The Grapes of Wrath

[Goaswerfraiejen]

No doubt we've all attempted to use Eladamri's Vineyard to our own advantage at one point in time, whether it be in Aluren, Trinity Green, Eureka, or Oath decks of old. I even once saw an attempt at using it to fuel Stax here on The Source, although I'm not sure what became of that.

Today's cardpool, however, is much larger, and indeed much more Vineyard-friendly. As a consequence, I wonder if a strictly aggro-oriented deck could not make acceptable use of eight Vineyards. Granted, a number of decks currently run green for Goyf--but can they sink enough mana not to burn? The format is also full of decks running Tops and Factories, making it a little tougher to get the mana burn going permanently. Can using Vineyard acceleration prove to be a viable strategy in the format? Let's see.


Here's what I've got kicking around at the moment:

15x Forest
4x Wooded Foothills

4x Eladamri's Vineyard
4x Magus of the Vineyard

4x Mire Boa
4x River Boa
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Troll Ascetic
4x Killer Bees
4x Chameleon Colossus
2x Krakilin

4x Sword of Fire and Ice
3x Umezawa's Jitte


Sideboard:

4x Sandstorm
4x Krosan Grip
4x Wheel of Sun and Moon
3x Thorn of Amethyst



As you can see, going mono-green severely limits sideboarding options--and I haven't a clue how not to roll over to hyper-accelerated combo decks. Perhaps we could attempt a Stax transformational sideboard? Leaving that aside for the moment, however, what I like about the main deck is its impregnable manabase, resilient creatures, and the possibility of ridiculous early plays (turn two Colossus, for example, or swinging for ten or more with Killer Bees in the early game).

I've been kicking the deck around on MWS for about two days now, and I'm actually impressed with its performance--it performs significantly better against the format's established decks than I'd anticipated. Granted, my expectations were pretty low, but I've been surprised at how long people take to find outlets for the extra mana, and that's been a huge boon. Hell, I managed to successfully race burn and Ichorid a number of times, which was a bit of a shocker (granted, Ichorid had the misfortune of facing down a turn two Colossus and not hitting Narcomoebas for a few games).

So, how can we improve this pile? It certainly has some glaring weaknesses, but it's very fun to pilot and relatively cheap to build. C'mon, you guys know you've always wanted to win with jank! :tongue:

[Isamaru]

I like the initial idea, but I don't think Krakilin and Troll Ascetic really do much. 8 Boas are probably too many. And try 2x Treetop Village.

Other than that, I think a lot more MagicCards.info searching is required... I could just suggest things that serve a similar purpose to Chameleon Colossus like Silvos, but I want there to be more to this... there has to be something interesting you can do with lots of green mana than play creatures and equipment.

If you are going to stick with this approach, include 4x Heartwood Storyteller.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is fueling Survival with it, but that takes this in a boring direction.

[Jak]

I like the initial idea, but I don't think Krakilin and Troll Ascetic really do much. 8 Boas are probably too many. And try 2x Treetop Village.

Other than that, I think a lot more MagicCards.info searching is required... I could just suggest things that serve a similar purpose to Chameleon Colossus like Silvos, but I want there to be more to this... there has to be something interesting you can do with lots of green mana than play creatures and equipment.

If you are going to stick with this approach, include 4x Heartwood Storyteller.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is fueling Survival with it, but that takes this in a boring direction.

Agreed with everything.

I really think there has to be something better than using the mana to play weenies.

[Hightower]

Cool deck m8, didn't get to say that before you quit.. =P

[herbig]

I don't know... Like, if I were playing Painter, with Recruiters and such, I'd absolutely love that 2 mana each turn.. Elves might just be a better option.

[Maveric78f]

Cool idea. I love how you scoop to combo.

Then, the criticism :
- Don't try to improve the MU with SB, it's useless. Own up to your choices.
- Krakilin is awful.
- Unyaro Bees are better than Killing Bees, but that may be not enough.
- Why are your playing fetches? Just for the pleasure to make your opponent's stifle worth? Or simply to lose some life.

I will start playtesting with something like this:
15x Forest
4x Treetop Village

4x Eladamri's Vineyard
4x Magus of the Vineyard

4x Mire Boa
4x River Boa
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Troll Ascetic
4x Heartwood Storyteller
4x Chameleon Colossus
2x Silvos, Rogue Elemental

4x Sword of Fire and Ice
3x Umezawa's Jitte


Sideboard:

4x Tsunami or Hail Storm
4x Krosan Grip
3x Wheel of Sun and Moon
4x Tormod's crypt

[raharu]

Martha's Vineyard :laugh:.

Also, why not get you some Masticore? Yes, the discard would be rather annoying, but it's an excellent mana dump and beats pretty hard.

[Jak]

Tooth and Nail?

[Bruticus]

Goaswerfraiejen, you should check out my deck-in-progress, Land Assault. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=233495) It uses vineyards and land acceleration to play huge trampling fatties.

[Shion]

I've experimented with this type of deck. I said, screw the curve, you don't need creatures under 3CC. They are generally weak and loose to counterbalance.

I also decided to go balls to the wall agro with a spash of red for maindeck disruption, in the form of Magus of the Moon's, since your getting most of your green from your vineyards anyway, and Additional killing power with Fling.

This is an old list, and one I had whipped up in about 20 min, and then shelved until now, so it's not very refined. There are probably plenty of better choices, but I thought I'd throw this out here. Heck I Think Chameleon Colossus could Replace Iwamori now.

Land:
6x Forest
4x Mountain
4x Taiga
4x wooded foothills

Creatures:
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Magus of the Vineyard
4x Troll Ascetic
4x Giant Solifuge
4x Groundbreaker
2x Iwamori of the Open Fist
2x Rumbling Slum

Other:
3x Fling
3x Berserk
4x Harmonize
4x Lotus Petal
4x Eladamri's Vineyard

Sideboard:
4x Bloodmoon
?x Krosan Grip

[Shtriga]

thorn of amethyst and sphere of resistance would improve your combo matchup, and the drawback isn't really relevant to you

[Maveric78f]

Thorn or Sphere are awful because you can't win the combo MU and because the deck can win on the behalf of the mana burn of your opponent. Don't waste this opportunity.

The deck clearly needs a way to get rid of LftL, mishras, etc...

[Willoe]

The Chroma beater might be a possibility. GGGGGG ensures that it's always a 6/6 trampler, and your deck has absolutely no ways of mana screwing yourself. Imagine, with, say 2 vineyards in play, it's already an 8/8 with trample. I really think it could do. If you tune the deck in this direction, Phosporescent Feast is just pure shit, but with Harmonize, you might could net yourself up to 20 life. Rushwood Elemental could also do, even though it's a bit too slow in this goyfed meta. But still, I think that this is way too casual :/ Cloudthresher could win random games against Skies, kill some dudes from Dragon Stompy and so on.

Generally, the more G's the creatures have in their cost, the more efficient they are (often, this isn't true for Werebear and Tarmogoyf)

Here are some suggestions:
Weatherseed Treefolk
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Rushwood Elemental
Cloudthresher
Kodama of the North Tree

Hmm, here's a sketchual decklist:

18 Forest
4 Treetop Village

4 Magus of the Vineyard
4 Eladamri's Vineyard

3 Weatherseed Treefolk
4 Primalcrux (chroma beater)
2 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
2 Kodama of the North Tree
4 Heartwood Storyteller
3 Rushwood Elemental
4 Chameleon Colossus

4 Harmonize
4 Tangle Wire

EDIT: Forgot to explain the exclusions of equipment. I think it will perform as good, because the creatures are very large on their own. All creatures, except for Heartwood Storyteller will battle a goyf. And since no cards except sorcery are put into the graveyard in this deck, does the goyf still has to be run? I don't like it in this deck, seriously. But who can tell?

This deck can via. a turn 1 vineyard fuel out 24 different cards, 8 of them which must be aided by another land drop (I think that you can figure them out). Say we drop another vineyard and take 1 mana burn, the rest of the deck can be played by turn 3. A turn 3 Primalcrux followed by another will result in two 14/14's and therefore often killing the at turn 5. That's pretty fast for a vineyard deck.

I play Tangle Wire because of we can mana screw and mana burn any opponent not playing green. True, we cannot tap our own enchantments, but we can stack the ability so that we only have to tap 3, you know.

What do you think about this approach? I see great potential in Primalcrux, when fueled out early.

[rufus]

Thorn or Sphere are awful because you can't win the combo MU and because the deck can win on the behalf of the mana burn of your opponent. Don't waste this opportunity.

The deck clearly needs a way to get rid of LftL, mishras, etc...

I wonder if Arcane Laborartory/Rule of Law/Mana Maze could make something like that work... I guess three colors with Gaddock Teeg and Meddling Mage for fun.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Ummm...Elephant Grass? Root Maze? Chord of Calling? I disagree with the last poster about Thorn/Sphere. Being a storm player, 1 thorn can make things a bit harder, buys a little time, a second one is like Trinisphering, only now it's harder to handle as it's 2 cards instead of one. It makes Infernal Tutor a Diabolic Tutor only worse, Dark Rit is nullified and an unthreshed cabal rit is actually losing mana. Mystical Tutor is damn near unplayable and too slow when it costs 2 more, and if you aren't playing the Top version of FT, you may just be fucked. It's my opinion that you shouldn't run them maindeck, but in the board. When you see combo, drop out the Vineyards for the Thorns and Spheres.

You could splash black for deed and Putrefy for a removal suite, all you need are Bayous. You already have teh nutz on regeneration. Plus, even though it wipes out your vineyards, the idea would be to use deed only in case of emergency OR for the final push to victory, regenerating ftw.

I'm not sure this is wise, however. Playing a turn 1 Vineyard against thresh will result in an inevitable turn 1 goyf plus their land drop for a brainstorm/Swords/Bolt and a possible daze during your next turn, or a Goose. This seems BAD. If they don't have goyf, you can bet it'll get countered/swords'ed/bolted (Magus at least) before you get to use the GG for the first time. When you get screwed out of your Vineyards, your tempo goes to shit. 19 lands isn't horrible, but it's not going to be the same. Hmm. I wonder how well 8Spheres would work against Thresh. The theory behind Thresh and combo are pretty much the same, just with different win conditions; it could work...

If you haven't seen it, there's Fable of Wolf and Owl from Eventide. It makes wolf tokens for you every time you play a green spell. Also, it's got GGG in the casting cost, making it suitable for the Chroma-beater...I realize 6cc is rediculous and not in any way actually relevant to the list, but I thought I'd mention it...

I really like the Cloudthresher, but it seems like a SB inclusion, not MD material...

I've always liked silvos, such a badass.

Anyway, thought I'd mention the few things I saw.

[Blade]

One more thing is that you will probably need your own mana sink, even if its just a Top. Staff of Domination could be good, but its more of a control-ish card. Still Life gives you the option of a 4/3 beater every turn, and of course any regenerator works.

[dude 666]

You could probably afford to play that new Eventide card in here- Talara's Battalion; with all the green mana you produce you could reliably drop it turn 2 or 3.

Treetop village should definetely be played, its a great mana sink; Mishra's Factory could be good too.

Maybe sensei's divining top as both a mana sink and fatty-finder?

I like the equipment alot in Maveric's list- it reminds me of stompy decks, except instead of taking damage from your own lands, you give the opponent the opportunity to use :g::g:.