[Article] Through a Blender

[Eldariel]

Article (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/16052.html), by Doug Linn.

Doug goes through a few wacky-looking decklists and mixing deck concepts and hybridizing strategies.

As a lover of oddball decks that finish well, I liked the decks presented in the article. The concepts aren't revolutionary, but often forgotten - I think the article does a fine job presenting them (it talks more about the decks than the concept, which is fine). I'm not sure if the presented decks are really made stronger by fitting multiple strategies instead of focusing on doing one thing really well; none of their alternative strategies really seem to cover any glaring holes in their straightforward approach. It does make shutting the whole deck down more difficult though.

Overall, I don't think the article gave me greater insight into deck construction, or really to how to pull off successful blends either, but it presented at least one interesting list I would've otherwise missed and was entertaining, so I think the article was worth reading. I just hope less versed players looking to learn about Legacy don't go around thinking decks like the "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" comprise the bulk of Legacy though...

[freakish777]

Clearly Tarpan is one of the missing 2 cards...

[Shugyosha]

Nice article. I think at least one of the decks will stick for a while. As of now it seems Imperial Painter is quite good, given the recent Top8 appearances. The usually worst matchup with combo is blue and this combo deck packs its hate main.


I don’t see casting the Wizard for a Pithing Needle to be an efficient play

Trinket Mage in Perfect Loam can fetch EE to get rid of aforementioned Counterbalance. With this deck you can easily play it for 3-4 even 6 mana set on 2. Also fetching Zuran Orb with it against aggro is pretty good and Furnace together with Academy Ruins will get rid of your opponent's Loams again and again, regardless of Wishes he might play.

[Brehn]

About The Perfect Loam:

The strategy hits a few walls; the two biggest problems in my mind are storm combo and Counterbalance.
Counterbalance seems to be seriously overrated O_o.

Let's check. It's a Lands.dec. How does it deal with Moon effects game 1? I see. It requires drawing Mox Diamond (4/60), a Forest/another Diamond (7/60) and Intuition/EE (4/60). No idea why Counterbalance should be a bigger problem. Counterbalance shuts down the broken engine, Moon effects shut down the deck.

[caiomarcos]

Very nice article! Maybe the best one I`ve read about legacy in a while.
It`s a bit more to regular Legacy players than trying to introduce the format with the same old decklists. I wish we had more of that more often! Congrats!

[Shugyosha]

No idea why Counterbalance should be a bigger problem. Counterbalance shuts down the broken engine, Moon effects shut down the deck.

Moon is the deck's nemesis but there are usually much more Balance and Combo decks in the legacy meta than Blood Moon decks.

If Moon doesn't hit the board during the first few turns it is very likely that you have some stuff needed to stay in the game. Ghostquarter can get you a Forest in response to the Moon and Riftstone Portal in your grave will at least give you enough mana to operate. Still Mox is the best asset to stay in game against Blood Moon. Trinket Mage can also fetch it. I don't say its easy but Moon shouldn't be a "I win" card when dropped in the mid game unless you are under pressure already or you played not careful enough.

[Fossil4182]

I think Imperial Painter has a lot of potential. I've seen a U/W version that runs some similar cards and uses Countertop as backup as opposed to the Red Blast. I would think by look at the deck list that a U/W version with Ponder and Brainstorm would have a better draw, however Imperial Recruiter and the Blood Moon effect is fairly nice to have. Either way I think Painter/Grindstone is one of the best non-storm combo win conditions out there, but that's just me.

WTF aka Whiskey Tango Foxtrot seems like a pretty cool rouge deck. The small part of me that is enslaved to some of the older rules of magic worries about the "Danger of Cool Things". However if the deck or one like it posts results like that over the course of the next few months, it would definitely be worth looking at.

I'd also just note that decks like Its the Fear and VoroshStill fill into this same catagory and seem to be really well like decks. I also think its nice because decks like this also require a little more skill to play. Having upper level decks that have high skill curves that aren't Storm based are nice to see. (I'm not saying that there is not decks out there like that now, just this makes more of them)

[Di]

It is awesome to see a Garden variant, albeit much different, mentioned in here. I'm glad to see people are still playing this deck.

And that Whiskey Foxtrot insanity is the coolest thing ever seen. How ironic is it that I was actually discussing the same exact thing with Bryant yesterday, except it didn't have the Salvagers combo in it.

[Isamaru]

I tested Imperial Painter tonight. It truly is a piece of jank. There are some really cute synergies in there, but overall its nothing that new, and it was positively horrible in testing.

Seriously people, do yourself a favor and don't go and buy those cards in real life. Play it on MWS for a while to see first.

[hi-val]

It is awesome to see a Garden variant, albeit much different, mentioned in here. I'm glad to see people are still playing this deck.

And that Whiskey Foxtrot insanity is the coolest thing ever seen. How ironic is it that I was actually discussing the same exact thing with Bryant yesterday, except it didn't have the Salvagers combo in it.

I feel like there are all sorts of other combos that can be crammed in, like Project X and stuff like that. I want to believe!

Glad you guys liked the article!

[Anusien]

Depending on your focus, you may not need Spellbomb/Orzhov Guildmage (just recur Brass Man through Survival to get all your creatures into play and either attack for the win or Grindstone out). Then again, Salvagers + LED + Explosive + Grindstone is a win without Painter's Servant. Keep that in mind. Then again, most of the time I find it's easier to set up Trinket + Painter's Servant through Survival rather than the other combo, suggesting maybe I ought to just focus on that.

Also, Aether Vial is so much better than Birds.

[Illissius]

I feel like there are all sorts of other combos that can be crammed in, like Project X and stuff like that. I want to believe!


Just in case you aren't already aware:

Saffi Eriksdotter + Caller of the Claw + Crypt Champion (+ Anger)

You Survival away the other two or three creatures to end up with the Champion, cast it, bring back Saffi, sacrifice it targetting the Champion, let it die and come back, bringing Saffi with it; repeat an hillion times; target Caller instead when you're satisfied.

This is my favorite Survival combo. It costs 7 mana total without Anger or 8 mana with once you have Survival out. (Painter/Grindstone is 11, as far as I can tell). The biggest problem with it is Mogg Fanatic.

EDIT - That Survival deck was crazy enough, but it just got one-upped (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17493).

[Eldariel]

Just in case you aren't already aware:

Saffi Eriksdotter + Caller of the Claw + Crypt Champion (+ Anger)

You Survival away the other two or three creatures to end up with the Champion, cast it, bring back Saffi, sacrifice it targetting the Champion, let it die and come back, bringing Saffi with it; repeat an hillion times; target Caller instead when you're satisfied.

Wouldn't Loyal Retainers/Saffi be more efficient in Legacy? I Will Survive used it and Retainers seems solid otherwise too, bringing back all sorts of huge Legends that ended up in the grave one way or another. Further, the whole combo costs 1 point less too, since Loyal Retainers are 5 mana only. And then there's the whole "both of the pieces are castable before going off"-part too.

[Nihil Credo]

Wouldn't Loyal Retainers/Saffi be more efficient in Legacy? I Will Survive used it and Retainers seems solid otherwise too, bringing back all sorts of huge Legends that ended up in the grave one way or another. Further, the whole combo costs 1 point less too, since Loyal Retainers are 5 mana only. And then there's the whole "both of the pieces are castable before going off"-part too.
Crypt Champion is also castable (and the kicker can be paid with Birds of Paradise) and can return a Goyf, Trinket Mage, Eternal Witness, or Painter's Servant as needed.

On the other side, Loyal Retainers will only return Saffi or, well, Squee - although it seems certainly possible to cram Recurring Nightmare and an Akroma in that list. Retainers dodge Mogg Fanatic, too.

[Isamaru]

That Survival deck is trying to do WAY too much... Running more than 1 combo in a deck is often very smart, but not running 4 that have almost nothing to do with eachother, with very little interaction other than Survival and Trinket Mage getting ...things.

It looks like someone threw 4 decks together, and then tried adding in Tarmogoyf, Stifle, Moat, and Deed hoping that would make it "good." Who needs their cards to work together? As long as all the cards are "good."

How often can that deck expect to draw the right thing at the right time? Opening hands with LED must be junky. The only real use outside of Salvagers is to respond to an activation of Survival that discarded your last creature card in hand, to be able to use Survival 3 more times for free. If you have a Survival of the Fittest out, you've already won. Why use it to fetch Trinket Mage to fetch LED to fetch Salvagers?

People criticize Vile Horror for having dead cards if you don't draw one or the other. Even if this were true, with Wacky Foxtrot Lulziness, each piece of each combo actually has this problem.

I just keep things pure in I Will Survive and go for 2 combos and 4-5 synergies. You don't need Recurring Nightmare... Akroma is Legendary (both are, in fact, but only the red one is worthwhile) so the Retainers become increasingly useful. I think Crypt Champion is a liability in too many ways. Black isn't really needed, GW can handle everything nicely in only the 2 colors.

[/rant]

[Illissius]

Wouldn't Loyal Retainers/Saffi be more efficient in Legacy? I Will Survive used it and Retainers seems solid otherwise too, bringing back all sorts of huge Legends that ended up in the grave one way or another. Further, the whole combo costs 1 point less too, since Loyal Retainers are 5 mana only. And then there's the whole "both of the pieces are castable before going off"-part too.

No. With Retainers you have to fetch all the combo pieces into your hand separately and cast them, as opposed to Crypt Champion where you Survival them into the graveyard and cast only the Champion. The Champion combo costs G + G + G + 3B and one creature card from your hand. The Retainers combo costs G + G + G + 2W + WG + 2G and three creature cards from your hand. (Add another G in either case for Anger).

(P.S. The 11 images restriction is annoying as hell when discussing mana costs.)

[Eldariel]

Point taken. I didn't realize you don't need to cast Saffi; although if Saffi is already in in numbers, I figure it may be cheaper the other way around, since it can already be in play by the time you go off.

[Isamaru]

Yes, and you do still have to cast Caller of the Claw, which is after you've already invested the Crypt Champion.

With the I Will Survive combo, you are only investing 1 card during each iteration of the combo instead of 2, so if you are disrupted at any point, its very easy to just survival for the piece the next turn.

Having to splash a 3rd color, and being trumped by Mogg Fanatic or any (even) killed hate-creatures like Wretch is what really makes me dislike Crypt Champion.

[freakish777]

Also, Aether Vial is so much better than Birds.

Pretty sure this is incorrect in Survival decks, as drawing one past turn 1 or 2 pitches to Survival instead of being mostly worthless. Additionally, Birds helps you cast and activate Survival on turn 2, filters your mana the turn you play it (with Anger in the bin), and helps you play non-creature spells.

[Illissius]

Yes, and you do still have to cast Caller of the Claw, which is after you've already invested the Crypt Champion.

No, you don't. After you've done the Champion-Saffi loop twenty trillion times, on the last iteration of the loop you don't target Saffi with the Champion, but instead you target Caller of the Claw.

I guess I better explain the combo in detail, because this is the second time I'm correcting someone:

1. :g:, Survival away Grey Ogre for Saffi Eriksdotter
2. :g:, Survival away Saffi Eriksdotter for Caller of the Claw
3. (optional) :g:, Survival away Caller of the Claw for Anger
4. :g:, Survival away Caller of the Claw (or Anger) for Crypt Champion
5. :3::b:, cast Crypt Champion [this is the last point where you pay mana]
6. Crypt Champion comes into play
7. Stack Crypt Champion's CIP abilities so that the reanimation effect resolves before the one requiring you to sacrifice the Champion
8a. With the reanimation ability, reanimate Saffi Eriksdotter
8b. With the reanimation ability, reanimate Caller of the Claw. GOTO 12.
9. Sacrifice Saffi Eriksdotter, targetting Crypt Champion
10. Now let Crypt Champion's other CIP ability resolve, sacrificing it
11. GOTO 6.
12. Caller of the Claw comes into play. You have many Bear tokens. Have fun.


With the I Will Survive combo, you are only investing 1 card during each iteration of the combo instead of 2, so if you are disrupted at any point, its very easy to just survival for the piece the next turn.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this (or rather, I'm sure that I don't). Care to elaborate?


Having to splash a 3rd color, and being trumped by Mogg Fanatic or any (even) killed hate-creatures like Wretch is what really makes me dislike Crypt Champion.

Most Survival decks already run black, and quite a few also splash red for Magus and sometimes Anger, so probably you would run the Champion combo in one of these. As for Mogg Fanatic, that is indeed very annoying, but at least all it takes is to Survival for a Faerie Macabre yourself to take care of the problem (unless they have three, which is unlikely). (And as far as I can tell, the Retainers version is also stopped by a live Fanatic or Wretch; but not by dead ones, that much is true.)

[Di]

Pretty sure this is incorrect in Survival decks, as drawing one past turn 1 or 2 pitches to Survival instead of being mostly worthless. Additionally, Birds helps you cast and activate Survival on turn 2, filters your mana the turn you play it (with Anger in the bin), and helps you play non-creature spells.

Quite true, although I could go on and on with what other advantages Birds has. Anusien spoke it like a true inexperienced Survival player.

[hi-val]

Quite true, although I could go on and on with what other advantages Birds has. Anusien spoke it like a true inexperienced Survival player.

I LOVE Vial in Survival decks that can use it. Which is to say, that curve out at a usual amount so you can just drop doods at 2 or 4. Vial is insaaaaane and is one of the best cards for a Survival deck, but the hard part is that your deck has to curve out at a specific point. Sliver Survival can do this at the moment, not a lot of other ones can because you want to curve at 2 for Tarms and stop.

[Isamaru]

No, you don't. After you've done the Champion-Saffi loop twenty trillion times, on the last iteration of the loop you don't target Saffi with the Champion, but instead you target Caller of the Claw.

I guess I better explain the combo in detail, because this is the second time I'm correcting someone
Elaborating wasn't necessary, I played Project X as it was aftewards called (long story), which is what your proposed combo is, only with Crypt Champion.

Gaining the life is a better win condition (Loaming Shaman afterwards) than bear tokens because of mass removal, abundant ETW hate, Pernicious Deed, etc. etc. The good news is that Caller of the Claw would help against those things (if you always left 2G/2G+G open) before combo-time, but after you go off once, if you don't have Anger for haste and they kill them in the turn you have to wait, then that doesn't matter anyway.

"Why not just go off again?' You might say. This leads me to what I was trying to explain before. With Crypt Champion, you have to invest 2 pieces again because you don't end with any in play. With I Will Survive, you only have to invest 1 piece if you are disrupted, because you end with 1 in play.

And lastly, if you can accomplish the same things with only 2 colors, I don't see why you should bother with more.

[Michael Keller]

And lastly, if you can accomplish the same things with only 2 colors, I don't see why you should bother with more.

See, I'm really a big advocate of this methodology. It's true, why dilute an already effective game-plan by adding another color? I can see sometimes and in rare instances there being an absolute necessary involvement with a third color as a splash for Brainstorm and the sort, but it seems like the deck is fine the way it is.