[Discussion] Cold-Eyed Selkie

[Bane of the Living]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/taste/db44_7ur9gq3nui.jpg

I think this card is downright amazing. It looks like one of the best cards from Eventide as far as Legacy is concerned. It's blue guy to pitch to FoW, a three drop for Counterbalance curves, and it's got Islandwalk to draw you lots of cards. All that combined with the possibility that it can draw more than one card seem's like it's at least worth testing no?

[Illissius]

As I mentioned in the previews thread, the first card you definitely want to play with this guy is Pendelhaven. Invigorate is hilarious, but probably not good. Merfolk decks will almost certainly play him, what with the Lords to pump him and the Islanding effects to make him connect. Whether this will be enough to make Merfolk competitive, though, is another question entirely.

And I'll also restate my question from there: Is there anything else besides Pendelhaven which you can surreptitiously drop into a deck to help with Selkie, and also not suck when you don't draw it?

[Roman Candle]

And I'll also restate my question from there: Is there anything else besides Pendelhaven which you can surreptitiously drop into a deck to help with Selkie, and also not suck when you don't draw it?

SoFI, SoLS, and Umezawa's Jitte come to mind. That last one seems particularly nasty. A potential five cards per turn... that's pretty dumb.

EDIT: Even Bonesplitter could be good, since it can be fetched by Trinket Mage and help a Goyf punch through another Goyf without Selkie.

[meanee]

Jitte seems quite strong. Or some of the other equipments, I'm especially thinking og the swords of course.

Still, even though it seems quite good its a cc3 card, that doesn't make you win right away, and it is only 1/1. I'm not saying that it will never see any play, but I'm just not that impressed... Well I guess only time will tell (as so often before).

- meanee

[Red Viper]

The above posters beat me to it. Jitte seems strong with this guy. And as you say, with the various merfolk lords, he cries out to be tested in a fish-esque deck.

Looking to his green aspect, turn 1 Birds --> Turn 2 CES seems pretty good too. Especially since then you could play Jitte turn 3 and equip. Assuming he is unblocked, Turn 4 you would be doing 5 damage and drawing 5 cards. That probably wins most games, assuming the rest of the deck isn't worthless.

[Illissius]

I don't like that Jitte has to connect twice before it does anything. That gives them a lot of time to kill something. (In a Merfolk deck, though, it could be good, because it's already good there). Swords are better in that respect, because they even make it harder for them to kill it, but are even more slow and expensive.

Stonewood Invocation could be cute because it doesn't open you up to two for ones from targetted removal (and can even counter some), but I'm guessing it's still too narrow (and expensive).

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Um. Rancor?

[Phantom]

Um. Rancor?

Thank you. Oh, and Briarthorn. This guy could be fun in a creature draw deck with O Viper, Storyteller, and that morph guy.

Still, I'm not expecting a ton from him outside of Merfolk as he doesn't start drawing cards till turn 4, and can't affect the game state very much.

[freakish777]

He can come down turn 2 in Shanes Chrome Mox aggro deck... And Shane does run Rancor...

[BreathWeapon]

Islandwalk is kind of insane, it's a draw engine for Zoo that generates card advantage from Rancor and/or Armadillo Cloak, so it's got more applications than just Merfolk.dec Even an Islandwalking Ophidian is great for Mono-U based control, so I could see it in Vintage for sure.

[Maagler]

what is the best enchant creature for this. I am thinking you want one to pump up toughness. maybe moldervine cloak for an on color enchantment.

[Finn]

I'm going to go with Unstable Mutation for the damage, ass, card draw trifecta.

[Versus]

God, I'd love to Might of Oaks that fucker in a game just to see my opponents reaction.


I'm surprised this is getting so much interest, no one plays Orhan Viper in Legacy and to me that seems like the more powerful creature. I get the Islandwalk, splashabilty, more than one card thing is key, but the lack of an ass seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth. Who knows though, maybe it will recieve the Bob/Lackey target treatment, "kill it now, or lose."

[jazzykat]

Thank you. Oh, and Briarthorn. This guy could be fun in a creature draw deck with O Viper, Storyteller, and that morph guy.


...hystrodon?


Hmm....3 mana for a 1/1 in T1 assuming it hasn't moved passed creature attacks with regards to speed I could see it.

However, in your run of the mill tier 1 or tier 2 (forgive me if using those terms is banned..?) Legacy decks I think that 3 mana is a really big investment for a 1/1 creature that doesn't win you the game by itself. Now in a merfolk deck with all the tricks, protection, and pumps...sure. Personally I would play Jace and draw cards that way.

[Bryant Cook]

Graft?

[Shugyosha]

This is the sideboard card against non-:r: Threshold and Landstill. All you want in these matchups is to get damage through (through evasion) and have more cards than the opponent. And believe me, 1 damage per turn will matter if you draw an additional card to stall the rest of the ground or keep CBS from dying.

Confidant has the same effect but cannot always attack which can backfire pretty often due to his lifeloss.

[rufus]

Centaur Garden might work OK with it as well.

[Illissius]

Graft?

There is Llanowar Reborn, but CIPT is pretty bad. Other than that, IIRC Plaxcaster Frogling was the only one Legacy playable?

[Maagler]

God, I'd love to Might of Oaks that fucker in a game just to see my opponents reaction.


I'm surprised this is getting so much interest, no one plays Orhan Viper in Legacy and to me that seems like the more powerful creature. I get the Islandwalk, splashabilty, more than one card thing is key, but the lack of an ass seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth. Who knows though, maybe it will recieve the Bob/Lackey target treatment, "kill it now, or lose."


the diffrence with this guy over viper is that you can draw more cards, and not just a few more cards but a lot. your giant grows now turn into "i bolt you and ancestral recall"

[Clark Kant]

Damn it.

Why couldn't they have cost him at 2:gu:

The heads of Fairie Stompy players everywhere would explode. The deck already plays SoFI and Jitte, and some builds also play a Bonesplitter to fetch with Trinket Mage. Both Unstable Mutation and Pendelhaven would become very tempting.

[Maagler]

is it just me or does the art on this card look more like it should be u/b. Seriously it is swimming in a freaking swamp.

[rufus]

Damn it.

Why couldn't they have cost him at 2:gu:

The heads of Fairie Stompy players everywhere would explode. The deck already plays SoFI and Jitte, and some builds also play a Bonesplitter to fetch with Trinket Mage. Both Unstable Mutation and Pendelhaven would become very tempting.

With 2u/g for that, you'd start seeing Chalice/3Sphere merfolk with Rejerry, Wake Thrasher, Cold-Eyed Selkie, and Paperfin Rascal.

[Wereodile]

Can anyone see various Rock variants playing this card? I'm not to sure what the cc3 slots looks in Rock decks but I could see that extra card draw coming in handy.

[Aggro_zombies]

Can anyone see various Rock variants playing this card? I'm not to sure what the cc3 slots looks in Rock decks but I could see that extra card draw coming in handy.
No. Bob is better in most cases, especially if you have Top in play. Hell, you could even use Life from the Loam and cycling lands and do better than the Selkie.

It looks nice but needed to have at least three toughness or shroud to be competitive here.

[Wereodile]

No. Bob is better in most cases, especially if you have Top in play. Hell, you could even use Life from the Loam and cycling lands and do better than the Selkie.

It looks nice but needed to have at least three toughness or shroud to be competitive here.

evasion would put this card over the top.

[Phantom]

evasion would put this card over the top.

Like Islandwalk???

[Barook]

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/MOR/EN/Card152604.jpg

Too bad it doesn't make unblockable and sucks horrible without decent Rogues.

[Noman Peopled]

I'm having a hard time picturing a deck for it. It's not a threat (yes, it piles up, but chances are, Goyf and what-have-you is piling up faster), and useless on defense.
I'm not gonna dispute the potential explosivity, but it's a draw engine that does nothing the turn you play it and dies to every removal out there, including Fanatic, and needs support to be better than Finkel.

Most decks that make heavy use of equipment play Tomb and/or City and Moxen to get it out faster. I don't see how you'll find the slots in such a deck, even after boarding - I'd prefer something more with reliable impact. And in decks with only a few equipment pieces, it's a bad Finkel too often for my taste (especially since I lose the equip mana to everything that kills creatures).
I like the Bonesplitter/Trinke Mage idea, though, but that's still two cards and eight mana to make your engine work full capacity.

[georgjorge]

For comparison, there's also Cephalid Constable, which I think was never played in Legacy at all (though it doesn't have Islandwalk).

But at least in theory you now would have the possibility to build a deck around those, with 4 Selkie, 4 Needle Specter and 4 Constable powered up by Unstable Mutation, Rancor, and Invigorate. It would, however, seem to need a Bird or Mox start every game not to be too far behind in tempo.

As just for Selkie + pump effects, I think it doesn't really work out. Because you don't want your pump to be useless without Selkie, you'd need more creatures to benefit from it, which should usually be cheap (1cc or 2cc). But if you run lots of cheap creatures, you probably don't run enough mana or accel to support the Selkie...?

[Illissius]

That's a pretty cool idea even if it'll probably suck. I'd really want to play four copies of Llanowar Reborn, which unfortunately doesn't help with the tempo aspect. Heck, something where you put most to all of the pump in your manabase with Reborns, Pendelhavens, and Centaur Gardens would be cute, but then you're going to have a hell of a time casting Constable and Specter.

Anyways, I think the lesson is that the reason Cephalid Constable isn't played is because it's bad, and that evasion is a very good thing to have.

[Kuma]

He seems like he could be pretty good with the new U/G aura. +2/+2 Flying, Vigilance, Draw three when it hits.

[Lego]

is it just me or does the art on this card look more like it should be u/b. Seriously it is swimming in a freaking swamp.

Nah, he's in a murky pool in a Forest. See, Water, Forest... get it?

[Illissius]

Speaking of which, I was always surprised that green is friends with red and enemies with blue, and not the other way around. I mean, forest + water = combo, forest + fire = not combo*... pretty obvious, right?

* yeah, actually it is a combo if you know about it, but that's not intuitive so shaddup

[yurivish]

This'll be fun in Stompy. That already has Rancor and pump.

[Noman Peopled]

Only Stompy really doesn't want to get to three lands except in special circumstances and in any case, a draw engine such as this is contrary to the whole concept of the deck.
Anything that works well against Stompy will also shut this down, but it doesn't have the benefit of being able to attack fast and cheap, which is especially bothersome against aggro, combo, and often even control (as it gives them more time to gather mana for superior effects).
Stompy aims to deal twenty as fast as possible, very often dumping the entire hand on turn three/four-ish. At that point, Selkie is admittedly likely to do your more good than pump or creatures that have been outclassed in the meantime; it will not prevent your from losing though, unless your opponent's drawing crap. Don't forget that Stompy is so full of outright and potential cda - that's the reason while it pretty much never survives a topdeck war and also the reason why it should concentrate on winning fast rather than making its midgame a bit less miserable.

[Jak]

UG Merfolk with Goyf? It won't have to play horrible Merfolk cards to play the deck. 8 Lords to pump and you can even throw in some Jitte, Trniket/Bonespliter, or Rancor if you are that desperate. I think it is key to not build around this card. Don't add shit equipment just to draw an extra card. He will most likely draw removal (which is nto bad at all) and your Goyfs and merfolk can then win. Playing with crap to give it Shroud, etc will make the deck weak.

[yurivish]

Only Stompy really doesn't want to get to three lands except in special circumstances and in any case, a draw engine such as this is contrary to the whole concept of the deck.
Anything that works well against Stompy will also shut this down, but it doesn't have the benefit of being able to attack fast and cheap, which is especially bothersome against aggro, combo, and often even control (as it gives them more time to gather mana for superior effects).
Stompy aims to deal twenty as fast as possible, very often dumping the entire hand on turn three/four-ish. At that point, Selkie is admittedly likely to do your more good than pump or creatures that have been outclassed in the meantime; it will not prevent your from losing though, unless your opponent's drawing crap. Don't forget that Stompy is so full of outright and potential cda - that's the reason while it pretty much never survives a topdeck war and also the reason why it should concentrate on winning fast rather than making its midgame a bit less miserable.

I haven't thought much about this, but I'm sure some sort of compromise between early efficacy and midgame goodness can be struck. You have ESG, so every once in a while it'll be coming down turn two. Maybe some sort of 15-land stompy with equipment, this guy, and a few more two-cost guys?

[insertnamehere]

In a fast enough green based deck, he can be very well as long as their are pump spells and other ways to protect him.

[hi-val]

This looks like a good plan B for Survival decks. Turn 1 Elf, turn 2 Selkie seems like a pretty good threat against bloo decks, the ones that will counter your Survival. You can easily fit Pendelhaven into the deck as well.

I'm also thinking that it could be a combo card against control decks. If something like High Tide still existed, consider landing one of these against Landstill and just riding it!

Most importantly, it's green card draw. We should be asking what decks want green card draw or need it.

[Osse]

to compare, is this better or worse than shadowmage infiltrator? both have evasion, removal isn't a big issue as most removal will hit both (well, not f/i I guess). selkie can draw more cards, but infiltrator has better evasion.

[Michael Keller]

Infiltrator has better evasion, but the thing that makes this card work is its hybrid mana cost. You can play it in either a blue or green deck, and it promotes card advantage either way.

[Sims]

He can come down turn 2 in Shanes Chrome Mox aggro deck... And Shane does run Rancor...


But who aside from a very few people actually play CMA? It's more commonly going to be seen in Merfolks but I do like the card.

[Phantom]

I really wish this guy was just a TAD stronger. Either the aforementioned 2g/u casting cost, shroud, or better yet, a 1/2 with persist. As is I'm fearful that it will make little impact on our format.

[edgewalker]

If you are comparing the selki to finkel I think you should also ask, "How much play does Finkel see,, and if the selkie is better than Finkel is it enough for it to see play?"

[Fossil4182]

I like the card especially when I don't think this will be an overtly strong set for Legacy. I would stretch that even further to say that I don't think CES will see a lot of play, however: Rancor/Jitte are the ways to go with this. I think this guy holds a place in decks that expect to see a Islands in the area. I don't really see it as a main deck choice unless the meta is heavily "U" oriented. In mirror matches resolving him is awesome since it gets you that extra draw and usually card advantage is best way to go. However, he dies to most of the removal in the format... oh wait I mean all of the removal in the format. I think he's better than Finkle because of the splash ability. Most decks that run black would rather run Bob and if you're utilizing the evasion ability, its not going to matter if its Fear vs Islandwalk if its coming in from the board. Plus, if you deck has a way to increase the damage via Rancor/equip/ect you're always going to be better off with CES anyway. I guess the toughness on Finkle is good for blocking, but against the decks you would side this guy in from, I don't think that's going to be an issue anyway.

[raharu]

to compare, is this better or worse than shadowmage infiltrator? both have evasion, removal isn't a big issue as most removal will hit both (well, not f/i I guess). selkie can draw more cards, but infiltrator has better evasion.
Black removal doesn't touch Finkle.

On a semi-related note, Orhan Viper and Finkle are both better than Selkie, so I think this discussion is pretty devoid of pratical application. With that in mind, continue :laugh:

[Jaiminho]

Black removal doesn't touch Finkle.

Unless it's called Smother. And Finkel.

[dahcmai]

Seems like the 1 extra mana is going to keep him out of my decks. I played around with it as a proxy for laughs and I just can't see using it for anything. I'll take Ohran Viper even if I only have green and if I'm playing green I don't want anything that slow either. Playing blue means you have a better engine anyway. Sorry Selkie, you're going to the commons box.

[Maveric78f]

The only reason why it can be better than finkie is the fact that it's a merfolk and that merfolk decks are already powerful. Although, this card does not fit into that deck because the UUU casting cost prevents you from playing wasteland and rishadan which were the main strengths of the deck.

[mogote]

The only reason why it can be better than finkie is the fact that it's a merfolk and that merfolk decks are already powerful. Although, this card does not fit into that deck because the UUU casting cost prevents you from playing wasteland and rishadan which were the main strengths of the deck.
The casting cost in a blue Merfolk deck would be 1UU. Lord of Atlantis has double blue in its casting cost as well. So that shouldn't be a reason for not including it.