[Deck] Faerie Stompy

[Kuma]

I agree that 100% Magic players hate their spells to be countered and countering a spell is always effective. However, the statement alters if you have to remove a Mage/Efreet/Drake/Drifter/Pestermite/Sower from the game.

Which is why you don't Force spot removal unless you really, really need the tempo.

Usually you're forcing mass removal, counterspells on Chalice, big beaters like goyf or Dreadnought, or key spells like Aether Vial, Survival of the Fittest, and Infernal Tutor/Orim's Chant/Burning Wish.

There's little point in rfg-ing a creature to Force spot removal.

Also, if your hand is threat-light, you can just imprint it on a Mox.

<Corner-case arguments for Trinisphere over Force of Will>

That's the problem with Trinisphere: It's only good when cast first turn on the play or versus a narrow subset of decks. Just because there are situations where it's good versus those decks doesn't mean that it is a generally effective card. In my experience, Trinisphere is not very effective versus any of those decks unless it's cast, you guessed it, turn one on the play.

P.S: I'm not saying that cutting FOW for Trinisphere is the right call either. All I'm saying is that there is a reason for Stompy players playing maindeck Trinispheres and (one of them) Top8ing GP.

I understand that. There have been several good posts on why Trinisphere is not a good choice for Faerie Stompy, but you could do far worse. If you're going to run it, cutting Force of Will is a terrible call. Force's merits far outweigh the bad synergy with Trinisphere.

[Clark Kant]

Every deck hates having its spells Forced.

Yes, but everytime you use FoW, you're essentially Hymn to Tourach-ing yourself and in a deck with few ways to recoup that card disadvantage.

Blue cards include most of the very best cards in the deck and you often won't see more than one or two blue cards in your opening hand. Giving up that blue card along with your FoW, to counter their spell isn't worth it in lots of situations, even to stop really good cards. Would you usually FoW a Thoughtseize, or a Hymn? Yet, those are certainly among the top 15 very best cards in the game.

[Portland]

Was a dilemma for me at the weekend too. I went for FoW and ended up 5 - 2 missing on countback. Losses were self destruct no land mull collapses or ironically floods. I did recover one flood with a topdecked mage into sigil, equip mite, swing.

I played a couple of ANT/Iggy decks and FoW backed up the chalices nicely. One particularly evil game (borded) saw me with chalice at zero, one and two. ANT went for EoT Rebuild, FoW said no and that was that. If that had been Trinni, I'd have been dead.

MisD was useful as a backup, especially against GB decks, as it becomes a 2 for 2 with tempo bonus.

[tsabo_tavoc]

<Corner-case arguments for Trinisphere over Force of Will>

Suiblack: a Thoughtseize accompanied by a Nantuko Shade makes a FOW awkward while they have to play them in separate turns under 3Sphere.

Merfolk: Under 3Sphere, if they would like to play a threat, they have to give up countering your spell or cantriping. Leaving your threats unattended or stopping their playing threats are better than countering their threats. If they had a Vial, both cards become much worse.

Sligh/Zoo: If you counter a Lightning Bolt on Sea Drake, you save them a Lightning Bolt on Trinket Mage and open your Drake to a Lightning Helix. If you counter a Tarmogoyf, you save them a Lightning Bolt on Trinket Mage and they land a Figure of Destiny. Why not just tell them play 1 spell per turn?

If you could realize Thoughtseize, Shade, Bolt, Drake, Mage, Helix, Figure of Destiny in the above examples are swapable to their equivalents, e.g., Hymn, Tombstalker, Chain Lightning, Sower, Mulldrifter, S2P, Grim Lavamancer respectively, commen sense would tell you these arguments are general.

In my experience, Trinisphere is not very effective versus any of those decks unless it's cast, you guessed it, turn one on the play.

To make some concret arguments, I will explain how Trinisphere>Force of Will versus Suiblack, Merfolk, Sligh/Zoo supposing a Trinisphere landed on Turn 3 or a Force of Will in hand after Turn 3.

To make it clearer, I meant Turn 3 3rd. Turn of oneself (not the whole game) either on one's play or on the draw.

I dont think that Trini is THAT bad. But...

Very eloquent argument, sir. FOW does do something quite solid. Whether Trinisphere works better or not is dependent on the matchup and the player oneself. FOW won you and others many games, while Trinisphere sent some Stompy players to the GP Day2 and Top8. Trinisphere deserves some respect.

[C.P.]

If 3sphere would be so good, ppl would realize it. On the contrary, 3sphere left the deck some time ago.

While I agree that Trinisphere probably does not belong in the deck(at least in MD), arguements like this can stifle innovation. Note how game changes over the year, and there may be point that 3sphere is actually justifies in the deck.

Personally, I feel it is a justifiable SB material if your meta is flooded with Land light decks with low curve. But, as pointed above, it is awful after midgame unlike chalice.

[Kuma]

To make it clearer, I meant Turn 3 3rd. Turn of oneself (not the whole game) either on one's play or on the draw.

I see. So you're talking about playing Trinisphere on your second turn after the opponent has had one or two turns.

Trinisphere can be useful then, but in all likelihood your opponent will drop land number three and keep playing. Trinisphere will buy you a minimum of one turn if you went first, but it costs you one turn to play it. Sometimes your opponent will get stuck on two land and you'll win the game because of it --- I've had that happen. But even in the early game Trinisphere buys you an average of one turn and it costs you one turn to play it. Turn one on the play Trinisphere buys you a minimum of two turns, which makes it a fantastic turn one play, but even one turn later it loses much of its power versus most decks in Legacy. I think it's a fantastic sideboard card if you have a lot of Threshold, storm, and maybe Team America in your metagame, but that's all.

Suiblack: a Thoughtseize accompanied by a Nantuko Shade makes a FOW awkward while they have to play them in separate turns under 3Sphere.

The thing about Suicide Black is that they'll play more than one spell per turn only once or twice per game. After that their hand is empty and they go into topdeck mode. Also, there's a strong chance they'll make you discard Trinisphere if they go first.

Merfolk: Under 3Sphere, if they would like to play a threat, they have to give up countering your spell or cantriping. Leaving your threats unattended or stopping their playing threats are better than countering their threats. If they had a Vial, both cards become much worse.

Trinisphere is a terrible, terrible card versus Merfolk. Trinisphere is awful against any deck running Aether Vial, because they'll play creatures with Vial and use their land for other spells. Merfolk also runs Wasteland, and having a Tomb or City wasted turns Trinisphere into their best friend instead of yours.

Sligh/Zoo: If you counter a Lightning Bolt on Sea Drake, you save them a Lightning Bolt on Trinket Mage and open your Drake to a Lightning Helix. If you counter a Tarmogoyf, you save them a Lightning Bolt on Trinket Mage and they land a Figure of Destiny. Why not just tell them play 1 spell per turn?

I boarded Trinisphere against Zoo for a while, looking for anything to swing the terrible matchup. Trinisphere was almost useless. Zoo runs around 20 land, and while Trinisphere slows them slightly, one spell per turn is more than enough for them to beat us most of the time.

It's best to save your Forces for their artifact removal. Also Forcing burn when they try to kill your creature in response to equip is huge.

If you could realize Thoughtseize, Shade, Bolt, Drake, Mage, Helix, Figure of Destiny in the above examples are swapable to their equivalents, e.g., Hymn, Tombstalker, Chain Lightning, Sower, Mulldrifter, S2P, Grim Lavamancer respectively, commen sense would tell you these arguments are general.

I wasn't talking about the specific cards as corner cases, I was talking about the situations where multiple spells are being played in a turn.

[tsabo_tavoc]

to Kuma: Excuse me for my poor wording that have baffled you twice. I meant by Turn3 one's third turn after the opponent has had two or three turns. That is to say, my argument was based on the opponent could only play 1 spell each turn (his and yours) and did not suppose him stucking on 2 lands. It is very common for a player to play multiple spells each turn multiple times since Turn3 and Turn3 is actually the turn a player starts to play multiple spells.

Your words on FOWing opponent's spells either to deny theirs or protect your CA generating tools are very appropriate. However, your situations seem to be more corner than mine.

FOW does have many advantages, most of which have been posted in the thread. The reason I started to post here is that I have noticed some misleading statements on Trinisphere from your post.

to sasa_batora: I have no idea what was going on. I would sincerely apologize to you if I have ever hurt you.

[neon_havoc]

Hey i have question why was lotus petal cut?
:X

[JeroenC]

1. We never used it.
2. It's bad, you need mana every turn- this is not a combo deck.

[neon_havoc]

I use four MB it helps me get off turn one sea drakes/anything else in the deck and if i SB in my EEs it works with them aswell. Im not seeing how its bad here.
:>

[JeroenC]

Huge card disadvantage for an effect that's just not worth it? One-shot mana seems like a really bad idea in this deck- I'm tapped out every turn, nearly.

[neon_havoc]

I dont know then my build must differ a lot more than i thought. il post it up in a bit, id also love to see what other ppl are running in the deck :]

[scrumdogg]

Alternate views on the deck are a good way to expand how people approach the archetype, but I'm not convinced that Lotus Petal effects are better than a permanent effect that generates mana - whether that is another Mox, more land, even the Shoreline Ranger. On a side note, I'm shelving the Esperzoa experiment for the moment (as of the GP Chicago GPT, where I went 2-1 beating Thresh variants x2 & losing to Scepter Chant Landstill in a close 3, didn't like the look of the field & ran Grb Aggro-Loam in the main event) for +1 Shoreline Ranger & +1 MD Crypt (missed it a lot). Also, dropped the lone SoFI for a 3rd Jitte, we'll see how this pans out. Also changed the SB to 4x ITEOC, 4x B2B, 3x EE, 3x Crypt, 1x Gilded Drake. Loaned it to a friend last Sunday, 5 rounds, he went 5-0....

[Tacosnape]

@Trinisphere vs. Merfolk:

This is why Trinisphere's a decent sideboard card. Trinisphere is horrible against Merfolk if you're going second. It's fantastic against Merfolk if you're going first. Even if you can't drop it turn one, you can drop it turn two after a Chalice-1 or a Needle on Vial.

Truth be told, this is sort of true of Trinisphere in almost every matchup ever. I think it's why I hate Trinisphere. I never seem to win more than one or two die rolls in an entire tournament.

That said, if you're going to run Trinisphere in FS, it's about 300 times better in conjunction with either Back to Basics or Winter Orb.

[neon_havoc]

Alright well like i said my list is.
lands:
1x flooded strand
4x island
2x seat of the synod
4x city of traitor
4x ancient tomb
Instants:
4x force of will
3x thirst for knowledge
Creatures:
4x pestermite
3x mulldrifter
4x sea drake
4x serendib efreet
4x trinket mage
artifacts:
x4 lotus petal
x2 jitte
x4 Sofi
x1 needle
x4 chalice of the void
x4 chrome mox
I would post my SB but i change it so much that its just meh, any way let me know what you think if anything. (id also love to see other lists aswell)

[scrumdogg]

15 land? And one of them is a fetch? With no off-color dual or any other benefit that I can see? Wow, your opponents have one piece of disruption how do you recover from it? You can afford a playset of Sea Drakes, consider investing in a few more islands

[neon_havoc]

:P i mean i feel that in adding more lands im giving up speed , im not sure though i guess i could just be geting lucky or somthing but mana has yet to be a problem for me.

[kicks_422]

I'm thinking of selling off all my (relatively cheaper) decks and investing into one good one, prefereably one with Force of Will. I've been keeping an eye on Faerie Stompy as a choice. I'll be a bit short in building the whole deck at first though... So maybe I'll run Glen Elendra Archmages over the Sea Drakes first, while I save up for the Drakes.

In a meta composed of Goblins, Rock, Ichorid, SuiBlack, Affinity, Zoo/Sligh/Burn, Dreadstill, and a whole slew of rogue decks, is Faerie Stompy a good choice?

[Tacosnape]

I'm thinking of selling off all my (relatively cheaper) decks and investing into one good one, prefereably one with Force of Will. I've been keeping an eye on Faerie Stompy as a choice. I'll be a bit short in building the whole deck at first though... So maybe I'll run Glen Elendra Archmages over the Sea Drakes first, while I save up for the Drakes.

In a meta composed of Goblins, Rock, Ichorid, SuiBlack, Affinity, Zoo/Sligh/Burn, Dreadstill, and a whole slew of rogue decks, is Faerie Stompy a good choice?

It's an average choice. Zoo/Sligh/Burn runs pretty well, as does Dreadstill. Goblins isn't too bad either. Rock is a nightmare. Ichorid is inconsistent both for you and for them, but Mulldrifter and Trinket/Crypt makes it okay, and Trinisphere from the board helps a lot. Sui Black is fair to good depending on their build (You hate Snuff Out), but some games you just flat out don't recover from fast Seize/Hymn attacks. And I don't really know how good Affinity is because I hate the deck so so much I refuse to even take the time to test against it. Instead, I carry around a playset of Energy Flux and if I even hear the word Affinity I decide that I'm going to punish everyone who plays it so brutally that they finally give up and get a real deck.

[Eldariel]

The Rock depends on their build a ton too. If their only removal is StP and Pernicious Deed, you're golden. Every removal-spell above that adds to your pissed-off level. Also, every non-basic land they run adds to your ability to punish them with Back to Basics post-board.

So if this Rock-build runs a ton of removal (like 4 StP, 3 Shriekmaw, 3 Diabolic Edict, 3 Krosan Grip, 4 Pernicious Deed or some such) and has enough basics to function perfectly under B2B, you're gonna hate the match. Otherwise, you should be ok.


As far as Affinity goes, that really depends - I'd say you have the advantage, but good Affinity-players are so hard to find that the conclusions are hard to reach. All I can say is that Pithing Needle (Plating, Ravager or Vial if you have Chalice at 2), Chalice at 2 & Sower are fcking huge.