Don't ban Brainstorm.
But please unban every single thing on the ban list thats not blue or an artifact.
Ehh, nevermind. Just ban brainstorm already from all formats. Thanks to the existance of fetchlands, Brainstorm is for all intents and purposes an Ancestral Recall.
Of course it's not, because it wasn't presented as if it would be, nor is it, a real "solution."
I said it to lampoon the fact that the proposal of banning Brainstorm and/or fetchlands is just as poor a "solution" as the suggestion of playing Modern (if not more so).
In both cases, you arrive at something that is distinctly not Legacy and is antithetical to the very idea and purpose of the format.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
The future of Magic is just people playing and streaming Arena.
Secondary market card prices for either paper cards or MTGO objects will be completely irrelevant.
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
For those interested in the latest Ancient decks (and the format in general) visit: http://ancientmtgdecks.blogspot.ca/
For those interested in the latest Ancient decks (and the format in general) visit: http://ancientmtgdecks.blogspot.ca/
I can't speak for the person to whom you're replying, but I personally do feel like the fetch/dual action contributes to the inherent feel of eternal formats (it has been interesting playing Gifts Storm in Modern, which recently moved to a fetchless manabase, because it feels strange playing only shocks/pains/fastlands/basics). I don't think it's the only part, or even the most compelling, but I do like how it feels in Legacy. I could see why you might not find that convincing, though.
The real reason fetchlands are essential to legacy is unrelated to gameplay. The Reserved list limits the available real estate for would-be Legacy players, and fetches are essential to the format's survival until it is removed, because fetches are, in many ways, de facto dual proxies sanctioned by Wizards. Unfortunately, the nature of their design results in some knock-on effects like additional cheap/frequent shuffles that empower cantrips, which some people dislike, but ultimately they make legacy possible to play.
It isn't that fetchlands (or Brainstorm for that matter) being essential, it's about Legacy being the place where you get to play the "most powerful" cards "allowable" as 4-ofs.
Legacy is defined by exclusion, by certain cards being decidedly and demonstrably better than others. To remove things from the format solely because they are the best option, in the name of some mystical and unachievable "diversity" you are doing violence to the very foundation of Legacy, that is, the principle of excellence. I don't want to play a format where things are banned just for being "too good."
Has that happened? Yes. Do I disagree with some things that are banned? Yes.
However, just banning something because it's the best option is a race to the bottom and a recipe for a shit format. Does Brainstorm hold cards out of competitive Legacy? Yes, as it should. Do fetchlands homogenize mana bases? Yes, as they should. Why in God's name would I want Coastal Tower in my fucking Legacy deck?
If you want a format where River Boas can win tournaments again, like the "good ol' days of Legacy" go make that format for people who want that. Legacy isn't a static nostalgia trip through Magic's history. It's the iterative distillation of the "best possible."
Honestly, so many people here have swallowed so much denigration of hierarchy and like post-Modernist philosophy so long, they can't even recognize it when they regurgitate it back up. Well, I'll always be here, singing the dirge of our fallen brother Deathrite Shaman, who payed the ultimate price for our post-Modern sins.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
If there was an answer to the reserved Dual problem, would you feel the same? If "snow duals" had come into being, and we had easy access to 4X of every dual for sub $50, would the fetchlands still feel like something legacy needed?
I don't think either fetchlands or the cantrip suite are broken, but I certainly feel like the combination of the two is overpowered and would like to see it addressed somehow.
Yes, personally, I would, but I would totally play in a Legacy that has fetchlands banned, too. I'm generally pretty easy (that's why you'll see me advocate against bans in the B&R thread and for unbans - I think for the most part the format is good).
I suspect fetchlands would still be widely played if they just reprinted duals because of their functionality with cantrips, but in a world where they reprinted duals and banned fetchlands, I think that format could be interesting too. Seems like Moon Stompy would get better in that context, which I wouldn't be a fan of, but I'm sure I could deal. Probably end up playing more Elves or Miracles or something.
What is grandstanding about it? You might object (and perhaps rightly so) about the operationalization of the term, but it still fits. Lotus is unfit to be a 4-of, is does Necropotence and Mind's Desire. If you want to make a case that they are fine, you can go ahead and do that. What you imagine though, I'd guess, is that we should have a clear, empirical, objectively quantized method of determining what is alright as a 4-of and what is not. Such a thing would never and likely should never exist, even if it were possible.
It's unclear to me how to have a conversation with you though if you think that Black Lotus and Brainstorm are equivalent is any meaningful way though.
That being said, if cards that are the most efficient and most powerful for what they do aren't what define Legacy than what does? I guess if you don't want to call it "excellence" that's fine, how about a hierarchy of power-level, or hierarchy of playablity?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Every old school deck I've seen is just a collection of some of the most expensive cards available, and the decks themselves are just vehicles to put them together. If you want me to see your alpha Serra Angel, and some moxen you happen to own just show them to me. I don't need to shuffle up a deck no reasonable person can afford to see it.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)