Crimhead, that scenario's exactly what I was asking. I also think, though, that a lot of the decks that were performing well against Miracles are still performing well, so I think it's worth comparing.
What I'm trying to figure out is how much of the decks' new dominance is just a result of the disappearance of another top-flight contender. It's only been a few weeks, after all, and the consensus for at least some of those decks seems to be that big changes aren't really necessary.
This might all be a fool's errand: excellent Miracles players might have just picked up other decks with which they were familiar and kept rocking tournaments, a lot of people running other decks with Top might have run for higher ground, etc. I just think that at this stage there are more factors than "a predator is gone" for the reason decks that were competing for the top slots before the ban (and haven't changed much since) are getting a larger share of top-8 results.
Fox, you're right that sideboards and manabases are changing. I just wonder how much those changes are really making a difference.
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Originally Posted by TsumiBand
Deathrite doesn't do that much to Dredge, it slows them down a little, but if DRS is your only interaction you're not winning over 50% of the time. 2 Surgical is ok, but also not great. It's enough to filter Dredge out of the top rounds, but not enough to stop them from spiking any smaller tournament.
Deathrite and surgical aren't nearly enough to convince me to not play dredge. Just sayin, play what you want/know and worry less about the variables is a fine strategy. Magic players have become so convinced by the internet whats safe and not safe to play its fucking pathetic.
This is something I can agree with
What is Street Wraith, the post.
;b
This actually helps Dredge immensly, having to prepare for just DRS and Surgical is way easier to having to deal with them and also rip.
Playing 4 firestorm and 4 SW should already be enought.
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
Dredge really only needs to be afraid of leyline, rest in peace, and cage.
Most people don't even take the right card with surgical anyway.
-rob
The current problem for Dredge isn't Deathrite and Surgical being ubiquitous. It's that Miracles is now gone, and no deck has stepped up to take it's place. Grixis is by far the most played deck. But the big plus and minus for Grixis is it has no direct path to victory. So there is no linear way to attack it. So without a best deck that a sideboard can be tuned toward, most players are fleshing theirs out by expanding existing slots. Instead of 2 Pyroblast they run 3. And instead of 2 Surgical, 1 Cage, they've added a second. In the aggregate, this adds to a huge problem. Especially in cantrip decks with multiple ways to find them. Even more so because they are two completely different axis' of hate Dredge needs to prepare for.
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One trend (possibly & preliminarily) I'm seeing in recent events, compared to late Top meta and very early Top-less meta, is that Bant Deathblade and Czech Pile, AKA 4-color monstrosities, might be experiencing a drop-off.
Seeing the top 16 from this weekends SCG Legacy event just made my pants seem tighter for some reason. If this is the type of stuff people will be playing now, I'm in!
Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer
So, in the last day we've gotten top 16s of
SCG Louisville with:
Jund Depths
Infect
Food Chain
Grixis Delver
U/B Landstill
Belcher
BUG Delver
Grixis Delver
Maverick
Sneak and Show
Elves
Shardless BUG
Aggro Loam
Sneak and Show
Eldrazi
B/R Reanimator
And the MTGO Legacy Challenge with:
Elves
Dragon Stompy
Infect
Food Chain
Dark Depths
Grixis Delver
BRUG Cascade
Topless Miracles
Czech Pile
ANT
U/R Delver
Death and Taxes
Sneak and Show
Aluren
Death and Taxes
BUG Delver
Gawjus.
I like it better than this so far
I must agree that's a fine looking spread! It's promising to see 3 control archetypes that might have what it takes to be strong in the new meta.
Sad to see no aggro still. But Burn will always "under-achieve" (being unpopular among seasoned players). Maybe if there is an uptick in Legacy's popularity we can get some Affinity players migrating from Modern.
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Also a recent mtgo event had three miracles decks at 5-0
Are we on denial, or is this an echo chamber? There's no control, not even close. The 4cc (or that screw-up name czech pile) is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.
The result can be interpreted as in flux. It's mostly combos vs tempos vs people trying to figure the meta. I expect something similar in the GP.
Standstill is not control? Ok. That's news.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
What, you didn't realize that? There was never a control deck in MtG's history until Miracles came around in Legacy. Even Brian Weissman, damn him to hell, ran SERRA ANGELS! You don't run dastardly creatures in a control deck!
At least, that's what I've understood from reading over these threads
Lets be real here if you're running creatures bigger than a 2/x you're playing an aggro deck.
First italian big event since the banning
Pretty sick metagame over here
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
4 color baleful strix aggro
UB creeping factory midrange
^Fixed the nomenclature:
Lands Midrange 1
Ad Nauseam Tendrils 2
Tezzeret Midrange 3
Aluren 4
BUG Midrange 5
Grixis Pyromancer 6
4c Midrange 7
Death and Taxes 8
To be fair: The so-called BUG Control is Shardless BUG. If that's not Midrange, I am losing it right now...
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