Deck Name: Next Level Quinn
A friend of mine who does not have a source account has put a lot of testing in this deck and wanted me to post this here. He would like to give a lot of credit to InfamousBearAssassin for providing the basis for this deck and creating both Rabid Wombat and Quinn the Eskimo.
Why Play Next Level Quinn?
The deck has a very stable mana base and a card advantage engine that is hard to molest. It rapes aggro because of its removal and life gain, and can maneuver around aggro/control or straight up control by utilizing abeyance and a high threat density. The core cards of the deck act very synergistically with each other.
Next Level Quinn takes the powerful card advantage engine from Quinn the Eskimo and cuts the scepter tricks for a more focused, streamlined control list reminiscent of Rabid Wombat.
Decklist:
16 Snow Covered Plains
4 Scrying Sheets
2 Mouth of Ronom
2 Eternal Dragon
4 Wrath of God
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abeyance
4 Renewed Faith
3 Ajani Goldmane
3 Decree of Justice
3 Humility
3 Wing Shards
3 Sensei’s Diving Top
3 Festival of the Guildpact
2 Austere Command
Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Runed Halo
4 Sacred Ground
3 Sunscour
Card Choices:
Utility
Sensei’s Diving Top- Filters for whatever you need and is brutal with Scrying Sheets.
Renewed Faith- A cantrip that gives you a cushion against agro or burn. Can also be cast in a rough situation.
Bandage- A cantrip that stops lackey and builds storm for Wing Shards.
Ajani- Life swing is really nice late game, keeping you out of burn range or a late horde. Early game, usually they must attack Ajani before attack you, effectively “gaining” you 7-10 life.
Abeyance- Forces through Humility, Ajani, or whatever you need to get down against thresh or control.
Humility- The real superstar of the deck. Slows the opponent down to a crawl, forcing them to overextend (especially if you have Ajani), leaving them vulnerable to wrath/command/shards. Also turns Decree into amazing removal, and, with Ajani, turns your soldiers into 2/2's while the opponent can only have 1/1's.
Removal
Wrath of God- Mass Removal.
Swords to Plowshares- Most efficient removal spell in the game.
Austere Command- A versatile sweeper that allows the deck to deal with artifacts and enchantments.
Wing Shards- Essentially a white edict. Gives you more outs to creature decks, especially against Goblins who will jack up the storm count. Combos well with bandage and abeyance.
Win Conditions
Eternal Dragon- Filters for land in the early and mid game and comes in as a win condition late game.
Decree of Justice- Dodges counters and works great with Humility as a pseudo-removal spell.
Sideboard
Runed Halo- General hate, especially against combo.
Tormod’s Crypt- Graveyard-based hate against decks such as Ichorid.
Chalice of the Void- A general hate card. Works well against Thresh, Combo, and Burn.
Suncour- An answer for Empty the Warrens. Also helps in the Goblins Matchup
A note about the cantrips. They are just as vital to this deck as they were to Rabid Wombat because they help you find the key cards for each matchup and form the synergistic combos.
Previous Card Choices:
Culling Scales- Originally teched in as a joke, the lock with Sensei’s Diving Top was quite impressive. However, it was exceptionally poor in taking out problematic artifacts/enchantments such as Crucible and Counterbalance (which isn’t really problematic but nice to get rid of).
Exalted Angel- Never made it past the brainstorming phase because it gives your opponent a target for their removal.
Pulse of the Fields: Was interesting, but it was hard to take advantage of the mana burn the decks took to stop it.
Ivory Mask: Included as a 2-of as a way to combat burn and storm, but was too slow and clunky.
Matchups:
Goblins (80/20): Keep the ground under control until Humility shows up. From there, it is easy. They have a hard time dealing with all the removal this deck runs.
Key Cards: Wrath of God, Swords to Plowshares, Wing Shards, Bandage, Humility, and Ajani
Sideboard: -4 Abeyance +4 Sunscour
Ugw Thresh (50/50): Humility is absolutely key here. Wait for an Abeyance or double Abeyance and drop humility. Try to save Wing Shards for Mongoose.
Key Cards: Humility (!!)
Sideboard: Sideboarding is hard here. You could sideboard in chalices, but sideboarding out is hard because redundant removal is important for counters and storm count for wing shards
Landstill (60/40): An interesting match up that needs more testing. Abeyance in really important here. Swords is also important to get rid of factories for good. Standstill doesn’t effect you much mainly because you can go the rest of the game without resolving spells, using cards like Mouth of Ronom, Eternal Dragon, Decree of Justice, Scrying Sheets, etc.
Key Cards: Abeyance, Swords to Plowshares
Sideboard: Not much to sideboard. A possibility is Runed Halo for Factory.
Fetchland Tendrils (15/85 Preboard, 50/50 Postboard) : Rough Matchup pre-sideboard. Your only real hope game one is to catch them off guard with Abeyance and Renewed faith. Once you lose game 1, bring in Runed Halo, Chalice, and probably Crypt as well mainly because it is more helpful than random removal. Swords could be kept; the life gain may come in handy.
Key Cards: Abeyance preboard, Postboard Halo, Chalice, and Crypt
Sideboard: -12 Removal, +4 Halo +4 Chalice +4 Crypt
Dragon Stompy (90/10): A bye. Blood Moons and Magus of the Moon are useless; their threats are easily to deal with; and Humility is a game ender.
Sideboard: Nothing is really needed.
Ichorid (10/90 Preboard, 40/60 Postboard): The only card that really has an impact is Humility, but it probably won’t come down fast enough to make a difference. Board in Runed Halo naming “Ichorid” or “Cabal Therapy” to give yourself from breathing room.
Sideboard: Take out some removal and abeyances for Crypts and Halo. Remember to keep some removal in, for even humiliated zombie tokens can bash face at 1/1
More decks to be added as this primer is fleshed out.
Last edited by Ray.N; 05-10-2008 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Various Grammatical Errors.
Just thinking off the top of my head and guessing, but might mobilization have a spot in this deck? I could be completly wrong but it seems like it could fit pretty well and provides a constant stream of creatures especially since MWC often ends up with a ton of mana. Also I feel like Orim's Chant has a spot in this deck even without the scepter there, but since I have never played this deck I am just theory crafting. Overall great job I like the design and the fact that it is a pretty low budget deck. I look forward to testing this a bit.
Like:
- High amount of win conditions
- Austere Command
- Fairly low budget, unless you want to add Moats
Dislike:
- No plan against mana denial (both in Sinkhole and Armageddon forms)
- Bandage. It seems only needed in an unusually Goblins-heavy meta, since that matchup is so good anyways. If you need a cantrip, Festival of the Guildpact works only 50% of the time against Lackey, but it can be an actual Fog later on. If you don't, then Condemn is an excellent backup to StP.
- Sunscour in the SB seems terrible. You say it's for Empty the Warrens; wouldn't Engineered Explosives or Powder Keg do the same thing, only much better? And against Goblins it takes out those annoying Vials.
- Multiple Ajanis are pretty bad (yeah, you can 'suicide' one, but it's not a good deal). I think two copies should work better than three. A single copy of Rune of Protection: Red could fulfill the lifegain role, and cycle away when unneeded.
Other ideas:
- If your meta has Loam, Wheel of the Sun and Moon can be a better SB option than Crypt
- In a random meta, Oblivion Ring is nice to have as a versatile, if somewhat overcosted, answer to unexpected problems.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
I love MWC, but it is just not great anymore. The thing Quinn had was the toolbox and scepter lock. You took those out. If you want a deck that crushes aggro, play Wgb. I don't know if I posted a list here, but it is an evolution of Rabid Wombat. Basically, better draw, win cons, and removal. You are weaker to things like Wasteland but still run a crap ton of basics.
4 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
3 Nantuko Monastery
4 Savannah
4 Scrubland
5 Plains
2 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Krosan Tusker
2 Eternal Dragon
3 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Harmonize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Vindicate
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Wrath of God
3 Decree of Justice
I don't think that is the list, buit it looks like it. It crushes aggro and aggro-control. SB is all combo hate like Thoughtseize and Chant, etc. I'll see if I can find the exact list.
Originally Posted by Nihil
I was the friend who designed this, so I've had a lot of experience with the deck.
The mana denial did prove to be frustrating at times, but between Eternal Dragon, Sensei's, and cantrips, you can find lands relatively easy; the deck is fetchless, so it plays like it has more lands than you might think. I had Sacred Ground in the sideboard at one point, but I never wanted to side it in. I agree that it is a weak point in the deck, but its not as horrid as you make it out to be.
I never thought of Festival before; it definitely should go in over Bandage.
The nice thing about Sunscour is that if the opponent is on the play, you don't have to take a 10-point swing from a first-turn Warrens, AND it frees up your mana for Sensei's, etc. It also seems much better in random aggro matchups than a slow powder keg or a limited EE.
The multiple Ajani's aren't as bad as you'd think- early game, the first won't last very long, and late game, you have so many options available that drawing a second Ajani is no big deal. Add in the fact that you have Sensei's to keep it off the top and Eternal Dragon to shuffle, and three seems like a fine number. The thing about Ajani is that there are so many matchups where he just wins games outright because the opponent can't kill it before it gets a solid amount of counters- unless they overextend, which leaves them susceptible to Wrath/Command.
And Jak, the thing about the Scepter tricks and toolbox is that they were never all that relevant, at least for me, especially with Spell Snare gaining popularity. All it seemed to do was reduce the number of threats you could play, worsening your control matchup. In NLQ, you don't have to waste slots on Enlightened Tutor, Isochron, Chant, etc. and can focus on more consistency and threat density.
As for the list you provided; I'm not sure that deck is necessarily better than NLQ. While the splashes provide more options, they hurt the mana base, and ruin perhaps the best facet of the Quinn deck, far more powerful than the scepters: Scrying Sheets. That card is crazy. The biggest thing that list
lacks that mine has is reliable, uncounterable card advantage. Sure, you have Harmonize- but Harmonize is kind of awkward, or at least it was for me in a similar deck.
Last edited by Roman Candle; 05-01-2008 at 09:55 PM.
If mana denial is really an issue for you, have you considered Crucible of Worlds? It also makes Mouth of Ronom recursion possible which is another plus side.
I actually had Crucible in the SB for a while, but Sacred Ground is easier to play when the opponent has mana denial, and is better against Armageddon.
How often is mana denial really an issue? When it is an issue, do you really feel the difference between Sacred Ground and Crucible, mana cost wise? To me, the advantage of re-playing the lands already put into your graveyard and reusing Mouth of Ronom seems like a bigger advantage than coming out a turn earlier.
LD doesn't ever really bother me unless it's Armageddon-style or really devoted to. If an opponent has just 4 Sinkholes and 4 Wasteland, you can usually dig up enough mana anyway. But against Armageddon, Sacred Ground is definitely the winner.
What people don't realize about decks like this is that you can find lands really easily early game, with cantrips and Eternal Dragon.
If mana denial is really an issue, run Tithe. It can be played easily in the maindeck instead of two lands and two another cards. It also thin your library and shuffle your deck for SDT.
Get rid of the Bandages, replace with new hotness Niveous Wisps. Not only does it neuter a lackey cantrip, it also does other things as well.
I thought about that too, but Niveous Wisps has the big problem that it's uncastable if there isn't a targetable creature in play.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
Nicely done, this seems very solid (that's probably just my soft spot for big, slow control decks talking). You keep saying that Humility is one of the most important cards in the deck and yet you only have three of them. Humility's effect cannot be replicated by any other card in the deck while you have nine other sweepers. I suggest upping the Humility count to four and dropping either a Wrath of God or a Wing Shards. Even though drawing multiple Humilities sucks, the effect is what makes the deck good.
Decklist has been updated. -3 Bandage, +3 Festival of the Guildpact.
Today, Candle and I played a few more games of Thresh vs. NLQ. I am a mediocre thresh player at best, and the games we had were always right down to the line. I'm sure a better thresh player would have done better. I was using the Hatfield 5c thresh list.
I'm shocked you're having so much trouble against Thresh. What's going wrong for you? Do you find yourself at the mercy of a 'goyf with no removal in hand? NLQ plays an insane amount of removal, I can't imagine it's that difficult to destroy some combination of 4 Mongoose, 4 Tarmogoyf, and 3-4 Mystic Enforcer/Fledgling Dragon/Sea Drake.
I would remove the Tormod's Crypts. They wont stop Ichorid from tearing you apart. They can Needle them or set a Chalice for 0 on the play and you have no removal for either. By the time you get them to a crucial life point I assume you should've lost.
I say you take your bad matchup and make room in your sideboard for more versitile sideboard cards. Wheel of Sun and Moon was a good suggestion because its a great anti yard tool to use again non Ichorid decks. It will help against Loam and Crucible, both I assume give you some issues.
You might want some more artifact/enchantment removal other than Austere Command, its very slow. Look's good, I love Ajani. He works amazingly with Kitchen Finks, they never go away. You should try it out over Renewed Faith.
Now playing real formats.
Re: Niveous Wisps: These went in for about 15 seconds before they were dead in hand because it had no target.
Re: Wheel of Sun and Moon: Crucible and Loam aren't as big a problem as it might seem. I already dropped Tormod's, and forgot to say it. It was replaced with 4 Sacred Ground.
Re: The Thresh Matchup: I wouldn't say those games were right down the middle: I struggled once or twice because he drew a load of creatures and wouldn't overextend, while I drew no removal-- bad luck/MWS shuffling there. But despite that, I stalled to the late game and took control.
Re: Artifact removal: The problem with most artifact/enchantment control is its useless in a whole lot of matchups. Austere gets around this, and I can hit six pretty reliably.
Re: Kitchen Finks: Renewed is better here IMO, because cantrips are so important to finding your synergys.
Its not a bad matchup by any means, although I did make it sound that way. Mongoose does give the deck a bit of trouble, but Goyfs and Enforcers/Dragons/Drakes are ridiculously easy to deal with. Dropping a goose and using counters only on cards like Humility and Wrath of God worked pretty well. Candle really didn't draw too well either. Another note- Wing Shards works really, really well as an uncounterable removal spell. A common play was festival->abeyance->wing shards.
After further reflection and testing, the early and mid-late game is usually close, probably 50/50 or 55/45. However, once the late game is reached, thresh really doesn't have a chance. I had to resort to swording ajani tokens after extirpating his Decree of Justices.
If you can take care of the Mongeese through Wing Shards, Humility, or Wrath of God, you're pretty much golden.
To summarize, the matchup resolves around NLQ taking care of Nimble Moongoose and stalling until late game when it can dominate with bombs like Humility and Ajani.
Last edited by Ray.N; 05-08-2008 at 07:06 PM.
Just don't walk into Daze and you win. They have one counter that stops you and that is Force. Playing against Thresh or Counterslivers should be a win because you have too much control for them to handle. I really stopped liking Mono white because it lacked enough good win cons to beat Landstill and had no draw. I hated having all reactive answers (besides Humility) so I splashed green for Monastery, Harmonize, added 4 Mishra's Factory, Krosan Tusker, and am not putting in 4 MD Runed Halo. The card is perfect for the deck. ALso, I am playing 3 Wheel of Sun and Moon in the board to help Ichorid and other GY based decks.
Yeah, but I got mana-screwed... I HAD to walk into Daze.
And thanks, but I'd rather not splash another color. All that would do is make me remove Scrying Sheets, which to me seems like a better card than Harmonize. And I don't think mono-white lacks win cons. Eternal Dragon is pretty much a threat every turn late game, while Decree is uncounterable and laughs in the face of Landstill.
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