R/B/G Handyman.Dec (Painter variant)

[Dosan_the_Wisest_Leaf]

R/B/G Handyman.Dec
The deck is called what it is because of Painter, Welder, Gardener (cutter, reaper) and also Grinder being a variety of tasks. Just like the name this deck can do many different things to win games. In the short time people have been making Painter Decks they have been largely dependant on having Painter’s Servant in play but with limited ways to get it. Handyman.Dec has a multitude of ways to get and is not solely relying on having a Painter’s Servant in play. Handyman.Dec can win via beatdown and non reliant Painter Mill, thus it already has an edge over its counterparts.

So without further ado, here is the first version of R/B/G Handyman.Dec:

2 Wasteland
3 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
3 Taiga

4 Painter’s Servant
4 Goblin Welder
4 Tarmogyf
4 Ichorid
4 Dark Confidant
2 Nantuko Blightcutter

3 Mesmeric Orb
2 Compost
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Gamble
4 Reap
2 Grindstone
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle

SIDEBOARD
4 Pyroblast
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Blood Moon
4 ???

[Maveric78f]

Can you explain? I really don't see the logic of the deck.

And what's your problem with black decks? (I know you play painter, but painter will be in another galaxy before you could take advantage of anything)

What is orb for?

[Dosan_the_Wisest_Leaf]

Can you explain? I really don't see the logic of the deck.

And what's your problem with black decks? (I know you play painter, but painter will be in another galaxy before you could take advantage of anything)

What is orb for?

OK the deck revolves largely around Mesmeric Orb to stumble across cards on a larger scheme than the previous painter decks. With Cards like Goblin Tinkerer and Reap it is very easy to find Painter's Servant and the other cards help to deal with a larger variety of decks than the current Painter builds.

Also Compost + Mesmeric Orb means massive CA. Card Advantage is always good ;)

The deck doesnt target black because I am having problems with it, black just seems a more logical and effective method to utilise cards that work with Painter's Servant. It is similar to why the Imperial Painter decks use + 4 Pyroblast and + 4 Red Elemental Blast. They are largely useless against non - bluedecks. However this deck rectifys the problem of being rendered obsolete against non relevant coloured decks as it has (A) more ways to get the cards that win/control the game, (B) can deal with more decks with versatile 1 offs that can be reached via tutor/Tinkerer/Compost and (C)has more proven and effective win conditions.

*Edit*
Mesmeric Orb allows Ichorid to be easily put into the GY, boosts your Tarmogoyf up and make sure all of the artifacts reach play more often. I know it might look strange as it is practically never used but trust me on this, it is a God Send.

[Dosan_the_Wisest_Leaf]

And what's your problem with black decks? (I know you play painter, but painter will be in another galaxy before you could take advantage of anything)



And what do you mean by that?!? Painter is easy to get in play in this deck. There is plenty of ways to search for it as well so in this case I think you have lost me LOL ;).

Ask away though, I am more than happy to answer questions.

[diffy]

What is orb for?


Mesmeric Orb + Compost + Painter's Servant set on black = pretty cool card advantage engine.
Mesmeric Orb also mills your deck which 'comboes' with both Goblin Welder and Reap (to get Grindstone/Servant).

Other than that I think the deck tries to do too many things at once which results in too many things being too 'cute'. It is also rather affixed on having Painter's Servant out because without him too many cards in the deck suddenly drop to a rather low power level (Ichorid + Compost + Reap + Nantuko Blightcutter = 12 cards) which is not a good thing as the Painter is very vulnerable and even more so because you have no protection. If you compare this to the usual Painter/Fish hybrid which has 4-8 semi-dead cards (Red Blasts) if it doesn't have Painter out and 8+ means to protect painter (Counterbalance, Force of Will or even aforementioned Red Blast), you can see a clear difference especially since the Blasts can actually still do something as Blue is more widely played than Black.

As for constructive criticism:
I don't think the Ichorids are at their best in here - you need to have an Mesmeric Orb and a Painter's Servant on-line for them to do something because otherwise you have too few means of getting them into your graveyard (you really don't want to Gamble/Grindstone for an Ichorid) and too few black creatures (4 + 4 Ichorids) to get them back afterwards.
Crucible of Worlds is not needed in here either, at least in my opinion: you're rarely going to Enlightened Tutor for it because there are always going to be better targets (either the missing combo piece [Painter/Stone], a Mesmeric Orb or a solution [Needle, Explosives, Deed]). Also, when you do have it out there are only minimal (and rather underpowered) applications for it too - Wasteland is basically the only thing you have that you want to recur with it which simply is not worth it. If you want to keep the land recursion theme, I'd go with a single Life from the Loam (good with Gamble) accompanied by a Volrath's Stronghold - this prevents you from decking if this should ever be an issue, fixes your mana as early as turn 2 by getting back Fetchlands and gives you another way to further abuse Mesmeric Orb to get your combo going (if you mill a significant proportion of the deck you should hit both Loam and Stronghold to get you Welder and Painter).
You probably need more artefacts for Goblin Welder to weld out - good options are Sensei's Divining Top (additional dig for combo pieces) and artefact lands (Tree of Tales, Great Furnace and Vault of Whispers in your case). Another rather easy change is to cut a Pernicious Deed (keeping one for Enlightened Tutor) for an Engineered Explosives which is often as good or even better than the Deed as well as an artefact for Welder.
As for protection, you could go with Cabal Therapy (synergy with the Orb) and Thoughtseize (generally strong).

[Dosan_the_Wisest_Leaf]

Mesmeric Orb + Compost + Painter's Servant set on black = pretty cool card advantage engine.
Mesmeric Orb also mills your deck which 'comboes' with both Goblin Welder and Reap (to get Grindstone/Servant).

Other than that I think the deck tries to do too many things at once which results in too many things being too 'cute'. It is also rather affixed on having Painter's Servant out because without him too many cards in the deck suddenly drop to a rather low power level (Ichorid, Compost, Reap, Nantuko Blightcutter) which is not a good thing as the Painter is very vulnerable and even more so because you have no protection. If you compare this to the usual Painter/Fish hybrid which has 4-8 semi-dead cards (Red Blasts) if it doesn't have Painter out and 8+ means to protect painter (Counterbalance, Force of Will or even aforementioned Red Blast), you can see a clear difference especially since the Blasts can actually still do something as Blue is more widely played than Black.

As for constructive criticism:
I don't think the Ichorids are at their best in here - you need to have an Mesmeric Orb and a Painter's Servant on-line for them to do something because otherwise you have too few means of getting them into your graveyard (you really don't want to Gamble/Grindstone for an Ichorid) and too few black creatures (4 + 4 Ichorids) to get them back afterwards.
Crucible of Worlds is not needed in here either, at least in my opinion: you're rarely going to Enlightened Tutor for it because there are always going to be better targets (either the missing combo piece [Painter/Stone], a Mesmeric Orb or a solution [Needle, Explosives, Deed]). Also, when you do have it out there are only minimal (and rather underpowered) applications for it too - Wasteland is basically the only thing you have that you want to recur with it which simply is not worth it. If you want to keep the land recursion theme, I'd go with a single Life from the Loam (good with Gamble) accompanied by a Volrath's Stronghold - this prevents you from decking if this should ever be an issue, fixes your mana as early as turn 2 by getting back Fetchlands and gives you another way to further abuse Mesmeric Orb to get your combo going (if you mill a significant proportion of the deck you should hit both Loam and Stronghold to get you Welder and Painter).
You probably need more artefacts for Goblin Welder to weld out - good options are Sensei's Divining Top (additional dig for combo pieces) and artefact lands (Tree of Tales, Great Furnace and Vault of Whispers in your case). Another rather easy change is to cut a Pernicious Deed (keeping one for Enlightened Tutor) for an Engineered Explosives which is often as good or even better than the Deed as well as an artefact for Welder.
As for protection, you could go with Cabal Therapy (synergy with the Orb) and Thoughtseize (generally strong).

Really appreciate the feedback - its good stuff. Yeah I know about Ichorid needing to go, he was only in there until I could find something better tbh. Alos it and BoB have been a pain in the bum sometimes. I have CoW's, in the deck with the fetchlands and Wastelands but I guess it is also not essential to how the deck works. However, it does provide a handy option vs control and Thresh so maybe i will throw it in the sideboard. But what do I remove for the SDT and more importantly what do they add to my deck. Maybe Chrome Mox should get that place though, or maybe Chromatic Star? I'll definately make adjustments as initial build is rather rough in retrospect.

+2 Engineered Explosives
-2 Perniscious Deed

Other changes to come soon.

However can anybody think of any creatures to go in here. I was thinking maybe anurid Brushhopper but on second thoughts maybe not?!? The deck has a fair chunk of offense...so discussion is needed.

*Edit* Just been thinking (thats often a bad thing roffle) but Cabal Therapy is an absolute gun in this deck. But what to replace so I can include it. Also consideringh a 1 off of Jitte? I know it might seem as if im trying to do to many things but this baby is rather versatile. Watcha think guys?

[Dosan_the_Wisest_Leaf]

+2 Engineered Plague and +1 Silent Arbiter to SB

[diffy]

But what do I remove for the SDT and more importantly what do they add to my deck.


Basically Sensei's Divining Top is just another means to find your combo pieces - he has good synergies with Fetchlands, Life from the Loam's Dredge 3 and, to a lesser extent, Mesmeric Orb.



Maybe Chrome Mox should get that place though, or maybe Chromatic Star?


Chrome Mox and Chromatic Star don't seem too good to me: you aren't really mana or colour hungry in any way and you don't really have enough means to create Card Advantage or Card Quality to really support any of them.



I'll definitely make adjustments as initial build is rather rough in retrospect.


This is what I'd suggest doing first before any other changes:

-4 Ichorid
-3 Reap
-1 Pithing Needle
-1 Pernicious Deed
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Wasteland
+1 Volrath's Stronghold
+1 Life from the Loam
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Eternal Witness
+2 Sensei's Divining Top
+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Cabal Therapy

Needle gets the axe because it is redundant with Explosive/Deed if you aim for a combo finish - there are just not enough things you want to turn off with it that can't be handled by your other removal to warrant a slot.
Wasteland gets cut down to 1 copy because it isn't a fundamental part of your strategy at all and because via Gamble and Life from the Loam you still have good access to it if the need for it arises.
Reap can also be cut down to a number similar to the amount of Composts you play: it's just another card that's dead when you don't have Painter's Servant out and even then it's still conditional (you need Mesmeric Orb active for it to be good). An Eternal Witness gets added instead of the Reaps because she has often a similar effect than Reap but isn't dead on her own - Reap most of the time will get you milled combo pieces back; if Witness happens to get milled you can always go for Life from the Loam -> Volrath's Stronghold and recur her.

Also, why does the list play 65 cards? Decking with Mesmeric Orb is not an issue at all as if you mill your entire deck you can't really loose as you have all the tools to get your combo on-line.
Playing more than 60 cards really reduces your consistency - you shouldn't be doing it.
Also, note the lack of white producing sources to cast Enlightened Tutor.

But really, to be honest, I don't think that the deck can be much more than a nice fun deck - you just need too many (vulnerable) pieces for it to function.



However can anybody think of any creatures to go in here. I was thinking maybe Anurid Brushhopper but on second thoughts maybe not?!? The deck has a fair chunk of offence...so discussion is needed.


Anurid Brushhopper doesn't seem that great to me: you don't have much means to create Card Advantage to support his ability so that basically he's reduced to being a 3 mana 3 power beater which is on the bottom end of the power level scale if compared to the rest of the creatures in the metagame.
What about Nimble Mongoose though? It is very cost efficient and getting Threshold shouldn't be hard with Mesmeric Orb.

[Dosan_the_Wisest_Leaf]

Basically Sensei's Divining Top is just another means to find your combo pieces - he has good synergies with Fetchlands, Life from the Loam's Dredge 3 and, to a lesser extent, Mesmeric Orb.



Chrome Mox and Chromatic Star don't seem too good to me: you aren't really mana or colour hungry in any way and you don't really have enough means to create Card Advantage or Card Quality to really support any of them.



This is what I'd suggest doing first before any other changes:

-4 Ichorid
-3 Reap
-1 Pithing Needle
-1 Pernicious Deed
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Wasteland
+1 Volrath's Stronghold
+1 Life from the Loam
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Eternal Witness
+2 Sensei's Divining Top
+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Cabal Therapy

Needle gets the axe because it is redundant with Explosive/Deed if you aim for a combo finish - there are just not enough things you want to turn off with it that can't be handled by your other removal to warrant a slot.
Wasteland gets cut down to 1 copy because it isn't a fundamental part of your strategy at all and because via Gamble and Life from the Loam you still have good access to it if the need for it arises.
Reap can also be cut down to a number similar to the amount of Composts you play: it's just another card that's dead when you don't have Painter's Servant out and even then it's still conditional (you need Mesmeric Orb active for it to be good). An Eternal Witness gets added instead of the Reaps because she has often a similar effect than Reap but isn't dead on her own - Reap most of the time will get you milled combo pieces back; if Witness happens to get milled you can always go for Life from the Loam -> Volrath's Stronghold and recur her.

Also, why does the list play 65 cards? Decking with Mesmeric Orb is not an issue at all as if you mill your entire deck you can't really loose as you have all the tools to get your combo on-line.
Playing more than 60 cards really reduces your consistency - you shouldn't be doing it.
Also, note the lack of white producing sources to cast Enlightened Tutor.

But really, to be honest, I don't think that the deck can be much more than a nice fun deck - you just need too many (vulnerable) pieces for it to function.



Anurid Brushhopper doesn't seem that great to me: you don't have much means to create Card Advantage to support his ability so that basically he's reduced to being a 3 mana 3 power beater which is on the bottom end of the power level scale if compared to the rest of the creatures in the metagame.
What about Nimble Mongoose though? It is very cost efficient and getting Threshold shouldn't be hard with Mesmeric Orb.

Hey no thats cool I like your advice and no problem with it being a casual legacy deck. However I dont think I will give up completely on this deck as I feel it has more potential than Imperial Recruiter. With the help I have recieved so far I now have 6 Painter reliant cards, whereas Imperial Recruiter decks have at least 6, but normally 8. Also dont let the numbers fool you, I have never been good with them, hence why I prematurely called this the first version as I expected people to tell me I got them wrong.:cool:

I talked briefly with someone in the know 20 minutes or so ago (my younger bro = how embaressing) and he agreed that this build kinda sucks as it is. But he said something positive for a change that I should add artifact lands. I know was said earlier but what do I take out for them.

Also 65 card is a merely a blunder. I have only been playing Magic for a year or two and still make newby mistakes:laugh: .

[Dosan_the_Wisest_Leaf]

Current build:

1 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Badlands
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Great Furnace
3 Taiga

4 Painter’s Servant
4 Goblin Welder
4 Tarmogyf
4 Dark Confidant
1 Nantuko Blightcutter


3 Mesmeric Orb
2 Compost
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Reap
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Gamble
2 Grindstone
1 Life from the Loam
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

SIDEBOARD
4 Pyroblast
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blood Moon
2 Engineered Plague
3 Leyline of the Void

[Peter_Rotten]

Please avoid doible posting.

Use the Edit Post function instead.