Giant Kithkin Soilders... big-little people with spears

[RogueBuild]

Let me give you the deck first, then how I came to put it together.

Land:

Plains 4
Mount. 4
Windswept Health 4
Flagstones 3
Plateau 4
Ancient Tomb 2


Creatures:
Goldmeadow Stalwart 4
Knight of Meadowguard 4
Wizened Cenn 3
Kinbaile Borderguard 2
Preeminent Captain 4
Thoughtwell Trio 3
Jotun Grunt 3
Sunhome Enforcer 2

Spells and Stuff:
SunForger 3
Sowrds to Plow. 4
Magma Jet 3
Lightning Helix 3
Disenchant 1

SB (and this has changed after almost every game):
Jotun Grunt 1
Burrenton Forge-Tender 2
Retaliate 2
Test of Faith 2
Gilded Light 1
Sulfurous Blast 1
Boil 1
Tempest of Light 1
Shattering Spree 1
Orim's Chant 1
Sirocco 1


When Rav Block came out I found Sunhome Enforcer and Sunforger and was looking for a way to abuse them. Sunforger I was happy to get to abuse with a Junktroller and a Lightning Helix in my first draft.
I brainstormed a few ideas of red/white decks but nothing ever got built.

2 days ago I was reading the lists of cards from the last few sets. I havent played paper magic in over a year so I missed everything after Lorwyn and I came across a card Preeminent Captain. I had also seen a number of Kithkin cards that worked with giants (none of which made the deck). The Captain allowed for a really cool, Goblin Lackey-esk type feel, but it needed to be Soldiers.
It turns out Sunhome Enforcer and Jotun Grunt are Sodiers. Add in some more little men with spears, some removal, and SunForger (I so want to abuse this card) and I have a deck.

I have only played about 15 (mostly 2/3) matches with this deck so far. My record is 9-6 (a few times people dropped after game one). I dont think I have gone more than 2 matches without changing something in the deck and/or the SB. And for the first 3 or 4 matches I didnt have a SB at all.

Things that I am debating:

Focus on the Kithkins or Soldiers? (right now it is Kithkins)
My only 1-drop creature requires that I play a lot of Kithkins or risk not being able to play it on turn 1, but in doing so I am ignoring some soldiers I would like to play. I cant really focus on the soldiers because I can not find a 1 drop I would play over Goldmeadow Stalwart.

If I go more for the soldiers do I switch the Wizened Cenns for Field Marshal?

Knights of M. are not soldiers but have been working out great for me. This also makes it hard to go more towards the soldier theme as I dont know what i would replace them with. Borusswitfblade? Not a bad card to use with Sunforger.

This deck has no card draw.
My hope to to be able to abuse the Sunforger to find answers and, to a less extent, Jotun Grunt to keep my library full of instants to find. Magma Jet's Scry has been usefull so far, but it is still not draw. I have thought about using Mask of memory but none of my creatures have any evasion. There is the soldier GemPlam and Surge of Thoughtweft, both give +1/+1 and draw a card, but seem bad to me. And Tithe, which would give me another 1-drop and could get me 2 lands, but just land.

The sideboard:
Is designed to be used with the Sunforger. Other then 3 creatures, it is all instants than I can tutor for. It is rare I would need to SB more than 2 or 3 cards. I just dont know if there was something I should have included and didnt think of.


A few match-up details.

I am 1-1 against combo. I do not expect to have a strong match against combo even post board, but I won 2-1 against Belcher tonight. At the end of G3 I was holding Gilded Light and Orim's Chant in hand and had Sunforger equiped and ready to seek out another answer is I needed it.

I have had a few Threst matches. I seem to have a decent match up there. If the Captain hits on turn 2 or 3 it goes bad quickly with a Grunt or other big soilder coming next turn.
I had a guy drop the moment cast in a Thoughtweft Trio and used it to block a pair of 3/3 mongeese. I can imagine him pissed off that I was playing "crap".

Anyway, I havent played enough game with any one build yet, but I do think this build will last at lest a few days before I start tweaking it again.

Feedback and ideas are welcome.

[MGC_player]

I'd recommend you go to the Kithkin White Weenie thread for a few ideas. You can actually blend the Soldier and Kithkin theme pretty well and essentially make it monowhite which can help a lot in reducing monetary costs and making you more resistant to wasteland. Also no Thorn of Amethyst or Pithing Needle in SB? Those can seriously help your combo and some of your other matchups. I personally think the Trio is too slow and I don't even use them in my Type 2 Kithkin deck, much less in Legacy. Enlistment Officer can be good since it refills your hand with more soldiers, and most kithkin are soldiers. I ended up cutting the Knights of Meadowgrain from my list to improve my consistency, but I miss having them when I am facing burn.

[RogueBuild]

Enlistment Officer, cool! A RingLeader for Soldiers, but that does present a problem. If I use him I would likely drop the Knights of Meadowgrain, and likely the Wizened Cenn (maybe to put in Field Marshal), but my Kithkin count is dropping and I no longer will consistantly be able to drop my turn-1 Goldmeadow Stalwart.
The only other issue is he cost 4. i could cheat him into play with the Captain, but unless I GoblinVial-ized this deck odds are I would only pick up 1 or 2 cards with him. I will have to add it to the list of ideas to try out.

Thoughtweft Trio, I dont find them slow as much as I find I have a problem against decks with a lot of removal. I need to keep a Kithkin alive to Champ. with it. It has not been a big problem, but it has happen a few times. The big arguement for keeping it in is not ony it's size, but the sweeper protection.

[MGC_player]

It all depends on where you want to take the deck. The deck I run now is Kithkin/Soldiers. There are several good Kithkin that are also soldiers so you can blend this pretty well. The current list I have actually functions really well with only 20 land and the Enlistment Officer is at the top of the curve along with Armageddon/Cataclysm.

In my list, the Cenns were kept since only the Enlistment Officers are the only non Kithkin creatures in the deck. You can also run Veteran's Armaments since those are considered Soldiers and they can autoequip on soldiers converting them to a pseudo pile-driver that works on offense and defense. Soldier cards essentially make up half the deck so its not too much of a problem using the Officer. I ended up cutting Knight of Meadow grain since I essentially focused on Soldiers. I have 8 three drops in my list, 3 Kisbaile Borderguard, 3 Preeminent Captain, and 2 Mirror Entity. That particular distribution has been working well for me so far. The hardest thing for me so far has been determining my mana base which seems pretty retarded considering my deck is monowhite.

More detail on these ideas can be found page 2 of the Kithkin White Weenie thread.

[RogueBuild]

I think I have stumbled into a balance of the ideas I was mixing and playing with. I have been winning a lot more games then I expect to and love people reactions when they lose to Kithkins in Legacy. Here is the current list.

Land:
Plains 4
Mount. 3
Windswept Health 4
Flagstones 3
Plateau 4
Ancient Tomb 3

Creatures:
Goldmeadow Stalwart 4
Knight of Meadowguard 4
Soltari Champions 4 (replaced Wizened Cen)
Kinbaile Borderguard 1
Preeminent Captain 4
Thoughtwefl Trio 2
Jotun Grunt 3
Taurean Mauler 2 (replaced Sunhome Enforcer)

Spells and Stuff:
SunForger 3
Mask of Memory 3
Veteran's Armaments 2
Swords to Plow. 4
Lightning Helix 2
Disenchant 1

SB (has changed a lot):
Jotun Grunt 1
Disenchant 1
Retaliate 1
Test of Faith 2
Gilded Light 2
Sulfurous Blast 2
Tempest of Light 1
Shattering Spree 1
Orim's Chant 2
Sirocco 1
Price of Progress 1


Other than my 2 Thoughtwefl Trio and a few SB cards my mana curve now stops at 3. Cutting my mana cost is one of the reasons I swaped Sunhome Enforcer for Taurean Mauler. This frees up mana for Sunforger activactions.
5 mana is expensive, but if I keep playing creatures for free with the Captain I can use the hammer to search for and cast every other card in my deck.
Soltari Champ has become a huge factor. He plays for free with the Captain, pumps my attackes, and has shadow allowing for me to hit with Mask of Memory (and other equipment). This is by far the best card draw solution I have tried. The mask has alos allowed for earlier play and longer lasting Jotun Grunts.

I still am uncertain with the SB. I really would like some form of an instant speed 4-cc 'Gedon, after all I have 2 differnt suedo-Wraths. Is a 'Gedon to much to ask for?

[matamagos]

what about wake thrasher?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74555&d=1215059107

it seems really powerful with a good mana curve. It remembers me miracle grow.
however, does this card justify the inclusion of blue in a legacy soldiers deck? I think there is no other blue card who could fit in the deck, only this one.

[RogueBuild]

This deck has been great fun to play and has been amazingly consistant. Combo and Burn have been my only really bad MUs. Burn is largely why I replaced the Masks of memory with SoFI. I dont like that they cost more to use, but it has not been a huge issue. I was really hoping for a Pro-Red Kithkin and/or Soldier (other than the 1/1 that already exists) in the new set. No such luck.


Land:
Plains 4
Mount. 3
Windswept Health 4
Flagstones 3
Plateau 4
Ancient Tomb 3

Creatures:
Goldmeadow Stalwart 4
Knight of Meadowguard 4
Soltari Champions 4
Kinbaile Borderguard 3 (cut the Taurean Maulers for 2 more here)
Preeminent Captain 4
Thoughtwefl Trio 2
Jotun Grunt 3


Spells and Stuff:
SunForger 3
Soword of Fire and Ice 3 (replacing Mask of Memory 3)
Veteran's Armaments 2
Swords to Plow. 4
Lightning Helix 2
Disenchant 1

SB (has changed a lot):
Jotun Grunt 1
Disenchant 2
Retaliate 1
Test of Faith 2
Gilded Light 4
Sulfurous Blast 1
Tempest of Light 1
Rack and Ruin 1 (replaced Shattering Spree when I realized Spree isnt an instant)
Sirocco 1
Price of Progress 1

Thresh has not been much of a problem as most of my creatures have first-strike and/or are bigger than 3/3.

Goblins can go either way. If I get a turn-1 Stalwart followed by a turn-2 anything it often means gg as no one but me runs straight burn in goblins in large enough numbers to kill 2 2/2s on turn 2 or 3. Certainly not when some have first strike. Now, if i had to play against my own Goblin deck I dont know how that would go.

LandStill of various forms and other heavy counter decks:
I can play around Daze easy enough and Captains cost 3 so I have a good shot at making it past CounterBalance. That only leaves CounterSpell and FoW. If Captain hits the table it might as well be a vial and the creatures start pouring out... With haste...

Random PoP for the win! or Sirocco to empty a hand of counters and card draw has left many people unhappy with my "random jank".

Anyway, it has been great fun and has worked a lot better from the begining than many of my other pet decks have. Now if only there was a T1.5 enviorment in town to try out out when it matters... but I would like to do that with a few decks...

If anyone remembers a Pro-Red soldier from some other set let me know but I don't think there is one.