[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Serch]

Got top 16 in the Legacy challenge today, missed top 8 on breakers and ended up in 11th or something.

First of all congrats for you results!

Could you, please, share your actual decklist and sideboard?

Thanks in advance!

[DNSolver]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/488939#online

I saw that someone played a turbo list with 4 Sphere of Resistance in the side over 4 Chalice. Definitely a fan of doing that. This would mean that instead of sideboarding in Chalices against Delver and stuff, we would leave in more discard...that's probably fine. I mostly want Spheres for Storm and our deck has a lot of 1 drops post board (Surgical, Crop Rot, discard, etc.), so putting Chalice on one is awkward. Spheres are dirt cheap on MTGO so I'm definitely going to try those next league.

Went 4-0 at a Legacy weekly today.

R1: Grixis Delver 2-0

R2: Shardless BUG 2-1
G2 I lost to Hymn hitting a Dark Depths. He surgicals it and we're on Hexmage beatdown plan. We actually almost have a chance because he draws a lot of lands in a row, but obviously our deck doesn't work right with no Marit Lages. This matchup is close if their deck is built with extra discard and more Baleful Strixes.

R3: Grixis Delver 2-1

R4: Death and Taxes 2-1 This was an amazing match. Game 1 was a really cool game. He had Vial on one and Thalia on two. I play out lands and a bunch of land searches, trying to outposition him on board. I get a Hexmage down but he's on threatening duty because of Karakas on the other side. I copy his Port with one of my Stages, setting up comboing after tapping his Karakas. However, on the turn I set up to do that, he activates his vial on 3 and puts in Mangara of Corondor... So close, would have won if that was one turn later... Game 2 he kept Vial, Council's Judgment, and triple Thalia, drawing a fourth Thalia on turn 3 or so. I Thoughtseize his Vial and bait out his Wasteland with my Urborg I used. He finds another Vial. I then search for Karakas with Sylvan Scrying and nullify esssentially his whole hand. He is locked into playing Thalia every turn due to not drawing any other relevant threats. I set up a combo and Not of This World his Flickerwisp he searched for with Recruiter of the Guard. Game 3 he doesn't have vial and I play a map and needle Karakas. I set up Hexmage combo with Dark Depths, but Marit Lage gets Pathed. I play another Depths and Hexmage. He tries to stop the combo with Flickerwisp but I Karakas his Thalia and Not of This World it.

[Negator77']

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/488939#online

R4: Death and Taxes 2-1 This was an amazing match. Game 1 was a really cool game. He had Vial on one and Thalia on two. I play out lands and a bunch of land searches, trying to outposition him on board. I get a Hexmage down but he's on threatening duty because of Karakas on the other side. I copy his Port with one of my Stages, setting up comboing after tapping his Karakas. However, on the turn I set up to do that, he activates his vial on 3 and puts in Mangara of Corondor... So close, would have won if that was one turn later... Game 2 he kept Vial, Council's Judgment, and triple Thalia, drawing a fourth Thalia on turn 3 or so. I Thoughtseize his Vial and bait out his Wasteland with my Urborg I used. He finds another Vial. I then search for Karakas with Sylvan Scrying and nullify esssentially his whole hand. He is locked into playing Thalia every turn due to not drawing any other relevant threats. I set up a combo and Not of This World his Flickerwisp he searched for with Recruiter of the Guard. Game 3 he doesn't have vial and I play a map and needle Karakas. I set up Hexmage combo with Dark Depths, but Marit Lage gets Pathed. I play another Depths and Hexmage. He tries to stop the combo with Flickerwisp but I Karakas his Thalia and Not of This World it.

Congrats on your recent finishes! Death and Taxes is simultaneously one of the most difficult and one of the most interesting match-ups. It feels like a giant chess match where perfect sequencing and doing the little things right often gets rewarded. Stages copying their lands is often a big inflection point. Sadly, a lot more D+T players are playing/boarding Paths nowadays. It makes their disruption suite in the MU even more robust.

[uncletiggy]

Im curious about the drownyard tech? Im only seeing 4 lotus petals to activate it what matchups is it for and how does it make itself relevant? Ive been playing essentially negators list preparing for baltimore but I've been looking into bastardizing negator and solvers approaches. Mainly looking to incorporate both brainstorm and not of this world.

For reference im playing the first list and looking at the second:


4 bstorm
4 crop rotation
4 sylvan scrying
2 expedition map

4 mox diamond
4 hexmage

1 duress
1 iok
4 thought seize
2 decay
2 pithing needle


4 stage
4 depths
4 urborg
2 gemstone caverns
2 bayou
1 forest
4 verdant
1 misty
1 usea
1 trop
1 seriji step
1 b bog
1 ghost quarter
1 karakas

1 sylvan library
1 lftl
3 pierce
1 ghost quarter
2 needle
2 grip
1 gemstone caverns
3 surgical
1 flex



4 hex mage
4 spirit guide
4 lotus petal

4 crop rotation
4 sylvan
4 brainstorm

4 ts
1 iok
1 duress
3 pithing needle
3 notw
1 decay

4 depths
4 stage
3 urborg
4 verdant
1 trop
1 sea
2 bayou
1 forest
1 serji
1 g quarter
1 bog

[Tommyfromrugrats]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/488939#online

I saw that someone played a turbo list with 4 Sphere of Resistance in the side over 4 Chalice. Definitely a fan of doing that. This would mean that instead of sideboarding in Chalices against Delver and stuff, we would leave in more discard...that's probably fine. I mostly want Spheres for Storm and our deck has a lot of 1 drops post board (Surgical, Crop Rot, discard, etc.), so putting Chalice on one is awkward. Spheres are dirt cheap on MTGO so I'm definitely going to try those next league.

Went 4-0 at a Legacy weekly today.

R1: Grixis Delver 2-0

R2: Shardless BUG 2-1
G2 I lost to Hymn hitting a Dark Depths. He surgicals it and we're on Hexmage beatdown plan. We actually almost have a chance because he draws a lot of lands in a row, but obviously our deck doesn't work right with no Marit Lages. This matchup is close if their deck is built with extra discard and more Baleful Strixes.

R3: Grixis Delver 2-1

R4: Death and Taxes 2-1 This was an amazing match. Game 1 was a really cool game. He had Vial on one and Thalia on two. I play out lands and a bunch of land searches, trying to outposition him on board. I get a Hexmage down but he's on threatening duty because of Karakas on the other side. I copy his Port with one of my Stages, setting up comboing after tapping his Karakas. However, on the turn I set up to do that, he activates his vial on 3 and puts in Mangara of Corondor... So close, would have won if that was one turn later... Game 2 he kept Vial, Council's Judgment, and triple Thalia, drawing a fourth Thalia on turn 3 or so. I Thoughtseize his Vial and bait out his Wasteland with my Urborg I used. He finds another Vial. I then search for Karakas with Sylvan Scrying and nullify esssentially his whole hand. He is locked into playing Thalia every turn due to not drawing any other relevant threats. I set up a combo and Not of This World his Flickerwisp he searched for with Recruiter of the Guard. Game 3 he doesn't have vial and I play a map and needle Karakas. I set up Hexmage combo with Dark Depths, but Marit Lage gets Pathed. I play another Depths and Hexmage. He tries to stop the combo with Flickerwisp but I Karakas his Thalia and Not of This World it.

That was my list! The spheres were originally just a budget concern as I don't own chalices on MTGO, and they turned out to be way better than I was expecting. Being able to thoughtseize/crop rotation after landing a sphere is really nice. I'm not sure if it is better than chalice or not, but I will continue testing both for the time being.

[DNSolver]

I can't wait until people start reading previous pages before posting.

You can activate Nephalia Drownyard after you copy your opponent's Island with your Thespian's Stage. Against Miracles your Stages are sitting on the board as threatening the combo, but you can make them do stuff. For example, you can copy your opponent's Karakas so that they can't win with Vendilion Clique beatdowns, or you can hit their Clique/Venser with Thoughtseize if you play well. But besides copying a basic land, your Stages can copy basics Islands and Nephalia Drownyard so you can mill them for up to 6 a turn. Plus Surgical Extractions become ridiculous - they strip win cons from the deck and mill the opponent for 2-3 cards as well! Secret mode...

The game I used Drownyard against Miracles in the Legacy Challenge, my opponent killed me with two mentor tokens exactly one turn before he was going to be decked.

Some more thoughts on Sphere of Resistance: it is a little worse than Chalice against Sneak and Show, but better against the Omni-Show lists because they can't combo win immediately after slamming Omniscience into play. I like it.

About the lists posted above: I assume Gemstone Caverns is actually Gemstone Mine. Karakas is probably not maindeck material, and I don't think Abrupt Decay is either. My list prefers unplayable garbage cards to Brainstorm, and I'm pretty sure that a hybrid list of unplayable cards will just let you Brainstorm into more unplayable cards. If you are going to play a value Depths plan like Negator77, go all out, I suggest.

[uncletiggy]

Its actually caverns not mine just recently switched the 3rd cavern to the board and maindecked the karakas. Brainstorm and diamond have mitigated the opportunity cost thus far enough to hold those slots. And g1 karakas really helps with bringing the sneak matchup closer to 50/50. Sorry i read the last three pages and there wasnt a whole lot of feed back on drownyard and if it had any utility outside of being stricktly for terminus.

[DNSolver]

Sneak matchup should be favorable. Drownyard is for milling Miracles players.

[apple713]

Sneak matchup should be favorable. Drownyard is for milling Miracles players.

Do you find that drownyard helps your opponent because it helps them dog for what they need with sdt? Or maybe not enough games to tell?

[Claymore]

I would expect it to turn into a cat/mouse bluffing game. Do you mill their top 3 that was set up with Top? Or do they get to draw the card they left on top? Or did they just rearrange extra pieces and don't actually need what's in the top 3?

They have to sacrifice their top in order to get the card they really want if you activate Drownyard, and if you can hold up a Surgical in response then that can ruin their day.

[ComplexPants]

So I feel like the flex land slot in the board in the board can be Maze, Tomb or Drownyard. The number of times I have used maze is quite low, I am thinking about trying out Tomb. @DNSolver, do you feel like you would rather have Tomb or Drownyard?

[apple713]

So I feel like the flex land slot in the board in the board can be Maze, Tomb or Drownyard. The number of times I have used maze is quite low, I am thinking about trying out Tomb. @DNSolver, do you feel like you would rather have Tomb or Drownyard?

tomb would only be for turn 1 chalice. I think it would be 100% worse in all other situations.

[ComplexPants]

Can anyone give me advice for the D&T matchup. Played against them in a league (3-2) and got destroyed. I feel like I was just always behind with them.


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[hovercraft]

Can anyone give me advice for the D&T matchup. Played against them in a league (3-2) and got destroyed. I feel like I was just always behind with them.


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Any cards in particular giving you trouble? STP and Karakas are big threats to Marit Laige. I run chalice in my 75 which helps against STP, and run wastelands for karakas with pithing needles in the SB as well.

[ComplexPants]

The mixture of port, Sword, Aether vial, flicker wisp and mother of runes. Depending on their board know what to needle is tricky. I know wasteland is target #1.

Also when to try and go off. I play mostly on MTGO, where to don't see D&T much so in experience might be some of my problem.


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[Negator77']

The mixture of port, Sword, Aether vial, flicker wisp and mother of runes. Depending on their board know what to needle is tricky. I know wasteland is target #1.

Also when to try and go off. I play mostly on MTGO, where to don't see D&T much so in experience might be some of my problem.


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Needle is a very tricky card to play correctly against D+T. Running it out (on say Wasteland) without any game development or without seeing their hand is very risky and can often lead to avoidable losses. Playing a discard spell, Extraction, or waiting to see the problem card(s) before playing Needle are the better paths unless you know you have everything else covered. The three biggest problem cards/scenarios that can be answered by Pithing Needle are Karakas, Wasteland, and Vial into Flickerwisp. Two of those can safely hit the board with Needle still in hand... only Wasteland sets things back or makes things harder on the spot. It's a very tricky match-up that often comes down to creating/maximizing small windows and learning to recognize when taking riskier lines is appropriate. Everything comes into play all the way down to copying their lands (especially Port and Waste) with Stage whenever possible. That or trying to copy a plains will sometimes result in them using a Wasteland. Occasionally you will get lucky and an inexperienced D+T player will Wasteland a Stage that can fizzle the effect by copying a plains. More practice in the match-up will certainly help.... but it's always going to be a hard pairing barring some new printing for this deck to shift things or some tech that hasn't been discovered yet.

[DNSolver]

Played in an Eternal Weekend Trial at GP Providence on Saturday.

R1: Grixis Delver 2-0
R2: Death and Taxes - another very interesting matchup. Unfortunately for my opponent, Containment Priest doesn't stop Marit Lage and I win G3. 2-1
R3: Storm - G1 is a cheesy duress -> bojuka bog on Tendrils because I saw Cabal Ritual in his hand (hence, no Burning Wishes). He keeps playing to bluff but he is very dead. G2 is very tense with several turns of draw-go after surgical stops his first combo attempt. He Ad Nauseams down to 1 at some point, we keep playing as he tries multiple times to combo with various cards (Past in Flames, Tendrils, then going for Empty) but Surgical on Lion's Eye Diamond and Tendrils makes it too difficult. 2-0
R4: Burn 2-0
R5: Burn - I could have double drawn but I wanted to win one of the next two rounds to be top seed. I played this one because I knew the matchup. 2-0
R6: Miracles ID

Quarters: Storm (same opponent) - We agree to an individual prize split after game 2 (tied 1-1) and then I win G3.
Semis: RW Blood Moon / Nahiri hatecards. This matchup is miserable. G1 I get turn 1 Chalice'd stopping my next turn Thoughtseize into turn 2 Blood Moon. G2 I mulligan a lot and keep a reasonable hand, but lose to Enlightened Tutor -> turn 2 Blood moon -> turn 3 Blood moon -> turn 4 clock. That's what is expected in these matchups anyways.

Noteworthy: I lost only one game in the swiss, to Death and Taxes. The metagame in the 38-person tournament was a lot of Death and Taxes with Sanctum Prelate(s), two miracles players (one of whom was Rich Shay), no shardless, no eldrazi.

My typical turbo list that I played can be found in previous pages and on MTGGoldfish. I haven't obtained Sphere of Resistance to replace my Chalices yet. Overall, I have continually been impressed with this deck. I played a few matches against Miracles last night and I still advocate Drownyard. Any miracles deck without Blood Moon or 4 mentors has a hard time fighting through it in time. However, the games tend to get to the point where we have a lot of lands in play, so I could see Urza's Factory being strong as well. Factory has been on my radar for a while but I thought that it cost a bit too much mana. However, I think it does a better job of interacting with Mentor, Jace, and random Snapcaster beats. Further, attacking with Hexmages / Spirit Guides still contributes to the Factory gameplan while it can feel a bit awkward with the Drownyard plan.

[Claymore]

That's an interesting idea. One thing that Miracles has historically struggled with is any sort of pressure generating cards - token generators, Walkers especially. I don't think it is very good in the face of an active Mentor but a good suggestion for sure.

[ComplexPants]

Played in an Eternal Weekend Trial at GP Providence on Saturday.

R1: Grixis Delver 2-0
R2: Death and Taxes - another very interesting matchup. Unfortunately for my opponent, Containment Priest doesn't stop Marit Lage and I win G3. 2-1
R3: Storm - G1 is a cheesy duress -> bojuka bog on Tendrils because I saw Cabal Ritual in his hand (hence, no Burning Wishes). He keeps playing to bluff but he is very dead. G2 is very tense with several turns of draw-go after surgical stops his first combo attempt. He Ad Nauseams down to 1 at some point, we keep playing as he tries multiple times to combo with various cards (Past in Flames, Tendrils, then going for Empty) but Surgical on Lion's Eye Diamond and Tendrils makes it too difficult. 2-0
R4: Burn 2-0
R5: Burn - I could have double drawn but I wanted to win one of the next two rounds to be top seed. I played this one because I knew the matchup. 2-0
R6: Miracles ID

Quarters: Storm (same opponent) - We agree to an individual prize split after game 2 (tied 1-1) and then I win G3.
Semis: RW Blood Moon / Nahiri hatecards. This matchup is miserable. G1 I get turn 1 Chalice'd stopping my next turn Thoughtseize into turn 2 Blood Moon. G2 I mulligan a lot and keep a reasonable hand, but lose to Enlightened Tutor -> turn 2 Blood moon -> turn 3 Blood moon -> turn 4 clock. That's what is expected in these matchups anyways.

Noteworthy: I lost only one game in the swiss, to Death and Taxes. The metagame in the 38-person tournament was a lot of Death and Taxes with Sanctum Prelate(s), two miracles players (one of whom was Rich Shay), no shardless, no eldrazi.

My typical turbo list that I played can be found in previous pages and on MTGGoldfish. I haven't obtained Sphere of Resistance to replace my Chalices yet. Overall, I have continually been impressed with this deck. I played a few matches against Miracles last night and I still advocate Drownyard. Any miracles deck without Blood Moon or 4 mentors has a hard time fighting through it in time. However, the games tend to get to the point where we have a lot of lands in play, so I could see Urza's Factory being strong as well. Factory has been on my radar for a while but I thought that it cost a bit too much mana. However, I think it does a better job of interacting with Mentor, Jace, and random Snapcaster beats. Further, attacking with Hexmages / Spirit Guides still contributes to the Factory gameplan while it can feel a bit awkward with the Drownyard plan.

Congrats! Are you going to eternal weekend? If so I will see you there. I am still trying to figure out what do with that one flex spot. Not in love with any option right now, I might drop a winter orb in there. But really no idea what to put, maybe Grip for Miracles/Show and Tell/D&T and moon decks.

I think you may have answered this back a few posts, but do you miss Into the north? I am running a 2/1 split with map and I am debating moving more towards 1/2. North is limited, but I feel like it can just move you a bit faster towards early combos.

[DNSolver]

I am not going to Eternal Weekend, but I wish anyone going the best of luck with Dark Depths.

I tried a substitution of 3 Sylvan Library over 1 Duress, 1 Not of This World, 1 Pithing Needle. I reasoned that Library can help find these cards if we need them by seeing many cards. I went 4-1 in the league, losing to Delver after winning one of the games due to Library and losing the other two to mana screw after two aggressive Wastelands. I played against a friend on Miracles and I was extremely impressed with Library. I won G2 by casting turn 1 Library. I like Library over Sensei's Divining Top because a) we can resolve Library through CounterTop sometimes, b) we can needle opposing Top while keeping our method of looking at the top 3. We do have a lot of shuffle effects so getting stuck on a library is rare.

Also, I brainstormed the following list tonight. Willing to discuss any cards in here.

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
2 Life from the Loam
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Crop Rotation
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Abrupt Decay
8 combo lands
3 Urborg
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant, 2 Bayou, 1 Forest, 1 Swamp, 1 Blooming Marsh
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe

I took Apple's List from the OP and compared it to the 4-color Aggro Loam / Knight of the Reliquary decks running around. I didn't like having any discard in a Chalice on 1 deck, so I made the only one drops Crop Rotations. Then I overloaded on some value 2-drops and combo cards, with some good maindeck flex slots. No sideboard yet, but I imagine it would start with 4 Sphere of Resistance 2 Krosan Grip. Someone who owns these cards could take it for a spin.