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Thread: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

  1. #381
    MTGO Name: Adelorenzi
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    So I took the list above into a league and went 1-4, but then I switched out -1 Ancestral + 1 Sylvan Library and -1 FOW +1 Strix, it worked much better and I went 4-1 losing to UR Painter, beating UR Painter, Miracles, Grixis Delver, and Maverick.

  2. #382
    MTGO Name: Adelorenzi
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    4-1 in another league.

    Cephalid Breakfast: 1-0 (he timed out in g1)
    Miracles: 2-0
    Elves: 0-2
    Enchantress: 2-0
    Miracles: 2-1 (timed out g3)

    I am having great success beating Miracle game 1, losing game 2 in like 15 minutes, and then boarding in all removal for game 3 to stop a fast Mentor/Clique. Obviously the strategy only works online where the clock is a big factor, and I wouldn't recommend that strategy in paper, but it has been working out pretty well for me.

  3. #383

    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ironclad8690 View Post
    4-1 in another league.

    Cephalid Breakfast: 1-0 (he timed out in g1)
    Miracles: 2-0
    Elves: 0-2
    Enchantress: 2-0
    Miracles: 2-1 (timed out g3)

    I am having great success beating Miracle game 1, losing game 2 in like 15 minutes, and then boarding in all removal for game 3 to stop a fast Mentor/Clique. Obviously the strategy only works online where the clock is a big factor, and I wouldn't recommend that strategy in paper, but it has been working out pretty well for me.
    My buddy saw your list online so I'm going to put the cards together for him this week to play at our FNM.

    What is your latest and greatest list?

    My local meta is mostly stoneforge decks (D&T, Mavrick, Esper Stoneblade), some elves and burn.

  4. #384
    MTGO Name: Adelorenzi
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    In your metagame I would play this:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Shardless Agent
    2 Baleful Strix
    2 Bloodbraid Elf
    16

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Lightning Bolt
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Punishing Fire
    3 Ancestral Vision
    3 Force of Will
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    21

    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou
    1 Badlands
    1 Volcanic Island
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    10 Fetchlands
    3 Wasteland
    23

    Sideboard:
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Null Rod
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
    1 Force of Will
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Duress
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Zuran Orb

  5. #385
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    For all those that play this deck, has anyone else had amazing success with a singleton Arlinn Kord. I have the opportunity to play Guided Jund Saturday at a legacy challenge event and Arlinn turned out to be better than I thought it was going to be.

    - Miracles conceded when it landed in play: made a wolf, bolted them, made a wolf.
    - With a TNN in play the turn before, I was able to reduce the time to kill using Arlinn by 2 turns.
    - I haven't lived the dream yet, but you should be able to set up a bloodbraid into tarmogyf, plus Arlinn on goyf and swing for around 9-12 damage out of nowhere. It also keeps the goyf back on defense to protect her.

    I was prepared to go to Sunday's SCG Classic, but got stuck in traffic due to a marathon/walk outside the event. Made it there 10 minutes after then event started. Arghhh....

  6. #386

    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    If the deck looks like I went through a trade binder and pulled out things that looking fun and that I wanted to play, that's because I did that exact thing. I know the list isn't optimal, but I just wanted to have fun riding the train to value town!

    Creatures
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Shardless Agent
    3 Bloodbraid Elf
    2 Baleful Strix
    1 Jori En, Ruin Diver
    1 Tireless Tracker

    Spells
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Ancestral Vision
    2 Punishing Fire
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Standstill
    1 Kolagahn's Command

    Lands
    1x Treetop Village
    1x Creeping Tar Pit
    1x Raging Ravine
    1x River of Tears
    2x Grove of the Burnwillows
    2x Volcanic Island
    2x Tropical Island
    2x Underground Sea
    1x Badlands
    1x Bayou
    3x Scalding Tarn
    2x Polluted Delta
    3x Misty Rainforest

    Went 3-0-1 in a local event, beating Miracles, Grixis Delver, and Eldrazi, drawing due to time with Jund. Deck is really fun. Highlights include Toxic Deluge to wipe the board and then turn after went Bloodbraid into Shardless into Goyf. Other times BBE into Shardless into Deathrite.

    I'm sure I'd just auto-lose to Storm and Belcher, but those decks are rare in the local meta. Going to try the Meddling Mage sideboard for a GPT this weekend.

    I'm pulling out some suboptimal pieces, like Treetop Village, Kolagahn's Command, and Tireless Tracker, going up to full 4 each of Abrupt Decay and Ancestral Vision.

  7. #387
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Quote Originally Posted by maCHOOga View Post
    For all those that play this deck, has anyone else had amazing success with a singleton Arlinn Kord. I have the opportunity to play Guided Jund Saturday at a legacy challenge event and Arlinn turned out to be better than I thought it was going to be.

    - Miracles conceded when it landed in play: made a wolf, bolted them, made a wolf.
    - With a TNN in play the turn before, I was able to reduce the time to kill using Arlinn by 2 turns.
    - I haven't lived the dream yet, but you should be able to set up a bloodbraid into tarmogyf, plus Arlinn on goyf and swing for around 9-12 damage out of nowhere. It also keeps the goyf back on defense to protect her.

    I was prepared to go to Sunday's SCG Classic, but got stuck in traffic due to a marathon/walk outside the event. Made it there 10 minutes after then event started. Arghhh....
    does this mean with the planeswalker when it landed in play you did this all in 1 turn? or this was over the course of 3 turns?
    -rob

  8. #388
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ironclad8690 View Post
    In your metagame I would play this:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Shardless Agent
    2 Baleful Strix
    2 Bloodbraid Elf
    16

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Lightning Bolt
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Punishing Fire
    3 Ancestral Vision
    3 Force of Will
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    21

    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou
    1 Badlands
    1 Volcanic Island
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    10 Fetchlands
    3 Wasteland
    23

    Sideboard:
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Null Rod
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
    1 Force of Will
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Duress
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Thoughtseize
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Zuran Orb
    What are you playing now? It seems well positioned for the current metagame.

  9. #389
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    So my friend spiked an IQ with this:

    Waterfalls

    Creatures: 18
    2 Baleful Strix
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Bloodbraid Elf
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Shardless Agent

    Planeswalkers: 1
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    Spells: 19
    2 Lightning Bolt
    3 Punishing Fire
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Ancestral Vision
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will

    Lands: 22
    1 Forest
    1 Island
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Bayou
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Tropical Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest

    Sideboard: 15
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Grafdigger’s Cage
    2 Blood Moon

    Not sure on the sideboard though, it was literally things I just had on me. I want to fit 3 Thoughtseize in probably?

  10. #390

    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Quote Originally Posted by HSCK View Post
    So my friend spiked an IQ with this:

    Waterfalls

    Not sure on the sideboard though, it was literally things I just had on me. I want to fit 3 Thoughtseize in probably?
    I boarded 6 discard (3 thoughtseize, 2 duress, and a cabal therapy) last time I played the deck and liked it pretty well, especially over the counters, since they play into the tap-out style better.

    Maindeck looks very solid. I would probably cut the 3rd Sea for a Badlands - half your black cards are UB, so Sea can make for awkward early fetching/drops, and Badlands is really nice to fetch opposite Trop or basics to have all your colors. It doesn't come up too often that you get mana-constrained with Grove, but access to more red sources are nice when it does happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac View Post
    I've goldfished with Doomsday decks about twenty times and I still haven't won a game yet.

  11. #391
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    I've definitely thought of more red sources. I think I actually switched out a Trop for a Taiga and forgot to update my decklist before posting. I'm going to play 3 Thoughtseize and a Toxic Deluge over 2 Flusterstorm, Loam, and one Clique. You should stop by the Bant thread too.

  12. #392

    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    What do you guys think about Guided Passage? It's almost like the second Ancestral.

    Thoughts on Temur Charm? It seems that if the deck wants to play cheaper counter magic it only has Izzet Charm and Temur Charm as it's possible spells.

    Should the deck play a Raging Ravine or Lumbering Falls? Considering the density of creatures I doubt it would need help in that department but if the removal is heavy then I could imagine that they could act as back up after getting Terminused.

  13. #393
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    There's a Guided Passage version I've tried that was just a bit too clunky, no Shardless, no AV, 4 BBE, 3 Ponder, 3 Passage. I would never want to cascade into Temur Charm with BBE and it's just too expensive for what you get.

  14. #394
    MTGO Name: Adelorenzi
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Just went 4-1 in a league with this list:

    Food Chain: 2-1
    Death and Taxes: 1-2
    Grixis Delver: 2-0
    UR Delver: 2-1
    BR Reanimator: 2-0

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Shardless Agent
    3 Baleful Strix
    2 Bloodbraid Elf

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Abrupt Decay
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    3 Ancestral Vision
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Bayou
    1 Taiga
    1 Badlands
    1 Volcanic Island
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Misty Rainforest
    3 Wasteland
    1 Creeping Tar Pit

    Sideboard
    3 Meddling Mage
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Null Rod
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Scrubland
    2 Pyroblast

    I think cascade is well positioned now because of it's strength vs both Miracles and Eldrazi, and Delver being close to 50/50 (maybe slightly more favorable). Combo matchups are generally weak, but GY based are always beatable with Shaman.

  15. #395
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Anybody appreciates Clique over TNN/Strix? I like how Clique adds to our disruption while also fitting the Cascade and beatdown plan. I also really like Strix for Eldrazi but I find it difficult to splash that much Black as to force UB on T2. I would be comfortable running something like 3 Thoughtseize, 4 FoW, and 2 Cliques as mainboard disruption if the manabase allows.

    @Ironclad,

    How is your manabase with 2 Bayou? Is the lack of basic lands a concession to Strix? I play as many black cards as you but I managed to keep the two basics in against Lands and Price.

    My list is very similar to yours since the printing of Leovold. I find Leovold to be the Meddling Mage we needed to pair with discard spells. Discard + no cantrip is a strong way to disrupt every combo deck we struggle with (Elves, Storm, SnT). The biggest difference between our lists I think is that I play 3 Thoughtseize main over Strix, and 2 Nemesis over 4th Decay and Pulse. I can see how these differences force you to play more dual lands as the color requirements of your cards are higher.

    I have also moved away from Null Rod in favor of Jitte now that I have more hatebears against combo. Rakdos Charm has replaced Ancient Grudge for me as well because having more GY hate was more important than doubling up on artifact removal.

    Combo decks have improved but Lands is still terrible...

    Here's what I've been up to:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Shardless Agent
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Bloodbraid Elf

    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Abrupt Decay

    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Ancestral Visions

    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    3 Wasteland
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Taiga
    1 Badlands
    1 Island
    1 Forest
    //SB
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    3 Meddling Mage
    3 Duress
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Tundra
    Last edited by Qweerios; 10-25-2016 at 03:48 PM.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  16. #396
    MTGO Name: Adelorenzi
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    I dunno, I have just always liked bayou and the "full greed route". Speaking of which:



    Maybe in the 3rd strix or 2nd bloodbraid slot

  17. #397
    Joe Cool Above All
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    I definitely want to try that as a one-of.

  18. #398
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Unfortunately I don't think Yidris is remotely as good as bloodbraid.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  19. #399

    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Anyone been playing this lately? I'm considering running it at the Louisville GP and am interested in any initial thoughts on how it's positioned at the moment (and P. Fire vs. without).
    I'm going in assuming that (1) in longer tournaments, later rounds will see fewer fast combo decks, so if you can start off okay (or get byes), fair trump decks do well, (2) the deck isn't one of the very best, but is reasonably strong in most fair match-ups, but (3) it's super fun, and I'd rather lose than be bored at a long tournament...
    Quote Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac View Post
    I've goldfished with Doomsday decks about twenty times and I still haven't won a game yet.

  20. #400

    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Quote Originally Posted by anwei View Post
    Anyone been playing this lately? I'm considering running it at the Louisville GP and am interested in any initial thoughts on how it's positioned at the moment (and P. Fire vs. without).
    I'm going in assuming that (1) in longer tournaments, later rounds will see fewer fast combo decks, so if you can start off okay (or get byes), fair trump decks do well, (2) the deck isn't one of the very best, but is reasonably strong in most fair match-ups, but (3) it's super fun, and I'd rather lose than be bored at a long tournament...
    No matter how far into the tournament you get you'll still face the blisteringly fast BR Reanimator. I would be surprised if at least one copy didn't make top 8. I would not recommend this deck if you want to reasonably try to do well. If you just want to have fun, though, go for it. No better choice.

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