Sorin LOI is better than garruk imo, because he can kill jace through his ultimate. I don't play LOI because I play 2 Grim Nemesis in the side already. GN can also vindicate JTMS and is overall stronger.
I think that, to be playable against miracles (and let's face it, we want to leverage advantage through planeswalkers pretty much only against miracles, other than vs fringe decks) a PW has to deal with JTMS.
Nissa and both sorins do that already very well and fast. Garruk and elspeth sort of do that, but only after many turns in which we only hope that they can't reset a board full of tokens with terminus.
Garruk/elspeth are good also in midrange matchup as well, but against those decks rhino/Sigarda win already.
At the moment, having miracles in mind, I play 2 nissa and 2 Sorin GN in my 75. I think they are the best in junk colors in that matchup.
I haven't liked kaya at all. She can't deal with Jace, and that is the thing that make me not want to play her. In the midrange match up garruk and elspeth are better imo because they help to stabilise the board in a more powerful way through a lot of tokens.
I have been questioning the need of garruk lately: he is good but I don't know if he's good enough against miracles because he is kinda slow. Someone has opinions on the matter or can make some suggestions?
I'd like to try in junk prime time as a late game 2T combo enabler. He is good in jund already so why not.
I had a discussion on the deadguy thred with tescrin. http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...idant)/page269Originally Posted by rubblekill
I think Kaya is better to grind miracels but can't deal with Jace. I feel the same.
Sorin GN seems awesome but I would rather to have a 4 mana planeswalker then 6 mana.
One thing Garruk can do that Sorin SOI can't, kill a Mentor outside ulti.
I like Sorin LOI so I can put him in the sideboard.
I went with Sneak Fit.
In the main I had a bye and also a no-show in the last round, but actual wins against BUG Delver, Maverick, and Junk Fit. Losses due to Elves, Grixis Delver, and 2 Sneak n Show.
Against Elves I won game 1 (which seems very unlikely), then punted game 2 - he had only lands in play, including Dryad Arbor and Pendelhaven. I cast Inferno Titan and only assigned one damage to the Arbor, and he responded by pumping it. He went on to have a game-winning glimpse chain on his next turn and the Dryad was essential.
One Sneak/Show opponent, I was able to put in Sneak while he put in Grisel, and then double bolt him for the win after he decided to draw 7. Matchup seems very tough and there was a LOT of it in the GP I believe - I'm surprised that the amount of DnT didn't seem to hate it out. Grixis I got Delver'ed out game 1 and then had some very poor hands game 2.
I changed my main -1 Primeval Titan, +1 Nissa VF for a challenge event Sunday (PrimeTime to side replacing a Blood Moon that I let a friend borrow). I was able to go 3-1, beating Miracles, Shardless, and DnT, losing to Eldrazi (Thorn of Amethyst on turn 1 game 2 just recked my Therapy-GSZ for Vet-Therapy line of play). Deck felt great against all those. The Eldrazi opponent was actually the same no-show player from round 9 in Day 1, so it was nice to actually get to play her.
Had a sick game 3 against Miracles. My turn 1 I cast 2 Carpet of Flowers since he led with an Island, Top. My turn 2 I cast Sneak Attack. My turn 3 I sneak in Primeval Titan, Inferno Titan, and Emrakul
I did not miss the Punishing Fire package at all, really enjoyed having Bolts against pretty much all matchups. My next deck change will probably be -1 Meren +1 Tracker, going to 2 Tracker in the main. Tracker overperformed. If Sneak/Show continues to have a strong showing, then I might add another To the Slaughter or a 3rd Thoughtseize. Sad that my 2 Surgical 1 Faerie in the sideboard never got used since I never faced Reanimator.
Hi,
I'm playing the 4C Atraxa Fit (Junk with splash U for Atraxa and Leovold), and the D&T MU is real hard for me, mainly because they play Prelate @3 blocking :
- my Pernicious deed MD
- my Maelstrom pulse MD
- my Toxic deluge post SB
- my Engineered plague post SB
So i searched for a solution, which mana cost isn't 3, and i saw Yahenni's expertise but i think it's not good enough in the Eldrazi MU (only -3/-3).
So i'll give a try to Languish !
Here's my updated list for discussion :
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck?ref=493486
Let's discuss !
Played a set against D&T using my GB build. It's a bad deck to try out the Dark Depths combo against, but even without that it did really well. Even better, they were on a build with Mirran Crusaders and I didn't really have trouble with them. Nissa is pretty amazing against D&T.
Try gaze of granite
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Massacre is a great SB card for DnT.
If you want something for the maindeck, I'd say you might want to just cut down on the sweepers and run other options. Jitte is really great against DnT and IMO it's worth it in Atraxa even if you aren't running Stoneforge, although I personally run SFM also.
My preference for the Eldrazi matchup is extra Thragtusks (also good against Burn and Miracles) or Glissa if they're super popular.
I know Massacre is a great card against D&T, but i really wanted to find a card which is not good ONLY vs D&T, but good vs Eldrazi too.
Massacre seemed too much D&T-oriented for me as Glissa, the traitor seemed too much Eldrazi-centered
That's why I spoke about Languish which seems good in the both MUs IMO
I'd rather just play Damnation. Kills Reality Smasher too.
Seriously though, Jitte is a house.
I can also see both decks having serious trouble with Peacekeeper although he does cost 3 again.
Yep Damnation kills Reality smasher too, but i like Languish cos we can keep some of our creatures alive like a Rhino, Sigarda or Primeval Titan in my case
Couldn't P-Fire have helped against Elves? They can definitely draw better than P-Fire but it's been important in the games where I've beaten elves with Sneak.I went with Sneak Fit.
In the main I had a bye and also a no-show in the last round, but actual wins against BUG Delver, Maverick, and Junk Fit. Losses due to Elves, Grixis Delver, and 2 Sneak n Show.
Against Elves I won game 1 (which seems very unlikely), then punted game 2 - he had only lands in play, including Dryad Arbor and Pendelhaven. I cast Inferno Titan and only assigned one damage to the Arbor, and he responded by pumping it. He went on to have a game-winning glimpse chain on his next turn and the Dryad was essential.
One Sneak/Show opponent, I was able to put in Sneak while he put in Grisel, and then double bolt him for the win after he decided to draw 7. Matchup seems very tough and there was a LOT of it in the GP I believe - I'm surprised that the amount of DnT didn't seem to hate it out. Grixis I got Delver'ed out game 1 and then had some very poor hands game 2.
I changed my main -1 Primeval Titan, +1 Nissa VF for a challenge event Sunday (PrimeTime to side replacing a Blood Moon that I let a friend borrow). I was able to go 3-1, beating Miracles, Shardless, and DnT, losing to Eldrazi (Thorn of Amethyst on turn 1 game 2 just recked my Therapy-GSZ for Vet-Therapy line of play). Deck felt great against all those. The Eldrazi opponent was actually the same no-show player from round 9 in Day 1, so it was nice to actually get to play her.
Had a sick game 3 against Miracles. My turn 1 I cast 2 Carpet of Flowers since he led with an Island, Top. My turn 2 I cast Sneak Attack. My turn 3 I sneak in Primeval Titan, Inferno Titan, and Emrakul
I did not miss the Punishing Fire package at all, really enjoyed having Bolts against pretty much all matchups. My next deck change will probably be -1 Meren +1 Tracker, going to 2 Tracker in the main. Tracker overperformed. If Sneak/Show continues to have a strong showing, then I might add another To the Slaughter or a 3rd Thoughtseize. Sad that my 2 Surgical 1 Faerie in the sideboard never got used since I never faced Reanimator.
Also, and you probably knew this and just had some bad draws, but if I know I'm playing against Show and Tell, I'll mulligan a little more aggressively looking for empath / Emrakul so mine gets to attack first.
Can you describe situation(s) where Tracker overperformed and how? It's a great card, just curious which matchups and situations it really shined for you.
Lastly, how was Blood Moon?
P Fire is only better if you happen to also draw a Grove. Against Elves you really want a mix of sweeper + cheap single target removal. Removing an initial 2-3 elves and then stalling for a couple of turns without continuous interaction will kill you. I also have had good success with PFire against them, but I'm thinking that Bolts do -almost- as well. Typically removing their first guy will give you time to get to enough mana for Deed, and the 2 Pyroclasms should do the same. Then you just have to continue to control the board. I need more testing against the deck for sure.
I definitely don't mulligan as aggressively as I should. Agree there. It would help my combo matchups. They go to a Through the Breach/Sneak Attack plan games 2 and 3 if they see any of our spice in game 1.
Tracker was great against junk fit, shardless, dnt from what I remember. Couple of times I decided to get him into play instead of Empath, and was not let down. One game I drew 10 cards from him. Great for any grindy game and doesn't rely on the graveyard, can also come down early. Quickly grows to block goyf or angler from what I've seen. He's also a decent clock against combo if you have them slowed down enough, and helps draw into more disruption. At least that's my idea.
Blood Moon I boarded in only a couple of times, and the one time I had in hand, it won me the game against BUG delver, locking them out of the game and saving me from a very bad board position. Unsure if I want to keep it in.
@grokh: PtE..? Combine it w/ Golgari Charm to sweep their x/1's (Mother of Runes, obviously, etc.). Works quite well.
I went and day 2'd with 4c rhinos. Ill give a quick report and a more detailed one later but I ended up going 8-7 kinda disappointingly but still happy for my first gp performance!
Matchups:
RG Lands Win
Enchantress Win
Jund depths pox thing Win
Grixis Delver Win
Mono R painter Loss
Miracles Loss
Food Chain Loss
Dnt Win
Infect Win
Miracles Loss
Burn Win
Dredge Win
Caleb scherer on Storm quickest loss of my life
Miracles Loss
Storm Loss I was soooo close to winning this one it hurt
So the only deck I played multiples of was miracles and storm which was pretty frustrating seeing how the top 100 meta was SnS and delver/leovold decks which I think we would roll the leovold decks and I personally had hella cards for SnS decks more than any other combo deck. On top of playing a lot of different decks I had never before played painter or food chian which hurt.
Other thoughts
2 Nissa was the best thing ever. Card is literally amazing in most matchups and multiples of her arent dead.
2 kaya was pretty sweet and she won me the game vs infect and was in general always good as she is just so versatile there is always a use for her in every matchups, although when you start having to kill with her it gets a little weird.
I need to test more against mentor miracles(my friend that plays it hates it so not much experience) as I won every 2/3 pre board games against them and then lost every post board game due to turn 3 clique followed by mentor(seriously every game and I think only 1 of them the player made any game actions that werent land drops before casting the clique. Was super frustrating).
Was a blast to play and day 2. Moving forward im unsure of what I would really do differently with the deck as I really liked the configuration of removal/threats/walkers and playing the 4c for leovold was so worth it as he was amazing against storm and enchantress and some of the miracles matches.
List for reference
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Siege Rhino
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Vindicate
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lost Legacy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 To the Slaughter
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Painful Truths
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
The match up in my experience comes down more to keeping their mothers and their equipment off of the table because if neither of those are on the table you can path/decay/pulse/deed at your own pace and they will eventually die. Cards like golari charm are really good against them but prelate on 3 will always be a bitch. If i was looking for a card I would look for more playable -1/-1 effects rather than wrath effect as well already play the best possible ones.
7 4-drops, 3 5-drops. That list is so top heavy. And no DRS (whilst needing 4 colours) to boot.
Out of curiosity (and please be honest): Did the manabase ever crap out on you?
And on D&T - you want your effects to be as cheap as possible, not to be more expensive. We're still playing Legacy after all. And D&T still does a good deal of mana denial. W/ Thalia, you need 5 mana for a Wrath. Add in a Rishadan Port and you're up to 6. 3 or 4 for a Golgari Charm and 2 (since you can cast it at instant speed, so screw Port) for a PtE is a lot easier to do.
I basically play the same 4c list except -2 kaya - 1 ooze + 1 drs + 1 Steve (I like him to fetch island) + tracker
I like thy list a lot, even the 3ts 3 ll in the side which help a lot against combo, but I disagree about kaya: she is the most cuttable 4 drop, and as echelon said with no further acceleration the list seems top heavy. But hey, I wasn't the one to day 2 a GP
Do you won with just Kaya aganist infect or was she only a wincon after you stop the infect player?
So, i finally found a card to test which seems good vs D&T and Eldrazi too :
Tsabo's decree
It's instant, and i often have 6 manas against D&T when the game is long. The fact it's instant allows me to cast it in response to multiple Rishadan port activations and the card empty their board and hand, by naming Human !
Gonna test this on my next tournaments !
If their mana denial is successful you'll never get to 6.
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