[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[.dk]

yeah did not really give much thought on the Discards. Maybe go for 3 Therapy 3 Unmask and cut the Thoughtseize.

The Voyage other than the Chain of Vapor can bounce Chalice on 1. And i just take it in as a Answer to everything if needed.

Either way, if you're going that route, then I don't think 2 Griselbrand is enough. Personally, I think overloading on discard is just fine, and using those to discard a griselbrand from your hand in place of Entomb. Since they double as protection, I generally have had better success with them than Careful Study in this deck.

Also, particularly since you're running Unmask, you have to pay attention to your black card count to be able to pitch to it. So, looking at your original list, I would probably run 3 Unmask, 3 Therapy, 0-1 Chrome Mox, and 3-4 Griselbrand. Could also easily swapping 1 Reanimate for another Collective Brutality or a maindeck Sword to Plowshares or something since Deathrite is so ubiquitous right now.

[ElDorte]

Went 2-1-1 yesterday due to bad luck of me and slowplaying opponents (would have won that game we drew in 1-2 Turns)

1-1 Kess Pile. Here the Time took away my win would have won that on the back of Mentor.

2-0 Most. Not much he could do. I gave him the Turn 1 and the Turn 2.

2-0 BUG Delver. Game one i killed him on turn 2 and game 2 he mulliganed to a "good" hand with only a Wasteland. (force, Fluster, Surgical) but i had all the Time to foght trough it.

2-1 Big Eldrazi. He knows what i play. He goes Chalice 1 Chalice 2 in his first 2 Turns. Game 2 i gave him the 22. Game 3 was really Grindy. If i ever would have draw a Therapy (had Mentor) i would have won.

The Voyages where great against Eldrazi. But other that never came up.

[ElDorte]

Good Morning Tin Friends.

As for now i decided to play more Tin Fins than in the past. I always pick it up and really enjoy it but then for tournaments lay it down in favor of TES or something else. And whenever that happens and i pick the deck back up i see how rusty i got with it. So i will play more Tin Fins in the upcomming weeks and summarize my observations. And i try to get it together on Modo to stream 1-2 a week.
That to myself.

Have you guys ever tested Jace, Vryns Prodigy or Search for Azcanta? Both cards look pretty interesting and seem to fit well into the deck. The Search is maybe a bit slow. I dont know yet.

[.dk]

Good Morning Tin Friends.

As for now i decided to play more Tin Fins than in the past. I always pick it up and really enjoy it but then for tournaments lay it down in favor of TES or something else. And whenever that happens and i pick the deck back up i see how rusty i got with it. So i will play more Tin Fins in the upcomming weeks and summarize my observations. And i try to get it together on Modo to stream 1-2 a week.
That to myself.

Have you guys ever tested Jace, Vryns Prodigy or Search for Azcanta? Both cards look pretty interesting and seem to fit well into the deck. The Search is maybe a bit slow. I dont know yet.

Acclimation tried JVP maindeck did a couple of years ago (in place of LDV if I remember correctly) and didn't like it all that much. I thought it was pretty strong against Miracles as well - maybe it still is. Just played a 1 of as an Entomb/Reanimation target. I think it's far less good against Czech Pile though.

Search for Azcanta - haven't tried that anywhere yet, although I want to. However, 3 cmc seems a bit much for that effect in this deck.

/edit: whoops, Search is 2 CMC. The impulse effect on the land side is 3 mana to activate. THAT seems like a bit much. Seems fun, but likely weaker than other options.

[ThomasDowd]

Any one have any arguments on why to play tin fins over rb?

[ElDorte]

Because its more fun.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Brainstorm, goes infinite, can actually win on turn 1.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[.dk]

Any one have any arguments on why to play tin fins over rb?

0 reasons. Red is far superior to blue.

[Dr_D]

Sealab references.

[ElDorte]

Hey Guys.

Gonna play some Fins tonight and start Streaming this week or next week due to my holidays. The list im gonna play is pretty close to ZeDan's list.

2 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Children of Korlis
1 Collective Brutality
4 Dark Ritual
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Entomb
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Griselbrand
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Lotus Petal
3 Ponder
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave
3 Unmask

Sideboard:

4 Mentor
1 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Needle
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Serenity
1 Cavern of Souls

How did your testing go with Carefull Studys?

[Kobra_D]

Any one have any arguments on why to play tin fins over rb?

I play RB Tin Fins which looks mostly like a reanimator deck swapping animate dead for shallow grave, and the 2 flex fatty slots for 1 Emrakul and 1 Children of Korliss.

Some hands are weaker because you can end up with Emmy in your opener, but it opens the opportunity to win the turn you reanimate. RB can end up in a spot where you T1/T2 reanimate and find yourself staring at an opposing StP/Karakas/baleful strix.

I've played both in side events of larger tournaments but have never made it to anything with more than 4 rounds.

[nimkee]

I went 2-1 last night with that mono black version out of japan running the angel over child and grim tutor. I beat up on omnitell and lands before losing to pox.

Lost to a bridge 2 games in a row. If I had had a single goryos in the list I would have won but there were some titans above the grizzle so shallow grave didnt get it done.

The ramp sideboard plan of lake and monoliths worked surprisingly well.



Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk

[Kobra_D]

I know a lot of people are on the transformation to a mentor sideboard, but mentor hasn't been as good in the RB version due to a lack of cantrips.

So, instead, I've been trying a Jund list with the SB as follows:

3 Reverent Silence
3 Ground Seal
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Coffin Purge
1 Grave Titan


All the cards have proven relevant at times but it also feels a bit heavy handed. The coffin purge in lieu of surgical extraction mostly to be cute against storm but otherwise doesn't make a difference.

Does anyone have thoughts, ideas? I'm sure there are matchups that I am neglecting and have kind of tailored this to my locals but what if I went to a bigger event in a blind meta?

Thanks for the help.

[.dk]

I think we talked about Ground Seal a few pages back? Or maybe I'm remember a conversation or something... I think it's *almost* good in this deck. It warps your maindeck construction to not including Goryo's Vengeance and Reanimate - assuming you're running a maindeck without those cards, then Ground Seal's inclusion is probably fine. If not, given that you're running a heavy green commitment, I would consider running City of Solitude in those slots. Also, what is ratchet bomb for? That seems like an odd inclusion to me.

[Kobra_D]

I think we talked about Ground Seal a few pages back? Or maybe I'm remember a conversation or something... I think it's *almost* good in this deck. It warps your maindeck construction to not including Goryo's Vengeance and Reanimate - assuming you're running a maindeck without those cards, then Ground Seal's inclusion is probably fine. If not, given that you're running a heavy green commitment, I would consider running City of Solitude in those slots. Also, what is ratchet bomb for? That seems like an odd inclusion to me.

Yeah, I got the idea for ground seal a couple pages back around August? September? Not sure, but it was from another individual on this thread.

My maindeck runs 4 shallow grave, 4 exhume, and 4 reanimate. Boarding in groundseals just mean that I board out reanimates. The main deck doesn't need to be warped (I guess the warp is I've swapped goryo for exhume).

City of solitude does seem sweet. It does cost three which looks like a problem but I would only bring it in in grindy match ups I suppose. I'm willing to give that a try.

The ratchet bomb was for.... um.... random clean up? Helps with czech pile, d&t, delver variants, stone blade. It's not great but when shit hits the fan it was a fine inclusion. It could just be another abrupt decay and I would likely be fine.

So, nothing super obvious that's missing? The mentor plan was way easy to board with.

[.dk]

Yeah, I got the idea for ground seal a couple pages back around August? September? Not sure, but it was from another individual on this thread.

My maindeck runs 4 shallow grave, 4 exhume, and 4 reanimate. Boarding in groundseals just mean that I board out reanimates. The main deck doesn't need to be warped (I guess the warp is I've swapped goryo for exhume).

City of solitude does seem sweet. It does cost three which looks like a problem but I would only bring it in in grindy match ups I suppose. I'm willing to give that a try.

The ratchet bomb was for.... um.... random clean up? Helps with czech pile, d&t, delver variants, stone blade. It's not great but when shit hits the fan it was a fine inclusion. It could just be another abrupt decay and I would likely be fine.

So, nothing super obvious that's missing? The mentor plan was way easy to board with.

That's what I meant - cutting Goryo's Vengeance is warping the maindeck. That card is FAR more powerful in this deck than Exhume is. Opens up lines like reanimating a blocker, being able to reanimate Emrakul, etc. I would probably play Corpse Dance before Exhume, honestly. The instant speed + haste makes this deck extremely powerful. But, then you're playing a 3 mana reanimation spell - a different type of warp. Neither is very great.

Yeah, I would prefer another Abrupt Decay to ratchet bomb - it's just so slow. Generally Decay should be fine given the speed of the deck, as there will likely only be 1 permanent preventing you from going off early in the game.

Boarding with reactive cards has always been difficult with this deck. It's kind of a crapshoot since the maindeck is so tight, you can't really bring in answers to everything usually. Sounds like you're not running blue, which cuts you off of Chain of Vapor, Perilous Voyage, etc. But I could still see Fatal Push or Serenity as well. Depends on which pieces of hate you really want to fight. Silence, Chant, Abeyance are options if it's a counter heavy meta. More discard. Not sure how many (if any) collective brutality you run, but that card can be great out of the sideboard too.

/edit: oh, since you're in green, you could consider Ancient Grudge as well.

[Kobra_D]

That's what I meant - cutting Goryo's Vengeance is warping the maindeck. That card is FAR more powerful in this deck than Exhume is. Opens up lines like reanimating a blocker, being able to reanimate Emrakul, etc. I would probably play Corpse Dance before Exhume, honestly. The instant speed + haste makes this deck extremely powerful. But, then you're playing a 3 mana reanimation spell - a different type of warp. Neither is very great.

Yeah, I would prefer another Abrupt Decay to ratchet bomb - it's just so slow. Generally Decay should be fine given the speed of the deck, as there will likely only be 1 permanent preventing you from going off early in the game.

Boarding with reactive cards has always been difficult with this deck. It's kind of a crapshoot since the maindeck is so tight, you can't really bring in answers to everything usually. Sounds like you're not running blue, which cuts you off of Chain of Vapor, Perilous Voyage, etc. But I could still see Fatal Push or Serenity as well. Depends on which pieces of hate you really want to fight. Silence, Chant, Abeyance are options if it's a counter heavy meta. More discard. Not sure how many (if any) collective brutality you run, but that card can be great out of the sideboard too.

/edit: oh, since you're in green, you could consider Ancient Grudge as well.

Fair enough, I cut goryo's before adding ground seal so that concern was never on my mind.

I completely agree, boarding in 4 cards always feels wrong, which is why I'm curious to other silver bullets that are strong enough to come in by themselves and keep things running smoothly.

3rd decay might be right. I tried ancient grudge in the past and it just never shined.

Thanks for the feedback.

My current list for reference:

//Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
3 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Swamp

//Creatures
4 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
1 Children of Korliss
4 Chancellor of the Annex

//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox

//Sorcery
4 Unmask
2 Collective Brutality
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

//Instant
4 Entomb
4 Dark Ritual
4 Shallow Grave

[UWTangClan]

Lurked for a while first time poster. Just recently got around to building this in paper but obviously still lack a lot of reps.

SB3K recently t8'd the legacy challenge with this:

1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
4 Entomb

4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp

Side:
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Duress
4 Fatal Push
1 Flusterstorm
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize

Personally I like this list quite a bit. It seems to be going back to a more traditional list with 2 griselbrand, more fast mana (mox, though personally I don't know if I'd play more than one). The extra scrubland seems a little suspect to me. Is 7 mana producing lands the norm nowadays?

I really like the addition of pushes in the sideboard. Seems like the cleanest and most effective way to deal with a resolved deathrite while still maintaining some general utility outside of deathrite matchups.

The only other question I have is shouldn't at least one (if not both) of the thoughtseizes be a brutality? The drain loop is deterministic iirc (I have yet to attempt to perform it). Is there reasoning beyond the fact that this list doesn't play the playset of griselbrands to justify the thoughtseize inclusion?

[Kobra_D]

Lurked for a while first time poster. Just recently got around to building this in paper but obviously still lack a lot of reps.

SB3K recently t8'd the legacy challenge with this:

1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
4 Entomb

4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp

Side:
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Duress
4 Fatal Push
1 Flusterstorm
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize

Personally I like this list quite a bit. It seems to be going back to a more traditional list with 2 griselbrand, more fast mana (mox, though personally I don't know if I'd play more than one). The extra scrubland seems a little suspect to me. Is 7 mana producing lands the norm nowadays?

I really like the addition of pushes in the sideboard. Seems like the cleanest and most effective way to deal with a resolved deathrite while still maintaining some general utility outside of deathrite matchups.

The only other question I have is shouldn't at least one (if not both) of the thoughtseizes be a brutality? The drain loop is deterministic iirc (I have yet to attempt to perform it). Is there reasoning beyond the fact that this list doesn't play the playset of griselbrands to justify the thoughtseize inclusion?

Welcome to the best deck!

The second chrome mox is helpful when the worst case scenario occurs and you need to enter into combat with just Griselbrand for an extra draw 7. Shouldn't happen often but can occur.

You can benefit a lot by having a CoBru somewhere in your 75 (I run 2 in my 60). An argument can be made for both careful study and unmask but I don't think either add substantial benefit in the Esper lists.

I imagine the extra scrubland is for the added benefit of Mentor specifically. I only ran 1 when I had a mentor transformation but 2 could be fine. That may be something that you tune for how you the deck runs.

We're not as grindy as miracles so when boarding in mentor I always think of the deck as turbo mentor post board. T1 mentor with a probe afterwards or cabal therapy to start the token generation is always where I wanted to be.

[.dk]

That's a weird list - it looks like some bizarro update from lists about 2-3 years ago.

I don't get the second scrubland. That seems odd - probably because of Mentor, but I'd still rather it be a Sea. Petals make white just fine.

Chrome Mox in general isn't needed - there is data somewhere in this thread (from a couple years ago) that Acclimation and I gathered over hundreds of games, that IMO basically tells you that you're only gaining about 1% less chance of fizzling by running a Chrome Mox. The second we didn't gather data on - but it's just SO bad pre-combo, I'm not sure why you would want it.

I like Unmask in this deck a lot (when you're running 3-4 Griselbrands anyway) these days, and they can essentially take the place of Thoughtseize. And I don't see a good reason to not run Collective Brutality or Tendrils maindeck either. Collective Brutality has a lot more utility at very little functional cost (just time) over Tendrils, so I would run that.