Opponent miscounting Life in my favor

[Köffaß]

Hi folks,


I have a question about my opponent miscounting my life in my favor. Let's say I'm on 14 life, he deals 3 damage to me and says something like "You'll go down to 13." Do I need to correct him anytime about my actual life?

Another scenario: If I'm actually dead and not on 2 life like he says, I have to tell him, right?

Thanks for your answer!

[lochlan]

Yes, and if you don't correct him it's cheating.

[Esper3k]

Yes, you need to correct him. If you don't, it's cheating (you're knowingly misleading your opponent on public information). Judges, please confirm?

[Julian23]

You cannot misrepresent the gamestate. Even if you just realize that the two of you are taking different notes about life totals, you have to verify the gamestate with your opponent. Maybe you've got the life totals incorrect, who's to decide? The sooner you clarify things the better.

If you try to "milk" your "advantage" by waiting until the last possible moment, your "advantage" might have turned into an actual disadvantage when the judge rules in your opponents favor because it's no longer possible to tell which one of you is right....which might have still been possible 5 turns ago.


Needless to say, you should verbally communication everything non-trivial you're doing.

[TsumiBand]

This is why I can't stand it when people assume one person is tracking life totals for any given situation; 1v1, multiplayer, whatever. At the very least, like, in a game of EDH (unsanctioned play obv), it is that damned big a deal to have a method of tracking life?

Can I add to this discussion by asking; let's say I'm at a sanctioned event (call it a prerelease, if it matters a damn) and my opponent sees that I have a pad or a pair of d10s for tracking my own life and then refuses to keep track other than mentally, or doesn't announce changes to their life total with a specific number. For my part, I was brought up in the game to at least acknowledge the end of combat or the resolution of a spell/ability that would change my life total by stating life total at the end of combat/resolution/whatever. How that isn't just a standard, simple method of acknowledging game actions that everyone "just does" is beyond me; but in a sanctioned setting, am I able to fault my opponent for refusing to take responsibility for the game-state? Or is it only if it proves to be an issue over the course of the match?

[Arsenal]

I'm fairly certain that your opponent is required to have some method of tracking his own life total (dice, pen & paper, etc). Failure to have a method other than "I'll remember it in my head" would elicit a quick "JUDGE!" call from me.

[Tammit67]

Yes, you need to correct him. If you don't, it's cheating (you're knowingly misleading your opponent on public information). Judges, please confirm?

This is the exact thing Jackie Lee got DQ'd on at the RtR Pro tour. You have to rectify any discrepancy you notice with regards to life totals

[Koby]

Tournament expectations for players: [MTR]

A player must bring the following items to a tournament in order to participate:

• A physical, visible, and reliable method to maintain and record game information (tokens, score
  counters, pen and paper, and so on).
• A valid DCI membership number registered in the participant’s name. New players may register for
  DCI membership when enrolling in the tournament.
• Any materials specifically required for a particular tournament format, such as assembled decks
  and/or decklists for constructed tournaments.

[Julian23]

What is a score counter supposed to be? Like in Street Fighter, whoever first scores two blue orbs (aka score counters) wins the bo3? :P

[Koby]

What is a score counter supposed to be? Like in Street Fighter, whoever first scores two blue orbs (aka score counters) wins the bo3? :P

Man IDK, I don't write this bullshit. We all know WotC has some primo grass in its R&D Lair.

[danyul]

Here's a puzzle (kinda) -

I am playing the control mirror. I'm keeping life totals with a pen and pad, verbally confirming as we go. My opponent is keeping track in his head.

I cast a Vendilion Clique on his EOT. He is at 2. I have the 2 clearly noted on my piece of paper. He stares at it. Tanks. Then says "Well, I'm at 1 so this Force of Will is useless. I concede."

Do I have to tell him he can Force my Clique?

[Malchar]

Here's my philosophy:

I didn't invest thousands of dollars into a card game so that I could get free game wins because my opponent has a false impression of basic game information. I prefer playing the game when both players are at their best, and I try to do as much as I can to make that possible. If you're ever going to min-max to such an extreme degree that you're willing to act immorally or have bad sportsmanship while still technically not cheating, then you should probably reevaluate all the time, money, and effort that you're putting into this card game.

On the question:

Your opponent isn't allowed to keep track of their life total in their head. If you really want to follow the rules, you should call a judge when the game starts. Anyway, if your opponent says that their life total is something that you disagree with, then you have to work that out immediately. You don't have to tell them whether or not they can cast particular spells though. However, your opponent is also allowed to concede at any time.

[cdr]

If you ever notice a discrepancy in life totals, whether written or verbal, you are required by the rules to immediately resolve it. Not doing so, especially to your advantage, is Cheating. Deliberately not resolving a life total discrepancy is what got Jackie Lee DQed from PT RTR.

If your opponent says "I'm at 1" and you don't think he's at 1, you have to immediately fix that.

Players are technically required to physically track life, and doing so will help you in a dispute, but there's no penalty for not doing so.

[Arsenal]

Players are technically required to physically track life, and doing so will help you in a dispute, but there's no penalty for not doing so.

If they're required to physically track life totals (pen & paper, d20, etc), but there's no penalty for not doing so, doesn't this contradict the requirement? I mean, if I call a Judge over because my opponent doesn't have a method of tracking life other than in his head, and the judge says "please use a physical method of life tracking" and the player says "NO", you're saying there's no penalty to that player and he can just continue to mentally track life?

[cdr]

If they're required to physically track life totals (pen & paper, d20, etc), but there's no penalty for not doing so, doesn't this contradict the requirement? I mean, if I call a Judge over because my opponent doesn't have a method of tracking life other than in his head, and the judge says "please use a physical method of life tracking" and the player says "NO", you're saying there's no penalty to that player and he can just continue to mentally track life?

There's lots of rules in the MTR that have no IPG infraction because they're minor things. There is, however, an infraction for not following the direct instructions of a judge - that's Unsporting Major, a game loss. If you break a minor rule, a judge will ask you to follow the rule. If you outright refuse, you will not be in the tournament long.

[Julian23]

The penalty is the judge ruling in favor of your opponent in case of a dispute. I'd feel really shitty not tracking my life at an important tournament, knowing that I estimate 95% of judges would in doubt rather side with the player who had taken notes.

[Viridia]

The penalty is the judge ruling in favor of your opponent in case of a dispute. I'd feel really shitty not tracking my life at an important tournament, knowing that I estimate 95% of judges would in doubt rather side with the player who had taken notes.

This is also the reason why i always tell people to write down what is called with Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker, because if you don't and at some point someone says it's on something else than you thought, who's side will the Judge pick? ;)

[TraxDaMax]

Man IDK, I don't write this bullshit. We all know WotC has some primo grass in its R&D Lair.

sigquote GG



Anyways,

definately cheating and douchy as hell.

[feline]

Every time a Life total changes on either side I always say "so I'm at ## correct?" or "Ok combat damage in, I have you at ## correct?"

One person expressed to me that they didn't like that I said that all the time, but it's a habit I purposely got myself into a while ago since it means it can prevent any issues, always writing down & verbally confirming with the other play every single time there's a change, as long as both sides are honest then, there are never any issues here.

[SpikeyMikey]

There's lots of rules in the MTR that have no IPG infraction because they're minor things. There is, however, an infraction for not following the direct instructions of a judge - that's Unsporting Major, a game loss. If you break a minor rule, a judge will ask you to follow the rule. If you outright refuse, you will not be in the tournament long.

This.

This is really important. Important enough that it bears repeating. While most players are respectful enough of judges to do what they're told, there are serious consequences for failing to follow directions. I don't think most players realize this. Additionally, there are penalties for failing to follow general announcements. It's only a warning, but you still want to take care to follow all directions. This would include not smoking in designated no smoking areas, not selling cards on the floor, etc. Anything that's announced by the Head Judge over the microphone is going to be a general announcement, as are any signs posted. Instructions may vary from tournament to tournament, but they all count as general announcements.