looks like gofy is gonna be gone now with vexing devil.
Is that so?
Goyfs strength lies within dealing more than just once damage and is way more flexible.
That Demon sure is a good card but the fact that it costs 1 doesn't outweigh that it dies to bolt and is a horrible topdeck in front of a lot of cards that stall out the game (like Thrun) where it does matter to draw a Goyf.
I am testing Goyf-less Thresh for over 2 months now, not that I can't see cutting him, but I would not replace him with that douche.
Btw:
4 Delver 4 Mongoose 1 Clique 1 Snapcaster works out fine as far as Goyf-less testing goes.
In response...Hypothek!
I've been proxying 2 of each miracle , wrath/walk, all morning. Both have been anywhere from poor to game winning with wrath the better of the two most consistently but wasteland can surprise screw either one easily. Anyway what I found was these (mostly mastery) really tone down brainstorms power to that of an average Cantrip. Starting to doubt its worth the trade off, at least to play both although wrath seems to be worth it because 5 damage for R is sick.
Vexing devil was so close to being great but I think chain lightnings spot removal option edges it out. Question though, can we choose to direct the damage to a plainswalker? If so then devil might still be considerable. Burn will like him either way since 3 in a game is a free bolt and probably speeds up their clock by a turn. Hanni's quickdraw wur deck could possibly make use of it also. In fact that deck is feeling scary as hell.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
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So I was getting ready to make the investment in a set of goyf's and now I'm seeing all this hate towards them? Can I get some explanation please? Before I make the investment to finish my tempo deck. Out of all the games I played it seemed if I let my opponent resolve a goyf I'm basically I'm up shit creek without a paddle...I use to think goyf was not worth it he just a guy with a huge target and mongoose was good enough but sometimes I can't close the game quick enough and like I said above I have to answer to goyf if it resolves.
Goyf is still amazing, just that 2 mana is alot for us. Buy 3 if anything and play 4 goose. I'm gonna test devil but I don't see it replacing goyf in thresh, maybe testing will prove different.
The only thing that should be considered to replace Goyf is Ooze. Ooze trumps the mirror match and shrinks knight down. Also has the added benefit of gaining life and hits the graveyard.
I couldn't see thresh cutting Goyf, he is an unconditional beater for two mana. The devil you can lose on turn 1 without your opponent even using a card in his hand. Seems terrible in this style of deck where all of your cards are worth so much.
So by theory this devil can be better then goyf.
Avoids Spell Snare
Cost 1
Has typically equal power 4/3 compared to the typical 4/5
The bad though.
It dies to bolt
Opponent gets a choice
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
You guys are halfway serious in considering cutting Goyf for Devils. Y'all really are infected with Preview-fever.
Why in the world would you cut the best reason to play Green in this deck at all?
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Koby, dont listen, they might not know what they are doing right now. Wait a week or two and theyll be back to "normal mode" again, hopefully...
I guess the next thing you guys will do is replace FoW with Misdirection cause it dealz no damage?
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Yeah let's cut Force for Browbeat too! Guys, the devil will NEVER be good because the opponent will always choose the option that hurts them least; instead of taking away their tactical options you give more to them basically.
This new devil will see some play in burn, but i think cutting goyfs for devils is bad decision... For now i don't see a good card for Canadian in those spoiled cards. Time Walk 2.0 doesn't seem like a good plan for Canadian.
I've tested Sulfur elemental in some matches and it was very good. Too bad it costs 3 mana but split second and flash make up for it.
I will derail the Devil conversation back to Stifle-Snare-Pierce debate if anyone else wants to participate. I read Levin's RUG article on SCG today and he strongly advises against Stifle and uses Daze, FoW, Snare, Pierce as the disruption suite.
I agree with Pierce being the most desirable choice in the counter suite but I believe Snare's functionality can be covered by burn spells and having Stifle instead of Snare can provide additional utility when needed. The list I'm trying is like this:
4 Goose
4 Delver
4 Goyf
3 FoW
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Ligtning Bolt
3 Forked Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
18 lands
Additional burn spells here can act as a Spell Snare for most occasions (Ooze, Confidant, Thalia, SFM...) and Pierce can take care of the rest (Sylvan Library, Hymn, Animate Dead etc.) plus still having Stifle to foil plans. In such a configuration both Pierce and burn spells have their own uses while also doubling as Snare. What's the point in cutting Stifle and reducing Pierce, burn and Snare to conditional spells?
what about 2 of the new devil? instead of the 2 chain lighting spots or the forked bolts? that way you still keep the creature base and also its not bad even is they let it burn them in the face or let it resolve also we can counter the removal spell. thats just my opinion on the new devil any way.
Dealing 4 damage to the opponent for R is nice, but not something I want to be doing on turn 1 when it's just a tempo disadvantage and a card disadvantage as well. On the other hand, killing a summoning sick Mother of Runes is something I definitely want to do on turn 1.
Tempo-lists run 12 creatures normally.
Well tuned Tempo-lists run 11 creatures.
DO NOT RUN MORE!
Maybe I am a bit old-fashioned but I would never ever cut Stifle and Snare. Why do you guys want to change so many things at an already working machine? My Counterusite is as stock as it can be:
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
3 REB
from the side
Thats it.
The problem with stifle vs spell pierce is that pierce shines most alongside with stifle. Stifle keep opponents off mana so they can't play extra for our pierce. I tested with 4 stifles and 3 spell pierces (in spell snares' place) and i didn't like it. Pierce doesn't help much with maverick. It's better vs UW and Esper but for me it's quite good matchup with out spell pierce.
When i play against control in late game pierce loses most of it's value. Same with daze but daze is good when we have tempo start.
And dazes counters creatures with is most important against maverick...
Dear lord.
You all should realllllyyy read Drew Levin's article this week on SCG about RUG. I don't always agree with his viewpoints, but this article I can agree with pretty much everything (except for maybe some of the SB choices and also regarding Thought Scour).
For those of you still in love with Stifle, I urge you, just *try* dropping it for a week of solid testing. I think you will quickly find that you don't really miss it much, especially with Spell Pierce stepping in.
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