EDIT: Here's a list by Parcher that placed well recently:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Arc-Slogger
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Gathan Raiders
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Rakdos Pit-Dragon
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Seething Song
2 Demonfire
Sideboard
4 Pyrokenisis
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Blood Moon
2 Icefall
1 Trinisphere
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Rakdos Pit-Dragon
Well, Tacosnape and I have been working on this deck for a while now. Basically, it's the best Faerie Stompy spin off I've ever seen, and is even better than FS in certain ways. Here goes:
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Dragon Stompy 2.0 created by Tacosnape
//Mana (26)
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
(Creatures - 18)
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Bloodrock Cyclops
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Flametongue Kavu
3 Razormane Masticore
1 Arc-Slogger
(Spells - 16)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Rolling Earthquake
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB:
3 Smash
4 Boil
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Blood Moon
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Card Choices
Mana - This is all pretty standard stuff for stompy decks now except for Seething Song, which allows us to go even more broken early.
Rakdos Pit Dragon - Talk about broken. This thing allows us to pull off the elusive turn 2 kill on occasion.
Razormane Masticore - Wow. My favorite creature here. Just WRECKS aggro decks, most notably Goblins. He's either a toss a card, kill two of their creatures or a toss a card, deal five damage. Either way, a bargain. Oh, and a Squee in hand makes him all the better.
Flametongue Kavu - Could be a 4 of, but I cut back to three since they occasionally suck and I wouldn't want 2 then. Against aggro, he's an insane 2-for-1 and is a nice beater against everything else. Feel free to hit a Jitte pumped Cyclops, a Razormane Masticore, or a Squee with him if you need to get him into play.
Bloodrock Cyclops - Far and away the most contested creature in the deck, and with good reason. He's a 3/3 for 3 (already crap) and he has a drawback, but we need a 3 drop, and we need it to be red. The only other options as I see it are Dwarven Patrol, Viashano Heretic, Arc Mage, and Thoughtbound Primoc. None of them seems downright stellar, and Cyclops has been ok.
Squee, Goblin Nabob - A Jack of all trades for us, Squee can be Moxen imprint, Masticore pitch, Jitte carrier, or simply chump blocker extraordinaire.
Chalice of the Void - Like FS, we can lay it at one or two and there are not many decks in the meta that aren't crippled by it. Unlike FS, we can lay Chalice @ 3 against decks thbose decks that are hit hard by it like the Rock.
Umezawa's Jitte - You might have heard of it. I'm thinking about going 3/2 with Jitte and Sword, but I haven't tested that yet, so I'll leave it be for now.
Rolling Earthquake - Used to be Pyroclasm. RE may seem a bit slower, but we actually hit 2R about the same time we hit 1R. This way the slot isn't dead vs. Thresh and combo and can be a great Mogoose killer. There is still some speculation that Clasm might be better, but with combo on the rise, I think I'd take Earthquake to an open met tourney. That is if I could afford it.
Pyrostatic Pillar - We decided on Pillar since the deck just plows through aggro. Pillar gives us 8 dedicated anti combo slots mainboard and works well with our quick clock, high mana curve, and life gain (Jitte). Also has been nice vs. Thresh in testing.
Sideboard - Seems pretty clear. 4 slots each against the top 2 combo decks with the Crypts pulling multi duty. Smash is nice anti artifact card advantage and Blood Moon is for control.
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Matchups
Goblins: Extremely Favorable
Everything in the deck except Pillar is a problem for them.
Thresh: Favorable
Tough matchup, but I've found it to be in our favor and I think Tacosnape can back me up. A ton of cards in our deck are problematic for them and even more after boarding. They can however keep us off our threats and pull out a win.
Solidarity: Slightly favorable (Possibly even against a real master)
Chalice OR Pyrostatic is a huge slowdown for them, and on occasion you can flat out outrace them with really fast Pit-Dragon shit. Post board, Boil helps more than you think. It ups your density of massively game-swinging cards from 8 to 12, and there's a good chance that resolving only one with a decent aggro draw will be enough to save it for you. If Solidarity's a real problem, sneak a couple of Scalds in sideboard.
GK Salvagers: Incredibly Favorable.
Resist the urge to Chalice for 1. Do it for 0. Chalice for 1 doesn't even slow this deck down. They'll go Salvagers, Living Wish, LED, Orzhov Guildmage, play the Orzhov, go Infinite, and kill you. Chalice for 0 should be close to game. If not, Pyrostatic Pillar is.
Iggy Pop: Tricky, but slightly favorable.
Chalice for 0 if you're going first. Drop Pillar if you can, but don't rely on it. Crypt from the board helps a lot. Sometimes you'll just randomly get exploded on and not have a shot to do anything in this match, though.
Madness: Slightly Favorable.
It should be better on paper, but it isn't. You'll lose more than a couple Bloodrock Cyclops that randomly just walk into Wild Mongrel, and Dragon Stompy doesn't have a lot to board in against it. (I've found Blood Moon, Boil, Smash, and Crypt to all be awful here.) You will win this game from Flametongue Kavus on Arrogant Wurm/Aquamoeba, however, and even with their countermagic you've got a fair chance at winning the Jitte war.
Red Death: Even.(?)
On paper I would have said this was a heavily favored match and I'm not convinced it isn't. Chalice for 1 is so golden in this, and nailing a Negator with a Flametongue Kavu is one of the most fun things ever. Yet somehow I can't seem to consistently beat this deck. I often wind up one mana source short of being able to stabilize and turn the tables. Stupid Sinkhole. (More testing to come)
Landstill: Unfavorable.
Concede game one. Board in Blood Moon and Boil. Use Boil to bait counters so you can resolve Blood Moon. Two games in a row. Yeeeah.
Random Aggro: Mostly Incredibly Favorable
The only aggro deck I've ever had any problem with is Angel Stompy (which is clearly unfavorable). Our creature base and equipment both wreck aggro and Rolling earthquake is a gamebreaker.
Random Control: Mostly Unfavorable
Control matches fall under two categories. Either they scoop to Blood Moon or they beat Dragon Stompy. (Though you can also steal random draws with 14-point Rolling Earthquakes, heh). Dragon Stompy in its current form isn't ever going to have a -good- control match (Though it takes down random Rifter decks with Squee+Jitte), as it was designed to slaughter aggro, ag-con, and combo.
Random Combo: Mostly Favorable
We run a quick clock and some solid anti combo cards mainboard.
Last edited by Phantom; 11-11-2007 at 01:32 PM.
Hee, looks fun! Is Seething Song really all that and then some though? Oh, and how is the casting cost of Rakdos Pit Dragon? Oh, and is there any extra combo hate you'd consider on the SB (say, Trinisphere?)? And what about the FS match-up itself? Are your sweepers too much or do you fold to Sword of Fire and Ice? How's the lack of any library manipulation working out for you; missing Thirst for Knowledge/Fact?
I like the look of the deck though, it gives away the flying for some incredible sweepers (Rolling Earthquake, I really like the card in this deck) and some pretty nutty beaters. Stoneshaker Shaman could be a funny idea as a 3-drop, combo-decks and Threshold are rarely able to tap out before they can go off so they'd be sacrificing a good number of lands. Probably a horrible card, but it looks funny in theory.
Yeah, this looks pretty cool and fun! I may have to put this together and try it out.
This might be a random and stupid suggestion, but how about Stone Rain/Molten Rain/Pillage in the Bloodrock Cyclops slot?
This deck looks a lit like ponza. You should do some searches on Ponza to get some ideas since you have the same game plan. For example ponza ran trinisphere which seems farily solid in here, although you don't have the land destruction part they do.
Originally Posted by Parcher
Yes. Turn 2 Razormane Masticore destroys aggro. And this happens far more often than you might think.
Plus, Seething Song allows for the ever ridiculous turn-2 kill which I've done six times, usually against decks lacking removal or against sellout combo like Iggy Pop. This kill involves the following:
1. Ancient Tomb, Chrome Mox imprinting Random Red Card, Chrome Mox imprinting Random Red Card, Rakdos Pit Dragon.
2. Mountain, Seething Song, Swing with a 10/3 Double Strike Hellbent.
No, but no suggestion is really all that random/stupid in the new/developmental forum. This deck packs no land disruption at all, and land destruction cards don't help. The only noncreature card I would consider sneaking in this deck is Control of the Court/Goblin Lore, as they're fantastic with Squee.
This slot, however, should be Bloodrock Cyclops and nothing else. He's a 3/3 that's dropped on turn 1-2 almost constantly. If a better creature with the exact cost of 2R existed, Cyclops would get replaced. But as of right now, said creature doesn't exist. The deck needs a 3-drop creature. Anything 1RR is out due to the incompatibility with Tomb/City, and Phyrexian War Beast doesn't make the cut, either, as he's not imprintable on a Chrome Mox and you can't afford the land loss with this deck ever. This makes Bloodrock Cyclops the top choice, narrowly over Shinka Gatekeeper and the 4 billion guys who aren't any bigger and can't block.
It really is. I would go so far as to say SS is to DS as Dark Ritual is to Red Death/Deadguy. First turn Razormane's are amazing, but there are so many other uses.
I was a little worried at first, but we either need to draw 2 of the 14 red sources or a single Song. Frankly, he's just too good to cut.
We had slots for 2 disruption cards and decided on Chalice and Pillar. We considered both Ankh and 3sphere in the Pillar slot, but we thought Pillar did more for us. Trini def deserves some testing, but I'm not sure it fits here.
Lol. I haven't fully tested it, but I think it's in FS' favor. Dragon stompy does have some bombs here like Razormane, Rolling Earthquake, and the Seething Song fueled Chalice @3, but pro red and FOWs are bad for us. Still, I would guess it almost even preboard, with Binding Grasp being a bomb out of the board.
The reason we're having trouble replacing Cyclops is that we need a turn one drop that can carry a Jitte turn 2 and still live (dying does us little good) so the 3 toughness is fairly big since it can swing into Mages and Confidants and Hypys and Piledrives and so on. Also, surviving a Quake for 2 is big.
I was thinking more along the lines of sideboarding additional disruption-card in Trinisphere and bringing it in for something like Squee, Earthquake or such that's decidedly mediocre in the combo MU. I definately don't suggest MDing it over either since both, Chalice and Pillar are far stronger in both, combo- and non-combo MUs, but bringing additional 3-4 hate-cards seems like it would give you a bit more solid post-board game especially since you generally want more than one resolved piece of hate since they tend to bring a variety of bounce-spells in, so you'll want to draw at least 2 different pieces generally.
Sorry, others were suggesting it mainboard and I responded to all. I would love to have some in the board that we could bring in vs Combo and possibly Thresh, but I haven't done enough board testing to say what we could cut.
As for the hand manipulation issue, it's always an issue when a deck has no real draw engine, but it hasn't killed us so far. I think we get past it by running card advantage bombs like Rolling Earthquake, FtK, Chalice, Squee (which is kind of our Trinket Mage), and even Razormane Masticore (which allows us to trade crappy hand cards for creature kill).
Since the cyclops isn't as good as it could be, couldn't you just run Phyrexian War Beast in that slot, giving you an even larger backside while not losing the 3 power?
It\'s right next to you. Use it.
In short, it has been tested.
Why not add Sword of Fire and Ice and Covetous Dragon.
If you have the mana to cast it, SOFI is better than Jitte in a deck as lacking in card draw, with Chalice and with evasive creatures like this one.
A lot of your creatures are kind of bad in comparison to Covetous Dragon anyways.
All of our creatures are kind of bad compared to Darksteel Colossus too. The only creature in this deck you can compare to Covetous Dragon is Razormane Masticore and perhaps Rakdos Pit Dragon. I would take either over Covetous. The only other creatures we run besides FtK are 3cc ans can't be replaced by a 5cc creature that can be occasionally 2-for-1'd by a disenchant/naturalize/vindicate. Still, I'll keep it in mind, although if I test it i'll prob add some artifact lands.
As for SoFI, I want to test a 3/2 split with Jitte, but there's little doubt that Jitte > Sword in this deck since we only run 3 creatures with evasion.
@ Volt: Don't you know anything? The correct knee jerk generic suggestion for this deck is Burning Wish, not Confidant. Can't believe you blew that! :)
Actually, the correct knee-jerk reaction for any deck is to run 4 more Jitte. On that note, I think you should run 8.
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This isn't meant to be a rip on the build at all, I really like what you built here and a lot of your card choices.
But why precisely would you pick Squee + Razormane over SOFI + Covetous. The ccs, the ability to pitch to Chrome Mox, everything stays the same.
The first is a very shaky combo that you have no tutoring or card draw to help you achieve. The second lets you run among two of the most efficent cards in the game.
Both serve similar roles of removal, but the second one provides card advantage and additional Jittesque beats with or without the combo.
I am also curious if the land destruction direction mentioned in the Black Stompy thread has been tested at all. Wasteland (With Mox Diamond replacing Chrome Mox) + Trinisphere/Tangle Wire + Stone Rain + Avalanche Riders can be a very powerful lock that significantly slows down most any deck.
Even without Squee, Razormane is still better in this deck then Covetous Dragom. Covetous Dragon doesn't even speed up your clock. Unblocked, they both go lethal on swing 4 (3 if equipped with pretty much anything) . It doesn't speed up your clock when you have a jitte on it. It doesn't even speed up your clock if he even ran SoFI. Why would you surrender the ability to stomp random aggro for something that doesn't even make you win faster?
Well, let's take a look at it:
Razormane vs Covetous Dragon - They both have the same toughness, and while Covetous Dragon has a point more power, they both present the same 4 turn clock. They are both vunerable to artifact hate. Dragon has evasion, while Razormane actually picks off opponents targets. I would say they're about even to this point, but here are two reasons I think Razormane's the way to go.
1) Covetous Dragon will increase the number of mulligans we have.
2) Covetous Dragon can't be powered out early safely, especially post board. The dream scenario w/ Razormane is always Tomb+Mox or Mountain+Tomb -> Seething Song -> Razormane. Covetous Dragon can't even be played in the second scenario, and god forbid the opponent have a Disenchant/Naturalize/Vindicate in the first one. We would face the suckers end of a 3-for-1 trade.
Squee vs Sword - I can personally attest to the power of Sword from my FS days, but it's not as fantastic here. Even if we run Covetous Dragon that only brings us up to 8 evasion creatures. Squee is fantastic here pulling many duties including world's best chump blocker and fantastic Jitte carrier, usually into certain death. The biggest factor here is that I'm not about to cut 3 creatures for 3 pieces of equipment. One of the reasons this deck has a good Thresh and aggro-control matchup in general is that they are not able to keep us off our beaters.
Well, off the top of my head it would look something like this:
-4 Pillars
+ 4 Trini/Tangle Wire
-4 ? (Has to be some combination of Jitte/Chalice/Rolling Earthquake)
+4 Wasteland (we can't really cut land if we are going to run Mox diamond, or cast spells)
-4 Cyclops
+4 Stone Rain (Narrow, shitty card. Wish it could be Pillage)
-3 FtK (Or pit dragon)
-1 Squee
+4 Avalanche Riders (echo sucks with Song/Tomb)
That list seems a lot worse to me. It would certainly hurt our Goblins matchup a ton.
Razormane isn't just as fast a clock as Covetous Dragon.
A.) Covetous Dragon has evasion. Razormane can be chump blocked. Hell, Dragon can block and kill Exalted Angel and Mystic Enforcer. Razormane causes you to run cards like Squee which lets face it, is not as good as you guys are making him out to be. 3 mana for a 1/1 is crappy, even if he comes back to your hand each turn. That just means that if you want him in play, you're going have to invest 3 mana each and every turn just to have a 1/1 in play. And the fact that sticking a Jitte on him makes him halfway decent is no great feat, any other creature is much stronger with a Jitte on it than Squee.
B.) This is a format defined by fetchlands and Force of Wills,. Even the few decks that don't run either run something like Ancient Tomb or Wretched Anurid or Psionic Blast. Your opponent usually deals himself the two points of damage. Besides, you can't look at the card in a vaccum. It's fairly easy to deal 8 points of damage with your other creatures, or equipment which makes Covetous Dragon a two turn clock as opposed to a 3 turn clock in the case of Razormane.
The reason I dislike Razormane is because of it's upkeep cost of discarding cards. Forcing a reverse Phyrexian Arena on yourself is a pretty big disadvantage any way you look at it, esp if you're facing a control or combo matchup where drawing into more disruption is critical. Having to pay 5 mana for it is esp bad. Maybe he would be decent as a sideboard option against aggro, but I wouldnt run him MD.
If you don't want to cut too many creatures by cutting Squee, run 2 Phyrexian War Beast and 2 SOFI. If you don't like War Beast run 2 Chimeric Idol and 2 SOFI (it's not like you have any instants you're going to cast at the end of your opponents turn anyways). Atleast those guys can hold back 2/2s all day long without forcing you to reinvest 3 mana each turn.
Actually you can easily cast Covetous in the second scenario as well. All you need to do is lead with a first turn Chalice or Jitte off of your Tomb. And that's only if you don't have Chrome Mox. As for the 3-for-1 trade, that's precisely the same 3-for-1 trade you make if your opponent Disenchants/Naturalizes Razormane following you paying your upkeep cost of discarding a card.
I'm not saying Razormane isn't good against aggro. But he is pretty bad in nonaggro matchups, and even in aggro, he's comparable, and arguably worse than Covetous Dragon and SOFI combo.
There must be at least one creature with MORPH which is better than cyclops for this deck? Intresting deck you have!
Nope.
Hulking Ogre would probably be slightly better than cyclops. Its essentially the same thing except your not required to attack every turn and potentially lose it to a bigger blocker.
info.ninja
raudo has an interesting idea here. I know Ancient Tomb is already a drain on your life points, but if you can afford the extra life-loss, Zombie Cutthroat is essentially a 3/4 for (3). I guess you need to weigh the cost of 5 life verses the creature's immunity to Lightning Bolt. Unfortunately, it still can't trade with a threshed Werebear.
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