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Thread: Ixalan [XLN]

  1. #461
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    If you double up on Approach the Second Sun with Sunbird's Invocation that should work.
    Approach of the Second Sun

    It must be cast from your hand if you want to win the game.

  2. #462
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Approach of the Second Sun

    It must be cast from your hand if you want to win the game.
    Cast Approach, Sunbird triggers. Sunbird trigger resolves and gives you another Approach. You cast the Sunbirded Approach. Now your original Approach resolves. Checks to see if another Approach's been cast, yup sure enough, have I been cast from hand? Mhm. Guess that's GG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  3. #463
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Cast Approach, Sunbird triggers. Sunbird trigger resolves and gives you another Approach. You cast the Sunbirded Approach. Now your original Approach resolves. Checks to see if another Approach's been cast, yup sure enough, have I been cast from hand? Mhm. Guess that's GG.
    Well, I guess that works, but doesn't it require you to have an Approach in your top 7 since the original isn't put back yet?

  4. #464

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Well, I guess that works, but doesn't it require you to have an Approach in your top 7 since the original isn't put back yet?
    Yes it does. It's a silly thing to try for.

  5. #465
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    What I'm really interested about is how the combination of Spyglass + Field of Ruin is going to change Stompy decks.

    Spyglass can take care of fetchlands/DRS to increase the mana denial potential while Field of Ruin picks off nasty utility lands or duals after jamming their only fetches sounds great. Sol Land, T1 Spyglass, jam fetches, T2 Field of Ruin, nuke their nonbasic.

    Being able to "waste" while you protect yourself from opposing Wastelands is another scenario that is likely to come up quite often.

  6. #466

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Would Second Sun work with Primal Amulet's flipped side? Not sure if the copy is cast or not.

    Probably not since looks like the same effect as Shattering Spree...

    Edit: Apparently that question is what started this discussion last page, haha.

    Field of Ruin is interesting cause it lets Stompy decks not miss a land drop, but seems like the drawback of having the opponent grab a basic is pretty high, even as a one-of. Especially when you burned Spyglass to shut down their fetchland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
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  7. #467

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Well, I guess that works, but doesn't it require you to have an Approach in your top 7 since the original isn't put back yet?
    Memory Lapse with that combo is pretty comical.

  8. #468
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    Memory Lapse with that combo is pretty comical.
    Both Memory Lapse and Remand would probably work in some kind Modern shell, although 9 mana is astronomical for that format.

  9. #469

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Both Memory Lapse and Remand would probably work in some kind Modern shell, although 9 mana is astronomical for that format.
    I like it as an instant-win combo variant of UR Storm, so you also have hte cost-reducers in Baral and Electromancer.

  10. #470
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    What I'm really interested about is how the combination of Spyglass + Field of Ruin is going to change Stompy decks.

    Spyglass can take care of fetchlands/DRS to increase the mana denial potential while Field of Ruin picks off nasty utility lands or duals after jamming their only fetches sounds great. Sol Land, T1 Spyglass, jam fetches, T2 Field of Ruin, nuke their nonbasic.

    Being able to "waste" while you protect yourself from opposing Wastelands is another scenario that is likely to come up quite often.
    I agree that i had really underestimated Field of Ruin at first. It's the only land that can give you a mana advantage and at worst, it give you mana parity like wasteland (but without the tempo gain). And while it's less of a tempo card, the ability to actually give you a mana advantage is something i feel can actually be significant. It's probably as good as a "new" wasteland as we'll ever get.

  11. #471

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    Memory Lapse with that combo is pretty comical.
    How? The original casting won't resolve because you memory lapsed it and when you play it off the top of your library with the invocation it won't win you the game because you didn't cast it from your hand.
    It seems like the combo is Memory Lapse / Remand and then just wait to cast Approach again next turn, which is kind of cute, but 9 mana is a huge amount in modern even for control decks (and Memory Lapse isn't even legal lol).

  12. #472
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    How? The original casting won't resolve because you memory lapsed it and when you play it off the top of your library with the invocation it won't win you the game because you didn't cast it from your hand.
    It seems like the combo is Memory Lapse / Remand and then just wait to cast Approach again next turn, which is kind of cute, but 9 mana is a huge amount in modern even for control decks (and Memory Lapse isn't even legal lol).
    It's a cast trigger, not a spell resolving, just like e.g. a hardcast Emrakul giving you a Time Walk. Thus it doesn't give a flying fuck if it gets countered or not as far as the win condition is concerned.

    You still need to resolve the second one to win the game, though.

    Gatherer Rulings

  13. #473
    bruizar
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Approach of the Second Sun would also work with Narset Transcendent by giving it Rebound. Also in UW and slightly easier on the mana cost.

  14. #474

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    It's a cast trigger, not a spell resolving, just like e.g. a hardcast Emrakul giving you a Time Walk. Thus it doesn't give a flying fuck if it gets countered or not as far as the win condition is concerned.

    You still need to resolve the second one to win the game, though.

    Gatherer Rulings
    Uh, this is just straight up wrong
    You know there is no trigger involved because the card doesn't have the words 'when', 'whenever' or 'at' printed on it. Approach of the second sun is no different to e.g. [Balance of Power], when the spell resolves things happen based on whether the 'if' clause is met or not.

    In fact it's right there in the Gatherer rulings: "7/14/2017 Approach of the Second Sun has no effect until it’s resolving. If the second one you cast is countered, you won’t win the game."

    If it worked the way you describe the only thing in Standard that interacts with it would be Disallow, which seems pretty miserable.

    Edit:
    Just to be extra clear we aren't talking past each other, I am envisioning the following scenario:
    Cast Approach, Sunbird triggers
    In response to Sunbird trigger, Memory Lapse your own Approach
    Sunbird trigger resolves, you cast the Approach from the top of your library
    This Approach resolves. Have you cast Approach already this game? Yes. But was the currently-resolving Approach cast from your hand? No, it was cast from your library. You don't win the game.
    Now there is nothing else left on the stack. The end.
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 09-18-2017 at 07:40 AM.

  15. #475

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Approach of the Second Sun would also work with Narset Transcendent by giving it Rebound. Also in UW and slightly easier on the mana cost.
    Rebound doesn't count as being cast from hand, does it?

  16. #476
    bruizar
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by filln View Post
    Rebound doesn't count as being cast from hand, does it?
    ugh, from hand indeed.. rtfc@self :)

  17. #477
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Uh, this is just straight up wrong
    You know there is no trigger involved because the card doesn't have the words 'when', 'whenever' or 'at' printed on it. Approach of the second sun is no different to e.g. [Balance of Power], when the spell resolves things happen based on whether the 'if' clause is met or not.

    In fact it's right there in the Gatherer rulings: "7/14/2017 Approach of the Second Sun has no effect until it’s resolving. If the second one you cast is countered, you won’t win the game."

    If it worked the way you describe the only thing in Standard that interacts with it would be Disallow, which seems pretty miserable.

    Edit:
    Just to be extra clear we aren't talking past each other, I am envisioning the following scenario:
    Cast Approach, Sunbird triggers
    In response to Sunbird trigger, Memory Lapse your own Approach
    Sunbird trigger resolves, you cast the Approach from the top of your library
    This Approach resolves. Have you cast Approach already this game? Yes. But was the currently-resolving Approach cast from your hand? No, it was cast from your library. You don't win the game.
    Now there is nothing else left on the stack. The end.
    As your second Approach of the Second Sun resolves, it checks only whether the first one was cast, not whether the first one resolved. If your first Approach of the Second Sun was countered, you’ll still win the game as your second one resolves.
    This is what I'm talking about. Maybe I worded it poorly, but thing is that the first one can be countered to count for the win trigger while the second one must resolve to win the game.

    This is why Memory Lapse works since the first copy is cast, flagging the win condition, then put on top of the library to be cast again next turn. Now if the second copy resolves, it wins the game.

  18. #478

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Oh yeah so you didn't even mean with the Sunbird card, ok, thats why I was confused.
    I guess it's kind of cool, seeing as Regrowth doesn't work (can't bring it back from the yard when it's 7 cards deep in your library) but still, 9 mana is so much :(

  19. #479
    bruizar
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    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Yep, Hostage Taker is insane. What's even more insane is the interaction with Siren's Ruse. That tore down the prerelease here.

  20. #480

    Re: Ixalan [XLN]

    Dinosaurs and Pirates. I still can't get over the ridiculousness of that combination of themes. It's like something out of a Calvin and Hobbes fantasy sequence.
    - 'Pathy' on MTGO
    - Eastern PA player

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