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Thread: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

  1. #641

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    4 Wasteland
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 Mishra's Factory
    6 Mountain

    4 Mox diamond
    4 Grim monolith

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Tangle Wire
    4 Magus of the moon
    2 Koth the Hammer
    2 Godo Bandit Warlord

    2 Batterskull
    1 Jitte
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Phrexian Metamorph

    SB
    2 Spine of Ish Sah (Sneak show) uw control?
    3 Phyrexian Revoker (Storm, Bant, Mavrick, more if I think about it)
    2 Cursed Totem (Mavrick, Bant)
    2 Relic of Progenitus (dredge, gy based stuff)
    1 Tormod's Crypt (storm,gy based stuff)
    3 Silent Arbiter (tribes, Ichorid)
    2 Impending Disaster (UW control, turbo eldrazi, lands)

    So its been a little bit since my last update, overall my list has been preforming well, especially against the decks I have expected to see. The build has worked as expected against miracles, although impending disaster was not as great as I hoped, a bit of a win more. Silent arbiter has only disappointed me against affinity, which might just be the decks worst match up.

    So some cards are on the bubble and here as some thoughts...

    should the tanglewires be revokers? should the wires then be in the board?

    How do I attack "fair" manabases better?

    Do I need to do something to be better prepared for BUG?

  2. #642
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by dillonkbase View Post

    How do I attack "fair" manabases better?

    Do I need to do something to be better prepared for BUG?
    Tangle Wire should do the trick against fair manabases. Slow them enough then resolve your bombs.

    As for BUG, take advantage of their greedy manabase. Denial with mana suppressor should slow them enough for you to resolve your bombs. Also, Trinisphere is okay against them (siding out Tangle Wire)
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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    You have been kicked out of the game.

  3. #643
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I've been thinking about the Godo build, and started to compare it to imperial painter and dragon stompy. Like dilonkbase, I've started running moon effects (blood moon instead of magus of the moon).

    Imperial Painter is very well positioned in the meta, and in my opinion, that is due to the moon effects and goblin welder. I was already running Moltensteel Dragon and in testing, it's been incredible with Blood Moon. Suddenly, firebreathing becomes so much more dangerous.

    I am cutting Metalworker entirely due to the higher number of red cards which are:

    3 Blood Moon
    2 Moltensteel Dragon (red artifact)
    2 Goblin Welder
    2 Bonfire of the Damned
    3 Godo, Bandit Warlord

    The MUD mirror is nearly impossible to lose. I run 2 Shattering Sprees in the sideboard, and my 2 Goblin Welders make the match-up very unfair.

    One of the more exciting games during my tests was when I was facing a board with Lightning Greaves into Metalworker into Kuldotha Forgemaster into Blightsteel Colossus. I chump with Batterskull and he passes the turn. I Shattering Spree the Lightning Greaves, resolve Karn and exile Blightsteel Colossus. After that I quickly win the game.

    I am convinced that Blood Moon is very correct in the current meta. If you look at the BUG manabases, they run 4 wasteland, 10 fetch and a bunch of duals. Abrupt Decay is their only out and that costs 2 non-red mana. It's nearly impossible to lose when you resolve it because the fetchlands suddenly don't feed Deathrite Shaman anymore.

  4. #644
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Do I need to do something to be better prepared for BUG?
    I've been doing alot of playtesting and tuning to try and figure out how to best improve this matchup. I started out using 2 Tangle Wire, which was solid... but I'm actually running 4 Thorn of Amethyst maindeck instead (now), which have been amazing. The difference between 2cc and 3cc is absolutely huge, particularly when it comes to resolving disruption on turns 1-2 instead of turns 2-3. Between Thorns, Lodestones, Wastelands, and the occasional Sundering blowout, the taxing angle has been working very well for me against most decks.

    The Thorns are mostly dead against Goblins, and only mediocre against something like Maverick, but I've been happy with them against everything else. In my most current build, they are almost completely 1-sided, too.
    Last edited by Hanni; 01-01-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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  5. #645

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post

    I am cutting Metalworker entirely due to the higher number of red cards which are:.
    but metalworker loves bonfire very much, it sweeps the board and gives a punch to your opponent. Very controlish. Plus i feel it makes karn liberated easier to drop, wich i also like because of the control kill anything option.

  6. #646
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Holland View Post
    but metalworker loves bonfire very much, it sweeps the board and gives a punch to your opponent. Very controlish. Plus i feel it makes karn liberated easier to drop, wich i also like because of the control kill anything option.
    This is true, though i feel it is not necessary. I still frequently generate bonfires of up to 6 without miracle nor metalworkers which should be enough to kill everything. What i like about thran dynamo is its immunity to abrupt decay and creature removal. That said, I think metalworker is still viable and it definitely helps to get Karn or Godo out quickly. Another thing I'm considering is to reduce the number of cavern of souls, but this depends largely on my mix of magus of the moon versus blood moon. With magus, cavern on humans will ensure Godo and magus resolves, but I really dislike the fact that miracles runs a lot of basics (plowshares), and rug has bolts to deal with magus. Cavern of souls sometimes screws with my bonfires and my blood moons, so basic mountains seem better to me.

  7. #647
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Here's my current build:

    //Maindeck 37

    2 Goblin Welder
    2 Bonfire of the Damned
    3 Blood Moon
    3 Godo, Bandit Warlord
    3 Batterskull
    2 Moltensteel Dragon
    4 Lodestone Golem
    1 Duplicant
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Lightning Greaves
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice / Sword of War and Peace
    1 Voltaic Key
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Thran Dynamo
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Karn Liberated
    //LANDS 23
    10 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Mouth of Ronom
    4 Cavern of Souls / Mountain / Utility
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    ---
    //SB - Depends on meta, but a selection of:
    2 Magus of the Moon (BUG/Lands/RUG Delver)
    2 Sulfur Elemental (Maverick, Lingering Souls, jace/elspeth/liliana but only when combined with lingering souls)
    4 Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast (SnT/Miracle Control/Spiral Tide/Stoneblade/Esperblade)
    2 Shattering Spree (affinity / mirror)
    2 Bonfire of the Damned (elves, maverick, d&t, other aggro oriented matchups)
    3 Thorn of Amethyst (Spiral Tide/Tendrils variants)
    3 Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus (Dredge/Relic against KotR/Mongoose/Deadrite Shaman/Tarmogoyf)
    1 Grafdigger's Cage (Zombardment/Dredge/Snapcaster Mage/NicFit&Maverick GSZ/)
    2 Phyrexian Revoker (Walkers such as Jace, Sensei's Divining Top, Pernicious Deed)

    Greaves is back in because it protects against spot removal and it helps speed the clock up. I often Drop a batterskull first, and a Godo second, fetching Lightning Greaves and attacking with batterskull twice. Duplicant and Phyrexian Metamorph are both Shapeshifters for Cavern of Souls.

    EDIT:
    I'm also considering Rimescale Dragon as a one-off. Rimescale Dragon can completely take over aggro matchups, and it can drop via SNT and tap Emrakul indefinitely. Problem is, 7 mana prone to Plowshares.

    EDIT 2:
    I tried Conch Horn, and I didn't like it.
    Last edited by bruizar; 01-05-2013 at 04:35 AM.

  8. #648
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I am currently testing +1 Unstable Frontier -1 Cavern of Souls. This is to fix mana, save city of traitors from self-destructing and to dodge wasteland. If I would play more of these, I might even be able to get away with sideboarding a Snuff Out or Submerge or Reverent Silence (enchantment hate is absent in red) since I can now meet the condition.



    Alas, doesnt work against wasteland. Works to save city of traitors but thats not enough.

    Perhaps karakas, tower of the magistrate ir dustbowl
    Last edited by bruizar; 01-05-2013 at 03:58 PM.

  9. #649
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Hello, hello,

    I've followed this thread for a while now, first time posting in it, as well as on the source. Played at my LGS's monthly Legacy event and wound up 4-0'ing. It was a small field of sixteen or so of us, a mix of people both new to the format and well experienced. I'd played the deck in two previous events and tweaked it a little bit each time until I arrived at this list:

    Maindeck:

    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Thran Dynamo
    3 Metalworker
    3 Voltaic Key

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lodestone Golem
    1 Trinisphere
    3 Phyrexian Revoker

    4 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Steel Hellkite
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    2 Batterskull

    3 Staff of Nin
    1 Karn Liberated

    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Wasteland
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    2 Crystal Vein
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Mutavault
    3 Rishadan Port

    Sideboard:

    2 Sphere of Resistance
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    3 Precursor Golem
    2 Steel Hellkite
    1 Batterskull
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Myr Battlesphere
    2 Trinisphere
    1 Oblivion Stone

    Round 1:
    Dredge, 2-1 - Magically won game one, this was mostly due to the dredge player's inexperience with dredge. Game 2 dredge does what it does, and in game 3 my sideboard plan, plus robots did the job. In this matchup I overload on sphere effects, deprive the mana base of the dredge player, and bring in Precursor Golem to get blockers online early. I was also able to use the old animate your factory, and then waste it to exile a bridge which was handy. Pretty sure I need dedicated hate in this match up though.

    Round 2:
    Merfolk, 2-0 - Pretty straightforward here, the miser's cavern of souls did a lot of work, and the threat quality is just very good. I was particularly impressed with voltaic key in tandem with Staff of Nin, and Mishra's Workshop/Mutavault. Pumping your mutavault, untapping factory then pumping vault again (while it has the bonus from Lord of Atlantis) is pretty great. Steel Hellkite is also a beating to the merfolk player here.

    Round 3:
    BUG Tempo (Shardless Agent Variety), 2-0 - Staff of Nin with Voltaic Key again! Hell on wheels for Deathrite Shamans, and Planeswalkers. Incidently Deathrite Shaman, and Planeswalkers are great targets for Phyrexian Revoker. Too many threats for the BUG deck to handle, additionally, most of my opponent's removal was in the form of Pern Deed, Abrupt Decay, Jace TMS, or Liliana, all of which are rough against 6 Mana plus threats backed by Revoker.

    Round 4:
    RUG Delver, 2-1 - Game one he scoops to a Turn 2 Chalice on 1, I lose game three with a very threat light hand (loose keep), then in Game three the combination of Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere, and Lodestone + Wasteland lock him out entirely.

    All in all a deck I really enjoy playing.

    Staff of Nin is definitely Staff of Win, and Crystal Vein is much better than it seems. I'd find myself pretty much always wanting to see some kind of Sol Land in my first two turns. Although it's not ideal, Crsytal Vein helps ensure you can run a Monolith out Turn 1, or Golem Turn 2 is or Metalworker Turn 2, Chalice Turn 1, Spheres, etc. all early and on time.

    I'd been finding Buried Ruin not so useful, and slow. So I replaced them with Veins and the Cavern of Souls. Ports while good, I didn't want to see every game, so I trimmed one for the Mutavault.

  10. #650
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    If liliana is going to continue to be a ubiquitous card in the meta, i will probably sideboard wurmcoil engine again, in order to blank the -2 of liliana. I already run 2 goblin welders so the +1 is not going to do much.

  11. #651
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    How were Wurmcoils for you Cross Game? I love the overall look of the thing for the Mono Brown list.
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  12. #652

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Grats on the finish with the Stompy list. I'm glad to see people still playing it (I'm actually thinking of pulling it out of the box soon again for the Edison SCG). Buried Ruin is very good against the other midrange decks (Stoneblade and Maverick primarily but any deck with permission and a slow clock is fine). I used to run Vein but I found it was a liability. Buried Ruin is actually one of my most powerful cards and only against RUG did I find it too weak. You should play in bigger events to make changes. Small metagames usually give bad indications because the metagame is degenerate (everyone know what each other is playing).

    How is Sphere of Resistance? I had considered it many times but I thought it would be too punishing. I assume it is for the Delver match ups. I have always found Thorn to be good but considered Sphere as well.

    I noticed you cut all the All is Dust. Was it not good enough?

    You should play the 4th Revoker. It is one of the most powerful cards in the deck still.

  13. #653
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    @noobslayer - I've found Wurmcoil to be quite excellent. Foremost it's resistance to Liliana is great, and find that lifelink is often hugely relevant in racing, and offsetting the effects of Ancient Tomb. The main detraction is that it costs 6 which can be an awkward number for this deck. Also, it fails the Jace test, but basically everything does in this deck anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirath View Post
    Grats on the finish with the Stompy list. I'm glad to see people still playing it (I'm actually thinking of pulling it out of the box soon again for the Edison SCG). Buried Ruin is very good against the other midrange decks (Stoneblade and Maverick primarily but any deck with permission and a slow clock is fine). I used to run Vein but I found it was a liability. Buried Ruin is actually one of my most powerful cards and only against RUG did I find it too weak. You should play in bigger events to make changes. Small metagames usually give bad indications because the metagame is degenerate (everyone know what each other is playing).

    How is Sphere of Resistance? I had considered it many times but I thought it would be too punishing. I assume it is for the Delver match ups. I have always found Thorn to be good but considered Sphere as well.

    I noticed you cut all the All is Dust. Was it not good enough?

    You should play the 4th Revoker. It is one of the most powerful cards in the deck still.
    Thanks! The previous events at my LGS have had significantly greater attendance, but one of the more interesting things is how frequently many of the attendees change the decks they play monthly. It's more likely that folks will know that someone leans toward combo, or loves playing islands, but less of an idea what they're actually running. Although I've run this list now three months in a row, most folks still have no idea what I'm playing when I sit down across from them, even when I lead with a voltaic key. I definitely look forward to the opportunity to play in a larger event.

    I'm totally open to including buried ruin again, somehow, I've managed to dodge the Maverick matchup every time so I have no experience there.

    Sphere has been excellent for me. In the delver matchups it certainly shines, but it's great against burn, and especially miracles. BUG decks also have a very hard time dealing with it. When I bring in the spheres I side out chalices usually (depending on if it's RUG i'm playing) and a some of the 6cc spells , which reduces the impact of the taxing effect. Generally speaking though, I don't find it too punishing since the deck can go incredibly over the top with mana generation, and the opposing deck can't handle only being able to play one spell a turn, and usually one of low impact compared to those I'm casting.

    With All is Dust, the honest truth is I didn't have them! So I haven't tried them out yet, although, in some of the matchups I might imagine I'd want them, it strikes me as a little slow. Out of curiosity, have you ever used them in an enchantress matchup? Seems like a great way to get problematic enchantments off the board.

    Definitely considering playing the 4th Revoker, that card is a champ!

  14. #654
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    I'm interested in trying this archetype out, especially since it seems like a combo hating version of Nic Fit (which is good for me, amazing even).

    My list is probably all over the place, so I'm all ears.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Vesuva
    3 Crystal Vein
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Buried Ruin

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Sphere of Resistance

    4 Metalworker
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Kuldotha Forgemaster

    1 Staff of Domination
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    1 Lightning Greaves

    2 Nevinyrral's Disk
    3 Crucible of Worlds

  15. #655

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    I'm interested in trying this archetype out, especially since it seems like a combo hating version of Nic Fit (which is good for me, amazing even).

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Vesuva
    3 Crystal Vein
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Buried Ruin

    3 Crucible of Worlds
    I think if you are playing 3 crucible you should definitely be playing mox diamond, wasteland, and city of traitors. I'd try to keep a man land or two, but I think you could pass of the ruin's and veins for sure.




    As for Liliana, I've found godo for batterskull a great out for that situation.




    Has anyone tested price of glory in godo mud? http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...9973&type=card

  16. #656
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    I'm interested in trying this archetype out, especially since it seems like a combo hating version of Nic Fit (which is good for me, amazing even).

    My list is probably all over the place, so I'm all ears.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Vesuva
    3 Crystal Vein
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Buried Ruin

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Sphere of Resistance

    4 Metalworker
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Kuldotha Forgemaster

    1 Staff of Domination
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    1 Lightning Greaves

    2 Nevinyrral's Disk
    3 Crucible of Worlds
    Also I don't like cloudpost, since it comes into play tapped and doesn't accellerate into turn 1 Chalice/sphere or turn 2 Trinisphere: this deck doesn't need the massive amount of mana needed to play eldrazi, but wants to hit 2-3 mana on the first 2 turns ever. So I think I'll switch cloudpost for city of traitors and vesuva for wasteland which is insane with trini/lodestone/sphere (moreover if you keep 3 crucible maindeck).
    On the other note i think your list is quite threat-lite: basically you win only with kuldotha into blightsteel or kuldotha into staff with metalworker in play; lodestone is an heavy beater only if the opponent doesn't have creatures, otherwise you'll find yourself pretty often not attacking being afraid to trade and to loose the taxing effect.

    I think that MUD basically has three forms (although there are variants): combo (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post687380), stompy (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post677433) and prison.
    Summarizing in a phrase
    Combo: you want to cheat into play a big robot that seals the game in 1 or 2 attacks.
    Stompy: you want to play mid range threats during the early game while delaying opponent's early game to the mid game.
    Prison: you want to lock the board so that your opponent can't do anything while you wait for your finisher

    Your list seems an hybrid between Combo and Prison, but the problem I see is that you don't have an hardlock (like recurring tangle wire or smokestack+trinisphere) nor a way to deal with permanents (aside of disk which can be devastating for you since you only play permanents) and you can't afford to ignore opposing creatures because you only have the colossus able to do so.

    Hope this may help ;)


    EDIT:
    the links don't refer to decklists but to posts about the philosophy (the one I think of) of the deck.

  17. #657

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Game View Post
    I'm totally open to including buried ruin again, somehow, I've managed to dodge the Maverick matchup every time so I have no experience there.

    Sphere has been excellent for me. In the delver matchups it certainly shines, but it's great against burn, and especially miracles. BUG decks also have a very hard time dealing with it. When I bring in the spheres I side out chalices usually (depending on if it's RUG i'm playing) and a some of the 6cc spells , which reduces the impact of the taxing effect. Generally speaking though, I don't find it too punishing since the deck can go incredibly over the top with mana generation, and the opposing deck can't handle only being able to play one spell a turn, and usually one of low impact compared to those I'm casting.

    With All is Dust, the honest truth is I didn't have them! So I haven't tried them out yet, although, in some of the matchups I might imagine I'd want them, it strikes me as a little slow. Out of curiosity, have you ever used them in an enchantress matchup? Seems like a great way to get problematic enchantments off the board.

    Definitely considering playing the 4th Revoker, that card is a champ!
    If you don't need em don't play em. As I said, Buried Ruin is best against slower decks. It is useless against combo and the fast aggro most of the time. You might have a situation where your opponent stumbles and you can take advantage of an early counterspell or removal spell but usually this is not the case if you don't already have them locked out.

    That is good to hear about Sphere. I've wanted to play them for a while now so I think I will put them in my board since Thorn has always not been good enough against RUG.

    I rarely have problems with Dust. It tends to be a fairly versatile and reliable spell; granted I only run 1 maindeck and 1 in the board right now. And yes, I have cast it against Enchantress. It's glorious.

  18. #658
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Anybody saw Goblin Scrapper? http://www.mtgsalvation.com/gatecrash-spoiler.html#6716 Maybe nice tech for some Blood Moon MUD but not very good with Magus if opponent has blocker.

  19. #659
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    I'm interested in trying this archetype out, especially since it seems like a combo hating version of Nic Fit (which is good for me, amazing even).

    My list is probably all over the place, so I'm all ears.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Vesuva
    3 Crystal Vein
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Buried Ruin

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Sphere of Resistance

    4 Metalworker
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Kuldotha Forgemaster

    1 Staff of Domination
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    1 Lightning Greaves

    2 Nevinyrral's Disk
    3 Crucible of Worlds
    If you want to load up on resistors (spheres), I would suggest running more than four man-lands. Possibly Mutavault (just like Vintage's Terra Nova lists).

    Also with your list, I would switch Crystal Veins with Deserted Temple
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
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  20. #660
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    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Mutavault
    3 Deserted Temple
    4 Rishadan Port

    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Basalt Monolith
    4 Icy Manipulator
    3 Voltaic Key

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Sphere of Resistance

    3 Lodestone Golem
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Karn, Silver Golem

    3 All is Dust

    Lots of Redundancy in terms of Ramp and Denial of Resources with Manlands and Karnifacts as win cons. How does this look now?

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