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Thread: Miracle Control

  1. #2861
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    If you pay me or give me some benefits, I might consider writing reports.
    I don't post on this thread often, but when I do it's to point and laugh at people.

    I am currently thinking of upping myself to 10 Fetchlands. I currently play 4 Blue Fetches, 4 Strands, and a Mesa, alongside 4 Tundra, 1 Fortress, 1 Volc, 5 Island, 3 Plains, and a Karakas. Ditching a Tundra for another Misty etc. seems like it might work out well for me. I'm also interested in working in the Mountain from a previous list. Wasteland is less of an issue for me than it may be for some players and some decks, but when my opponent is playing them I always feel like my Blood Moon is actively trying to get me killed. I need to crack my Fetch, and if I don't get a Volc I have no Red for Blood Moon later on. If I do, they can just Waste it. Getting a Mountain would often solve some of these problems, but I would then be running an effectively colourless Land. Which is lame.

  2. #2862

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    If you pay me or give me some benefits, I might consider writing reports.
    Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?

  3. #2863
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by useL View Post
    Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
    I'd be in too, we could create some kind of foundation...

    On a more deckspecific topic: On how to approach Deathblade. I am talking of a more common build of Deathblade - 3-4 Force, no Geists, no Souls, Confidants.
    My recent games got me thinking. My opponent was a better player than I am, that said but all the games were close, it was probably my fault only that I lost - or his fault for not misplaying a single bit :D
    Anyways, how to approach this MU anyways... I think of Deathblade as another Deathrite Shaman Creature Deck. Jaces are their trumps but not their main winning condition. Following this points I board in all of the removal I have access to --> 4 Swords 4 Terminus plus the sideboarded Verdicts/or any other removal. Forces out, and probably Spell Pierce (from a more generic Miracle-List) too? But with cutting Spell Pierce you can't handle a hardcast Skull or a Jace any more? If I cut the cc1-counters I am certainly bringing in anti-bgx bombs like Blood Moon, Elspeth and Baneslayer. Going this route, 0 counterspells, enables us to handle their threats first, then establish either Balance-lock or drop big white Bombs onto the battlefield. Not bringing the bombs and keeping in Pierces forces us into a 100% reactive gameplan with balance+top as our only way to win, besides a big entreat. But there also is the (high) possibility that we are getting outclassed on the battlefield by creatures like Confi/mystic - we can't just counter / kill everything.
    Postboard we might have to deal with Geist anyways, so more removal is needed here too.


    To sum it up:
    I am for boarding out all spellbased interaction and bring in all the white/red cards like Elspeth, Baneslayer, Blood Moon and more Entreat the Angles. Additionaly I opt for more removal against their creatures at the cost of only a few jace-specified answers like REB...

    How are you doing it?

    Greetings
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  4. #2864
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    @Einherjer

    As I mentioned before, trying to keep up with all their discard on the sole back of Counterbalance (which is often dismembered by A.decays) is an uphill battle against discard.

    I'll remove my counters (FoW, Pierce, Counterspell) for Path to Exile and Terminus out of the board with already 4 Entreat Main, taking full Profit from the Supreme Miracle-threats/solutions while blanking their discard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  5. #2865

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    @Einherjer

    I guess the battle is a bit different pending your 75. I would go +2 baneslayer, +1 wear//tear , +2 reb (jace is a dangerous card), +1 supreme verdict + 1 EE (one in main already), +1 blood moon. Then remove 9 cards, 3 fow, 2 pierce, 1 counterspell, 1 enlightened tutor (card disadvantage) and probably one ponder (running 2).

    I have a feeling I will be leaning against going +2 misdirection in my sideboard within a few weeks and then those would be boarded in against abrupt decay maybe? They are so bad against the majority of a deathblade deck after they have sideboarded (they probably board out their discard if they know what they are doing)

  6. #2866
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    What is the point about Baneslayer and Misdirection aside A.Decay, which I pretty much ignore ever and rather go aggro with Entreat, instead of sitting behind the balance for 10 turns. :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  7. #2867
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    I love Misdirection. It does a lot to disrupt the decks we have problems with. Mainly Shardless. I don't like Baneslayer Angel at all. You know what I'd want to do with 5 mana? Make 3 Angels, not 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by useL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    If you pay me or give me some benefits, I might consider writing reports.
    Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
    The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einherjer View Post
    That's.... that's not how deckbuilding works.

  8. #2868
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Good stuff phazonmuant. That's pretty darn close to where I'm at. I would recommend Wear // Tear over Disenchant these days though. ;)

    I played in a 25-man SCG IQ this past Saturday, going 3-0-2 but losing in Top8 to Jund with the following list:


    4 brainstorm
    1 ponder
    4 swords to plowshares
    4 sensei's divining top
    1 spell pierce
    1 flusterstorm
    2 enlightened tutor
    2 counterbalance
    1 counterspell
    3 rest in peace
    1 energy field
    1 vendilion clique
    2 entreat the angels
    1 oblivion ring
    3 jace, the mind sculptor
    1 helm of obedience
    4 force of will
    3 terminus
    2 tundra
    1 volcanic island
    1 karakas
    4 scalding tarn
    4 flooded strand
    1 arid mesa
    2 plains
    1 mountain
    5 island

    sideboard:

    1 Blood Moon
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 Celestial Purge
    1 Wear // Tear
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Meddling Mage
    1 Ethersworn Cannonist
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Humility
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Pyroclasm
    1 Leyline of Sanctity


    Quick summary - re-added the field because I expected a lot of aggro at a store that doesn't usually have a lot of Legacy, pushed the moon to the board, tried a flusterstorm main which was great all day.
    I'll try to post a report from that and possibly also from tonight's weekly when I get home tonight and can look at all of my notes.


    Edit: In reference to certain people, there is a feature on this board that lets you ignore certain posters, hiding all the posts they make...

  9. #2869

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    1 oblivion ring
    As much as you want to complain and whine, you are doing exactly what I've written pages back.

  10. #2870

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I will give you more insight about the land-tax list after work.

    [...]

    More to come.
    Please Sir, I want some more...

    Seriously though, I'm keen on this idea...

    -ABC

  11. #2871
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I'm a 100% sure I will shock my next tournament opponents with Land Tax + Path to Exile + 4 Entreat!
    Playing Daze? Scroll Rack?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

  12. #2872
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by useL View Post
    Where can we watch the feature matches? Point us in the right direction please.
    Here is the link to the YouTube-Page of the store. As of now R1, R3 and R4 are up already. You can see me playing at R1 and R2 (which should be up somewhen soon, probably tomorrow). Enjoy, and if you catch anything you would have done differently, especially R2 let me know! The videos are called "08.09. Legacy Invitational..."

    https://www.youtube.com/user/SpielRaumWien

    Greetings
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  13. #2873
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Please Sir, I want some more...

    Seriously though, I'm keen on this idea...

    -ABC
    Lastest list:

    4x Jace TMS
    4x Force of Will
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Counterbalance
    4x Sensei's Divining Top
    4x Entreat the Angels
    4x Path to Exile
    3x Land Tax
    4x Vendillion Clique
    3x Terminus

    2x Karakas
    4x Flooded Strand
    4x Tundra
    2x Plains
    6x Island
    2x Scalding Tarn
    2x Polluted Delta


    That's right, there are only FoW and Counterbalance as countersuite in the mainboard! I'm used to have 3 flusterstorm in the side among other goodies for combo. The Mainboard is made to battle Tempo decks and massive discard therefore I focused on solid mana and topdecks. Cliques are to assist Brainstorm in getting Miracles back into the deck, keeping Delver in check and to mess with Show&Tell and Infernal Tutor. The combination with Karakas is disgusting ;)

    This deck is still in development and I might switch to Tithe instead of Land Tax for the immediate effect, but having free Ancestral Recalls off Land Tax (especially in combination with Brainstorm and Jace) made me trying to solve the mana issue with Tax first and Tithe in a second session after having played the deck with Ponder instead, but both white cards look more promising because of the cardadvantage tacked onto.

    Keep you updated. I consider a red-splash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  14. #2874

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Einherjer View Post
    On a more deck specific topic: On how to approach Deathblade. I am talking of a more common build of Deathblade - 3-4 Force, no Geists, no Souls, Confidants.
    My recent games got me thinking. My opponent was a better player than I am, that said but all the games were close, it was probably my fault only that I lost - or his fault for not misplaying a single bit :D
    Anyways, how to approach this MU anyways... I think of Deathblade as another Deathrite Shaman Creature Deck. Jaces are their trumps but not their main winning condition. Following this points I board in all of the removal I have access to --> 4 Swords 4 Terminus plus the sideboarded Verdicts/or any other removal. Forces out, and probably Spell Pierce (from a more generic Miracle-List) too? But with cutting Spell Pierce you can't handle a hardcast Skull or a Jace any more? If I cut the cc1-counters I am certainly bringing in anti-bgx bombs like Blood Moon, Elspeth and Baneslayer. Going this route, 0 counterspells, enables us to handle their threats first, then establish either Balance-lock or drop big white Bombs onto the battlefield. Not bringing the bombs and keeping in Pierces forces us into a 100% reactive gameplan with balance+top as our only way to win, besides a big entreat. But there also is the (high) possibility that we are getting outclassed on the battlefield by creatures like Confi/mystic - we can't just counter / kill everything.
    Postboard we might have to deal with Geist anyways, so more removal is needed here too.


    To sum it up:
    I am for boarding out all spellbased interaction and bring in all the white/red cards like Elspeth, Baneslayer, Blood Moon and more Entreat the Angles. Additionaly I opt for more removal against their creatures at the cost of only a few jace-specified answers like REB...

    How are you doing it?

    Greetings
    http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/56918

    How good is Counterbalance against these BGx decks, anyway? 2 is the hardest CMC to hit off Counterbalance, and that's the number for most of their threats. If you're going to windmill slam permanents, would spell pierce not help better than Counterbalance? Maybe Force of Will, even? I guess Counterbalance just seems best to me in matchups where Top is going to lock them out of their deck (cantrip-combo) or where things are so slow that you'll invariably get it set up and utilize brainstorm to stack your deck (mirrors, UW, etc.).

    You did say yourself that you were focused on their creatures, not their spells.

  15. #2875

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    As just previously mentioned to your post, why not play one or maybe two Scroll Rack? Grab your lands, Scroll Rack them back in, shuffle effect, wash, rinse, repeat for insane card advantage? Works well in conjunction to Top. I don't know if I agree with a couple of the 4-ofs, namely Jace and Entreat. I understand both choices, but I think for myself I would play them both as a 3-of, and a singleton Entreat in the board. If it's about synergy, I think Scroll Rack hits that word on the head in this build. I really like it. This looks like fun.

    -ABC

    EDIT::: Scroll Rack is also a good choice against heavy discard builds, at least in my experience. Between Top and Rack alongside heavy basics, you stand a good chance to lose nothing of any value.

  16. #2876

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiJoey View Post
    I love Misdirection. It does a lot to disrupt the decks we have problems with. Mainly Shardless. I don't like Baneslayer Angel at all. You know what I'd want to do with 5 mana? Make 3 Angels, not 1.
    Most decks with abrupt decay or swords to plowshares as their dedicated removal cant handle a baneslayer. Baneslayer also blocks things that gets thrown against you with jitte on, takes care of griselbrand, gives you life and can be cast around gaddock teeg, thalia and other annoying sorceryhating stuff. They are also a fast clock once online and I usually side them in against decks that tend to not be able to handle them at all. Ofc they are bad against decks that rely on jace or liliana as their line of defense.

  17. #2877
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Lastest list:

    4x Jace TMS
    4x Force of Will
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Counterbalance
    4x Sensei's Divining Top
    4x Entreat the Angels
    4x Path to Exile
    3x Land Tax
    4x Vendillion Clique
    3x Terminus

    2x Karakas
    4x Flooded Strand
    4x Tundra
    2x Plains
    6x Island
    2x Scalding Tarn
    2x Polluted Delta


    That's right, there are only FoW and Counterbalance as countersuite in the mainboard! I'm used to have 3 flusterstorm in the side among other goodies for combo. The Mainboard is made to battle Tempo decks and massive discard therefore I focused on solid mana and topdecks. Cliques are to assist Brainstorm in getting Miracles back into the deck, keeping Delver in check and to mess with Show&Tell and Infernal Tutor. The combination with Karakas is disgusting ;)

    This deck is still in development and I might switch to Tithe instead of Land Tax for the immediate effect, but having free Ancestral Recalls off Land Tax (especially in combination with Brainstorm and Jace) made me trying to solve the mana issue with Tax first and Tithe in a second session after having played the deck with Ponder instead, but both white cards look more promising because of the cardadvantage tacked onto.

    Keep you updated. I consider a red-splash


    Tithe seems generally worse. 1-mana combos into a draw 2 is mostly fine, but it basically costs you 2-mana, and a fairly specific suite of cards. It doesn't seem all that strong. I like having Land Tax to do stupid stuff, but it feels like once you et into the position where these cards are good you should be onto the 'Finding a way to kill you' plan, rather than getting a random +1.
    Quote Originally Posted by useL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by twndomn View Post
    If you pay me or give me some benefits, I might consider writing reports.
    Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
    The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einherjer View Post
    That's.... that's not how deckbuilding works.

  18. #2878
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    It doesn't really seem like the format is in a good place for Land Tax + value sorts of plays. The last SCG top 8 was Elves, Reanimator, Sneak and Show, Goblins, TES, Maverick, Dredge, and Team Italia (plus Deathrite). Nowhere in that list do I feel the need to durdle and eek out value. I'm not saying Land Tax is bad... but until the format slows waaay down, that isn't where I'd want to be.

  19. #2879
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    As just previously mentioned to your post, why not play one or maybe two Scroll Rack? Grab your lands, Scroll Rack them back in, shuffle effect, wash, rinse, repeat for insane card advantage? Works well in conjunction to Top. I don't know if I agree with a couple of the 4-ofs, namely Jace and Entreat. I understand both choices, but I think for myself I would play them both as a 3-of, and a singleton Entreat in the board. If it's about synergy, I think Scroll Rack hits that word on the head in this build. I really like it. This looks like fun.

    -ABC

    EDIT::: Scroll Rack is also a good choice against heavy discard builds, at least in my experience. Between Top and Rack alongside heavy basics, you stand a good chance to lose nothing of any value.
    I will test the Racks in some of the Clique spots.

    @Dzra
    Tbh, playing with 3-4 RIP + 2 card-disadvantage-tutors + random "toolbox" is by far more durdling than Tax & Tithe in regards to most of your mentioned decks like Elves, TES, OmniTell or even Goblins. RIP are nearly worthless here.


    @YamiJoey
    Why is Tithe a 2-mana-card? Why should an unconditional 1cc card needs a "specific suit of cards"? Tithe and Tax are awesome early to secure that you even make it to 4+ lands and being able to drop your finishers. Why do you think I'm on 4 Entreat atm, if I wouldn't want to find a finisher asap as I have access to 4+ lands then? Do you want to tell me that 1cc cards which can create cardadvantage, make up for mulligans and fight Manadenial and Discard aren't worth testing? Your post, especially the part about "Tithe and Tax are only good in situations in which you rather want an Entreat" doesn't make any sense to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  20. #2880
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    @Dzra
    Tbh, playing with 3-4 RIP + 2 card-disadvantage-tutors + random "toolbox" is by far more durdling than Tax & Tithe in regards to most of your mentioned decks like Elves, TES, OmniTell or even Goblins. RIP are nearly worthless here.
    I'll concede that perhaps I'm underestimating the value of Land Tax in making an earlier, more consistent Entreat, but it just seems like Top or even more Ponders already accomplishes that in a tighter way. Also, RIP into Helm definitely doesn't qualify as durdling (especially when your opponent has no Abrupt Decays to disrupt you). It might not be the best option for every field, but a potential T5 kill is pretty fast for a heavy control deck like Miracles. That isn't to say that I disagree with all your Entreats. I love Entreat.

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