay is not to make your targets unattractive to your opponent (see: Hangarback Walker) but rather to present more must-Decay permanents than your opponent has Decays to cast.
So far I have been liking the hangarback. Normally he starts swinging when he gets turned into a 5/5 plus his counters. My problem with transmutes was that the times I had them I haven't been able to get double blue. Jace was added for card selection with an upside I guess and flashing back the impulse.
Baleful is in the deck as a 4 of. Thopter/sword may go back in as 1/1. The lifegain loss is steep with this deck! So that may help mitigate. I've considered using a vault skirge as well. Has anyone here tried using Mox opals or etched champions?
So since making some changes after Sea-Tac I've been undefeated in local Legacy tournaments the past couple of weeks with this list:
Land (23)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
4x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
3x Wasteland
Enchantment (1)
1x The Abyss
Artifact (17)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Dimir Signet
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Mox Diamond
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Thopter Foundry
Planeswalker (8)
3x Dack Fayden
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Jace, the Mindsculptor
Sorcery (2)
2x Transmute Artifact
Instant (4)
4x Force of Will
Creature (5)
4x Baleful Strix
1x Notion Thief
Sideboard (15)
2x Blood Moon
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Helm of Obedience
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Lodestone Golem
1x Misdirection
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Trinisphere
1x The Abyss
The decks been testing well against Miracles, BUG, Death and Taxes, Storm (lol), and Lands. Unfortunately literally nobody plays Delver in our meta and the Jund player is just on lands. But overall the decks been performing better than expected and I feel like I'm using every card in my sideboard more often than previously. Blood Moon has been doing some work as well. Even in long Grindy games a top decked moon has won me games against Bug. I've also experimented bringing it in against various other decks and it's always been very impactful while rarely screwing over my own mana.
I do really like where our deck sits in the metagame right now. I played legacy all day Friday and on Saturday/Sunday after scrubbing out of GP Pittsburgh and only dropped a total of 3 matches over the course of the weekend.
Also:
I somehow completely glazed over that, my bad.
I'm bringing my version of Tezz to the NJ Legacy open this weekend. Here's my current list:
Creatures: 9
4 Baleful Strix
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Master of Etherium
Permanents: 15
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tangle Wire
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instants/Sorceries: 10
4 Ancestral Visions
2 Transmute Artifact
4 Force of Will
Mana Sources: 26
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Diamond
3 Dimir Signet
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Seat of the Synod
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Wasteland
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Engineered Plague
1 Misdirection
1 The Abyss
1 Winter Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Cyclonic Rift
Some questions I'd like to ask people:
1. Ancestral Visions. Is four too many? I really like having this card as an alternate turn 1 play to Chalice of the Void, as well as a cheap way to power through BUG and other grindy decks.
2. Sideboard is locked except for the last two, Spine of Ish Sah and Cylconic Rift. I like these as catch-all answers to problems I haven't anticipated. Rift seems solid against Show and Tell and as a finisher against swarm decks. I'm considering a second bridge, a batterskull, and a Karn Liberated instead.
Took my forceless list to an IQ in Bristol this past weekend.
Round 1: Burn
G1: Thopter combo and an early trinisphere was GG
G2: Chalice for 1 followed by thoper combo and tezz made this match pretty short
1-0
Round 2: Death and Taxes
This one was frustrating because it was a person I test against regularly who rode with us to the event. I haven't lost to him since swapping to this build, until today...
G1: I keep a slow hand with waste lock and a foundry. He gets some creatures going and I Deluge them away. He plays some small threats then waits for me to play a piece to revoker it.
G2: Mull to 5, keep some acceleration with a signet from my scry, top deck another signet to get them hit by revoker, GG
1-1
Round 3: Esper Mentor
Copy paste of Chapin's list from GP SeaTac
G1: He just blows me away and sets up mentor nonsense before I can establish anything
G2: Counters my threats and waits to play a jace to fateseal me for the win
1-2
Round 4: Jeskai Aggro
This one was strange....
G1: Delver, Mantis Rider, Lightning Angel, and some heavy counter magic. Just confused at this point
G2: Setup chalice on 1, make some 5/5s with Tezz and she cant keep up
G3: Thopter combo with Aether Grid, just love it
2-2
Round 5: Elves
G1: He plays a 1/1 and passes, I turn 1 an Aether Grid, he looks wide-eyed, and I blow away his board until I setup thopter
G2: I got double Wirewood / Reclamation Sage'd. GG
G3: Setup a bridge and a Chalice early, Hit Aehter Grid to have him rec sage it, kill in response. Start widdling away with thopters and finish with a tezz ult
At one point he sighed and said "So this is how I lose...."
3-2 Overall
I am unsure If I want to keep in 4 Leyline of the Void, I saw Losset testing with only 2. Probably going to move some things around to have the forces back, as much as I love Aether Grid I think it may go to sideboard. Trying to finalize some things before the Jersey Legacy Open
Aether Grid is all right. I'm considering put one in the board over the second deluge since they serve similar purposes. I don't like it maindeck in my build because I'm not quite as all in on Thopter/Swords and that's where it can really shine. I decided on having 2 copies of The Abyss on the 75 because I really wanted better answers to cards like Goyf or Bskull that wasn't just deluge or hiding behind bridge and a lot of decks (BUG) have trouble winning through a resolved Abyss. It can randomly steal game 1s and postboard I really want to make sure I see one hence bringing in the second copy and sometimes a random pulse or Kgrip can roll of the top so having a backup copy really puts a strain on their SB hate.
I have a Jace over say an Ashiok or Big Tezz simply because in grindy games he can put you so far ahead and people see him as way more of a threat than say Dack or Tezz and will fight tooth and nail over Jace and then let you sneak in a real threat.
I stopped playing EE and Ratchet because I found that I was hurting myself as much if not more than my opponents when I played them for anything other than 1. Also I found when I was playing those cards I was often just using them as really bad sweepers that hurt me so I just decided that Toxic Deluge was performing the same functionality better over all. The only non creature permanents I feel we care about is Null Rod (EE and Ratchet don't do shit), Pithing Needle (we have so many things to needle and we are STILL a chalice deck), and sometimes Counter Balance can be annoying. So what exactly are we trying to Ratched or EE away at that point? Creatures? Deluge and Aether Grid do it better. Planeswalkers? I guess you could live the dream of getting an EE for 3 against an active Lili, or get a freebee Jace VP, but it's hell trying to get one to land against an Active Jace TMS (and getting to 4 colors can be difficult), and Ratchet bomb is just slow as molasses for anything over CMC 2 and can be played around or answered before it gets much higher. I could see possibly running these types of cards again with a second Academy Ruins or a good way to tutor for it so that it's easier for us to rebuild and can recur the effect but with a 1 of academy that can easily get wastelanded just doesn't seem worth it.
Last edited by Serj; 11-25-2015 at 10:32 PM.
I am taking this U/B Tezzerator list to legacy tomorrow:
Land (22)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Swamp
3x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of Whispers
Planeswalker (5)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Enchantment (1)
1x The Abyss
Artifact (14)
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Cranial Plating
3x Dimir Signet
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Mox Opal
3x Talisman of Dominance
Creature (9)
4x Baleful Strix
1x Etched Champion
4x Hangarback Walker
Instant (7)
4x Force of Will
3x Impulse
Sorcery (2)
2x Toxic Deluge
What's different
Beatdown over combo. No more sword combo. Going quick beatdown has been very effective. Last week I experimented with a cranial plating and it was fantastic. Many times I'd have a turn 1 Hangar back into turn 2 tezzeret making 6/6 hangarback and swing with a turn 3 artifact plating and equip on hangarback and swing.
Looking at more cards - I added 3 impulses to get more card selection and a JTMS for more card selection and alternate wincon. I feel he will really help in the long grindy games.
No transmute artifact - I removed the transmutes from the maindeck and SB. I would like to have 1 in the main deck to look for silver bullets.
Added an Etched Champion - I feel like he can really help with the beatdown plan and can negate opponents removal.
Added a Mox Opal - I took out a basic Island and added one Mox opal. I felt like this can help with ramp while adding to the overall artifact count.
The Sideboard
Sideboard
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Damnation
1x Dread of Night
1x Engineered Plague
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Helm of Obedience
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Lodestone Golem
1x Perish
1x Pithing Needle
1x The Abyss
1x Trinisphere
The sideboard is filled with hate. There is another Abyss, a dread of night, and an Engineered plague to hate on the board and hopefully build advantage over the course of the game.
Let me know what you guys think! Feel free to critique as hard as you want, it's how I learn.
- My Tournament Report -
I took this U/B Tezzeret list to Docking Bay today. I ended up doing pretty well so I didnt drop to commentate.
My third match was on stream today which you can see here , it starts around 1:48:30.
Round 1 - Sneak attack
This was a quick 2-0, Game 1 he played a show and tell revealing an emrakul and I revealed a The Abyss. Game two I had a chalice on 1 and swung with 5/5s
2-0, 1-0
Round 2 vs Storm
Game 1 I went on the aggro path quick preventing an adnauseum, Game 2 I had a turn 1 chalice on 1 and chalice on zero with a leyline of the void on the field.
4-0, 2-0
Round 3 vs Tezzerator (on stream)
I played my friend Ryan here who I have been consulting with about the build. Game 1 I mull to 5 :( and he lost, I took game 2 with a cranial plated Strix. Game 3 I misplayed by impusling with a tezz instead of using it as the tezz plus 1, The commentators confused some of the plays I made because they didnt see my hand. Ryan saw ALL of his forces and won with a sweet Tezz ultimate for like 28.
5-2, 2-1
Round 4 - 4C Punishing Loam
This is my worst matchup, they pull ahead with card advantage with Sylvan/Bobs, the wastelands hurt, and the abrupt decays on signets are worse. I sideboarded in ALL the hate and saw none of it. went 1-2
6-4, 2-2
Round 5 - Sneak n Show
Game 1 I resolved a Bridge which he had no answer for and won via Tezz ult. Game 2 I started with a quick lodestone, He played a show and tell and I revealed a bridge. A chalice came soon after and lodestone became a clock. 2-0
8-4, 3-2
I made top 8 in the 8th spot, there were 2 Tezzerators in the Top 8!
As fate would have it I played the same 4C loam deck and lost 0-2, such a bad matchup that I never really felt ahead at any point. 0-2
8-6, 3-3
Takeaways
Cranial Plating was great. I'm going to be cutting the etched champion and most likely the mox opal so I will have 2 more flex slots. Not sure about the Leyline/Helm package. Maybe adding misdirections can help the $C loam matchup
I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but having Thopter/Sword in your deck to fog your opponent's enormous knights and goyfs helps a lot with the 4C loam and other GBx matchups. That list you posted looks like you're trying to bridge the gap between the traditional UB lists of this deck and midrange-oriented Affinity. If you want to play with cards like Cranial Plating, it may be worth looking into running some cheaper creatures to equip it to and replacing Impulse with something like Thoughtcast.
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