Counterspell is too slow for this deck. Even miracles, a control deck plays a maybe 1-of. Leaving uu up instead of pressuring the board position or disrupting their mana is not worth just countering 1 thing.
Might I suggest disrupt for a “ah-HA” moment? Draws you a card too. Otherwise, spell pierce and spell snare are my usual go-tos.
Also, one I’ve tested for another shell is unsubstantiate. Half-unsummon, half-remand.
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Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer
I'm pretty sure Spell Pierce should be at 2-3 before considering the first Counterspell, even in mono-blue. Stack interaction is already at a premium, what the deck lacks is ways of dealing with resolved problems.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer
Blink of an Eye might be solid here as 1-2 of. It can deal with resolved problems, and midgame, it also cantrips as well (like Remand). If the permanent you bounce has a high cc that they will have to pay for again, you gain a huge amount of tempo without any card disadvantage.
Is there any difference to into the roil?
Either way, 4 mana is way too much even for the draw a card effect. We want max 3 lands in play, and the other lands in hand to shuffle away to brainstorm.
I’d rather be looking at options like wipe away for chalices and counterbalance, and probably trickbind for stifles 5-8. Aggressive stifling can work as a time walk quite often. The tempo gained is massive.
I think our goal is to end the game with a flipped delver, 1 island and a wasteland in play, 1 counter in hand and the opponent with an empty board, a massive grip and 0 life. Anything that needs 3+ mana really needs to be an instant game-ender or really pull you from the brink to nearly win (TNN and SCM+brainstorm et al comes to mind).
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Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer
Like FTW suggested, building around Thing in the Ice makes the most sense, especially if you’re expecting to face a mostly fair meta where a 0/4 wall turn two isnt bad.
FTW suggested the below list, which I put together over the weekend and it works very well.
//Creatures: 12
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Thing in the Ice
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True Name Nemesis
//Enchanments: 3
3 Back to Basics
//Spells: 27
4 Force of Will
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Daze
3 Vapor Snag
3 Dismember
1 Spell Snare
//Lands: 18
4 Wasteland
14 Island
//Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Echoing Truth
3 Propaganda
I’m impressed FTW. Thanks for your suggestions.
I was testeing some thing very similar to the follow list some months ago and it was working good.
It is to be played quite aggressively.
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Temporal Mastery
4 Delver of Secrets
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Walking Ballista
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Disrupt
1 Misdirection
1 Basilisk Collar
3 Vapor Snag
2 Dismember
1 Psionic Blast
That's a pretty cool list! I would want to jam Dreadnoughts though.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Might seem like a newbie question, but what’s the basilisk collar doing? Long game? Wouldn’t jitte or sword of red and blue be better for that?
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Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer
The new blue guy seems like a solid addition to the deck. It’s a flying 5/5 gurmag angler that pitches to FoW and also isn’t bad in multiples the way Angler is...
U
Creature — Salamander Drake
Flying
7{U}:Adapt 4.This ability costs {1} less to activate for each instant and sorcery card in your graveyard.
1/1
It even comes down as a 1/1 flyer on turn one to ping for damage starting turn one which neither Angler nor Cryptic Serpent could do. So it’s not bad in the opening hand.
Likewise it’s a great top deck unlike Thing in the Ice.
And you can even adapt at the end of your opponents turn so you can hold up mana for counterspells unlike TNN which required tapping out.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Salmander Drake
35 Instants/Sorceries
17 Island
Seems like a very solid build for the deck, and competitive with multicolor Delver decks.
—————
It’s better than Angler and Cryptic Serpent in that it has evasion and it’s solid in your opening hand and a solid turn one play.
It’s also better than Angler in that it’s perfectly fine in multiples.
It’s better than Thing in the Ice in that it’s a great top deck Midgame.
It’s better than True Name Nemesis in that it doesn’t require you to tap out. You can hold up mana for countermagic and adapt it at the end of your opponents turn.
The card it’s most comparable to is Nimble Mongoose. Like mongoose it’s a decent turn one play and a decent mid game play and never requires you to tap out. The difference is that it’s way bigger and flys. Well worth the lack of shroud.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 01-08-2019 at 12:07 AM.
This is where I'm starting:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Winged Salamander
4x Cryptic Serpent
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Brainstorm
4x Thought Scour
2x Ponder
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Stifle
2x Spell Pierce
4x Vapor Snag
4x Wasteland
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
6x Island
Psionic Blast, Dismember, Temporal Mastery, and Echoing Truth are all on my testing list as well.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
You have no reason not to run TNN, also as i suggested in the other thread you could try mental note.
Lastly, you definitely should run the full set of ponder
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
Cool feedback. Mental Note seems pretty cool; replacing Thought Scour or in addition? I crammed in 10 cantrips already, 2 more ponder makes 12. I guess leaning on Thought Scour milling is a little iffy, maybe swap the counts to 4 Ponder/2 Scour. My thinking was that Thought Scour has additional utility by hitting opponents while mental note can only hit my own library.
TNN seems fine and all, but I'm not sure about the 3 mana. I know it should be fine with 18 lands + 12 cantrips, I was just trying to avoid anything above 2 functional mana (besides Snapcaster.) I went for Dr. Obvious Snappy with Thought Scour synergy. I wish I could build this without TNN, but I think reality will tell me otherwise. It's the best blue threat.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Surely scour is just a better version of note, so you should the full set of scour before even considering note.
TNN should be just better than snapcaster in this deck anyway, forcing your opponent to have an answer for it could be beneficial given that you are not running other creatures soft to -1/-1, and you likely need some good beaters for the miracle MU, your actual creature pool gets demolished by 3 snap 4 stp 4 reb, nemesis at least requires reb on cast or terminus/council's.
As a note, you definitely need a solid amount of beb/fluster, this list is ruper soft to reb as I said.
Changes i would make
-2 snap
-0/1 serpent (could be too heavy to run 8 cards that absolutely need 5/6 spells to be relevant)
+2/3 Nemesis
-1/2 Scour
-0/1/2 pierce
+2 ponder
+0/1 dismember
sb must have
2/3 beb
2/3 flusterstorm
0/1/2 vendilion
2/3 gy hate
1/2/3 b2b
0/1/2/3 submerge/dismember/pongify/unsubstantiate
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
All good points. Flusterstorm is definitely on my list for the sideboard. In regards to Terminus, I don't think it's unreasonable to have Thought Scour be a counter to it. It should be pretty obvious when my opponent is going to trigger it on my turn (brainstorm or Portent trigger) and I can respond to the them on the stack with Thought Scour. Not a perfect answer, but decent.
Here is my rough sideboard:
2x Surgical Extraction (Reanimator, Lands, Dredge, Storm)
1x Tormod's Crypt (Reanimator, Lands, Dredge, Storm)
2x Dismember (Eldrazi, Death and Taxes, Delver mirrors)
3x Winter Orb (Miracles, Grixis Control, Lands)
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Flusterstorm (Miracles, Grixis Control)
1x Echoing Truth (Chalice, Ensnaring Bridge
2x Sower of Temptation (Show and Tell, Eldrazi)
Maindeck I will start with this (small changes based on your feedback):
4x Delver of Secrets
4x (New Salamander)
3x Cryptic Serpent
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Thought Scour
4x Stifle
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
1x Spell Pierce
4x Vapor Snag
4x Wasteland
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
6x Island
I don't have TNN's at the moment, but I should be able to pick them up pretty easy. Until then I'll just jam snapcasters. Vapor Snag, Snap, Vapor Snag is pretty great when racing. Snag on Snapcaster to rebuy it isn't terrible either. I'm also debating going to 17 lands, but I worry that it will be just a little too greedy. Back to Basics is definitely better than Winter Orb, but I think it will serve much the same function at 2 mana instead of 3. It isn't a permanent effect by any means, but again, I have the Orbs and I need to pick up the BtB's.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I would recommend this as the test build to figure out which cards will best synergize with this strategy...
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Flying Salamander
1 Cryptic Serpent
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Back to Basics
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Thought Scour
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Preordain
1 Vapor Snag
1 Dismember
1 Snap
1 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
1 Mental Note
4 Wasteland
14 Island/Fetchlands
I think that list includes every single card that might be worth playing in this deck.
Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer
How Flying Salamander is better than Jace's Phantasm ?
Both require to play 4X Thought Scour
Before turn 4 it is quite impossible for both of them to become 5/5.
Let analyse the pros and cons of both.
- Flying Salamander requires spending mana to level up
- Jace's Phantasm do not require mana
- Flying Salamander can be bolted in response to level upping and the ability can be stifled
- Jace's Phantasm becoming 5/5 is a static ability
- Thought Scour your opponent is usually more interesting than yourself
(even at the end of turn 1 to understand what is your opponent playing)
I vote for Jace's Phantasm, even if the difference is quite small.
Do you think Flying Salamander is faster than Jace's Phantasm to "level up" ?
In any case, in order to let thim being useful in the first turns, I would add a couple of Ninja of the Deep Hours ... something similar to these lists
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=9037&iddeck=66022
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11599&iddeck=84889
.... but with 4 True-Name Nemesis (too strong not to play) and some Walking Ballistas (very strong too and versatile) that didn't exist at the time of the lists linked just above
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