Greetings All!
As I mentioned a week or two ago, I have been working on tempo oriented Vaporblade list. I ran it again this week at locals. I ended 2-0-1. I was awarded a bye, I 2-0ed High Tide and prize split with Affinity. However the Affinity player and I played it out and I took the match 2-1. Below you can see the list I was running. It is a little different from the list I proposed in my previous post. It ran pretty well and overall I was pleasantly surprised.
Maindeck-60
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Vapor Snag
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Tundra
2 Glacial Fortress
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
Sideboard-15
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
2 Disenchant
3 Jotan Grunt
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Submerge
Well this week we fired our tournament off with only 7 players. I was the lucky guy who got the Round 1 bye. this was good for rankings but poor if you are testing out a new deck...
Anyway in Round 2 I was paired against High Tide with Candles. Preboard the above list has 8 completely dead cards in StP and Vapor Snag. Also arguably SFM is a bit slow. I would be interested in hearing what other think on SFM in this match up. However my Game 1 opener was pretty nutty. It was 2 Delver, Brainstorm, Daze, FoW, and Tundra/Fetch. While my opponent cantripped to set up his hand, I played a Turn 1 delver, followed by a turn two delver. They both flipped due to an EOT Brainstorm. Then on my turn 3 I had found a Geist and third land. So I crashed for 6, and cast Geist. He was forced to go off here because he had fetched and Probed opting to pay life. He thought for a minute or two and scooped.
Sideboarding: -4 Vapor Snag, -4 StP, -2 SFM, -1Jitte; +3 Spell Pierce, +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Flusterstorm, +3 Jotan Grunt
I boarded in this way to improve my control elements while also quickening the clock. Jotan Grunts are poor in multiples, but if you can land him turn two, he is a lot more threatening than a SFM. Anyway, Game 2 I kept a bit of a loose hand. It was 3 land, delver, 2 Grunt, and Spell Pierce. I was on the draw and drew into a Snapcaster. I led with Delver into Grunt, the delver natural-flipping on turn two. My opponent got stuck on two land. This led to a weird scenario of the grunt not really being able to get much work done. He only got in for 4. But I guess that is better than SFM as the game ended on turn 7. I Snapcastered during my opponet's turn to flashback the spell pierce that has been previously used on a cantrip. The Delver and Snappy rode the rest of the way.
Round 3 against Affinity we decided to prize split and played the match out for some tokens (and in my case the experience). Game 1 I made a few really poor decisions based on when and which creatures to use my removal on. This led to my opponent's board being double Master of Etherium and like 7 artifact lands... yea that sucks.
Game 2 I brought in the 2 Disenchants and 1 Oblivion Ring for 3 of the 4 Dazes. While on the first or Second turn Daze can be great here, turn 2 or 3 on it become a near blank. If you think there will be a good amount of this in your meta you may want to devote a few more slots to it. This game my opener was 3 land, Delver, Disenchant, Geist, and a Vapor Snag. I led with the delver, which flipped on my next turn naturally. I attacked for 3 and played a second land, keeping up the disenchant for anything scary. My opponent really didn't do much this game. His turn one was like artifact land into double Menminte and a Springleaf Drum. His turn two was an Inkmoth Nexus and an attack for 2. My turn three was third land, attack for 3, Geist. My opponent cast Mox Opal and Thoughtcast, apparently blanking on the double draw. On my turn 4 I attack with both guys, and making an angel so for a total of 9 power. My opponent triple blocks the Geist with his Memnites and Inkmoth. This ended in a straight blowout. I Disenchanted the Nexus and Snagged a Memnite both pre-damage. He ended up taking 7 damage and the point of life loss from the Snag and losing two permanents. In his next turn, he surveyed the board and his hand for a few minutes and scooped. Apparently, Geist + Snag is pretty good at making people scoop.
Game 3 was absolutely nuts. I got turn 1 and 2 Galv Blasted quickly dropping my life total to 12. I did get a SFM and Jitte online quickly. However the gamestate at turn 4 was me with an face up delver, SFM with jitte and 2 counters at 9 life, to my opponent's 2 Memnites, and Etched Champion with 2 counters from a Ravager and him at 21. My opponent kept swinging with the 4 power, unblockable Champion hoping to topdeck another burn spell. I kept crashing with my Jitted SFM. The game ended with me at 1 life and 8 counters on the Jitte to my opponent's lone Champion and Artifact lands. I managed to sneak the game out.
Overall I think the list is pretty awesome. It can have fast explosive draws like RUG Delver but it can also grind better, like a Stoneblade list. I know it doesn't fill either role exactly as well as the aforementioned decks, but the ability of the deck to transition from tempo aggression to a midrangey strategy is pretty powerful. The adjustments to the mana base helped a lot. The deck doesn't really want to destroy opposing lands at the expense of its own, i.e. Wasteland. It really want to make land drops up to about 3 or 4, so it can cast Geist and Snapcaster its high impact spells. The sideboard might need a little bit of work. I think for Combo and graveyard decks the board is pretty great. However there are a few slots that I am not completely sure of. The Oblivion Ring and Disenchants might be iffy for a larger event but for the locals that I was playing in, there were great. I might try to work in an additional piece of Affinity love for locals next week, although I am not sure what it would be. I am open for suggestions.
As always, thanks for the reading. I would really like to get some feedback on my configuration, results, and sideboarding. So please, post your thoughts or shoot me a message!
Legacy
Grixis Delver
Vintage
Mono Mentor
Team Leovold
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
this is excellent, thanks for posting!
I'm particularly glad you had the guts to rotate your flex spot from a Sword to a Spell Pierce - I'm always tempted to run 3 equipment in a Stoneforge package, but I often think 2 is the right call and I struggle to do it. With that sad, did you ever want a 3rd Sword, and if so, which one (my default is Fire and Ice but again, I think that's nostalgia and I just force myself to believe its the best in an unknown meta). Was the Spell Pierce good, or was it more about opening up that 15th sideboard slot?
Also, did you find Swords to Plowshare anti-synergistic with the deck, and would Path to Exile have been better now that you aren't running Stifle and Wasteland?
This is actually a great question and it has a bit of a funny answer. So the original GP list has a Sword of Feast and Famine in the maindeck. I thought that I had one, but I must have traded/sold it at some point. So part of the reason that the SFM package was only 2 equipment was due to my collection missing that specific card. I think in an unknown metagame it is a toss up between Fire and Ice and Feast and Famine. This further comes down to what role you are playing in a given match up. I see SoFaI as more of an aggro card. It gives you the ability to clear the way for your guys/quicken your clock, while also giving you more options/threats. I see SoFaF as more of the mid-range grindy option. It lets you deny your opponent resources while letting you gain some incremental advantage by maximizing your mana usage. So analyzing your meta is probably the thing to do. If you think you are going to be the aggressor more often, then SoFaI is probably better. If you aren't the beatdown, then SoFaF is probably right. Additionally if you think you are going to see a lot of Goyfs... the pro-green is really a big deal.
As far as the Spell Pierce being good in the maindeck... that is kind of hard to determine, as it was a one-of. The only game where it really mattered was Game 2 versus High Tide. I cast and snap cast one. In Game 2 I had all 4 in the deck, so speaking to the relevance of the maindeck 1-of is rather difficult. I think having access to all 4 is probably necessary to give the deck some real hate for combo. As I mentioned in the report, decks like High Tide (ANT, Belcher, TES... etc) aren't the best Game 1, as the main has 8 dead or nearly dead cards. On this topic, I might try for a 3-2 Daze/Spell Pierce split in the future. This would be because Daze slows down your 2 and 3 drops/SFM activations.
That is a good question. In my specific meta it is probably right to play the Paths. As there are RUG, BUG, Sam Black Zombies and Affinity as the aggro decks. So the chances of them getting basics would be very low. In general I did not see the life gain as an issue. I guess it could be in some match ups... which might be a good argument to either run Path or run SoFaF with Swords since your games will probably be more attrition based.
Legacy
Vintage
Congrats on your finish.
I have a couple comments.
First off I think the Glacial Fortress is a really bad idea. I would put basics instead. I also think that the land count should go up to 20 and that you should run the Wastelands. Those are so good in tempo decks and you need them to screw long term grindy decks, especially PF Jund. It's especially important because everything you run dies to PF. Also with DRS, they can out speed you, especially on play in G2 or G3. Because of this, I think Spell Snare is better than Spell Pierce, not to mention hard counters rule.
What do you think of Geist? Personally I've never liked it but maybe you might think differently. I prefer Clique; it's seriously good against combo and kills Liliana and is so good when you need it.
Have you considered running 2 Jitte? Seriously this card gets blown up all the time so I don't feel ever having a 2nd is redundant. Not to mention you are more heavily reliant on equips in order for your creatures to stand up against other fast decks like TA or Jund. How is Batterskull working for you by the way?
Personally I prefer to have 3 Surgical Extractions because flashing them back with Snapcaster, nabbing a PF is just epic. Also I think Rest in Peace, despite not working well with Snapcaster, is worth a shot. It hoses GY based decks so bad and you aren't really reliant on the GY. I don't think you should run the Submerges in this deck if you have Vapor Snag and you don't have land denial.
As for the mana base and specific land decisions, initially I just ran the list that was as close to Fred Edelkamp's GP top 8 list. His version played 2 Glacial Fortress. There are a few very narrow reasons to play Glacial Fortress or Mystic Gate. The big one is Choke. Having a land that will still allow you to produce blue mana under a choke is pretty good. It is also a safeguard against having your Tundras Extracted. It is possible in the right type of meta, running more basics could be right; however, Fortress essentially lets you play 2 extra Tundras. If you are worried about getting Wasted out of the game, there are 4 basics in the list that can fetched out. So it easily possible to play around Wasteland.
As far as running Wasteland, I would like to work it into the deck. However when you are trying to get above 3 mana to cast Geist or Snapcast spells, wasteland sets you back in addition to setting your opponent back. I intend to look into this in my testing over the next few weeks. I agree that Wasteland is awesome but it is really taxing on this deck in ways it isn't in other tempo decks. Most other tempo decks don't have to get to 3 land, so running Wasteland is easy and powerful. Here it convolutes the manabase, making snapcasting difficult and potentially slowing down your board development.
As for Spell Pierce versus Spell Snare discussion, I think that comes down to your match up. Snare is pretty good versus Jund hitting Goyf, Confidant, Punishing Fire, and Hymn. That is a decent cross section of the deck; yet, it you are playing against RUG you have 4 targets, Tarmogoyf. If you are playing against High Tide you only have Merchant Scroll. So I am not totally sold one way or the other. I think that more testing is warranted to define the right balance for the counter package.
Here is the link to the GP coverage where this list Top 8ed.
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi...tl12/welcome#9
It really sounds like you have a Jund heavy meta. Geist puts on a much better clock than Clique in addition to being protected from most removal. That said, its lack of size can really make attacking hard in some situations. That is why SFM is pretty important. Using equipment or Vaporsnags to keep your Geist alive are very important. The tempo advantage on Snag is also awesome. I am inclined to think the Geist is correct, due to the speed of its clock.
Well again I have only been testing the deck for a few weeks. That said there are matchups where either equipment is just amazing. I don't think I want a second Jitte in the maindeck. Naturally drawing the equipment is super awkward. Running 2 in the main would increase that awkward draw chance while also creating narrow scenarios where you have both in hand. Jitte might deserve a slot in the sideboard for match ups where your opponent is also running a Jitte. I think that is where I would draw the line though.
This deck runs essentially 8 removal spells and Snapcasters so removing opposing treats is typically pretty easy to do. So other fast decks like TA or Jund should be reasonable.
Batterskull gives the deck a good way to grind out midrangey match ups and also a way to trump aggro decks. When it is good, it essentially wins you the game single handed. In some combo match ups like High Tide, it is just another beater. It isn't great but it isn't terrible. In match ups where your life total matters, save maybe the UW control decks, it is good to very good.
Again it sounds like your meta is all Punishing Jund. I haven't been able to get a good sampling against graveyard oriented strategies. Surgical is amazing especially in tandem with Snapcaster. However if your plan is to run both Surgical and Rest in Peace in a Snapcster deck, you are really setting your self up for some awkward spots. I ran RiP in my initial configuration and it was really good, but as it turns off your Snapcasters, you lose your ability to gain ground in the mid game due to rebuying draw/removal. If you bring in RiP in place of Snapcaster you fix this non-bo problem, but you lower your threat density. Snapcaster is no badass beater, but there are games that he clears the board and gets in for 6+ damage. So I will agree that there might need to be some tweaking done to the sideboard. I don't think RiP is the correct way to go.
As for Submerge, I think with the Jotan Grunts RUG and BUG should be reasonable. You are making their guys smaller and getting a pretty solid body. I need to work on those match ups post board a bit more. It might be true that Submerge could be cut; I haven't done enough testing yet to know.
Legacy
Vintage
I have been trying to think if there would be any cards that would be good additions to this deck/sideboard. Both Azorius Charm and Hindering Light seem like they could be useful. The charm gives us another cantrip in addition to a card that can serve the same role as Vapor Snag. We would lose the -1 point of life loss but would get to blank the next draw an opponent would get. I am not sure if that is worth the additional cost of. Hindering light is very intriguing. Legacy is all about spells that target either you or your creatures (StP, PtE, Lightning Bolt, Disfigure, Dismember, Discard, etc). So a two mana hard counter that let you draw a card seems really good. I might try testing out these over the next few weeks too. Thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Legacy
Vintage
I am back to report about this week's event. I ended (1-1-1). I lost to the mirror or UW Stoneblade not entirely sure what his deck was (0-2), beat Dredge (2-0), and drew with Soul Sisters (1-1-1). I am a little frusterated with these results. But that is the way cards works sometimes.
Mirror/UW Blade
My opponent won the die roll and chose to play. I had to ship back a one lander and go to six. The six was reasonable but I was quickly run over by a turn 1 delver naturally flipping, followed by a turn 2 delver (which also naturally flipped). I cast a SFM on my turn 2 which was FoWed, with an open mana on the other side of the table, invalidating my Daze. I did resolve a SFM on turn 3, but by this time I was too low on life and died a turn or two later. I think this game was a lost due to my opponent drawing hot and my draw being a little less than awesome. I wasn't able to hit any removal to slow his clock and by the time I got Batterskull in play, I was already netting a life loss of 2 per turn. In game 2, I kept what looked to be a reasonable hand, however, I never hit a third land. This became a large issue when my opponent cast a turn 3 Geist, which I was forced to FoW. I drew another blank, and he cast a second Geist on his turn 4. I finally hit my 3rd land and cast my Geist. At this point in the game we were both down to a card or two, and he was able to Snapcaster a Counterspell, to counter a SFM I cast. I drew dead the rest of the game and died due to a Snapcaster Mage. We played another game for fun. My deck actually behaved and I managed to win, so I guess I would chalk this specific match up to poor draws/luck, mine being not so good and my opponent's being pretty good.
Dredge
There isn't really much to say here. I got a quick Batterskull in both games. My opponent didn't really have super fast draws either game. A Batterskull and a SoFaF managed to keep me alive due to lifegain and untapping to be able to cast and Snapcast StP and PtE. I will note, that while the pro-black is awesome here, the opponent getting a discard is not so good.
Soul Sister's
The guy that plays this deck only occasionally shows up and either plays this deck or mono-red budget storm. At any rate Game 1, I got stuck on 2 lands and wasn't able to Snapcast any PtEs and died to Serra's Ascendant. Game 2 the deck cooperated and I was able to grind him out. I won on the backs of Batterskull and Jitte. These were both just devastating. Game 3 started on turns. So we ended up drawing. We actually played the game out though. I was really curious about the matchup and wanted a bit more experience. I was able to get an active Jitte in this game and it just took over the game. I was able to power through his guys and kill any scary threats. So this opponent and I both ended (1-1-1) and he ended up placing due to tiebreakers. I was a little bit salty as I did manage to beat him. But again sometimes that is how cards pans out... your opponent has a better draw or your games go too long.
So in overall observations, I tried out Path to Exile this week over Swords to Plowshares. I think it was the appropriate call for the meta as half (4/7) of the opposing decks don't have basics; however, I just got super lucky and got to play two of the deck that actually have basics. I have become less excited with Daze. This might be because the intrinsic flaw in running Path and Daze against decks with basics. However last week, I had found myself thinking that I wanted Spell Pierces. Vapor Snag was boarded out a good bit. It is really good when you are attacking with Geist, but otherwise is a little underpowered. It is possible that the snags could be changed to some combination of countermagic and removal. I think that there is an additional argument to be made for the 20th land. I would attribute two of my game losses to getting stuck at 2 lands and not being able to snapcast spells. I think the 20th land would help with this... however it would make the deck more prone to flooding. I think the trade off is probably worth it. The last thought I have would be I might need to quicken my play as I did go to time in the last round. That might due to my lack of familiarity with the deck, my opponent gaining a shitload of life, or maybe a combination of the two. As always thanks for reading!
Legacy
Vintage
While I was having decent results with this list above, I wanted a card with a bit more raw power than that of Vapor Snag. So I tried out Lightning Bolt in the Vapor Snag slot. I know that technically makes the list a UWr delver/blade deck. So I have included a link to my list and some thoughts on the deck in the appropriate thread.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post712441
Legacy
Vintage
Greetings All!
Here is a quick update on the changes I have made to the UW Delver list I have been playing. Enjoy!
Maindeck-60
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
1 Mana Leak
4 Force of Will
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull
2 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Tundra
2 Glacial Fortress
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
There is one card missing from the list if I counted correctly. I can't remember what it is offhand. Apparently it wasn't the important. So I guess it can be a flex slot.
Sideboard-15
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Path to Exile
2 Disenchant
2 Jotan Grunt
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Detention Sphere
1 Elspeth, Kinght-Errant
2 Supreme Verdict
We had 4 round last night. I went 3-1 and ended in 3rd place out of 12 players. I beat Esper Stoneblade twice (both 2-0) and Belcher (2-1), while losing to Jund (0-2).
Esper Stoneblade: 2-0
I won the die roll and got off to the ideal start landing turn one delver. It naturally flipped. On my turn two, I attacked for three then resolved a SFM and found Batterskull. These plays matched up with my opponent's turn one Ponder and turn two SFM, finding Batterskull. On my turn three, I attacked for 3 with Delver and cast Swords on the opposing SFM. On his turn, he cast Thoughtseize. I responded by putting Batterskull into play off of my SFM. I showed him my hand and he took a FoW. At this point I beat uncontested for 7 twice for game. Game 2 was very similar. He cast a turn 2 SFM, which I Swordsed. I then followed up with my own. Mine lived to cheat in Batterskull, which got to hit him a few times. The game ended with my board of Giest of Saint Traft with a Batterskull equipped to it to his board of a few Spirits.
Belcher: 2-1
I won the die roll and began with Island, I knew that this opponent was either on Dredge or Storm of some type. He drew and cast Chrome Mox imprinting a red card. He attempted to cast Rite of Flame which I Spell Pierced. He passed. I cast Delver with a fetch up. He drew and passed. Delver did not flip. I attacked for 1, played a plains, cast SFM, and found Batterskull (there is probably some argument here to get Sword of Feast and Famine). Batterskull will get the kill faster; however, SoFaF will limit opposing resources. Well anyway, he bricked for a few turns, Delver flipped, SFM got Batterskull in, and I smashed a bunch. Game two, I mulliganed to a mediocre 6. It had FoW blue card and Spell Pierce, but no pressure. I expended all of my counter magic before I could get a good clock established. He was able to go off a turn or two before I had lethal. Game 3 was very similar to game 1. I had a good mix of counter magic and threats. He succumbed to three flipped delvers... death by triple delver, bad way to go.
Jund: 0-2
I was on the play in game 1. I don't really remember how this first game played out exactly. I expended all of my cards to keep him off of the board. On turn 4 he cast his last card, Bloodbraid which cascaded into Goyf. My board was 5 lands and I hand a fetch in hand, so I scooped. I looked at my top cards... I should have played it out as the top was Giest followed by SFM. My opponent was at 10 life to my 19. So I likely could have taken a hit or two from these guys and still stabilized by playing Geist into SFM for Batterskull. Game 2 was terrible. I mulliganed a Plains only opener. I had a reasonable hand at 6. However it had no counter magic and I got Hymned on turn 2. At this point was was basically in top deck mode and was quickly out gunned.
Esper Stoneblade: 2-0
These two games were very similar to round 1. We both played SFMs. I removed his. Got to land Batterskull and rode that to victory. Giest was also a big player in the match as he was never able to effectively fight it. I played out other threats first to take care of his counter magic. Geist and Batterskull were able to just get there.
Overall the deck ran very well. I was happy with the 20 lands and higher basic count. I didn't play any Wasteland heavy decks but felt much better prepared for them. I think the Stoneblade match up is very favorable. At least that is the way it seems, I never really felt like I was behind. As fort he Jund match up, I think some dedicated sideboard hate might be necessary. I came to Celestial Purge as a good way to fight them. It kills Deathright, Bob, Liliana, and Bloodbraid. Leaving Goyf as the only other threat... StP and PtE answer him and the others fine also. This would just be a better way to fight them early and late game with SCM. Additionally Purge would be decent against Goblins and BUG. It would be perfect versus Goblins in that it exiles any target with no downside. Against BUG it hits Deathrite, Bob, Liliana, Tombstalker... the exact threats here are more nebulous as the variant would need to be defined. However there are other decks in my meta that Purge would also serve as a decent substitution. I would love to hear thoughts on this card choice specifically.
As always, thanks for the reading.
Legacy
Vintage
Nothing new. Been playing the UWr version recently. 8 ways to deal with DRS, Delver, among others, is great.
You don't need to quote a wall of text which was right above your post. This makes even less sense if you are not adding anything new to the discussion. Makes the life of readers/ lurkers / followers of the thread (like me) miserable. Thanks.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
::sarcasm:: Thank you for the constructive input.
Agreed. I was super excited that there was going to be some actual discussion here....
Legacy
Vintage
I appreciate your work, Sturtzilla.
I brought Fred Edelkamp's list to a tournament recently and I was quite pleased by how it played out.
Of course the Deck has its weaknesses but overall I enjoyed the concepts.
Some points from my side:
I played the original list except I swapped Paths for Swords x4.
In my opinion it was a bad call, because this deck really needs its clock and more often then not you cant afford to let your opponent gain, say, 10 life my removing multiple Goyfs.
It cost me the game against RUG Delver with my opponent left on 2 life, outclassing the race simply with Mongoose.
A cool play with Path could also be in a common situation where your Delver eats removal on Turn 2 and you cant answer it, that you Path your own Delver in response to stock up on lands to cast Geist earlier/safe trough daze. Since this deck doesnt pack so many counters at all, it could benefit from tricks like that.
Since we are not on the Temporoad, we couldn't care less about opponents getting basics instead of life in this regard. Need to try it before judging tough.
About the red splash.. Have you been real happy with it?
It doesn't really make sense to me to splash red just to swap Vapor Snag with Lightning Bolt.
Keep up the testing,
cheers
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
I have really like having the availability of both a removal spell and a card that can just close the game out. However this come at the price of destabilizing the mana base... making the deck weaker to Wasteland and maybe slightly more susceptible to Stifle. Red also gives you access to some very awesome Sideboard cards. Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Rough/Tumble, and Sulfur Elemental can all be amazing in certain MUs. So the red can be worth it. Vapor Snag is the very essence of Tempo. It gives you a brief board advantage. I found myself wanting a more permanent answer to troublesome (i.e. giest-blocking) creatures. For awhile I was running a 4-2 split of StP and PtE (I removed the 4 Vapor Snags). I then transitioned to a 3-3. I had pretty good results with both. It also opened up two flex slots. I experimented with extra land, another Snapcaster, and a few odds and ends depending on my perceived meta. Overall I think the deck is pretty decent either as UW or UWr. Keep me posted on your results.
Legacy
Vintage
The thing is, Vapor Snag has many advantages over bolt. I see bolt being good as a finisher especially with snapcaster, but IMO this fits in a U/R shell way better.I have really like having the availability of both a removal spell and a card that can just close the game out. However this come at the price of destabilizing the mana base... making the deck weaker to Wasteland and maybe slightly more susceptible to Stifle. Red also gives you access to some very awesome Sideboard cards. Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Rough/Tumble, and Sulfur Elemental can all be amazing in certain MUs. So the red can be worth it. Vapor Snag is the very essence of Tempo. It gives you a brief board advantage. I found myself wanting a more permanent answer to troublesome (i.e. giest-blocking) creatures. For awhile I was running a 4-2 split of StP and PtE (I removed the 4 Vapor Snags). I then transitioned to a 3-3. I had pretty good results with both. It also opened up two flex slots. I experimented with extra land, another Snapcaster, and a few odds and ends depending on my perceived meta. Overall I think the deck is pretty decent either as UW or UWr. Keep me posted on your results.
Vapor Snag doesn't kill things, but it acts as a main out to Reanimator and really troublesome creatures like Griselbrand, Kuldotha Forgemaster etc, and can be used to save your own creatures anytime.
Not to mention it can temporaly get rid of a big goyf or knight, while Bolt sits in your hand.
I'd like to improve the synergies with Snag and Karakas by adding 1 Vendilion Clique, replacing a Geist.
Seems solid to me to bounce their biggest creature with Submerge/Snag and Clique it away.
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
I agree that Vapor Snag does have a good amount of utility. It lacks staying power. For example in many fair match ups, if you bounce one of your opponent's guys you get a clear lane to attack through for likely only a turn, maybe two if you can Snapcaster it the following turn. This is good but outright removing the creature is often better. In these situations you really need to have a significant clock on your opponent. If you don't Snag loses a ton of value. I do like your proposal of bouncing an opposing threat with a Snag and the Cliquing it away. That seems pretty powerful.
Legacy
Vintage
So here is a variation of the UW tempo deck with red splash and an original Emrakul pack i would like to share with u. U will see how aethermage is better than show and tell...
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 geist or Vendilion Clique (to decide)
1 gilded drake
2 stoneforge mystic
Spells
3 AEthermage's Touch
3 enginnereed explosives
4 Brainstorm Buy
1 Dream Cache Buy
1 Erratic Explosion
2 Magma Jet
4 Swords to Plowshares
Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's jitte
Lands
1academy ruins
2 wasteland
2 island
1 karakas
4 volcanic islands
4 plateau
4 tundra
4 flooded strand
1 underground sea
Planeswalkers
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Last edited by guybrush3; 05-02-2013 at 10:41 AM.
First, do you mind to write the decklist properly? What the hell this:
academy ruins x1
wasteland x2
2 island
1 karakas
12 duals
5 fetches dual lands
means? ''5 fetches dual lands''?
Then, do you mind to explain what's going on in your deck (because honestly seems like you threw together 60 cards from your trade binder) what's the gameplan like?
Oh and why on earth would you post that in the UW tempo thread?
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
happy? ....
i posted it here cuz it ended to be a very similar uw tempo deck without counters and with an emrakul pack. I don't thing it need further explanations unless u are a complain guy like u are...
game plan is pretty much simpe as in uw tempo is -> kill with creatures,control your deck with draw mechanics,be fast,kill with swords and magma jet and cast emrakul via aethermage (like natural order+progenitus does in a bant deck) . The reason why i prefer to do this via aethermage is:
GOOD things :
AeT is istant,u can play it at your end step or during the opponents turn end step. It has the surprise effect since u don't have to wait 1 turn to get rid of summoning sickness. You don't need the creature card to be in your hand and that means having something else instead of that draw card.
SaT cost 2U and you will be able to attack on turn 4. You can also drop many things in a row
BAD things:
AeT cost 4 you will able to attack on turn 5. It has white in his cost. The creature returns to your hand at the end of the turn. The creature has to be in the top4 cards of your library
SaT is a sorcery. You have to protect it for one entire opponent turn from removal.Opponents can also cast fatties.The creature has to be in your hand.It costs a lot of money , rofl.
since aethermage needs library controlling support brainstorm and jace are very helpfull. Aethermage has also a good interaction with gilded drake.You steal it then gilded drake returns to your hand.A nice trick in case you want to double steal a creature to your opponent. Explosion allow you to do more direct damage like magma jet does but since the deck is all about controlling the library it will allow u also to blow your opponent with 15 damage if u place emrakul on top of it.Dream cache is a fifth brainstorm and less costing Jace,but less effective of course. It will ,like brainstorm, allow you to put back on the top of your deck emrakul in case you draw it. The point is to not have him in hand but to keep it there with brainstorms , dream cache,jace and sensei's. In the meanwhile u go aggressive with burn spells, nasty creatures and swords
Agreed. This list belongs in the New and Developmental Section. It does not appear to be tuned at all. You have a tempo game plan, a SFM package, and a combo all jammed into the same deck. It looks to me like you are going to get an awkward draw just about every time.... the deck needs 1 identity not 3.
Legacy
Vintage
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