[Interest] 2-Man Tournament, Round III

[Zach Tartell]

Now that I'm pretty solidly into summer (no job, no lady, lots of time on my hands)(hold the masturbation jokes, please) I was thinking that it might be fun to revive the "Two-Man Tournament" thing.

If anyone is interested (serious offers only) in being my partner or submitting a list (or just wants to see this done in a modern meta) shoot me a PM.

[Pinder]

I'm all for it. I'm not sure it would yield anything terribly conclusive, but it would certainly be fun to watch unfold, and Meathooks has to make up for getting knocked out in the first round last time. Of course, this time you might end up with 3 separate lists for it (UWg, UWb, UWgb).

I won't have time to participate, but I would love to see someone else do it.

[raharu]

I am entirely unfimiliar with this concept.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

The idea is to test several decks against each other in an elimination tournament played round by round by only two people. Both times it contained 32 decks.

[raharu]

The idea is to test several decks against each other in an elimination tournament played round by round by only two people. Both times it contained 32 decks.
Okay, I must say that now I'm entirely interested. I have a feeling that this could be full of win, although I wouldn't know who would have the playskill to play 16 different decks. Prolly some of the EPIC guys, idk. I'd volunteer to play, but I'm not any kind of fan of MWS. Worthless program.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I'd volunteer to play, but I'm not any kind of fan of MWS. Worthless program.Workstation is the easiest way to do this, you can get the best players from around the world.

I'd be willing to play some games. I can play any deck at least decently, except TES.

[Nihil Credo]

You've got a PM, Zach.

[Eldariel]

This would be friggin' awesome. The last one showed how Orlove Reanimator actually is good and just underplayed (of course, it changed nothing, but at least still made the point) and it's always great to see what kinds of decks lie underneath the surface and how they match-up in real tournaments.

[Nihil Credo]

Zach's been AFK for a couple of days, so I think this thread might as well be used to brainstorm ideas for the competitors.

You realize how fucking awesome a format Legacy now is when you try to to jot down a list for this tournament and realize that you can practically make a full tournament just with the stuff that's made multiple Top 8s. Precious little room for the untested rogues like R/W Quake, Junk Pile, Molotov Cocktail that could be seen in previous editions.

Here's what I've drafted:

RBg Goblins
Two Landstill variants (UWb and a Deed version TBD)
Two CounterTop Threshold variants (to be decided)
UGR Canadian Thrash
Some flavour of Intuition/Goyf/Deed.dec (probably It's The Fear)
43 Lands (or perhaps The Perfect Loam?)
Eva Green
Mono-Blue Control
TES
Fetchland Tendrils
Belcher
Aluren
Enchantress
Burn
Goyf Sligh
RGBW Burning Survival
Not Quite Survival
Ichorid
The Rock
White Stax
Aggro Loam
Faerie Stompy
Dragon Stompy
Ux Dreadstill
Cephalid Breakfast
Imperial Painter
Affinity (AfFOWnity? Dreadnought Affinity?)

That leaves just three open slots. They could be used for old faces that can still have something to say (Solidarity, Pikula, CounterSlivers, Baseruption, Train Wreck); for perennial favourites (SuiBlack, Pox, White Weenie, Doran Rock); for Source creations that may or may not have been flashes in the pan (Tombstone, TEC, MossNought, I Will Survive); or simply for whatever strikes the fancy of Zach and his partner in boredom&masochism.

Comments?

[Kadaj]

I'd be happy to volunteer for some of the testing. MUC, obviously, is my forte, but I can play quite a bit of random stuff.

Also, one of the 3 should probably be a non 3 color Goblins list. Maybe your standard Mono-Red list, for comparisons sake.

[kicks_422]

Nice list you typed up. I propose, for the last three slots, MeatHooks, Deadguy, and MossNought.

MeatHooks for non-Goyf aggro-control, Deadguy since it's still pretty popular (I think), and MossNought because it's the latest CANGD winner.

EDIT: I just realized how many viable decks are in this format. <3 Legacy.

[Osse]

I think a BGW Survival list (like the ones that have been discussed in the survival thread) should be somewhere in there, as they're not really toolbox, as much as they are Rock with an amazing draw engine.

Agreed on the Mono-red Goblins

As for Affinity. I think we should be using a straight list, not the Dreadnought, or Affinity/u (Affownity, such a terrible name), as they seem like poor versions of other decks (Dreadstill, Faerie/Sea Stompy)

EDIT: Wasn't Meathooks playing Goyf now? I thought I saw that. Pikula is terrible, and should only be played if you don't know how to beat it (The only reason I think it still shows up..). I wouldn't mind Mossnought at all.

[THEchubbymuffin]

I voted to see what the meta would look like today. Also you should definately put some sort of elves deck in there. I've been seeing a lot of them being played on MWS and beating them 2-0 doesn't seem to discourage these elf decks.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

The Magic Workstation 'meta' doesn't count. There will always be elves. Always.

[Eldariel]

Speaking of Elves, Feinstein Elves anyone?

Mono-Red and Rw Goblins could both have a case made; Rw Goblins seems to be the best finishing list right now (or tied with Rb Goblins, but since Rbg has the black components already, Rw could prove a nicely different perspective, with the ability to wield full set of Ports too). Mono-Red is of course an option, but Rw seems to not give up much for StP, which is all the more critical with Tarmogoyf so big in the format.

And if there're two Landstill-builds and three Threshold-builds, there should be at least two Goblins-builds since damnit, they've still been finishing almost as well as Thresh, and there're lots of relevant differences between the 3-colour splash (worse manabase, the black additions) and mono-red/Rw builds (Ports, Swords, whole sideboard, anti-combo tools - mono-red can potentially include hits such as Stingscourger, Goblin Goon et co.).


Of the listed decks, I question Belcher's place along with Burn and Cephalid Breakfast. Cephfast seems to not be finishing as much anymore and really, while it isn't entirely redundant with anything, among others Ichorid and Aluren have similarities to the deck. As for Belcher, I feel it overlaps with TES and Fetchland Tendrils to a degree and thus could be omitted for greater good and more interesting decks; I don't think it takes a genius to figure out how Belcher's MUs would go (against decks stopping it from going broke turn 1, it loses - otherwise, it wins).

Burn just seems very similar to Goyf Sligh and I don't know if simpleminded red decks are popular enough to warrant two slots in the tournament.


As for Affinity, simple Fling Affinity seems to be finishing the most (surprise surprise, for some reason the natural one is seeing more play than the obscure ones none know about; who coulda guessed?!), but I don't know if it's the most interesting option for this tournament - it wouldn't play out that differently compared to Goyf Sligh, Burn or any linear, aggressive strategy.

Affownity is likewise a boring choice made more so by the fact that it's largely similar to Faerie Stompy, except without some of the key FS features. Dreadnought Affinity is likewise covered; something more offball? Wire Affinity? Sphere Affinity? Welder Affinity? That Fat-Bottomed Girls-thingy that was going around N&D at some point? They seem more potent and interesting in regards of this tournament than classic Affinity.


For the remaining slots, I feel Mossnaught deserves a slot for winning CaNGD. I Will Survive does indeed appear worth consideration. Or maybe it's time to put Death & Taxes to the test in the WW-slot? Some sort of Reanimator-list? Those seem to hang around, Top 8 a time or two, and get forgotten and never played again. I never really figured that one out. Don't people just have the guts to play them?

Hmm, Welder Survival? It seems to be doing decently again. Maybe add some Sliver-build there... Some sort of Rebels nonsense? They just printed Mirror Entity ("just" in Legacy-terms). That smex hybrid of X decks from Doug's article today? Rector Show and Tell? Any number of other decks you didn't even know existed? Berserk Stompy (yea, yea, redundant, I know - this is not my job, just brainstorming)? I feel Pikula isn't horribly interesting; Eva Green can annex that spot as far as I'm concerned. Merfolk? Pattern Ghoul? Some other tribal nonsense? Some Fish-variant? Bleh.

[THEchubbymuffin]

RBG Goblins
RW Goblins
UWb Landstill
UBGW Landstill
Ugb Thresh
Ugw Thresh
UGR Canadian Thrash
The Fear
43 Lands
Eva Green
Mono-Blue Control
TES
Fetchland Tendrils
Belcher
Aluren
Enchantress
Burn
Goyf Sligh
RGBW Burning Survival
Not Quite Survival
Ichorid
The Rock
White Stax
Aggro Loam
Faerie Stompy
Dragon Stompy
Ux Dreadstill
Cephalid Breakfast
Imperial Painter
Affinity
Vaka Pox
Reanimator

What I would pick to be the 32. (mostly Nihil's though)

[freakish777]

Zach, this would be a lot more fun and interesting if a "qualified pilot" were assigend to each deck (and perhaps a back up in the event they can't play, real life happens for a lot of us).

For instance:

Survival -> Price
TES -> Bryant
FS -> Eldariel
etc

Each qualified pilot would be allow to choose their own list for the archetype.

Basically, it's less fun if people get the feeling that "Oh well, Aluren (or TES, or Dragon Stompy, etc) only bombed out because someone not intimately familiar with the deck wasn't playing it."

[kicks_422]

Then that defeats the 2-man tournament concept. Why not just turn this into a 32-man thing, each deck being represented by a different person who's more or less adept at each deck?

It would be a huge headache fixing the times for playing, but it would be so cool.

[Mister Agent]

Actually come to think of it I would like to partipate too considering I would like to see how Bardo's Vorosh landstill would do against a relevant/ideal gauntlet. I would be happy to play with his deck as well.

[Zach Tartell]

Then that defeats the 2-man tournament concept. Why not just turn this into a 32-man thing, each deck being represented by a different person who's more or less adept at each deck?

It would be a huge headache fixing the times for playing, but it would be so cool.

I don't want to step on egos, or toes, or whatever you step on on the internet (e-penises?).

I'm pretty happy with two guys (myself and one other TBD) for no particular reason other than the aforementioned. I don't want to deal with that.

I do like how we're working on lists. A couple of the people who PM'd me with the "play with me" suggestions said that they had a list in mind - to remove any bias or "oh, he wasn't playing the right list" I will be using only lists that are (mostly) unanimously approved by everybody.

What I'm looking for:

Suggestions for some weird decks. We (I and my partner and maybe the EPIC crew and prolly the adepts) will come up with somewhere around 20 locked in decks - I want a couple cool new ones (remember the orrigional competition? With Junk Pile and EATS and all those other obscure lists?). It has to be playable (I will be the ultimate judge of this) and worth paying attention to.
A write up (don't jump the gun and hope that your Turbo Obliterate list will be a shoe-in only to realize that your pretty new primer isn't really needed) of each deck (doesn't have to be much for the more universally known decks) explaining the general idea (again, not for stuff like Thresh and Landstill) of the deck and specific card choices (which I'm sure everyone on this site will disagree upon until I just decide what I like and run with it).
Patience. The last one fell apart because the players were too busy. That isn't the case for me, thankfully, but I do expect to have a little bit of a non-internet life.
A hot step sister? Am I too old to keep making that joke?


I'll sleep on this (long couple days) and probably get around to saying which 15-20 decks are locks, then we can argue over lists for about a week before I start the magic.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

damn, i wanted to be in it with my reanimate

[etrigan]

I propose we eradicate what's left of Zach's social life and expand the tournament to 64 decks.

If you do this, I'll effort to find a hot step sister.

[kicks_422]

I don't want to step on egos, or toes, or whatever you step on on the internet (e-penises?).

Yeah, that would be a problem. I've experienced that well enough... *shudder* ...Forget I even suggested that.


I propose we eradicate what's left of Zach's social life and expand the tournament to 64 decks.

If you do this, I'll effort to find a hot step sister.

Second that. There are too many viable decks to fit into a count of 32. :tongue:

[Zach Tartell]

I propose we eradicate what's left of Zach's social life and expand the tournament to 64 decks.

If you do this, I'll effort to find a hot step sister.

I'm down (if anyone else is) for the first, and am skeptical on the second. 'Course there is that thing about looking at gift horses in the et cetera.

I was planning on doing two (like a grudge match), as summer is a long time, but I'd at least entertain the idea of 64 decks. I think it would be tough to fill that up (without doing only minute changes to decks).

I'm gonna grab some coffee and see what needs to be in.

[Eldariel]

Bleh, filling 64 would be relatively easy. Out of the biggest decks, you can easily pull however many variants you want; 3-4 different Goblins, Threshold or Landstill-lists are all easy to come by. Same goes for Survival, MUC, Loam, etc. You could make 32 decks consisting just of those archetypes with no two variants being just 1-2 cardslots apart.

64 is able to fit off-the-wall decks like the last tournament did. I could write you three-four pages of different random decks you could consider, but that seems relatively pointless until the decision as to how many decks will be used is made.

[Van Phanel]

You have a PM.

I think 64 would be whole lot of playing for those 2 players. 32 sounds more manageable.

Also I'd like seeing Solidarity in one of the empty slots.

[Zach Tartell]

Ok, here is a list of archtypes I'd like to include, with the specific decks too.


Landstill

UWb with wishes. This has been doing pretty solid o'er in Deutschland. So, it's in.
4c (UWbg - or whatever. The order of B and W in BHWC always confused me.) These two are the only locked in ones.
UW straight up. I remember that this used to do it up back in the day. And Geoff Smelski (a Syracuse local who posts under the name "Konsultant" on these here forums) reverted to it Post-Flash, if I recall correctly.
A UBg list. I think the archtype kinda needs white to be good, so this is a good way to show the rest of the world that I'm a genius. Or, y'know, not.
None of this UR stuff. I'm not positive that it isn't competitive at all, but I'm rather sure. Pales greatly now that Goyf is alive. UWr might be kinda fun. I'd keep it in consideration if we do do (hah. I said dodo) the 64 deck thing.

Threshold

Canadian Thresh. Ol' Goobalfish (sp?) and Lat Pham (also sp?) have talked this up enough that it's taken up a pretty solid following. I think it's good, and that's the benchmark for included-ness.
UGbw (pick the order on B and W) for Counter/Top, Thoughtseize and Swords and maybe Bob (you folks who play good decks can argue this). I feel like this is where the CB/T archtype is migrating now. It doesn't run City of Brass or any of the more questionable cards from 5c Thresh (like the 1-of Fact or Daze + City of Brass) but does have the twin powerhouses of Swords and Thoughtseize. Which I think I've said twice already.
Those two really do it for me. I'd entertain the notion of a UGb (I don't like the lack of non-black removal) or maybe UGw, but I really think that the 4c is probably the best.

Combo Decks

TES. No arguments on lists or whatever - Bryant is going to give me a list and we're going to play it.
Fetchland Tendrils. I'm not as "The deckbuilder's word is final" with FT. Elmidion or whatever (whose name reminds me of this (http://magiccards.info/query/cards/3177130.html) cycle of cards) has suggested that the deck play sans-Lotus Petal. I really do not agree with this. But, again, I'll let you folks squabble over it for a while before I rule in one side's favor or another.
CRET (or Dark) Belcher. Eladriel (sp?) mentioned that he thinks that Belcher shouldn't have a place here. But it's sheer "oops, I win" possibilities against non-Force of Will decks (and the ease of constructing the deck) mean that it'll always be in the meta, at least a little, and therefore worth testing against.
Burn
Painter's Servant Combo. I'd like to have at least one (UBmaybeatinylittlex) list and maybe the Imperial Painter too. A local has been rocking it lately to some pretty good finishes. And he owns actual Recruiters.
Ichorid. I have a list in mind (the one that Bovi (God rest his soul) top 2'd the second NOVA event with).
The list kind of ends there. Iggypop has kind of been sucked up into either FT or TES. Solidarity used to be worth testing against, but I'm not sure if there are people crazy enough to play it anymore, what with Counterbalance being so able to shut it down makes me think it's not a large enough percentage of the decks played to warrant it. If we do 64 I'll include one list (prolly mono-blue).

Not-Threshold Aggro-Control

Dragon Stompy. "But Zach, Dragon Stompy isn't Aggro Control!" Shut up. It has creatures, it controls stuff. 'Nuff said. I will provide a list for review, nothing is in stone yet.
1 Rock deck. You can fight over whether it'll be BG or Bwg. I'm not a fan of the Italian list (with Hideous Laughter over Hail Storm, for instance). We might do two if we go 64.
A Black Sui or Deadguy or Eva Green deck (this is distinguishable from Rock 'cause it plays LD). Just one. Maybe two if we go 64.
I'd like a Faerie Stompy deck. This is a case of "the guy who built it gives me a list and I'll play it."
Aggro Loam. I'll take at least one list (probably two): GR is necessary, and I'd like to see a three or four color list too (GRb/w, GRwb). None of this intuition crap.
At least two Survival lists. Gbrw as per Di, and a RGBSA with wishes that I will take suggestions on.
Goyf Sligh. I'm unfamiliar with this archtype, so we'll need some discussion.
Two Goblins lists; one Mono-Red and one Rbg. I'll accept suggestions on both lists.
Dreadstill. You folks can argue about what the good list is.
Affinity (This is less control more aggro, but I don't feel like using the list function any more than is necessary. With great power comes great et cetera)

Not-Landstill Control

It's the Fear. I'm good with that. Dave and whomever else cares can provide a list.
Mono-White control maybe? I'd listen to somebody telling me that Quinn or Wombat is worth it. Same with the anti-Solidarity argument.
MUC. I'd take two lists if we went 64 decks (which looks likely 'cause we're already at like 31 when we are only taking one of the "I'd like two") from Kraj's recently published primer.
43 Land would be cool, but I'd only include it if we went to 64. It represents a tiny part of the meta.
Armageddon Stax. List sought.
Enchantress. Surprised?



This is just me throwing stuff on the wall and seeing what sticks. I'm up for an intelligent debate on what is worth including and what isn't.

The reason I'm not going to take your list:

I'm looking for people who have accomlished something with the list (or perhaps a list that has accomplished something). This isn't to say that I don't think you're a good player, but for the sake of removing bias (and getting optimal lists) I'm sorry; that's just the way it is.
I don't think that the cool "this could work" stuff is worth it. I want proven things; let other, real tournaments do the leg work for us.


PM me lists (I'll clean out my inbox); I'll update this post (or do another for some savage +1ery) with lists that I have received and agree with, and those that need some work.

I really want this to be awesome.

[Mirrislegend]

What happened to the old threads? Rounds I and II? I'm interested in reading up a bit before getting into it. Anyone got a link or are they consigned to the history books already?

[etrigan]

Re: Threshold,

I'd go 1 Canadian Thresh, 1 UGwb (or 5c) Thresh, and 1 Moon Thresh. I lub me some Blood Moons.

[HammafistRoob]

Ok, here is a list of archtypes I'd like to include, with the specific decks too.

A Black Sui or Deadguy or Eva Green deck (this is distinguishable from Rock 'cause it plays LD). Just one. Maybe two if we go 64.
Dreadstill. You folks can argue about what the good list is.

I would go for Sui Black and Eva Green.

We don't need to argue about Dreadstill, you should probably have 2 lists. One Ur(for Goyfless reasons) and a Ugr(for Goyful reasons), to see which one does better.

I don't know about this 64 deck thing, it seems like alot of work for 2 people to do, maybe you could have 4 people do it?

[Jak]

What happened to the old threads? Rounds I and II? I'm interested in reading up a bit before getting into it. Anyone got a link or are they consigned to the history books already?

I don't know where the first one is but it will be back there a ways. The second one never did anything. It got started then Taco just stopped or something.

I think 64 is a lot of decks, but I think the tournament should still hold the other decks that get no love like Demon Stompy, Trinity Green (Goyf Stompy), MWC, Junk Pile, Reanimator, etc. It shouldn't be hard to fill the list out.

[Eldariel]

I'll get you a Faerie Stompy-build in near-enough future. I'm testing a dozen things so there'll probably be some experimental slots, but it should be close enough to the canon.

[Jaiminho]

Combo Decks

No Cephalid Breakfast?

[Zach Tartell]

I'm all for it. I'm not sure it would yield anything terribly conclusive, but it would certainly be fun to watch unfold, and Meathooks has to make up for getting knocked out in the first round last time. Of course, this time you might end up with 3 separate lists for it (UWg, UWb, UWgb).

I won't have time to participate, but I would love to see someone else do it.

Meat hooks! How could I have forgotten. That'll take up at least one slot (prolly 3 if we do 64, 'cause Straight agro like GWrb, the more "omg 8 muscle slivers" UGw(b?) and the control-y UWb).


Re: Threshold,

I'd go 1 Canadian Thresh, 1 UGwb (or 5c) Thresh, and 1 Moon Thresh. I lub me some Blood Moons.

I remember that. Did it top 8 ever?


I think 64 is a lot of decks, but I think the tournament should still hold the other decks that get no love like Demon Stompy, Trinity Green (Goyf Stompy), MWC, Junk Pile, Reanimator, etc. It shouldn't be hard to fill the list out.

I want to have decks that accurately depict the meta, with a couple "this is an unusual top8 deck" spruced in (see Feinstein Elves, which I'll probably throw in if we do 64). I'm not sure that Reanimator has more than two players, and those two seem to be pretty solidly in San Diego. Demon Stompy hasn't done anything ever, and Trinity Green (probably a list from the "Elf Stompy" thread in N&D) will probably get a place 'cause I think it's super cool. MWC was mentioned, and Junk Pile was played once, like two years ago (exactly).

Ninja Edit:

No Cephalid Breakfast?

Nope. I can't say for sure whether or not it's still competitive - seems like Painter's a lot better, and 0 dependency on yards (and twice the converted mana cost). Aydunno. If we do the larger option it'll be in probably (only one list), if not then it probably won't.

[Eldariel]

Reanimator seems to pretty much Top 8 whenever it's played, so bleh. I remember 3 distinct times when a Reanimator-build emerged, Top 8d and then nobody played it again. I think one should be there, if only because Orlove Reanimator was the only 'non-meta deck' to make it to the best of 8 last time. At least if 64 is the number, it should be there; it could be the 32nd deck in 32.

[Kadaj]

Zach, both of the lists in my primer are more or less as good as they're going to get as far as MUC goes. The only problem would be that the two decks play completely differently and have differing strengths and weaknesses. So, keep that in mind when you make your choosing.

[Osse]

I hate the fact that there are so many variants on archetypes, why can't this be more like Extended :(.

I think there should be an Aggro-Loam list with Chalice/EE and one without (That seems to be the trend lately it seems.) I have a Chalice/EE list laying around that seems to work fine, and has top8ed. Agreed on none of the intuition stuff.

I have no idea what Painter's Servants lists look like, everytime I think of a list it appears to be "better than Dreadnought" lists. Oh wells.

I really think Belcher should be in there, that deck is so hard to beat if you don't play countermagic.

I've got some lists for the stuff you've asked for. I've PMed you. I can e-mail you the lists if you provide me with a place to send them, PM seems kind of messy, especially now.

[Nihil Credo]

As for Belcher, I feel it overlaps with TES and Fetchland Tendrils to a degree and thus could be omitted for greater good and more interesting decks; I don't think it takes a genius to figure out how Belcher's MUs would go (against decks stopping it from going broke turn 1, it loses - otherwise, it wins).

Burn just seems very similar to Goyf Sligh and I don't know if simpleminded red decks are popular enough to warrant two slots in the tournament.

I feel these are both very valid points. I for one aren't interested in the slightest in watching a Belcher vs. X game.


UW straight up. I remember that this used to do it up back in the day. And Geoff Smelski (a Syracuse local who posts under the name "Konsultant" on these here forums) reverted to it Post-Flash, if I recall correctly.

Too similar to UWb to be worth a slot, IMO. Of course, with 64 decks that'd be a different story...


A UBg list. I think the archtype kinda needs white to be good, so this is a good way to show the rest of the world that I'm a genius. Or, y'know, not.Depending on how it's built, it could either be very similar to 4C, or very similar to ItF. Again, I'd look at its inclusion in a 64-deck tournament only.


UGbw (pick the order on B and W) for Counter/Top, Thoughtseize and Swords and maybe Bob (you folks who play good decks can argue this). I feel like this is where the CB/T archtype is migrating now. It doesn't run City of Brass or any of the more questionable cards from 5c Thresh (like the 1-of Fact or Daze + City of Brass) but does have the twin powerhouses of Swords and Thoughtseize. Which I think I've said twice already.I'd stick to UGB. I've playtested four-colours for Swords and it's truly not worth it, might as well play City of Brass for the trouble the manabase is going to give you; Adan can back me up on this, and his name is Hebrew for Threshold so that should persuade you. Also, UGB has placed more.


Combo DecksYou totally forgot Aluren.


At least two Survival lists. Gbrw as per Di, and a RGBSA with wishes that I will take suggestions on.Those are basically the same approach. I recommend NQS as a second Survival deck - I'd personally love BGW, but it doesn't have the results to be included except as a rogue.


43 Land would be cool, but I'd only include it if we went to 64. It represents a tiny part of the meta.The classical 43 Lands list may be less played, but variations on the theme still show up quite regularly. Throw in the fact that it's a very unique deck, the sort of weird shit that makes you proud of the format, and I feel it's earned its inclusion.


Enchantress. Surprised?Hope you can find someone who's got a good list.



Assume I agree on the non-quoted parts.

[etrigan]

I remember that. Did it top 8 ever?


Alix Hatfield T8'd Running GAGG with it. Calosso and Jesse came in 9th and 10th, respectively. Also, 4 other T8's, according to deckcheck.net .

[Jak]

If you want an accurate depiction of the meta, that's fine, but Istilll think you should add decks that don't see play. It is like they just add the top 32 teams in College basketball and never give schools like George Mason a chance.

[Tacosnape]

If you want an accurate depiction of the meta, that's fine, but Istilll think you should add decks that don't see play. It is like they just add the top 32 teams in College basketball and never give schools like George Mason a chance.

This was a large part of the fun of it. Playing things that were pretty rogue in the field.

The 2-man tournament was never intended to actually prove anything. Keep this heavily in mind. It was just intended to simulate the fun and excitement of a ridiculously huge single elimination tournament to see what happened.

EDIT: I want my Dracoplosion in this.

[Zach Tartell]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t119/lonelybaritone/The64.jpg

I need as many more decks as there are blank places. Feel free to fight over them.

[Tacosnape]

Too many variants of the same decks.

Add some of the CANGD decks to this. Add a lot of them, in fact.

[Jaiminho]

Add B/x Pox?

[Pinder]

EDIT: Wasn't Meathooks playing Goyf now? I thought I saw that. Pikula is terrible, and should only be played if you don't know how to beat it (The only reason I think it still shows up..). I wouldn't mind Mossnought at all.

Depends on who you ask, and how they're feeling. I've run UWg versions with both Plated Sliver and Goyf, and I'll say that they each pull roughly the same weight in the deck, albeit in different situations. You could go with either. Although, I think Volts UWb version is the list that's been having the most success recently.

edit - And Zach, I'd throw Vorosh in one of those remaining slots. I think it's different enough from ITF and it would be interesting to see which one gets farther.

[Tacosnape]

Also, for the record, 2 MUC's, 2 Dreadstills, and 3 Slivers is ridiculous. Cull Slivers down to 2 max, and just choose an MUC and/or a Dreadstill list you like better (Preferrably, copy a Top 8 list from somewhere for reference). People will bitch about it, but people bitch about everything, and due to the pollings I apparently didn't alienate too many people the first time.

EDIT: Also, Zach, remind me to PM you my BWR Magnivore list. I'd be amused to see how quickly that gets stomped on.

[KillemallCFH]

I'd love to see a Merfolk list in there. I've been doing a lot of work with a monoblue CB+Top/B2B list, and I'd love to see how it would perform here. PM me if you're interested in the list.

I'd also like to see another Stax variant in there. Sun Tower, maybe?

[YuanTi]

What's Colin's Survival?

If it's not GBW Survival, Id recommend one of those for the remaining slots.

[Eldariel]

Toss Goblin Fish in there. Just for the hell of it. Also, some Semi-Control Affinity-builds (Spheres seem like the most natural). Then some Rebels-build and that last deck for Doug's article; it's just too smexy not to play. Also, some Rector-deck and some Welder-deck! And umm, Domain Zoo? Also, some Reanimator-build needs to be in there. There's always reanimator. It's just a must.

[Brehn]

CaNGs:
MossNought
I Will Survive
Gargangel Stompy
Bayou Billy (meh)
Food Chain-Evoke
Wildfire.dec

Non-CaNGs:
Reanimator (rodgon666's version?)
Permanent Waves? (meh)
Bg Spanish Inquisition
Pox - this is a must
Pitch World (if you're that funny)
Legacy Weapon (see Pitch World)
Death & Taxes - whoops, already listed.
Brand Fish (!!)
GAGOMYYYYYYY
False Cure Stompy
Truffle Shuffle
Columbus Confinement (yeah)
Sensei Sensei
Whiskey Tango Foxtrott
Full English Breakfast
Demon Stompy
Blue Skies (I heard that sees play in the US? You'll surely get a list from somebody)
The Game / Grahams?
Rector Survival?
Welder Survival?


Also, switch Mono-R Goblins for Rw Goblins.

[caiomarcos]

I'd love to see a straight B Pox deck, and also the WTF from SCG last article on Legacy.
Welder MUST be present, be in monobrown, survival or whatever.
What about a Rec-Survival list?

[Shugyosha]

I'm missing UG and UGw Threshold. They are both played and successful.

UR(w) Landstill. Some variant just made T8 at a side event. Mono W Stax and 5c Zoo also won't hurt.

Shoot me a PM if you need lists.

[Zach Tartell]

Somebody get me a bracket program; we have a set list of decks, but I need a place to put down the bracket.

[Horror Business]

That crazy looking thing in the most recent Unlocking Legacy with Salvagers, Painter, and Survivals.
Pox
False Cure
If you're gonna run Faeries why not some sort of Uw/Uwb Fish list

[Wallace]

After my last trip to Hadley I have new-found respect for Quinn the Eskimo and Gamekeeper.dec, you could throw those in to the mix.

[Nightmare]

Somebody get me a bracket program; we have a set list of decks, but I need a place to put down the bracket.www.bracketmaker.com

[Jak]

Quinn and Wombat are still quite different. I would include both.

[Wallace]

Here are the brackets:
http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?edit=1&tid=283542&tclass=

http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?edit=1&tid=283542&tclass=other%20half%20of%20Source%20Tournament

Nihil and I will be starting with the Trainwreck/Gardens match and heading down from there. Apologies for the whole "two brackets" thing - my cursory understanding of the internet coupled with little sleep.

What I need from you folks:
-A list for RGBSA
-Pox
-Merfolk
-More patience - this will be a total of 62 rounds. We'll work as fast as we can.

It won't let me in to view the bracket, says I don't have the privilege.

[Wallace]

Looking through the brackets I see 4 match's that look really good.

Bracket 1

Game 9: Dead Guy vs. Burn

Game 10: Faerie Stompie vs. It's the Fear

Bracket 2

Game 10: 4c Landstill vs. Goyf Sligh

Game 16: TES vs. Deamon Stompie

Looks like TES will have a tough time in round 1 while Burn and Goyf Sligh both have tough match's. Can't wait to see the results.

[Kadaj]

Out of curiousity, which variant of MUC did you decide to go with?

[Zach Tartell]

Out of curiousity, which variant of MUC did you decide to go with?

The Brainstorm + Spell Snare one Docks did.

[Dont_Stop_Believin]

Out of curiousity, which variant of MUC did you decide to go with?

I hope not those awful ones that Ive seen people around here championing WITHOUT Brainstorm, LOL.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Are deck lists going to be posted in the near future? It would stop the potential 64, "What x list are you using" questions.

[Zach Tartell]

Are deck lists going to be posted in the near future? It would stop the potential 64, "What x list are you using" questions.

Decks will be posted about a day before we test them, if we feel that the list is up for debate. They will be posted (definitely) by the time we finish a match (duh).

For instance, I reckon we're going to ask for a Burn list. But, conversely, we're playing Eladriel's Faerie Stompy list period. This is only true for a couple archtypes, though. Always feel free to PM one of us a list for something you've been working on - we'll take it under consideration.

[Kadaj]

I hope not those awful ones that Ive seen people around here championing WITHOUT Brainstorm, LOL.

I probably shouldn't even reply to this considering I'm sure in about 5 minutes both of these posts will be deleted by moderators, but I don't feel right letting this go unreplied to.

I don't give a shit if you don't like my list. That's fine, it's perfectly within your rights. However, don't go through the back door of some completely unrelated thread to voice said opinion. You think I'm a total idiot for not including Brainstorm in my MUC build? Then go into the MUC thread and say it there, but don't waste space here.

Back on-topic, I agree with Wallace about the Faerie Stompy vs. It's the Fear matchup. I actually think that's the most geniuenly interesting of all the first roung matchups. Very much looking forward to seeing how that one goes.

[Deep6er]

Really? If I recall correctly, Eldariel lost to a great many opponents playing Pernicious Deed. Seems to me that this would be the same situation. Not like I'm saying anything, but I just find it odd that people would think that match is going to be interesting. Is there something specific about that? I'm just curious.

You know what's irritating? If It's the Fear wins, and Solidarity wins (twice in their respective brackets), then they play each other. I mean come on. That completely negates a David Gearhart finals. That's a frown. :)

Speaking of David Gearhart, who's Solidarity list are you playing?


EDIT: Question to both Nihil and Lonelybaritone: I know it's going to be hard, but are you walking into these matchups knowing the list of your opponent? I mean it just seems like it might be kind of skewed. For example, Enchantress vs. Ichorid. Elephant Grass, pay, pay, pay, Moat. Game. Seems like it would be a let down. It just makes certain games difficult. I know there isn't a truly satisfactory way of ruling this, but is something being done in an attempt to rectify this? Also, this might have an effect on sideboards. After all, a player could trace his games from here straight to the finals and win because of effective boarding. Seems a bit odd to me.

[Zach Tartell]

Speaking of David Gearhart, who's Solidarity list are you playing?

Well, since the Herbig Special still runs a Peek in the Main Deck, probably not that. I figure I'll run a Mono-Blue list (since I don't like the splashes). Accepting suggestions, though.

[Dont_Stop_Believin]

I probably shouldn't even reply to this considering I'm sure in about 5 minutes both of these posts will be deleted by moderators, but I don't feel right letting this go unreplied to.

I don't give a shit if you don't like my list. That's fine, it's perfectly within your rights. However, don't go through the back door of some completely unrelated thread to voice said opinion. You think I'm a total idiot for not including Brainstorm in my MUC build? Then go into the MUC thread and say it there, but don't waste space here.

Back on-topic, I agree with Wallace about the Faerie Stompy vs. It's the Fear matchup. I actually think that's the most geniuenly interesting of all the first roung matchups. Very much looking forward to seeing how that one goes.

Dude, chill out, youre giving yourself way too much credit, I have no idea who you are, and didnt actually mean to direct that at you specifically. I had just heard that on this site that there is a faction of people who have decided that Brainstorm is bad in Mono Blue CONTROL, which I find absurd in the highest degree, I mean its just one of the best blue cards ever, and is and should be an auto-include in pretty much every blue deck since ever :wink:

[Deep6er]

From a theoretical perspective, you could definitely run one of the Solidarity lists that win over in Not-America. I think it's Bahamuth on the Source or possibly Van Phanel. I'm awful with real life names though. Especially not American ones. I think one of them is named Nimz? Fuck. I think I'm guessing. Especially because it would be fucking cool if they were. 'Sup Nimz? God, that'd be fucking badass.

Wow, anyway, back to the subject. Feel free to look it up in the Solidarity thread. I would NOT feel bad at all if you chose to go with somebody else's list since I've more or less dropped Solidarity.

[Eldariel]

Really? If I recall correctly, Eldariel lost to a great many opponents playing Pernicious Deed. Seems to me that this would be the same situation. Not like I'm saying anything, but I just find it odd that people would think that match is going to be interesting. Is there something specific about that? I'm just curious.

In the last Finnish Championships, I played against 4 Deed-playing decks and beat 3. Deed alone certainly isn't going to be a killer. The list I gave for the tournament though is the classic 4-Chalice one so it's going to have a worse control match-up. Still, with the SB Back to Basics along with MD Pestermites, Mulldrifters, 4 Mages, SoLS and company, it should be better than it used to be before Lorwyn.

The last tournament I played, I beat all control-decks I faced (or well, MUC and UWb Landstill - there was also a midrange GBw along the way, but I suppose that doesn't qualify as control; played Deeds though). But I'll emphasize again, that was with the 1 Chalice-list, which is notably better against Deeds (since against Deeds, Chalice is generally just a waste of time and mana - casting it at 1 stops Needles and not casting it at 1 generally doesn't do anything constructive). Of course, that's only G1 and Chalice can indeed still be worth it, its value is just diminished when it gets swept away along with threats.


EDIT: Dont_Stop_Believin, aren't you in the wrong thread? If you want to discuss Brainstorm and its merits in MUC, mayhap you should consider the MUC-thread?

[Deep6er]

Oh, fair enough. Honestly, I mostly remembered the title (Oh! Their Deeds!) and remembered you saying how many Pernicious Deeds you played against that day. Couldn't for the life of me figure out how well you'd done accordingly. Fair enough. Well, we'll see how it goes.

Again, just want to make sure that you know that I wasn't saying that It's the Fear was going to crush Fairy Stompy, was just looking for input.

[Kadaj]

Dude, chill out, youre giving yourself way too much credit, I have no idea who you are, and didnt actually mean to direct that at you specifically. I had just heard that on this site that there is a faction of people who have decided that Brainstorm is bad in Mono Blue CONTROL, which I find absurd in the highest degree, I mean its just one of the best blue cards ever, and is and should be an auto-include in pretty much every blue deck since ever :wink:

I'm not giving myself too much credit considering I'm the person who started that entire movement here in the first place. But whatever, it's not a big deal. Just try to keep the topic where it belongs, which, as Eldariel just pointed out, is the MUC thread.

I don't actually like It's the Fear, or all other lists of that ilk with Counter/Top and other related shenanigans, but I do think it's an interesting matchup. Well played Faerie Stompy can beat just about anything and I'm curious to see how a deck that seems built primarily to beat decks with opimtized, low, curves that basically fold to an active Counterbalance. Mind you, I'm not implying that It's The Fear can't beat anything that isn't all 1cc and 2cc spells, I'm just curious as to whether or not FS's whacky curve combined with its speed and disruption will prove too much for It's the Fear, or will It's the Fear's control elements carry the day?

[Nihil Credo]

EDIT: Question to both Nihil and Lonelybaritone: I know it's going to be hard, but are you walking into these matchups knowing the list of your opponent? I mean it just seems like it might be kind of skewed. For example, Enchantress vs. Ichorid. Elephant Grass, pay, pay, pay, Moat. Game. Seems like it would be a let down. It just makes certain games difficult. I know there isn't a truly satisfactory way of ruling this, but is something being done in an attempt to rectify this? Also, this might have an effect on sideboards. After all, a player could trace his games from here straight to the finals and win because of effective boarding. Seems a bit odd to me.
We're picking and/or tweaking the lists without metagaming considerations; besides, for several of these decks it's difficult enough to find anything approaching a reference list in the first place!

As for mulliganing considerations and the like, we've agreed to try as hard as possible to be unbiased. I habitually do intensive testing, so I'm used to deceive myself into forgetting what I am facing. Zach is OK with that too.

And if I get that video thingy working, you'll be able to call on me for keeping unbalanced hands ;)

[Deep6er]

Badass. I heartily feel that walking in knowing (and playing accordingly) what you're up against, destroys some of the value in doing something like this. It's rare (even moreso in Legacy) to know what you're opponent is playing. Thus, I always try to do testing where you keep hands based on the overall strength of the hand, as opposed to it's strength in the matchup.

Expect me to totally call you on it by the way. I like what this is capable of doing, and it would irk me greatly to have somebody sabotage it. Y'know, just saying. :)

[Wallace]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/Wally891/tourresults.jpg

So here is my prediction for the tournament. If Faerie Stompy can make it past Round one it has a great chance to go all the way (Based on the match ups). Can't wait to see how accurate my bracket is. The Right side (Bracket 2) has a lot of combo in it, the left side is full of one sided match ups and was a little easier to figure out...should be fun.

[The Rack]

I don't really know if all the lists have been chosen yet or anything but if you want the most recent Funkbrew list I can put it in. It does well in San Diego which has seem to be overlooked...

[Eldariel]

Oh, fair enough. Honestly, I mostly remembered the title (Oh! Their Deeds!) and remembered you saying how many Pernicious Deeds you played against that day. Couldn't for the life of me figure out how well you'd done accordingly. Fair enough. Well, we'll see how it goes.

Yea, Deed definitely ain't a fun card to play against and it's definitely strong vs. Faerie Stompy (the title was "Oh My God! Their Deeds!" - I didn't expect to face it 4 out of 6 rounds), just not an "OMG I WIN!" button. As I said, the primary issue vs. Deeds is that the normally awesome Chalice is so-not-awesome vs. it, and since it sweeps Chrome Moxes too it can cause serious card disadvantage.

That said, speed, Needls and Mulldrifters (along with just multicreature draws) can overcome it. I'm really looking forward to the match; I haven't tested vs. It's The Fear at all and it could really go any way. Of course, it's just one match so literally anything could happen.

It's worth noting though that It's The Fear has a significant number of 3-drops so Counterbalance could be a huge deal in the match-up unlike normally. On the other hand, Chalice at 1 makes Counterbalance nigh' trivial... All in all, definitely a match I want to see. Post-SB Back to Basics are definitely going to be huge though. It's not a card It's The Fear wants resolving.


Btw, as for the predictions, I really question your '5c Thresh over Dragon Stompy'-prediction since the 8 Moons are sooo good against 5c.

[THEchubbymuffin]

I believe the final four will be:
MUC
It's the Fear
Dragon Stompy
RGB Goblins

with

RGB Goblins and It's the Fear in Finals

RGB Goblins wins all.

[Wallace]

Yea, Deed definitely ain't a fun card to play against and it's definitely strong vs. Faerie Stompy (the title was "Oh My God! Their Deeds!" - I didn't expect to face it 4 out of 6 rounds), just not an "OMG I WIN!" button. As I said, the primary issue vs. Deeds is that the normally awesome Chalice is so-not-awesome vs. it, and since it sweeps Chrome Moxes too it can cause serious card disadvantage.

That said, speed, Needles and Mulldrifters (along with just multicreature draws) can overcome it. I'm really looking forward to the match; I haven't tested vs. It's The Fear at all and it could really go any way. Of course, it's just one match so literally anything could happen.

It's worth noting though that It's The Fear has a significant number of 3-drops so Counterbalance could be a huge deal in the match-up unlike normally. On the other hand, Chalice at 1 makes Counterbalance nigh' trivial... All in all, definitely a match I want to see. Post-SB Back to Basics are definitely going to be huge though. It's not a card It's The Fear wants resolving.


Btw, as for the predictions, I really question your '5c Thresh over Dragon Stompy'-prediction since the 8 Moons are sooo good against 5c.


I realize that is a tough MU for 5c Thresh, I picked an upset...I really like the idea of doing this tournament, I think the fact that we came up 64 different decks lists with not to many variations of the same arc type. I think this really shows how healthy Legacy is right now.

[emidln]

I was going to note that Sun Tower beats Goyf Sligh on hopes, dreams, and "turn 1 chalice, turn 2 chalice" paired with a high dice roll.

[Jak]

You have some weird picks, Wallace.

[Wallace]

You have some weird picks, Wallace.

Thats what they said 2 years ago in my NCAA bracket. I had 15 teams alive in he sweet 16 and all the elite 8 teams...Ya never know...

[Jak]

Thats what they said 2 years ago in my NCAA bracket. I had 15 teams alive in he sweet 16 and all the elite 8 teams...Ya never know...

I know, but 5c Thresh over Dragon Stompy?

[THEchubbymuffin]

I know, but 5c Thresh over Dragon Stompy?

Well who knows at this point, we don't even have a list. I mean if the 5c Thresh plays goblin lack4y, goblin piledriver, goblin ringleader, and seige-gang commander. Then a moon effect would not affect it that much.

If it is a Hatfield list, than there better some godly rips off to of library for counterbalance to hit cc of 3 for all the moons that will pummel 5c thresh.

[Jak]

Well who knows at this point, we don't even have a list. I mean if the 5c Thresh plays goblin lack4y, goblin piledriver, goblin ringleader, and seige-gang commander. Then a moon effect would not affect it that much.

If it is a Hatfield list, than there better some godly rips off to of library for counterbalance to hit cc of 3 for all the moons that will pummel 5c thresh.

Pretty sure it won't be goblins...

It will be the Hatfield's list.

[Lego]

So here is my prediction for the tournament.

There are only a few major problems I have with your choices:

Train Wreck > Garden... Haunting Echoes wins this one. Deed is surprisingly good as well, and Extirpate out of the board is killer.

RGBSA > Breakfast... Extirpate (Not to mention Thougthseize, Therapy, Engineered Plague, and the real killer: Big Game Hunter.)

Dragon Stompy > 5C Thresh... the whole deck is designed to beat Thresh, and 5C is seemingly designed to lose to Dragon Stompy.

I'm pretty happy with the overall final decks. I was worried that there would be too many variants of single decklists, but it seems to be a pretty representative field :) Seems fun!

[emidln]

Please play a Doomsday list for Fetchland Tendrils. Also, if you don't know the Doomsday stacks, please ask about them. The deck loses a lot of power when it lacks the ability to cast Doomsday in various situations.

[GreenOne]

Please play a Doomsday list for Fetchland Tendrils. Also, if you don't know the Doomsday stacks, please ask about them. The deck loses a lot of power when it lacks the ability to cast Doomsday in various situations.

Aren't you just playing it? frowns...

[Zach Tartell]

The first match, to take place (probably) tomorrow (we're going to take the time to collect lists for each deck before playing instead of just picking them up as we go) is going to be the Trainwreck/Gardens match. The Gardens list is as follows (the orrigional list was a little experimental; we tried to bring it back to the list it had been when it top 4'd Eli's event last August with some newer things):

4 Exploration
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Life from the Loam

3 Intuition
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Trinisphere
4 Smokestack

4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
4 Savannah
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Nomad Stadium

Sideboard:
3 Rule of Law
3 Runed Halo
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt

Our Trainwreck list is pretty standard as well:
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Bayou
3 Cabal Coffers
11 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Polluted Delta
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, The Tomb Of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Creatures (10)
4 Korlash, Heir To Blackblade
3 Oona, Queen Of The Fae
2 Shriekmaw
1 Helldozer

Spells (25)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Damnation
3 Chainer's Edict
3 Haunting Echoes
2 Decree of Pain
2 Staff of Domination

Sideboard (15)
2 Midnight Banshee
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip
4 Extirpate

[Bryant Cook]

The TES bracket is a joke. If TES doesn't win it, I'll be surprised.

EDIT: I just looked over Demon stompy. They have 1 relevant card in their deck. Trinisphere. They don't even play chalice.

[Mirrislegend]

Wow, Wallace pretty much hates everything I think has a decent chance. And I don't see how a MUC running less than 4x MD B2B has even the slightest chance against that sampling of Legacy.

EDIT: I can't access the brackets via those links either.

[Brehn]

EDIT: I just looked over Demon stompy. They have 1 relevant card in their deck. Trinisphere. They don't even play chalice.

Demon Stompy falls under the category "Chalice aggro", so better look again....

@ Train Wreck list: 11 finishers? Is this standard?

[HammafistRoob]

Wow, Wallace pretty much hates everything I think has a decent chance. And I don't see how a MUC running less than 4x MD B2B has even the slightest chance against that sampling of Legacy.

Especially its first round. MUC can't do much about a 12/12 Trampler.

[Mirrislegend]

Not stack-based MUC, that is. On the other hand, that stack-based list runs 3x EE (btw, WTF @ EE).

[Wallace]

Especially its first round. MUC can't do much about a 12/12 Trampler.

Except for counter it...

[emidln]

Top8 predictions:

Breakfast
vs
RW Goblins

Burn
vs
Imperial Aluren

Fetchland Tendrils
vs
Belcher

Goyf Sligh
vs
Canadian Thresh

[Wallace]

So I had to change a pick and it turns out it made a big difference in how I think things will turn out. Dragon Stompy over 5c thresh, so here is my new bracket.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/Wally891/tourresults-1.jpg

[Brehn]

My predictions (strange?):

Top 8:
MUC defeats GWB Survival
Faerie Stompy defeats Spanish Inquisition
Dragon Stompy defeats Baseruption
Goyf Sligh defeats RBg Goblins

Top 4:
Faerie Stompy defeats MUC
Goyf Sligh defeats Dragon Stompy

Finals:
Faerie Stompy vs. Goyf Sligh - hmmm.

Faerie Stompy has a nice bracket indeed... but Wallace, I think you're overrating Imperial Recruiter-based decks :]

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I just looked over Demon stompy. They have 1 relevant card in their deck. Trinisphere. They don't even play chalice.Demon Stompy may be a rough match up for TES depending on the list. It can run any combination of Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, Nether Void, Mindslicer, Mind Shatter, and Delirium Skeins, backed by a reasonable clock.

[Jak]

Demon Stompy may be a rough match up for TES depending on the list. It can run any combination of Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, Nether Void, Mindslicer, Mind Shatter, and Delirium Skeins, backed by a reasonable clock.

I always loved Demon Stompy until the OP of the thread though he could only make the changes. (NOT PHANTOM! It was the first thread on the deck)

Now, I would definitely run a list with a lot of disruption like the deck was intended to be. There aen't many good black creatures so you should take advantage of the few it has by playing them alongside disruption.

[Michael Keller]

Here's how I feel the matches will play out.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1967/tournamentxv0.jpg

[Bryant Cook]

Have people forgotten what Super Gro is? Its the preliminary threshold lists. I'm assuming it's going to beat Fetch Tendrils.

[Jak]

Have people forgotten what Super Gro is? Its the preliminary threshold lists. I'm assuming it's going to beat Fetch Tendrils.

Nothing beats FT! It is 80-20 against everything in the format, remember?

[emidln]

You mean thresh without CB? If you want to play Super Gro against me, I'll bet ya $20.

[Michael Keller]

There is bound to be some upsets in the opening round. As the tournament delves deeper into the bracket, that's when the truly good decks will shine. Unfortunately, there is a lot of combo in these slots and some of the bad matchups for them reside in the same "region".

[Eldariel]

If Faerie Stompy beats "It's The Fear" (a big If; I haven't tested it since It's The Fear is so recent, but my instinctive assumption is that it can't be much better than even and it could be worse, depending on how the counterbalance/deed/shackles/StP combination plays out vs. FS in practice), I find it unlikely that it would lose in the next two rounds.

Deadguy tends to be far too slow in the match-up and Burn really doesn't like Jittes, Chalices et al. Really, after It's the Fear, the next match-up that would be hard would be in best of 8; Imperial Aluren, GBW Rock, Welder Survival, Affinity and Reanimator are all very draw-dependant match-ups.

I'm betting Lands will beat Reanimator though since Lands has Maze of Ith which pretty much does Reanimator in the eye and there's precious little reanimator can do about multiple recurring Mazes, Tabernacle/Waste, recurring Glacial Chasms et al. Probably the worst match-up Reanimator could've gotten (one of the two decks playing Maze of Ith (out of 63)? Really?). But really, the first round looks interesting.

[Brehn]

Hmm. Since when does Reanimator care about Maze of Ith? SSS...
Basically, it just has to win before Chasm comes online. I think this matchup is favorable for Reanimator.

[Michael Keller]

The trick is getting those lands down before Reanimator can go to the house. Of course, I have no clue what Lands does against Simic Sky Swallower or Petradon except wiff.

[Eldariel]

SSS kills in 4 turns. By that time, Lands should've gone through majority of its deck if it had Loam in opener. Also, Reanimator needs SSS with Mazes around due to Akromas getting pretty much ignored. It's not a given that one is easy to find; usually reanimator has redundancy in being able to reanimate multiple game-ending bombs; not so vs. Lands. And Lands is very brutal on manabases.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I have no clue what Lands does against Simic Sky Swallower or Petradon except wiff.Stall with mana denial until you can Burning Wish into Wrath?

[Michael Keller]

Stall with mana denial until you can Burning Wish into Wrath?

Unless they play a Mox Diamond or two, it isn't happenin. That's lethal damage in three to four turns and one of the creatures can't be targeted and two of their lands have been temporarily nixed, putting Life From the Loam tricks on hold for a turn. Assuming they play Burning Wish, they'd more than likely pass the turn. In which case, they die. Either way, you're looking at a lot of damage early.

[KillemallCFH]

Fuck yes Merfolk beating Voroshstill. Unfortunately Merfolk got in an awful bracket with way too many non-blue decks. I don't trust its GWB Survival matchup much, and even if it does win that, both Train Wreck and Pox seem like bad matchups.

[Brehn]

Back to Basics FTW.

MUC lost to Dreadstill? "then loses the counter-war over a Vedalken Shackles." (I haven't ever lost a counterwar with MUC. Strange)

[J.V.]

Back to Basics FTW.

MUC lost to Dreadstill? "then loses the counter-war over a Vedalken Shackles." (I haven't ever lost a counterwar with MUC. Strange)

Yeah Mishra's Factory tends to just win the matchup for Dreadstill. I'm like 5-0 in tournaments against MUC with Dreadstill.

[bigbear102]

My Picks:

RGBSA 2-1
RGBSA 2-0
Dread Still

RGBSA 2-1

It's The Fear
Rock
GWB Rock 2-1

RGBSA

Dragon Stompy 2-1
DS 2-0
Belcher

DS

Imperial Painter 2-1
IP
Feinstein Elves


I would not have picked RGBSA unless the brackets came out this way.

I have intentionally not looked at any results yet, so if this has already started I may be ass backwards wrong.

[Brehn]

You're ass backwards wrong because RGBSA sucks enough to lose against Pox :P

[Mr Wiggl3s]

I'm betting Lands will beat Reanimator though since Lands has Maze of Ith which pretty much does Reanimator in the eye and there's precious little reanimator can do about multiple recurring Mazes, Tabernacle/Waste, recurring Glacial Chasms et al. Probably the worst match-up Reanimator could've gotten (one of the two decks playing Maze of Ith (out of 63)? Really?). But really, the first round looks interesting.

The only one is glacial, but there are easy ways around it. Also, lets not forget hellkite is doing 5dmg to lands face everytime it comes into play, and we can get it into the GY pretty easily

SSS kills in 4 turns. By that time, Lands should've gone through majority of its deck if it had Loam in opener. Also, Reanimator needs SSS with Mazes around due to Akromas getting pretty much ignored. It's not a given that one is easy to find; usually reanimator has redundancy in being able to reanimate multiple game-ending bombs; not so vs. Lands. And Lands is very brutal on manabases.

good reanimate decks dont run akroma >_>

lands only hope is glaical, see above

[Eldariel]

Tgood reanimate decks dont run akroma >_>

lands only hope is glaical, see above

Good Reanimator-decks run Akroma simply because that way one Reanimation-spell resolving is enough to win against good percentage of the format. Also, Bogardan Hellkite? Really?

[The Rack]

Yes really, If you drop 2 Hellkites in the grave and reanimate both that's 10 damage without attacking. Reanimator needed a way to win without attacking. Now it has one. A very good one.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Good Reanimator-decks run Akroma simply because that way one Reanimation-spell resolving is enough to win against good percentage of the format. Also, Bogardan Hellkite? Really?

obviously you dont play reanimate

[Eldariel]

When did the plan change from "Discard a beater, reanimate a beater, profit!" to "3-piece combo that plans on going off multiple times"?

[Deep6er]

Just like to note a couple of things about the tournament as it's progressing (would rather post here than clutter up the information thread).

1) Yay, It's the Fear. Beating Fairy Stompy (sorry Eldariel) and Burn beating Deadguy means that it's going to play against Burn. With appropriate Sideboarding and playing, that match should be favored for It's the Fear.

2) Boo, VoroshStill losing to Merfolk. I really wanted the tournament to have a VoroshStill vs. It's the Fear round and now it looks like that won't happen.

That is all.

EDIT: Also

3) Boo, Goblins beating Eva Green. That's not at all how it should go. At least, when we were testing the match. Unfortunate. I can kind of see it happening, but Goblins must have gotten pretty lucky. Eva Green plays a lot of cards that Goblins just doesn't like to see.

[Nihil Credo]

3) Boo, Goblins beating Eva Green. That's not at all how it should go. At least, when we were testing the match. Unfortunate. I can kind of see it happening, but Goblins must have gotten pretty lucky. Eva Green plays a lot of cards that Goblins just doesn't like to see.

Yeah, kikkofrio who's a good Eva Green pilot told me the same about its R/W Gobs matchup. Anyway, the video should be compressed and uploaded tomorrow or the day after that, but the gist is: G1 Goblins manascrews Eva, G2 Eva doesn't apply enough pressure after a single Plague.

[Eldariel]

I'm not really surprised, although of course I'm disappointed. Still, beyond Forcing the wrong removal (StP generally doesn't warrant a Force, Deed does), there seems to be little FS could've done.

[Zach Tartell]

I'm not really surprised, although of course I'm disappointed. Still, beyond Forcing the wrong removal (StP generally doesn't warrant a Force, Deed does), there seems to be little FS could've done.

It was really a blow-out in my favor. Game 1 ended with me holding 3 Counterspells and six untapped blue sources while swinging in with a 4/5 Goyf. Game two was slower, and I was in some serious shit until I drew and resolved the Deed, and then (next turn) Shackles. It was pretty rough.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

When did the plan change from "Discard a beater, reanimate a beater, profit!" to "3-piece combo that plans on going off multiple times"?

It's still the latter? We got rid of akroma due to pro black... there are other cards out there. Also, in this format, akroma usually gets sworded before any damage is done

[Deep6er]

Also, BOO to Solidarity losing. Don't get me wrong, Solidarity was (probably, I haven't done much testing against NQS) the underdog in that match, but still, what a heartbreaker. :(

[Nihil Credo]

I'm not really surprised, although of course I'm disappointed. Still, beyond Forcing the wrong removal (StP generally doesn't warrant a Force, Deed does), there seems to be little FS could've done.
No, you misread me, it was a Sword of Light and Shadow that got countered (by ITF). I actually played that instead of Sea Drake to save it for the FoW on the Deed I was expected. That came out exactly as I planned it, except for an extra FoW on ITF's part :P.

[Eldariel]

No, you misread me, it was a Sword of Light and Shadow that got countered (by ITF). I actually played that instead of Sea Drake to save it for the FoW on the Deed I was expected. That came out exactly as I planned it, except for an extra FoW on ITF's part :P.

Heh. That explains. Oh well, things happen.

[Nihil Credo]

Also, those 45 people who downloaded the Train Wreck vs. Garden video - or at least those few who PMd me to say they enjoyed it - will be happy to know that five more matches have been uploaded at the same place (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=410c568ee5e467d2d5a101cf914073b46c69af142da8a044).

[Kadaj]

0.00.17 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell takes a mulligan
0.00.22 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell reveals a Swamp
0.00.24 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell reveals a Plains
0.00.28 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell reveals a Brainstorm
0.00.28 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell reveals a Fact or Fiction
0.00.28 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell reveals a Counterspell
0.00.28 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell reveals a Counterspell
0.00.32 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell puts a card on top of Library from Hand
0.00.32 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell puts a card on top of Library from Hand
0.00.32 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell puts a card on top of Library from Hand
0.00.32 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell puts a card on top of Library from Hand
0.00.32 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell puts a card on top of Library from Hand
0.00.32 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell puts a card on top of Library from Hand
0.00.33 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell shuffles library
0.00.34 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell shuffles library
0.00.35 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell shuffles library
0.00.36 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell shuffles library
0.00.38 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell draws a card
0.00.39 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell draws a card
0.00.39 [Zach Tartell] Zach Tartell draws a card
0.00.39 [Nihil Credo] <Nihil Credo> point one for kadaj and his foil monoblue build

I'm going to be honest, I got a real chuckle out of that. Then again, Zach's draws were brutally bad so it's hard to say whether the matchup is quite as lopsided as the log seemed to indicate. Still, that is one matchup where my build might very well have fared better, if not only because Powder Keg is monstrously good against Factory, and it forces the Dreadstill player to either not attack or use Stifles when they should probably be saving them for Shackles and AV.

[Eldariel]

Zach got Brainstormigucked in G1. Also, what's the rush with Brainstorm before Standstill? Force would be nigh' uncastable at that point due to the possibility of Daze anyways and Brainstorm off the only fetch = potential for great screws.

Overall, what was the rush? Why cast B2B already turn 3 instead of when one could cover it? There was still 20 life worth of buffer there. It felt more like Gro-tempo than MUC-tempo.

[caiomarcos]

Game two of Survival vs. Cephalid was DUMB to say the least. Seemed like a child's game - whoever has more Goyfs gets it.

Besides that (Goyf omnipresence), so far the tournament is looking pretty interesting.

[Bryant Cook]

Any updates? Like TES vs. Demon Stompy?

[Nihil Credo]

Any updates? Like TES vs. Demon Stompy?
We've missed each other for the last couple of days, but it's still going on steady.

As for TES vs. Demon Stompy, well, that MU is the very last in the first round, so it will still take a while, unless we choose to do it counterclockwise instead of top-down.

[Zach Tartell]

I'm incognito today as well. Tomorrow we return to your regularlly scheduled programming.

[emidln]

Given my understanding of the brackets and my complete faith in FT, SI is going to take this tournament because of bracketing. There isn't anything until t8 that can take it except itself. Even with an older list, I think SI is going to win this. Maybe people will finally suspect it.

[HammafistRoob]

I don't like the match that Sui Black has round1, it's a toughy.

[Eldariel]

Too bad Wild Zombies drew utter crap for hands. I would've loved to see it do something. Also, RBg Goblins losing to Meathooks was kinda surprising. I'm beginning to think that particular splash combo is pretty bad. And it's funny how Faeries beat a deck with 8 REBs main.

[Zach Tartell]

Too bad Wild Zombies drew utter crap for hands. I would've loved to see it do something. Also, RBg Goblins losing to Meathooks was kinda surprising. I'm beginning to think that particular splash combo is pretty bad. And it's funny how Faeries beat a deck with 8 REBs main.

10, if you count the 2 Active Volcanoes. It's a wicked old list, and I drew for shit, though. When we were picking who'd play what I was like, "yeah, I've goldfished it a couple times (in person with A_Legend's deck), it's not that bad." Turns out it is that bad. I really don't know how the deck does well.

Maybe it's just not my cup of tea.

[Pinder]

Also, RBg Goblins losing to Meathooks was kinda surprising.

I'll admit that I was sort of surprised here as well. If it was the UWg version, then I could understand it because UWg has a field day against Goblins, but I didn't think UWb had that great of a matchup (it's traditionally better against Control, while UWg is better against Aggro and randomness). Still, though, I'm excited to see it get past the first bracket this time.

[Nihil Credo]

It was UWGB actually. So 8 Muscle Slivers and all. You'll have the video by tomorrow.

[Pinder]

It was UWGB actually. So 8 Muscle Slivers and all. You'll have the video by tomorrow.

Oh. In that case, I'm not too surprised. But I might be a little biased. And I look forward to the video, thanks.

[Lego]

10, if you count the 2 Active Volcanoes. It's a wicked old list, and I drew for shit, though. When we were picking who'd play what I was like, "yeah, I've goldfished it a couple times (in person with A_Legend's deck), it's not that bad." Turns out it is that bad. I really don't know how the deck does well.

Maybe it's just not my cup of tea.

I've found the exact opposite. Losing to a MONO-BLUE deck when you maindeck 10 Blasts and 3 Jaya Ballards is sad. In addition to that, you have Imperial Recruiter for Vexing Shusher. And Needle for EE out of the board. How do you lose that?

Is it just me, or has it seemed like a significant number of these matches have included something along the lines of, "I made a a couple really bad play mistakes in this one" or "I screwed up royally" or "Kept a terrible hand here"... seems like that's going to have a bit of an effect on the outcome, huh?

[Eldariel]

That's why these aren't to be taken for any real results; fact is that nobody is very competent in 32 decks, especially when we lack Finkel-like competence in even one deck, and it's even less likely that two persons would happen to be perfectly competent in 32 different decks. Further, the matches are just best of 3, which can be decided by simple manascrew for 2 games or nuts+manascrew or something. They should really be taken as entertainment, since that's what it mostly is (although it's still interesting to see if the favourites do manage).

[Volt]

.

[Tacosnape]

Agreed with Eldariel. Half the fun of these is that it simulates a real tournament. People screw up and highly random things happen.

[Volt]

.

[Nihil Credo]

I actually pondered for a bit over the possibility of a double elimination tournament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_elimination), to make it less random (full Swiss, of course, was right out). But it would have made it a pain to run the full 64 decks, as well as confusing the heck out of everyone, all for a not particularly huge gain in consistency.


Is it just me, or has it seemed like a significant number of these matches have included something along the lines of, "I made a a couple really bad play mistakes in this one" or "I screwed up royally" or "Kept a terrible hand here"... seems like that's going to have a bit of an effect on the outcome, huh?

I'm pretty sure a significant number of RL matches include something like that, too.

Also, half the point of putting up the logs and videos is to have the watchers blast the players for every single mistake they make, which is after all where the fun comes from in spectator sports. And if the watchers are knowledgeable, it might even be a useful thing.

[emidln]

Wow, you mean to tell me that Sun Tower lost because the list didn't play 4 Pithing Needle between main and side, something I have advocated doing since...2006? Didn't see that one coming. Oh wait, I pointed that out in the deck list thread.

I actually found a really nice quote from myself on the last page of the Sun Tower thread when someone suggested cutting it. Here we go:



- Pithing Needle

I've played this as a 4-of for the longest time. I think I even wrote about this card in the Sun Tower primer like a year and a half ago. It's seriously tits. You should play 5 and just not get caught. It's probably worth it because it's that good.


I would much sooner cut Boil than Pithing Needle. Pithing Needle is actually mandatory. There are so many applications. Fetchlands, deeds, tops, cycling lands (think loam decks playing tranquil thicket), manlands, etc, etc, etc.

Anyway, thanks for actually putting time into playing the deck. You've now played it more in the last 4 months than I have. Even without it actually winning, someone might pick it up and start playing with it some due to the exposure.

[Nihil Credo]

Heh, I thought so too, but in retrospect, it wouldn't have mattered. In game 2, Zach answered the Scepter with Chalice@1, which is better than Needle anyway given the Welder already in play. In game 3, I'd have to check with him but the turn before I EOT tutored for Scepter he had six mana in play and only dropped a Words of Wilding, so I'm pretty sure he didn't have the nutty Jester's Cap in hand (which is what Needle would have replaced).

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Did you use the Quinn list I sent Baritone, or the one posted in the decklist thread?

[Lego]

I didn't mean to slight anyone's playskills. I'm sure the same mistakes would happen were I the one playing, I was just commenting on it :)


Did you use the Quinn list I sent Baritone, or the one posted in the decklist thread?

I hope you sent him the one I think you sent him. So hot. If they didn't use it the first time around, they should for the next round.

[KillemallCFH]

In the Fae vs Painter, you played Ancestral Visions as Suspend 3, when it is actually Suspend 4. I'm not sure what effect this may have had on the game, but yeah, it has Suspend 4.

[Nihil Credo]

In the Fae vs Painter, you played Ancestral Visions as Suspend 3, when it is actually Suspend 4. I'm not sure what effect this may have had on the game, but yeah, it has Suspend 4.

Whoops, that is embarrassing :frown:

I checked the game 1, where AV was played, to see if we might have to replay the match. The first Ancestral Vision was indifferent, because the game-winning EE would have still resolved on the same turn, and due to Top and a known top of my library I wouldn't have even missed a land drop. The second is more difficult to evaluate, but the result seems to be that I would have lost 1-3 more life to Imperial Recruiter beats (depending on how this affected my blocks) and 2 less life to Bitterblossom tokens.

In the end, I believe that the match wasn't affected; I'll discuss it with Zach anyway. Thanks for spotting this!

[ACME_Myst]

omg, you guys ran Wild Zombies? First off, thanks for that, I only just found out.

Second, I understand you don't want people bitchin about lists in here, but I'll still ask what the reason was to only include 2 Firestorms? That cards is the absolute tits.

Third, some comments on the games:

Game 1:
- I probably would have kept that first hand, especially given the fact that you're on the draw. Drawing Zombie Infestation, Wild Mongrel, Firestorm or a cycle-land would have put you in bussiness.

- You misplayed on turn 2 by playing Zombie Infestation. Zoo plays a metric fuckton of burn, so playing ZI in that scenario while having 0 recursive stuff is basically a way to timewalk yourself while getting one-for-three'd. You should have passed, taken the Swiftblade hit, hoped they play a second creature on their postcombat mainphase, fry them both and throw 3 to the dome. Had he not played a creature, just fry swiftblade using firestorm and hit him for two.

Game 2:

- I might have kept the first 7 cards, since drawing any of the remaining 21 lands makes this hand absolutely amazing. Though, I understand the mulligan.

- I probably would have played ZI before Wild Mongrel, but I can see what you're doing there. Anyway, Jitte wielding Tarmogoyf's suck.

To finish up, one more thanks for giving the deck a shot. Good luck with the rest of the tourney!

[Pinder]

Countersliver has a pretty good chance of beating Canadian Thresh in the next round, too.

While it's far from a wash, if Thrash is packing the Stifle/Wasteland package, it could give Countersliver a bit of trouble. Especially in the 4c list (although I'll have to double-check the list they're actually using), the manabase can be a tad shaky.

[Eldariel]

I think I'll give predictions from now on a go:
Belcher beats Terrageddon
Ichorid beats Enchantress
Rg Loam beats Baseruption
Armageddon Stax beats Goyfstill
5c Thresh beats Green Stompy
Dragon Stompy beats Dracoplosion
I Will Survive beats Sui Black
Super Gro beats Fetchland Tendrils

Pox beats Train Wreck
Survival beats Merfolk
Flow Madness beats Dreadstill
Rw Goblins beats Wishstill
ITF beats Burn
Berserker beats NQS
Welder Survival beats SI
Reanimator beats Affinity
Swan&Moon beats TES
Thrash beats Meathooks
Faeries beat Domain Zoo
Quinn beats Landstill
Belcher beats Ichorid
Rg Loam beats Armageddon Stax
Dragon Stompy beats 5c Thresh
I Will Survive beats Super Gro

Survival beats Pox
Rw Goblins beats Flow Madness
ITF beats Berserker
Welder Survival beats Reanimator
Thrash beats Swan&Moon
Quinn beats Faeries
Belcher beats Rg Loam
Dragon Stompy beats I Will Survive

Rw Goblins beats Survival
ITF beats Welder Survival
Quinn beats Thrash
Dragon Stompy beats Belcher

Rw Goblins beats ITF
Quinn beats Dragon Stompy

Rw Goblins beats Quinn


Mostly based on relative deck speeds, manabase stability vs. hate, archetype advantages and specific trump cards (and whether they have time to come into play). I may be giving Goblins too much credit with only 3 Ports and 21 lands (WTF?), but bleh...

[suprafan386]

enchantress will beat ichorid
elephant grass and ground seal main deck kinda hurts ichorid's game plan

[Eldariel]

enchantress will beat ichorid
elephant grass and ground seal main deck kinda hurts ichorid's game plan

Depends. If Ichorid wheels fast enough, it can Therapy the Enchantress-engine to shreds, and if that happens, it doesn't need to worry about the Dread Return, which is the only card Ground Seal impacts. I'd wager Enchantress is the dog since it needs very specific cards to win and has a couple of turns lower fundamental turn.

[Nihil Credo]

Pat yourself on the back, you nailed the first one of that list :P

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Depends. If Ichorid wheels fast enough, it can Therapy the Enchantress-engine to shreds, and if that happens, it doesn't need to worry about the Dread Return, which is the only card Ground Seal impacts. I'd wager Enchantress is the dog since it needs very specific cards to win and has a couple of turns lower fundamental turn.

4 Elephant Grass, 1 Moat, 3 Solitary Confinement... I'm thinking, "Rip their hand to shreds with Cabal Therapy" isn't going to be enough of an answer in all likelihood. I put your odds at one in six, seven at best. At least you have the 2x Ray of Revelation in the board.

[Eldariel]

I was thinking of going for Enchantress-effects rather; Solitary Confinement cannot be played if Enchantress has none and it's iffy with just 1. Post-board it's a whole different game.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

In that your win margin creeps up from 11% to 14%. Everything in that matchup is stacked against Ichorid unless it gets a God draw and/or Enchantress draws shit. I've seen it before, it's not pretty.

[Eldariel]

I'll take your word for it. Ultimately, I feel it won't impact the big picture much as I fully expect Belcher to take out whichever the next round (although if it ends up going for EtW once too often, it could be reversed which would change my predictions quite a bit).

[emidln]

I'll take your word for it. Ultimately, I feel it won't impact the big picture much as I fully expect Belcher to take out whichever the next round (although if it ends up going for EtW once too often, it could be reversed which would change my predictions quite a bit).

It's not like Belcher has much of a choice. The deck is statistically biased towards ETW.

[Eldariel]

It's not like Belcher has much of a choice. The deck is statistically biased towards ETW.

Yes, hence the "once too often"-part. I fully expect the match to go to 3 and at least one game go for EtW, that game being the one Belcher loses. Still, with one mulligan, there's an over 50% chance of Belcher (if not a Belcher-hand), so ultimately I'm betting for Belch (the fact that Belch isn't SBing a Reverent Silence can be a deciding factor vs. Enchantress though).

[Zach Tartell]

Yes, hence the "once too often"-part. I fully expect the match to go to 3 and at least one game go for EtW, that game being the one Belcher loses. Still, with one mulligan, there's an over 50% chance of Belcher (if not a Belcher-hand), so ultimately I'm betting for Belch (the fact that Belch isn't SBing a Reverent Silence can be a deciding factor vs. Enchantress though).

Enchantress is also boarding 4 Chant, which will help post turn 1.

It's a terrible match. Ichroid will probably lose to Enchantress ('specially with that handsome, charming guy who plays it.... playing it), but I don't see much help even with the Chants for Enchantress. I really wish the brackets worked differently (which could have been as easy as me just re-randomizing the numbers, but that'd've been cheap).

[Tacosnape]

Man, I just noticed that Dragon Stompy and Draco Explosion are facing each other in the first round. Out of this entire tournament how did the only two lists I have remote claims on end up paired in round one?

Shame that Dragon Stompy kicks the shit out of Dracoplosion. Next time I submit my Magnivore deck.:cool:

[B.C.]

Is this picking back up soon? I get the sense that people are starting to lose interest after the MWS tournament started. That's unfortunate because this tournament is awesome.

[Cire]

Im just hoping for a Beserk Stompy vs. Burn matchup

[emidln]

I'm glad to see all three Tendrils decks making it into the second round. With the matchups posted, it looks like all three should be in third round as well.

[Lego]

I'm glad to see all three Tendrils decks making it into the second round. With the matchups posted, it looks like all three should be in third round as well.

Sui Black might be able to beat FT, right? And Swan & Moon Thresh could possibly beat TES? I'm not saying either is likely, but they're not sure-fire matchups, unless I'm mistaken?

I'd call foul if Welder Survival beat SI though. Because of brackets, SI looks like it's actually got a serious shot at the finals.

Could we actually have a Tendrils on Tendrils final here? Following a TES on FT semis? :wink:

[Wallace]

Wow, TES goes down to Swan & Moon Thresh, guess TES's luck ran out after beating Demon Stompy.

[Jaiminho]

Wow, TES goes down to Swan & Moon Thresh, guess TES's luck ran out after beating Dragon Stompy.

Demon Stompy, actually.

[Wallace]

Demon Stompy, actually.

"Thats what I said, boody Trap" :wink:

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Is Goblins really out of the running that early?


Also, Go Quinn!

Even though it's missing the awesome combo-kill because Zach said he hates me and won't invite me to his birthday party.

[thefreakaccident]

I actually predict that faeries will win this thing... mainly due to the fact that none of the MUs comming up are particularly difficult... although, the jankiness of the list being used can and probably will be a factor.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

How are Landstill and Quinn not both completely terrible matchups for Faeries?

[thefreakaccident]

Faeries totally molest control decks, especially board based control decks.

I will admit though, that list being used in this 'competition' will have a lot of dead weight in those MUs...

I would boast that my build of faeries happens to have an excellent landstill MU... as for the quinn MU... I don't think faeries will have to worry about that one unless quinn somehow beats landstill (although, it very well could... I have never tested that MU, so I do not know how it would/could pan out)...

I have found that many cards found in faerie decks tend to give these such decks many problems... vendilion clique, mistbind clique, scion of oona, bitterblossom... all being prime examples, and this is not including the fact that the faerie deck runs more relevant disruption than either of those two decks.


EDIT: explanation of what I just said-- The faerie deck runs 16 countermagic (including the two CB), and two 'discard', which should allow it to win every permission battle aside from the mirror... and did I already mention how amazing bitterblossom is against board control? Plus it has man lands (less relevent), and answers to the opposing decrees (tutorable EE/recurrable)... and it runs a decent amount of draw...

So, yeah... I believe them to be good MUs.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I always find it amazing how all these unbeatable decks coexist in the format harmoniously.

It's really nature's miracle.

[thefreakaccident]

I am not saying the deck is unbeatable... far from it...

I am just saying it can beat board control, and that it is a solid deck that will alter the way we are used to playing legacy (instant speed critters a plenty do that sometimes)...

It is not like the end all deck, I may have come off too strongly, but it does have a solid control MU... that is all I was trying to say, although I get where you are coming from, I could have worded it better :)

[emidln]

I am not saying the deck is unbeatable... far from it...

I am just saying it can beat board control, and that it is a solid deck that will alter the way we are used to playing legacy (instant speed critters a plenty do that sometimes)...

It is not like the end all deck, I may have come off too strongly, but it does have a solid control MU... that is all I was trying to say, although I get where you are coming from, I could have worded it better :)

Assuming it does win the control matchup, it's likely playing red thresh in one form or another in round after. Red Thresh seems like it would be an abysmal matchup.

[Brehn]

I always find it amazing how all these unbeatable decks coexist in the format harmoniously.

It's really nature's miracle.

That's because there are decks like Threshold, Fetchland Tendrils or Dreadstill, which have an abysmal matchup against every deck in the format, to balance it.

[thefreakaccident]

That's because there are decks like Threshold, Fetchland Tendrils or Dreadstill, which have an abysmal matchup against every deck in the format, to balance it.



Now, Don't take what I have said out of context... I know you were just making a joke, but I am not discrediting any already proven decks.

I don't want this to turn ugly, with people thinking I am preaching about such things, when I am not...




Assuming it does win the control matchup, it's likely playing red thresh in one form or another in round after. Red Thresh seems like it would be an abysmal matchup.


Now, the Tempo threshold MU is a tough one, but definitely not unwinable... I have yest to test the red balanced version against faeries, but the 4c (ugwb) version did succumb to faeries 4/5 games (in my moderate testing with Mister Agent)...

I think it is the faerie deck that is being taken lightly, but we'll all just have to see now won't we?

[Mister Agent]

Ugr Thrash would even be a tougher matchup especially postboard. On top of lightning bolt and fire/ice there is pyroclasm and red elemental/pyro-blasts. Faeries can't recover at a efficient rate like goblins can after being competely disrupted. Therefore, after the assault of disruption thrash will just go the beatdown route with geeses and goyfs.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

That's because there are decks like Threshold, Fetchland Tendrils or Dreadstill, which have an abysmal matchup against every deck in the format, to balance it.

Not to mention control. I think I've yet to see a deck outside of Storm Combo that claims anything but a positive matchup against every form of control. It's almost silly that people even play Wrath of God.

[thefreakaccident]

Why don't you just test this for yourself?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Because that would be harder? Duh. It's this kind of failure to grasp the intuitive that inhibits your deckbuilding skills.


Lawl, I hit a nerve.


creatures//14
4 scion of oona
4 spellstutter sprite
3 mistbind clique
3 gilded drake

spells//25
4 bitterblossom

4 counterspell
4 force of will
3 spell snare
2 cryptic command

4 brainstorm
4 ancestral vision

lands//21
4 mutavault
2 faerie conclave
4 underground sea
3 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
5 island


Perhaps if you actually tested something so you knew what the fuck you were talkng about, you wouldn't sound like such an arrogant and ignorant fuck.


Try getting your head out of your ass, and test something before you pass judgement, jackass.


Luv u 2.

I could always ask Zilla to playtest the list later, but the truth is,

a) I don't care about U/B Faeries, because the fact that it's a creature deck without Tarmogoyf already tells me enough about it's quality, and

b) After four years of smashing Zilla's face in the IBA-Control vs. random Aggro-Control-ForceofWill deck, I think I've about tapped that resource. I doubt ICan'tWinwithoutresolvingBitterblossom.dec is going to change his mind and draw him into the arena.


Also, internal consistency for the win.


I have found that many cards found in faerie decks tend to give these such decks many problems... vendilion clique, mistbind clique, scion of oona, bitterblossom... all being prime examples, and this is not including the fact that the faerie deck runs more relevant disruption than either of those two decks.


EDIT: explanation of what I just said-- The faerie deck runs 16 countermagic (including the two CB), and two 'discard', which should allow it to win every permission battle aside from the mirror... and did I already mention how amazing bitterblossom is against board control? Plus it has man lands (less relevent), and answers to the opposing decrees (tutorable EE/recurrable).

So, I count 17 counters, none of which are CB, three of which suck generally against non-Thresh decks (Spell Snare), four of which suck against board removal (Spellstutter), and two of which cost four freaking mana (Cryptic Command). I'm also not seeing an Engineered Explosives, much less a tutorable recursion one, or any Vedal Onion Cliques.


This is the phenomena known as "Toad-i-Tog"; your decklist is amazing, as it counters answers to everything and every good card you could want. The flaw comes when you actually have to write it all down and fit it within sixty cards. Frowny face.

[thefreakaccident]

Do you wish to play right now?

I truely doubt you could possibly ever beat me in a game, as your personal skill as a player is diminutive at best.



So, I count 17 counters, none of which are CB, three of which suck generally against non-Thresh decks (Spell Snare), four of which suck against board removal (Spellstutter), and two of which cost four freaking mana (Cryptic Command). I'm also not seeing an Engineered Explosives, much less a tutorable recursion one, or any Vedal Onion Cliques.


I was talking about the list in the competition before... as it was the one that was originally being discussed.

@ decklist critiques-- Cryptic command is more of a utility slot, taking the bounce slot, while allowing a lot more flexibility (just so happens to be a blue 'wrath' of sorts and being able to counter things in the late game)... spell snare is amazing in the format currently, i don't have been for the last year or so...

@ Spellstutter sprite-- it is an additional counter to increase the count while also being able to counter most things in the format with ease and adding a threat to boot... Yeah this this card is terrible...

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Do you wish to play right now?

I truely doubt you could possibly ever beat me in a game, as your personal skill as a player is diminutive at best.

And no, I don't wish to play you; I'm busy playing Disgaea. But you have fun with that.

[Cabal-kun]

Do you wish to play right now?

I truely doubt you could possibly ever beat me in a game, as your personal skill as a player is diminutive at best.

Attacking someone's playing skill indicates that you really have none yourself.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I think we resolved it over PM, so let's move onwards.


Vedilion Clique is my new favoritest blue beatstick since Serendib Efreet, however.

[Kadaj]

TBA, how is Quinn's matchup with Landstill? I don't know a whole lot about the dynamics of it, I just remember Rabid Wombat having an unbelievable UW Landstill matchup back in the day. Does that still apply here?

On a side-note, please don't mention Disgaea again, or I will have a serious craving to transmirgrate my Divine Majins again... bahhh.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Eh. Not so much. Rabid Wombat was basically a lot of cards that drew you into lands and more Eternal Dragons/Decree of Justices, whereas Quinn runs less of both and doesn't dig quite as fast, as it's running more actual cards. A lot of those actual cards aren't as good against Deed. DoJ certainly isn't. I anticipate this matchup taking approximately forever, as both decks run more removal than the other has kill conditions. I'd feel a lot better about my chances if they were running the list I suggested in PMs, but the policy in the tournament appears to be to keep the current lists that are "proved" in some tournament or another. Although this seems inconsistent with this particularly worrying comment attached to the used Quinn list;



Comment: I'll confess that I hacked together this list at the last minute, only testing it on a couple of MWS randoms.

I'd be much happier if I saw a third Top in the list, for instance. And no Ancient Den. Although that's more of a meta concern than a bad call in general, although I've dropped Den from my list long since.

[Lego]

And no, I don't wish to play you; I'm busy playing Disgaea. But you have fun with that.

Hot. Which one? I've only ever played the PSP one, but it's quite fun :)

[Bryant Cook]

Lies. All lies...

[J.V.]

Here's my Predictions for the rest of the tournament:

Round 3:
Canadian Thresh beats Meathooks
Domain Zoo beats UB Faeries
4c Landstill beats TMQ
Belcher beats Enchantress
Armageddon Stax beats RG Loam
Dragon Stompy beats Green Stompy
Suiblack beats FT

Round 4:
GWB Survival beats Pox
Dreadstill SG beats UWb Landstill
ITF beats Berserk Stompy
SI beats Reanimator
Canadian Thresh beats Swan and Moon
4c Landstill beats Domain Zoo
Belcher beats Armageddon Stax
Suiblack beats Dragon Stompy

Round 5:
Dreadstill SG beats GWB Survival
SI beats ITF
Canadian Thresh beats 4c Landstill
Belcher Beats Suiblack

Round 6:
Dreadstill SG beats SI
Canadian Thresh beats Belcher

Round 7:
Dreadstill SG beats Canadian Thresh

[emidln]

Round 3:
Canadian Thresh beats Meathooks
Domain Zoo beats UB Faeries
TMQ beats 4c Landstill
Belcher beats Enchantress
RG Loam beats Armageddon Stax
Dragon Stompy beats Green Stompy
FT beats Suiblack

Round 4:
GWB Survival beats Pox
Dreadstill SG beats UWb Landstill
ITF beats Berserk Stompy
SI beats Reanimator
Canadian Thresh beats Swan and Moon
Domain Zoo beats TMQ
Belcher beats RG Loam
FT beats Dragon Stompy

Round 5:
Dreadstill SG beats GWB Survival
SI beats ITF
Canadian Thresh beats Domain Zoo
FT beats Belcher

Round 6:
SI beats Dreadstill SG
Canadian Thresh splits with FT

Round 7:
Three Way Split between Decks designed by former BZK people

[J.V.]

How does SI beat a deck with
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
etc
etc
?

[emidln]

How does SI beat a deck with
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
etc
etc
?

Turn 1 kill 60% of the time vs Turn 1 FoW 40% of the time. It races Dreadstill, just like everything else. Speed kills. Oh, and failing that it tries to Therapy a lot.

[Rood]

Turn 1 kill 60% of the time vs Turn 1 FoW 40% of the time. It races Dreadstill, just like everything else. Speed kills. Oh, and failing that it tries to Therapy a lot.

It's true, SI is no cake-walk for Dreadstill.

[emidln]

It's true, SI is no cake-walk for Dreadstill.

A lot of SI's matchups depend greatly on the dice roll. On the play, there isn't any deck that's scarier than SI. On the draw, things like Daze, Spell Snare, etc can become relevant and require much slower play with baiting and sculpting. Turn 1 on the play though, Dreadstill is just like any other blue deck: 56 cards and 4 Force of Will. I would particularly like seeing Dreadstill as an SI player, but with the given list, it seems that the old style 3 Tendrils, Belcher, 4 Therapy build will have a much more winnable matchup should the games go past turn 1 than the ETW builds (at least against Dreadstill and it's infinite EEs).

[J.V.]

Turn 1 kill 60% of the time vs Turn 1 FoW 40% of the time. It races Dreadstill, just like everything else. Speed kills. Oh, and failing that it tries to Therapy a lot.

Ah, it runs therapy, I didn't realize that. Fair enough. Also thats true losing the dice roll wouldn't end well for Dreadstill.

[Tacosnape]

God, this bracket setup makes me think Pox has a legitimate shot to win this entire tournament.

Somebody just kill me if this happens.

[Wallace]

So is thing going to continue any time soon?

[Pinder]

So is thing going to continue any time soon?

Seriously. They stopped right before Meathooks was about to beat Canadian Thresh.

[Zach Tartell]

Shut up.

(We're starting in like thirty seconds)

[Pinder]

Shut up.

(We're starting in like thirty seconds)

Sweeeeeeeet.

[Nihil Credo]

Just for you, an anticipation:

Pre-game chatter:


[21:38] lonelybaritone: I feel better about my thresh skills. though I think slivers will pwn me
[21:38] Nihil Cred0: i wouldn't bet on this, canadian is hell if vial/crystalline don't CIP

Short version: They CIPd.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Seriously. Can I get a last second appeal on that Quinn list? 2 Divning Tops. Serially.

[Pinder]

Short version: They CIPd.

w00t!

That said, I sort of wish TES had taken it over Swan Song, because Moon is going to be no fun at all on a 4c manabase with Mutavaults in it :frown:.

[frolll]

Kudos to you, Nihil and Zach, for playing all that matches for us ^^

Man, Slivers getting the best of Tempo UGR Threshold, that's unexpected...

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Not really. Slivers tends to roll things that don't have board sweepers. One or two Tarmogoyfs is no match for a board full of 6/6 untargetable blinking flyers.

[goobafish]

Man, Slivers getting the best of Tempo UGR Threshold, that's unexpected...

Where does it say that?

[frolll]

Nihil said it there :




[21:38] lonelybaritone: I feel better about my thresh skills. though I think slivers will pwn me
[21:38] Nihil Cred0: i wouldn't bet on this, canadian is hell if vial/crystalline don't CIP
Short version: They CIPd.

[goobafish]

Nihil said it there :

Oh. Meh, Canadian has an advantage in the matchup with Rebs and Clasms postboard. Not too sure what was in this sideboard.

[Pinder]

Oh. Meh, Canadian has an advantage in the matchup with Rebs and Clasms postboard. Not too sure what was in this sideboard.

Not to mention, I think Nihil's comment was about G1 only. That's definitely a plus for Slivers, but I don't think he meant that they took the match yet.

[goobafish]

Not to mention, I think Nihil's comment was about G1 only. That's definitely a plus for Slivers, but I don't think he meant that they took the match.

I haven't done any Meathooks testing recently, but before Goyf and Ponder, I never lost to Meathooks w/ Canadian Thresh (I think I even played you at GP Columbus).

[Pinder]

I haven't done any Meathooks testing recently, but before Goyf and Ponder, I never lost to Meathooks (I think I even played you at GP Columbus).

First off: holy shit, we did play (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/gpcol07/pair11) (look at table 49). I didn't even know that was you. And yeah, you rolled me. If I recall, I couldn't find an answer to a huuuuuuge Dryad. And you kind of fucked my manabase.

As far as the matchup pre-Goyf and Ponder, the list I ran at Columbus was a UWg list with no CB/Top. 4c with CB/Top and Hibernation is likely to be different, although the manabase in 4c is a bit shakier IMO, so tempo Thresh should (in theory) be favored if they can keep Slivers off mana.

Unless Aether Vial sticks. Which I hear it did. Honestly I'd say that current versions of Countersliver are about 50/50 against most versions of Thresh.

[Volt]

.

[goobafish]

Honestly, of the common variants of Thresh, Canadian Thresh is probably the best matchup for Countersliver. Wastelands and Stifles aren't as scary as Counterbalance and Engineered Explosives.

Wastelands, Stifles, 8 Burn Spells and Spell Snares aren't as scary as Top and Explosives? I think that is hard to justify.

[Nihil Credo]

Basically, here's how it went: Game 1, Vial resolved on the play with double counter protection and then dropped Crystalline, Sinew, Sinew, Sinew, so it didn't really care what Canadian did. Game 2, multiple Hibernation and Sinews managed to kill three Mongeese at the price of sending MeatHooks down to 4 life, then the Slivers finished the job in three swings before Thrash could find two burn spells.

[Volt]

.

[Anusien]

EE is a lot better against the scary Sliver draws (the ones that involve Crystalline Slivers or multiple Muscle Slivers) than burn. Most of the time, EE is just as good as burn, except sometimes it's a lot better.

[Zach Tartell]

Spoiler Alert:

Sexual Vanilla beats a total of 30 goblins in three games.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I'm going to, again, eleventh hour petition for a change of Mighty Quinn lists, on the basis that the list posted is untested crap (versus a heavily tested Landstill decklist that won a 100 person tournament or something, so yay).

Seriously. 2 Divining Tops. WTF, mate?

[Zach Tartell]

I'm going to, again, eleventh hour petition for a change of Mighty Quinn lists, on the basis that the list posted is untested crap (versus a heavily tested Landstill decklist that won a 100 person tournament or something, so yay).

Seriously. 2 Divining Tops. WTF, mate?

Quinn hit them before turn four or five both games. Also, Landstill lucksacked like a champ into the case-removal pieces. Even through blatant play mistakes (could've used a d20 for the fuck-up die this game).

Watch the video or read the log; it was crazy.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

There's a log?

[Zach Tartell]

Bam (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=410c568ee5e467d2d5a101cf914073b46c69af142da8a044). I can't say that my witty commentary makes it any more enjoyable, but it might be worth your time (personally I can't stand reading through the logs. Also, I haven't watched the videos, 'cause I don't have the player).

[Nihil Credo]

I just posted the short blurbs, and I'll soon put up the logs too. Videos will come tomorrow after I've compressed them.

[Brehn]

Lol. Enchantress beat Belcher. Lol. But both Loam and Stax are not-so-good matchups :<


Dreadstill SG beats UWb Landstill

Dreadstill SG beats UWb Landstill

I can't see that happening ever.

[Pinder]

Bam (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=410c568ee5e467d2d5a101cf914073b46c69af142da8a044). I can't say that my witty commentary makes it any more enjoyable, but it might be worth your time (personally I can't stand reading through the logs. Also, I haven't watched the videos, 'cause I don't have the player).

A few highlights:


0.06.32 [Zach Tartell] <Zach Tartell> stupid crystaline sliver



0.08.23 [Zach Tartell] <Zach Tartell> fuck vial
0.08.27 [Zach Tartell] <Zach Tartell> and shroud



0.10.23 [Zach Tartell] <Zach Tartell> stupid slivers
0.10.28 [Zach Tartell] <Zach Tartell> Pinder'll be happy, though


He was right :smile:

[J.V.]

Lol. Enchantress beat Belcher. Lol. But both Loam and Stax are not-so-good matchups :<


Dreadstill SG beats UWb Landstill


Dreadstill SG beats UWb Landstill


I can't see that happening ever.

Have you ever played the matchup? No Dead... No K-Grip... It's really not that hard of a matchup.

[Nihil Credo]

I've beaten Dreadstill (Goyfless) a few times recently with UWb Landstill. Preboard is dangerous, it's usually Daze that does me in (4CC removal is a liability here). Postboard, between Meddling Mage and Runed Halo in addition to Swords/Explosives, it's easy enough to disable the Dreadnought combo, at which point two more Wastelands don't really compare to the late-game power of Cunning Wish, Eternal Dragon and Decree of Justice.

Overall, I'd say the match hangs in UWb Landstill's favor by a small-to-medium margin. If I were inclined to give percentages, and I'm not, I'd put it between 55 and 65 in LS's favour.

[J.V.]

I've beaten Dreadstill (Goyfless) a few times recently with UWb Landstill. Preboard is dangerous, it's usually Daze that does me in (4CC removal is a liability here). Postboard, between Meddling Mage and Runed Halo in addition to Swords/Explosives, it's easy enough to disable the Dreadnought combo, at which point two more Wastelands don't really compare to the late-game power of Cunning Wish, Eternal Dragon and Decree of Justice.

Overall, I'd say the match hangs in UWb Landstill's favor by a small-to-medium margin. If I were inclined to give percentages, and I'm not, I'd put it between 55 and 65 in LS's favour.

On the other side of the table I'm like 10-0 in my last ten rounds against UWx Landstill. But I guess I would say that it is slightly in landstills favor, I'd say more like 55-45 though. Anyways, I guess we'll see.

[Deep6er]

I'd say that since Landstill has access to neither Deed nor Krosan Grip (which are both beatings for Dreadstill), it's going to be a difficult to examine matchup.

While Landstill has solid removal effects, Dreadstill has counters and Counterbalance (which could be huge against Landstill). Alternatively, the later the game goes, the more bomb-y cards that Landstill has access to.

If I had to put money on the match, I'd put Landstill ahead, but not by a huge margin. I don't really think I can pin down numbers though. Maybe around the 55%? I guess? That number doesn't sound right though. I don't know. Just my thoughts on the matter.

I DO know that Dreadstill has a serious problem with the cards Pernicious Deed and Krosan Grip though. I'm pretty sure nobody can talk me out of that one. Especially after seeing the havoc they caused in my top 8 match against it.

[emidln]

I heard a rumor that RG Loam, Dragon Stompy, and FT advanced into the 3rd round.

[Brehn]

I just gonna believe you - new predictions:

Top 8
Pox (has beaten Survival before in this tournament)
UWb Landstill (yes, I've played the matchup. And I'd put it more like 70-30 in favor of LS)
Berserk Stompy (ITF has serious problems with aggro)
SI (Reanimator = goldfish)
Fetchland Tendrils (that list plays 4 Serenity. DS doesn't play 3sphere main. I've tested this specific matchup and it's slightly favorable for FT. This is a really shaky candidate though.)
RG Loam (I really hate that matchup when playing Enchantress. Sorry, Zach)
4C Landstill (because IBA said that Faeries suck against board control)
SM Thresh (1. Combo 2. Blood Moon sb)

Top 4
UWb Landstill (> Pox)
SI (Berserk Stompy = goldfish)
Fetchland Tendrils (RG Loam = close to goldfish)
4C Landstill (because Landstill always wins against Thresh. Always always always lol)

Yeah, Landstill and Combo. I won't make further predictions.

(If Fetchland Tendrils should lose to Dragon Stompy, replace it with Aggro Loam in the Top 4)

[Jak]

Enchantress will make the finals.

[Zach Tartell]

I heard a rumor that RG Loam, Dragon Stompy, and FT advanced into the 3rd round.

Yeah. I went 0-fer on the day. Actual report will be up later.

(BTW, I didn't even win a game.)

[Jak]

I heard a rumor that RG Loam, Dragon Stompy, and FT advanced into the 3rd round.

RG aggro loam should lose to Enchantress as long as Enchantress plays Confinement and THEN Moat. Play it the other way around and you will get machine gunned by Assault.

[Brehn]

You know, the correct order is first Karmic Justice then Confinement then Moat. Otherwise you get machine gunned by Reverent Silence. But if they draw Devastating Dreams it doesn't matter anyway.

[Jaiminho]

I think Tartell knows how to play Enchantress. At least, that's what it says in the ad.

[Volt]

I think Meathooks will bite the dust to Swan Thresh. :cry:

[Pinder]

I think Meathooks will bite the dust to Swan Thresh. :cry:

Yeah, and even if it wins it will likely bite it to Landstill in the next round (unless Faeries beats it, somehow).

I don't think our one-armed friends are making it too much farther.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

My predictions:

If Dragon Stompy doesn’t beat Tendrils, it probably doesn’t deserve to be a deck.
Burning Wish and Devastating Dreams knock out Enchantress.
The Faeries list isn’t running near enough Cliques to think about beating Landstill.
Pyroclasm in the board and 2x Counterbalance isn’t enough for Thresh to overcome Sliver’s creature advantage. And Swan bites it to StP.
Reanimator traditionally loses to combo decks that don’t have to enter the attack phase. And it’s not running near enough discard to make up the difference.
Dave’s terrible theme deck gets it’s ass handed to it by Berserk Stompy.
Wish-Still loses. It has no kill conditions. It doesn’t even have a Brain Freeze or something to Wish for.
Survival probably beats Pox, as long as it draws the namesake, or at least plays first.


Top 8:
Dragon Stompy wins the game where it gets Chalice at 2 and 3. Otherwise, bigger creatures win it for Aggro-Loam.
4-c Landstill Vs. Meathooks; Landstill has board clearing. Meathooks eats it hardcore.
Dave's terrible theme deck gets knocked around by the Spanish Inquisition, and then left in the gutter to die.
Survival rips apart Dreadstill's hand and plays recursive creatures to the win.

Quarterfinals;
4-C Landstill eats it to recurring Wasteland and Devastating Dreams. Chalk this one up for Aggro-Loam.
Dave's terrible theme deck is pummeled viciously by WGB Survival, left alone in a corner to sob incoherently and grapple with it's own scarring mental trauma.

Finals:
Dave's terrible theme deck has this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/10/) happened to it.


Winner:

Dave's terrible theme deck.


Although it should've been the Mighty Quinn, dammit.

[Jak]

You know, the correct order is first Karmic Justice then Confinement then Moat. Otherwise you get machine gunned by Reverent Silence. But if they draw Devastating Dreams it doesn't matter anyway.

I was talking about a time I was playing Giles and Ihad 4 mana open. I opted to play Moat instead of Confinement because I am retarded. First you get Sacred Ground so DD doesn't eat you, then Justice and Ground Seal. Confinement should then win the game.

[Tacosnape]

My remaining (and completely illogical and unfounded) predictions.

Pox vs. BGW Survival: Pox. Survival loses to manabase rape. Though if I'm wrong, BGW Survival wins the whole thing.

Dreadstill vs Wishstill: Since they can't both lose and picking Full English Breakfast isn't an actual option, I'm betting on whichever one Nihil pilots to win since Zach keeps losing lately.

ITF vs Berserk Stompy: Probably ITF, but God, aren't we all cheering for the annoying green deck deep down?

SI vs Reanimator: SI. Although if Reanimator T8's again in this format, a look needs to be taken.

FT vs Dragon Stompy: A storm combo deck that struggles against Chalice, Trinisphere, -and- Blood Moon? I pick my precious to roll.

RGB Loam vs Enchantress: Enchantress. Somehow. Zach prevails.

4C Landstill vs UB Faeries: UB Faeries could steal this one if Landstill gets too much global removal to deal with a deck full of threats that Mishra's Factory can't block. I'll go with it. Why not?

Meathooks vs. Swan & Moon Thresh: Swan and Moon.

Pox vs. Whichever Deck Nihil Piloted: Nom Nom Manabase. Pox Hungry.

ITF vs. SI: ITF.

Dragon Stompy vs. Enchantress: Ah, shit. My remaining hopes for a DS win go down in flames. Enchantress does to Dragon Stompy what a young hooker does to a cigarette--Smokes it and looks hot doing it.

UB Faeries vs. Swan & Moon Thresh: The inexplicable UB Faerie run ends once the person not piloting it bothers to read what all the Faeries do. Swan and Moon goes again.

Pox vs ITF: Nom Nom Manabase. Pox Hungry.

Enchantress vs. Swan & Moon Thresh: Swan & Moon Thresh's nifty counter suite keeps the craftyness at bay this time and does sexy combo shit. It prevails.

Pox vs. Swan & Moon Thresh: FEED THE POX. NOM NOM MABANABANASE. TASTY SWANS. Pox wins. Nihil and Zach decide to lie about the results so we don't have to hear the scrubs tout it as the greatest deck ever made. But much like Elvis faking his death and saving a retirement home from a Texas Mummy, the truth will become known. Pox wins. Fatality.

[Deep6er]

My predictions:

If Dragon Stompy doesn’t beat Tendrils, it probably doesn’t deserve to be a deck.
Burning Wish and Devastating Dreams knock out Enchantress.
The Faeries list isn’t running near enough Cliques to think about beating Landstill.
Pyroclasm in the board and 2x Counterbalance isn’t enough for Thresh to overcome Sliver’s creature advantage. And Swan bites it to StP.
Reanimator traditionally loses to combo decks that don’t have to enter the attack phase. And it’s not running near enough discard to make up the difference.
Dave’s terrible theme deck gets it’s ass handed to it by Berserk Stompy.
Wish-Still loses. It has no kill conditions. It doesn’t even have a Brain Freeze or something to Wish for.
Survival probably beats Pox, as long as it draws the namesake, or at least plays first.


Top 8:
Dragon Stompy wins the game where it gets Chalice at 2 and 3. Otherwise, bigger creatures win it for Aggro-Loam.
4-c Landstill Vs. Meathooks; Landstill has board clearing. Meathooks eats it hardcore.
Dave's terrible theme deck gets knocked around by the Spanish Inquisition, and then left in the gutter to die.
Survival rips apart Dreadstill's hand and plays recursive creatures to the win.

Quarterfinals;
4-C Landstill eats it to recurring Wasteland and Devastating Dreams. Chalk this one up for Aggro-Loam.
Dave's terrible theme deck is pummeled viciously by WGB Survival, left alone in a corner to sob incoherently and grapple with it's own scarring mental trauma.

Finals:
Dave's terrible theme deck has this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/10/) happened to it.


Winner:

Dave's terrible theme deck.


Although it should've been the Mighty Quinn, dammit.


Bwuh? I lose three times and still win? Go me!

Also, I take it you're not a big fan of It's the Fear. You should work on that.