[Discussion] All things Painter

[chmoddity]

I have some questions about Painter's Servant and the red combo(es).

1. Can someone list effective hate cards for me please? I was reading over at Salvation, and so far I have this:

Thoughtseize
Seal of Cleansing
Seal of Primordium
Chalice of the Void
Gaea's Blessing

2. How good is this deck exactly? Easy matchups? Hard ones?

3. Is there any chance that Imperial Recruiter will be banned because it is literally impossible to find?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Pithing Needle, Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, Pyrokinesis, Sickening Shoal, Snuff Out, Abolish, Divert... that's in the one-mana-or-less range. Then you get into things like Trickbind, Disenchant, Wheel of Sun and Moon, Runed Halo, Incinerate, Smother, etc...

I don't think Imperial Recruiter'll be the card to get banned. I think that particular build of the combo might actually be the very weakest. The combo's stronger fitted into a deck that has actual support and something else to do with it's time when it's not comboing off.

[Illissius]

If any part of the combo gets banned I'll eat an article of clothing. They'll sooner ban Counterbalance.

[Anusien]

Stifle, Trickbind, et al tend to be the worst at disrupting the combo since they can still untap and do it again next turn. That said, anything that can kill Painter's Servant tends to disrupt the combo fairly well.

Hard to say how good a 2 card combo is in terms of matchups. You could talk about a particular brand, but not a combo.

Doubt anything will get banned; the results simply aren't there. They didn't ban Lackey, it's unlikely they'll ban Recruiter. It's scarcity, by definition, keeps it from being format dominating. Plus, Counterbalance.

[chmoddity]

Pithing Needle, Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, Pyrokinesis, Sickening Shoal, Snuff Out, Abolish, Divert... that's in the one-mana-or-less range. Then you get into things like Trickbind, Disenchant, Wheel of Sun and Moon, Runed Halo, Incinerate, Smother, etc...I should have been clear. I mean stuff that can't be beaten with a red blast.

[Illissius]

Krosan Grip is obvious.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I should have been clear. I mean stuff that can't be beaten with a red blast.

How about the sixty or so cards that stop the combo for 4> mana that aren't blue? That's exactly why the Recruiter build is so awful. You have a lot more to worry about than counterspells.

Also, Blasts tend to be terrible against Counterbalance.

Krosan Reclamation is particularly awesome in Ichorid and Breakfast, as it turns their win into yours.

[Anusien]

I should have been clear. I mean stuff that can't be beaten with a red blast.
So you want spells and permanents that can't be beaten by a red blast with Painter in play? Well now you basically need to find uncounterable spells to kill Painter and ways to keep it from ever hitting play.

3 E-Plagues, 2 Aether Flash, Chalice of the Void, Krosan Grip. 2 Sudden Shock.

[Illissius]

Urza's Rage, Humility, Sudden Death, Sudden Spoiling, Wipe Away, Molten Disaster, Demonfire, Mouth of Ronom, Shattering Spree, Obliterfuckingate

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Null Rod
Humility
Seal of Doom
Seal of Return
Aura of Silence
Artifact Blast
Illumination
Annul

I mean, the hate available is mostly available in any color (most seals, Rod, Needle, Blessing), so you should be able to deal with it if you make it a priority.

[Aggro_zombies]

Sudden Death does it as well, and is easier for black to get than three Engineered Plagues.

[Anusien]

If they have both pieces, a single REB will take care of Null Rod. I like the rest of your list though.

No one has pointed out "2x Darksteel Colossus" which is the easiest way.

[Brehn]

Krosan Reclamation is particularly awesome in Ichorid and Breakfast, as it turns their win into yours.

If it would really matter: Darksteel Colossus > this. No need for mana.


No one has pointed out "2x Darksteel Colossus" which is the easiest way.

2 Darksteel Colossus = draw. Not win. But it gets around possible Leylines/Crypts/Stifles from Painter.

[Nihil Credo]

It's worth noting that Darksteel Colossus is absolutely useless outside of the Painter matchup, whereas Gaea's Blessing and Krosan Reclamation can come in against graveyard decks - sure, they're subpar hate, but still hate.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Oh, right, Painter's Sevant is As, not When. Mea culpa. Still. Any decent amount of creature removal should put you right. Or, jank of jank, Last Word.


Oh, also, Illumination and Withering Boon.

[Anusien]

Oh, right, Painter's Sevant is As, not When. Mea culpa.
Null Rod only stops activated abilities, not triggered abilities, so it wouldn't change anything.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

a) I'm not sure why you think that comment was talking about Null Rod in particular. It was more vs. creature removal in general.

b) Grindstone is activated, so yes, it would matter.

[Anusien]

b) Grindstone is activated, so yes, it would matter.
They REB the Null Rod, then Grind you out.

[edgewalker]

Then you play your artifact/creature removal in response and stop them from winning?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

They REB the Null Rod, then Grind you out.

Which in no way relates to what you said.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Pithing Needle + Counter Backup/Removal is really good against them.

I haven't been to impressed with Imperial Painter, maybe it's MWS being awful.

[Clark Kant]

If you're that worried about REB countering all your attempts to kill the combo, just play a Gaea's Blessing or two in your sideboard. It's also useful against other decks and can sometime catch decks like solidarity off guard too.

[Fossil4182]

Krosan Grip followed up by Extirpate is a really good play against the Combo. As someone has already referenced, if you Extirpate the Painter and they're playing the Imperial Painter version of the deck, you've make their 8-12 REB basically worthless (assuming you're not running Blue). However, even if you are running Blue, it limits their effectiveness much more than their game play would have been originally. Plus, most other version of the Combo deck use it as a primary, and in some cases, their only win condition. Therefore taking it out basically makes it an easy win for you. BtW both of those cards have Split Second making their resolution a fairly sure thing despite whatever type of protection package they're running.

Also, just because I can, Jester's Cap is always a fun answer to combo if you can get it resolved in time.

[Anusien]

Which in no way relates to what you said.
The rest of the list most people were giving either take effect before the Painter's Servant comes down or are un-Red Elemental Blastable. So Artifact Blast is fine on Painter's Servant, but gets REBed on Grindstone.

[Finn]

What an awesome format. I love the fact that Illumination and Withering Boon are both potential sb cards. Hooda thunkit?

But they probably aren't on the top of the list. Of the solutions given (and the ones that cost more than two are taking a chance), how many are actually reasonable? That is, not painfully narrow and not easily defended by the deck?

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

This one might be fun in Fairie Stompy; Willbender.

[Anusien]

This one might be fun in Fairie Stompy; Willbender.
Now I'm imagining them REBing your Morph pre-emptively, you redirecting the morph to their Panter's Servant and them having to REB their own REB. Good idea, although they can play around it really easily by playing both pieces, then REBing Morph before activating Grindstone. This is slightly sub-optimal if you're secretly rocking Voidmage Prodigy or Voidmage Apprentice, but who does that?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

What an awesome format. I love the fact that Illumination and Withering Boon are both potential sb cards. Hooda thunkit?

But they probably aren't on the top of the list. Of the solutions given (and the ones that cost more than two are taking a chance), how many are actually reasonable? That is, not painfully narrow and not easily defended by the deck?

It depends what build you mean. The Imperial Painter version, which the OP seems concerned with, can't handle non-blue cards at all. So Aura of Silence, Withering Boon, etc., all stop it dead.

Now, against a more versatile decklist, you might want to go more with Gaea's Blessing or the like.


The rest of the list most people were giving either take effect before the Painter's Servant comes down or are un-Red Elemental Blastable. So Artifact Blast is fine on Painter's Servant, but gets REBed on Grindstone.

It's like you're having this separate conversation, and you're the only one involved in it.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Now I'm imagining them REBing your Morph pre-emptively, you redirecting the morph to their Panter's Servant and them having to REB their own REB. Good idea, although they can play around it really easily by playing both pieces, then REBing Morph before activating Grindstone. This is slightly sub-optimal if you're secretly rocking Voidmage Prodigy or Voidmage Apprentice, but who does that?

If they have the mana available. It's not completely REB-proof, but the potential rewards are pretty huge.