If you want to make a change between those cards, I guess then +1 mephistopheles -1 transmute artifact (OR -1 Baleful Strix) IMO. But I wouldn't bother with Tezz the Seeker. Mephistopheles is a problem for TC+Brainstorm decks, but it doesn't answer threats on the board. That's why I'd keep the Baleful Strixes in.
Just won a game on mtgo facing down Humility and active Luminarch Ascension by hardcasting Leyline and then Transmuting for a Helm, good times.
It's a cheap, card-efficient answer to attacking creatures outside of TNN. It eats Goyfs (not as relevant now) just as easily as Flipped Delvers and Swiftspears.Originally Posted by tinofthefoil
Unless you have a Bridge down, good luck keeping planeswalkers alive for more than an activation.
Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
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Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.
So lets say that we wanted to splash Dack, maindeck Leyline of the Void, and sideboard things like Abrupt Decay, a couple E. Plagues and maybe Electrickery because **** Counterbalance, **** Elves, **** Elemental tokens, **** Dredge even though Leyline hasn't come up yet, etc.
Basically, pretend you want to be pre-sideboarded against as many popular, GP- likely decks as possible.
What would our manabase be?
Right now I'm running this, but 29 mana slots doesn't feel right and I'm missing some number of City of Traitors and 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth...
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Dimir Signet
3x Darkslick Shores
2x Talisman of Dominance
2x Mox Diamond
1x Academy Ruins
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Badlands
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Island
I'll admit, the manabase in my UBr list is greedy as hell, and I do sometimes lose to Wastelands because of it. That, though, is just asking to never cast any of the spells in your deck. I don't think you can realistically play with that many colors in this format with only 2 Diamonds and 4 Fetchlands, and that's not even taking into account the fact that you have 5 colorless lands as well. The only way those 4c Delver lists can pull it off is the combination of DRS with something like 10 fetchlands, which this is not even close to.
I'd def agree. that manabase looks greedy and scary as hell. I don't think it's something you could pull off. :/
That's interesting feedback because I haven't had problems casting my spells, mostly I've had issues with drawing too many mana sources. Having a virtual ~7 sources of Red and Green has been plenty so far, though I'll admit I haven't played any sort of super-aggressive mana denial stifle waste plan RUG delver or Chalice Stompy.
It may help to realize you only need red or green when you need them, never both. Landing Dack to steal a Divining Top isn't high on the agenda versus just blowing up Counterbalance and playing for the win.
Is there any merit to splashing green for abrupt decay? How does the deck answer a resolved leyline of sanctity and ensnaring bridge? The best i can think of would be to turn the bridge into a 5/5 and bounce it with jace. leyline blocks tezz and jace ultimates, the 'other' wincon. Should there be made room for a SB echoing truth?
If they have Leyline, you kill them with Thopters. If they don't, you can Tezz them out. As for a resolved Ensnaring Bridge against us, build up and Tezz ultimate if you can.
Here's my list for reference:
4 Force of Will
3 Transmute Artifact
1 The Abyss
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Baleful Strix
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Dimir Signet
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
2 Academy Ruins
SB: 2 Goblin Welder
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Misdirection
SB: 2 Lodestone Golem
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Caltrops
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
-Matt
I'm going to be running almost the exact same list this week (although no volc with welder, need to get 2 foil welders). I think the abyss is money.
I'm running very close (main deck), except instead of seekers, running 2x JTMS. I need a way to ditch dead cards (like the 3rd leyline you draw). The deck already has 3 tutors for helm, if you can cast seeker, you can get helm but not activate, whereas with 5 mana and transmute, you can transmute and pay and activate in the same turn.
I mean, if you're going to play a 61st card, the card should cost over $100 I think.
-Matt
With logic that sound, how could you ever lose?
And this is why I almost always money. #Value
Also, you should change "as" in the quote to "a". I mistyped.
-Matt
I played a list that had Dack and ran main deck Grove/Punishing Fire I played it to a 2nd place finish at local legacy event... I can post manabase later when at home have list saved on computer...
I have been watching this deck from afar since its inception. The only thing that keeps me from playing it is whenever I proxy it or use an electronic hand generator/ game simulation, I always seem to run into problems with increased variance in starting hands and draws. This is very much akin to my time playing MUD, but less so due to the search provided by Tezz.
How do you guys feel about the variance issue over several rounds in a tournament? Zach I know eternal champs was long so any input on the matter that you have would be greatly appreciated. This is really the only barrier to playing the deck that I can't seem to get over in my mind.
Does putting back in a few Jace or slotting back in thirst really subtract from this issue?
Thank you in advance for the input.
Inspired by your changes to Zach's list I will on Tuesday in our LGS play something more along these lines:
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
2x Darkslick Shores
2x Flooded Strand
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
3x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Volcanic Island
4x Dimir Signet
2x Talisman of Dominance
4x Force of Will
3x Transmute Artifact
3x Baleful Strix
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x The Abyss
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Sword of the Meek
2x Thopter Foundry
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2x Tezzeret the Seeker
Sideboard
1x Chains of Mephistopheles / Notion Thief
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Goblin Welder
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Lodestone Golem
2x Sun Droplet
2x Toxic Deluge
2x Trinisphere
1x Trading Post
Maybe
1x Batterskull
1x Caltrops
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Cursed Totem
1x Engineered Plague
1x Meekstone
1x Misdirection
1x Mox Diamond
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Smokestack
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Wasteland
1x Wurmcoil Engine
I took out the Wastelands and one Academy Ruins as I don't like the amount of colorless lands your list had. The welder and the Abyss are nice ideas.
I like Grafdigger's Cage more than Tormod's Crypt, as the Crypt is only really good with Welder.
Following on your value theme of the 100$ Card I added some value to combat UR Delver/Miracles to the sideboard.
Also new is a Trading Post, which could be anything, but I lost some games against a normal Jund list and I wanted a permanent with CMC>3 that can take over the game and is preferably an artifact with some minimal protection Ancient Grudge. Wurmcoil Engine / Batterskull are probably just way better.
Last edited by hofzge; 12-09-2014 at 04:23 AM.
Chalice on 1
Would like to see how that list does.. I took the other UB list to my local last night (did awful, but was my first time piloting the deck, so i expected it to be a big mess). but definately thinking about adding the volc + welder
Well I played the deck 2 weeks ago in this setup in the LGS:
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Baleful Strix
4 Chalice of the Void
3 City of Traitors
3 Darkslick Shores
4 Dimir Signet
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Force of Will
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Polluted Delta
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Azorius Signet
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Thopter Foundry
3 Transmute Artifact
1 Trinisphere
4 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Engineered Plague
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Uba Mask
1 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Damnation
2 Vendilion Clique
I went 3-1 going like this:
Mark 1-0-1 with MUD
G1
The first game I won after an epic back and forth. I resolve an Ensnaring Bridge which gives me time, but he manages to mindslaver me with a Kuldotha Forgemaster and to destroy 4 lands with a Sundering Titan that comes and goes. During the Mindslaver turn he sacs my board including the Bridge to the drawn Thopter Foundry. On the next turn I luck and draw the second Ensnaring Bridge and much later am able to Academy Ruins my Foundry back and win with Thopters. This game took about 40-45 minutes and I mentally high five myself for finally winning it. When he mindslavered me I thought about concedeing, as the game had already taken a while, but decided against it.
G2
The game begins shortly before the extra turns and he still is able to Mindslaver on turn 4, but luckily I cannot my board cannot beat myself and it's a draw.
1-2 Oliver as with UR Delver
G1
I have a Leyline and later a Thopter Foundry. I can win on Helm of Obedience through Transmute Artifact at 4 life.
G2 & G3
These games are a blur but I lose both to Pyroblast and Blood Moon. This matchup is never a cakewalk.
2-0 Lorenz with Death Blade
G1
Early Chalice of the Void on 1 & Ensnaring Bridge. I attack with Strixen and Thopters, while his Batterskull stays home.
G2
More of the same: Chalice of the Void on 1 T1 - He casts 3 or 4 Treasure Cruises, but draws no good.
In the first game hilariously i attack with Strixen and Thopters, while his Batterskull stays home.
2-0 Dominique with UR Delver
G1
Transmute Artifact for the Thopter-Sword on 17 life wins the first game.
G2
I play City of Traitors and Azorius Signet and he wastelandes. I already have another City of Traitors and resolve the drawn Chalice of the Void on 1. If he had instead put down the Delver in his hand and clocked me, he would have won. He then goes on for what felt like 10 turns doing nothing and finally plays a Young Pyromancer which dies of Toxic Deluge. I win in some way or another (I don't remember).
I played Azorius Signets as I had no Talismans and still wanted 6 Mana Artifacts. The Uba Mask is a card I always want to play and am always reminded why it is really bad ;)
Last edited by hofzge; 12-09-2014 at 04:18 AM.
Chalice on 1
Onto day 2 at 7-2 with my usual list. UR is everywhere...
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