[Discussion] Any viable Eventide Cards?

[Ghostfire45]

Is anything in eventide viable for Legacy?

From talk around my shop and my personal oppinion I find the following cards to have pontential.

I've heard talk of Unmake being usefull in suicide black. Remove their Tarmogoyf from the game on their turn? Sounds good to me.

Stigma Lasher could definatly fit into Goyf Sligh. Any effiecent bear with 2 kick ass abilities should see play.

Stillmoon Caviler- WOW. Protection from Swords and Smother should not be taken lightly.

I'm probably the only one who sees potential in Groundling Pouncer. Green decks now have a dude that can block flyers AND is pretty fricken good at it. For he becomes a 3/4 with flying until EOT. Thats impressive. Against Faerie stompy this guy kills Sea Drake or at least survives against Serendib Efreet.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Snuff Out is one of the many cards better for Sui in Legacy.

Efficient Bears aren't what they once were.

Figure of Destiny has some potential, however, I think, as do several of the Hedge-Mages.

[Ghostfire45]

I agree with the figure of destiny. I personally plan 2 use it in extended but i can see how it would be good here.

[Bardo]

Like 98% of Eventide is total shit for Legacy. Awful, unplayable dreck. About that 2%, I'm an optimist at heart. Otherwise, it's a really bad set for this format.

Unmake - It costs {W/B}{W/B}{W/B} = more than most finishers cost in Legacy. Play Vindicate if you want to pay 3 for removal. Oblivion Ring is better and that isn't seeing much play.

Stigma Lasher - Who gains life? Grizzly Bear is easier to play and about as good.

Stillmoon Cavalier - Cool art. I really like the color palette.

Groundling Pouncer =/= Tarmogoyf. Faerie Stompy isn't exactly a metagame consideration, cool deck that it might be.

If anything, I can see Endless Horizons finding a cool home somewhere, but I don't think that deck will be very good.

What's really saddening about this set is how terrible and unplayable the enemy-color hybrid cards are. I was hoping to get at least one playable U/G or G/B card out of the set. Nope. :(

[Omega]

Stigma Lasher : potential of seeing play in zoo/burn like deck.

Unmake : Unplayable for legacy. For that mana we have vindicate and oblivion ring, that are strictly better. Also, swords to plowshare is superior to unmake.

Stillmoon Cavalier : Potential of minimum play in dead guy.deck (BW). Other than that, i expect no play

Groundling Pouncer : 2 for 2/1. If opponent doesn't play flying (most deck dont run flying), he remains 2/1. If opponent plays flying, he become 3/4 flying. I think this card is bad. It won't see play

Endless Horizons : IT is an ok card. But i dont remember seeing good mono white deck for a while. And if Endless Horizons is destroyed, you lose all plain. Without any acceleration, this is a turn 4 drop. In legacy, turn 4 drop (4cc) should usually be a decisive card. Endless Horizons is not.

figure of destiny : cool abilities. But i dont expect it to be very played in legacy.


those are my opinions. And they are worth what they are

I havent seen all cards of the set (only searched for the one mentioned in this post). I must say that the set doesn't look very good for legacy

Robert

[Ghostfire45]

Groundling pouncer is sideboard material at best, and only against like a few decks ( faerie stompy ) or anything else with flying ( legacy Faeries ).

What i'm saying is that against them hes a pretty good critter. A 3/4 on both offensive and deffesive is not bad especially when you consider that there creatures are the same size or smaller. He only spars with Efreet and just plain dies to tombstalker. Everyone else he trades with or just beats.

Still its not like those decks are a real problem, not to mention they don't see a whole lot of play, so either will pouncer.

Endless Horizons- There is an old card just like this that never saw play. This won't either.

Another card for consideration is Snakeform. It has officially replaced Unmake as the best common in the set. This guy is bomb in limited and is looking to be one in standard. Its ability is sick and damn nere ridiculous. It even draws u a card. 3 mana is a bit much in this format but i smell potential

[umbowta]

Another card for consideration is Snakeform. It has officially replaced Unmake as the best common in the set. This guy is bomb in limited and is looking to be one in standard. Its ability is sick and damn nere ridiculous. It even draws u a card. 3 mana is a bit much in this format but i smell potential
Yep. This was one of the cards I went to the prerelease to get. The guys who I know to be better players didn't want to come off them. I still got a couple playsets from noobs and nice guys.

[Omega]

Snakeform will be a bomb in t2, probably extended too. It might see some play in legacy, but i doubt it.

Robert

[xsockmonkeyx]

<3 Wistful Selkie...





...but it won't see play.

[The Rack]

I really like Stigma Lasher for some reason. It looks like Ghost Rider and won't be too bad in Sligh. Eh, I'll test it out.

[Mirrislegend]

Can someone explain this hi opinion of Snakeform?

[munkie]

Raven's Crime along with a lot of the other retrace spells are truly going to make Loam decks the decks to beat.

I can't believe how obsessed you guys are with the creatures when cards like Raven's Crime are going to break the format. The only way to get around it is if you have Counter-Top. If not, you lose. Watch out, Legacy. Retrace spells are about to fuck your shit up.

[rleader]

I'm not a fan of it, really, but I can see where people are coming from: It's pseudo-removal (depending on your board) as a cantrip in colors that don't have removal. I can remember some people being slightly impressed by Ovinize and Pongify, and this is much better -- at least now that people aren't as concerned about turn-1 goblin lackey.

[Lothian]

I can't believe how obsessed you guys are with the creatures when cards like Raven's Crime are going to break the format. The only way to get around it is if you have Counter-Top. If not, you lose.

I really doubt this is going to scare Ichorid...

An easy way out is to keep your lands yourself, making it land for land. Worst case is to be on top-deck mode. Gob wouldn't mind that would it?

Is it the way you want to break the format?

[Vetinari]

I can't believe how obsessed you guys are with the creatures when cards like Raven's Crime are going to break the format. The only way to get around it is if you have Counter-Top.
That and any form of graveyard hate. But nobody plays that. Oh, wait. There is this deck called Ichorid...

[Pulp_Fiction]

Basically just Worm Harvest which will be a great finisher in Lands! or Eternal Garden and will probably see some play as a 1x of Wish target in a few Aggro Loam builds. Aside from that the set is pretty much shit.

Now Endless Horizons is very interesting but I think it is one of the cards like Ohran Viper in that the card is good, but it just won't find a home in anything.

[Ghostfire45]

Can someone explain this hi opinion of Snakeform?

The high opinion of Snakeform stems from the fact that it is a nasty combat trick. It gives its controler the ability to trade there 1/1 for your biggest attacking or blocking critter, or just block with something bigger.

In addition it can pontentially ruin a combo deck. In t2 it will ruin Lark as well as Swans and may do the same in legacy as well.

Also going for it is the fact that it is :ug: which can fit in almost every deck.

Its downfall in this format is that it cost 3, which isn't all that restricting considering Krosan Grip recieves heavy play and shares a color with this.

[Roman Candle]

The high opinion of Snakeform stems from the fact that it is a nasty combat trick. It gives its controler the ability to trade there 1/1 for your biggest attacking or blocking critter, or just block with something bigger.

In addition it can pontentially ruin a combo deck. In t2 it will ruin Lark as well as Swans and may do the same in legacy as well.

Also going for it is the fact that it is :ug: which can fit in almost every deck.

Its downfall in this format is that it cost 3, which isn't all that restricting considering Krosan Grip recieves heavy play and shares a color with this.

It's downfall in this format is it costs three, and decks that can reliably get to 3 mana aren't the ones that enter the red zone enough to be able to use a combat trick. Obviously, there are exceptions, but I don't see Snakeform seeing any play in the format whatsoever.

It also doesn't fizzle Swans in T2. They can pass the turn and kill in your upkeep.

[hugh1130]

It's downfall in this format is it costs three, and decks that can reliably get to 3 mana aren't the ones that enter the red zone enough to be able to use a combat trick. Obviously, there are exceptions, but I don't see Snakeform seeing any play in the format whatsoever.

It also doesn't fizzle Swans in T2. They can pass the turn and kill in your upkeep.

not sure how swans works in T2 but, i would assume they have to target the swans with some dmg, and snake form in repsonse to dmg on the swan seems to mean gg

[Ghostfire45]

not sure how swans works in T2 but, i would assume they have to target the swans with some dmg, and snake form in repsonse to dmg on the swan seems to mean gg

Thats exactly right, the swans dies in this example.

As for snakeform i now believe it is fair to say that it will not impact legacy, but may still see play. I like to keep my options open. However it will still shit all over t2.

Ive heard talk of Cold-Eye selkie making an appearence in fish. I don't understand peoples fasination with this card in this format or t2. Its a 1/1 that costs 3. This is seriously underpowered. All it needs is to have 3 toughness and draw u 1 card, that way its an island walking finkle. Then it would be good.

[rleader]

Thats exactly right, the swans dies in this example.

AFAIK, the new STD combo can combo off a second time in response to a spell on the stack so snakeform isn't all that scary.

[adrieng]

I agree whith what has been said before only worm harvest seems playable for loam decks as a one off in sb.
I was hoping for a retrace disenchant for 2G or 3G which would have solved problematic enchantment such as humility and counterbalance for loam decks or control decks with intuition (aluren, the fear ...by example). But it didn't happened...

[Bryant Cook]

Worm harvest will definitely see play in loam decks as a wish target at the very least. The discard a card may also see play, unlikely, but possible in loam.

The only other card I see having potential is Snakeform, Humility as a cantrip has to be good for something.

[emidln]

Worm harvest will definitely see play in loam decks as a wish target at the very least. The discard a card may also see play, unlikely, but possible in loam.

The only other card I see having potential is Snakeform, Humility as a cantrip has to be good for something.

It's actually a decent alternate to traditional removal in combo. Turning Meddling Mage, Gaddock Teeg, etc into a 1/1 and drawing a card seems like it would be solid. In a pinch it might also stall Goyf for a turn.

[Roman Candle]

It's actually a decent alternate to traditional removal in combo. Turning Meddling Mage, Gaddock Teeg, etc into a 1/1 and drawing a card seems like it would be solid. In a pinch it might also stall Goyf for a turn.

But is it really better than Wipe Away for that?

[emidln]

But is it really better than Wipe Away for that?

Better? Situationally. It'd be a lot better against decks without counters. The only situations you might face is your opp STPs their own creature (in which case Humility card is just as good as wipe away) or it resolves and you deal with the creature + draw a card. I guess if you don't have the mana to main phase it, it could be an issue.

[Nihil Credo]

I'd say that Snakeform could only beat bounce if it lasted until the next EOT step, rather than until end of turn. As it is, it's strictly worse than Repulse (well, almost, since a Repulsed Mage can be pitched to FoW).

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Snakeform also doesn't hit Chalice or Trinisphere. =/

[technogeek5000]

Well, I still like Raven's Crime and Worm harvest in loam decks. Those Im pretty sure are the only semi competitive cards outside of selkie and maaaaaybe nettle sentinel in Mono green stompy.

[Ghostfire45]

While we're on the subject of mono green stompy slippery boggle should fit quite nicely into a deck that is notourious of playing ledgewalker. A 1/1 with troll shroud is a great target for Rancor.

[mercenarybdu]

MOst is trash at this time, but if you want to take the risk be my guest. So far Figure of Destiny and Unmake are the playables at this time followed by whatever else that the community could find of use.

[Jak]

MOst is trash at this time, but if you want to take the risk be my guest. So far Figure of Destiny and Unmake are the playables at this time followed by whatever else that the community could find of use.

Unmake won't see any play. Swords, Oblivion Ring and even Vindicate are better.

[Ghostfire45]

I have recently discovered a n interaction between two cards that I found most interesting; Swords to Plowshares and Stigma Lasher. You deal damage with the Lasher and for the rest of the game your swords are 1 mana instant removal spells. I feel this will be quite useful in legacy Zoo and Boros decks or just anything running red and white. This will also lend itself to Condem and anyone else worried about life gain. Stigma Lasher is in the house.

[insertnamehere]

What about the :bg: Leige in Rock. It is a 4 drop which doesn't get touched by deed and puts in a 3/3 :bg: wurm creature at the beginning of your upkeep. I also think the 4/3 elf (Talaris's Batallion) deserves some recognition among a few others.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I have recently discovered a n interaction between two cards that I found most interesting; Swords to Plowshares and Stigma Lasher. You deal damage with the Lasher and for the rest of the game your swords are 1 mana instant removal spells. I feel this will be quite useful in legacy Zoo and Boros decks or just anything running red and white. This will also lend itself to Condem and anyone else worried about life gain. Stigma Lasher is in the house.

Somehow, I don't think, "It makes Swords to Plowshares good" is an efficient argument for a card's strength.

[Ghostfire45]

Somehow, I don't think, "It makes Swords to Plowshares good" is an efficient argument for a card's strength.

That is not at all what i am saying. Swords to plowshares is a sick card, probably the best removal ever. However the lifegain can be kinda ruff, especially if you remove something HUGE like tomstalker. Lasher stops this from happening.

Has anyone else seen the new player rewards cards? FYI they are textless ponder and Corrupt.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

What I'm saying is that it's unlikely for that to be a strong argument. StP already being amazing, making it more so isn't a huge reason to run a Grizzly Bear, when other Grizzly Bears have better abilities; Blood Knight's making your opponent's StPs worse seems more relevant.

[Ghostfire45]

Blood Knight's making your opponent's StPs worse seems more relevant.

Blood Knight is a better bear, i play him in my goyf sligh for the reason you so colorfully stated.

I was just pointing out somethiing that i thought was interesting/effiecent.

P.S. he also shuts off exhaulted angel

[Tacosnape]

Somehow, I don't think, "It makes Swords to Plowshares good" is an efficient argument for a card's strength.

Although, in defense of that point, people say "It pitches to Force of Will" when defending any blue card in existence.

[Lego]

Although, in defense of that point, people say "It pitches to Force of Will" when defending any blue card in existence.

The problem with that argument for bad blue cards is that you can replace the card with any better blue card and make the same argument. That's almost an argument for Stigma Lasher though. You can't insert any other red card in that slot. Still, that doesn't make it worth playing.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Although, in defense of that point, people say "It pitches to Force of Will" when defending any blue card in existence.

People say all kinds of stupid things, including this statement you just made.

[Elficidium]

I can see Wake Thrasher getting an aggro build of Triton's Minions to Established.

[Mirrislegend]

Although too slow for Legacy, and maybe even too slow for modern Extended (riddled with Affinity as it is), Spitemare plays like a house vs aggro. Just halts the offense dead in its tracks.

[Fossil4182]

Ya, there are tons of Viable cards...oh wait this is a Legacy discussion board. At any rate, I didn't see anything of real value for use in Legacy. Elves got some okay stuff if you're into to Tribal Elf decks. Endless Horizons is cool, however I don't think there's a good home for it, nor is powerful enough to build a deck around. I think it falls into the danger of cool things.

There are a few cards that will find homes in some decks, but I don't think any will be format altering which is good.

I'm actually happy that this set had few viable cards for a few reason:

1. I'm going back to school so I can save some money for a New Computer.

2. I can save money for cards that I actually need in Legacy
3. I can save money for Mythical Rares that are going to be released.

4. The format seems fairly balance right now and having that sort of stability when heading into GenCon will be kind of cool: specifically to see how the field plays out and to see what deck breaks out of the field that no one's expecting.

[georgjorge]

What about the :bg: Leige in Rock. It is a 4 drop which doesn't get touched by deed and puts in a 3/3 :bg: wurm creature at the beginning of your upkeep. I also think the 4/3 elf (Talaris's Batallion) deserves some recognition among a few others.

I thought that Liege was decent too, but I compared it to Garruk, who has more abilities and whose tokens don't shrink when he dies (and who also doesn't die to Deed, or Damnation, or any removal save Vindicate at that).

The only thing Liege has going for it is pumping your Birds/Goyfs/Elders/Confidants, and I'm not sure that's enough.

[Ghostfire45]

I have played against the liege in t2 and let me be the first to say that he is a power house. If you do not have the spot removal to kill him right then or the following turn, be warned, he will demolish you.

A friend built an interesting new The Rock deck that focused on good critters, as opposed to elves, which also incorporated the new set. He was playing Talara's Battalion, Stalker Hag and liege, among others including kitchen finks, and collosus. It was sick and is sure to be rockin the tournament tables in a simular form. If anyone cares to see it I can post his list.

As for legacy people always have the removal to handle a guy with 2 toughness, not to mention 4 mana is daunting. Garruk is still favorable, but i see the liege fitting nicely into standard and extended.

[conboy31]

I rarely play t2 but that seems like a high curve even for that format.

Did he round out the bottom with stuff like birds/wall roots/seize?

Anyone else find the boxes seem to have tons of doubles and almost identical packs (to some degree)? I am not speaking from too much experience, but the box I saw opened did not have much variety and some of the commons where the same and in the same order with rares often appearing x2 and uncommons at a rate of 2 or 3 vs 0 in relatively short bursts of packs.

[Ghostfire45]

no, yes, and no.

The curve was surprisingly high, but can handle other midrange decks with ease. Not sure how he does against aggro. He will find out friday at my shops standard tournament.

[Versus]

I don't even think Eventide on the whole is that great for Type 2. The store by where I work (that is usually high priced) has a shelf and stack of every rare in their case from the past 3 sets. Besides the filter lands and that Figure of Destiny, nothing was priced higher than $5.99 and that was Selkie. Everything else was $ 1.99 and even some .99 centers.

[GenioDeArena]

A card that cought my eye was Savage Conception, might work as a late game recurring threat for Midrange.
Not very much sadly.

On a side note:
Im preety sure that mythic rare is going to be Tarmo´s next appearance maybe not in Shards of Alara, but as soon as sales go down a bit.

[boris13]

I think Stillmoon Cavalier and Ashling the Extinusher have a good chance of making it in type 2. I have been testsing them in decks and Stillmoon wins the game easily and is hard to kill because of the pro white and black. Ashling is good when it gets attacks through and it is a 4/4 for 4 not really bad there. Other than that everything else has been mention so I won't repeat it.

[Nightmare]

I have played against the liege in t2 and let me be the first to say that he is a power house. If you do not have the spot removal to kill him right then or the following turn, be warned, he will demolish you.Or you know, a blocker or two (but who plays guys bigger than 2/2 in Legacy?), and a sweeper in the next two turns...


Turn 4 - 2/2, go.
Turn 5 - Make a 3/3, attack for 2, go.
Turn 6 - Start getting a return on my investment.

[Bryant Cook]

I see Worm Harvest and Raven's Crime busting aggroloam in half. It should become a lot more resilient.

EDIT: Just saw tecknogeek5000's post. I basically agree.

[mogote]

I see Worm Harvest and Raven's Crime busting aggroloam in half. It should become a lot more resilient.
I think it's interesting that Worm Harvest still has potential at a casting cost of 5 mana. It was revealed by Mike Turian today (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/dl48) that Worm Harvest started at 2cc but was deemed too good. :-)

[Lego]

I think it's interesting that Worm Harvest still has potential at a casting cost of 5 mana. It was revealed by Mike Turian today (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/dl48) that Worm Harvest started at 2cc but was deemed too good. :-)

How awesome would it have been a 2cc?

[Nihil Credo]

The developer comments specifically said that it was insane in 42Lands.dec. So it seems someone does know a bit about Legacy in R&D ;)

[Sims]

I don't even think Eventide on the whole is that great for Type 2. The store by where I work (that is usually high priced) has a shelf and stack of every rare in their case from the past 3 sets. Besides the filter lands and that Figure of Destiny, nothing was priced higher than $5.99 and that was Selkie. Everything else was $ 1.99 and even some .99 centers.

Then buy all their Wake Thrashers at 1.99 each.

[Lego]

Then buy all their Wake Thrashers at 1.99 each.

Not to mention most of the Lieges (Murkfiend won't see much play), Hallowed Burial, Stillmoon Cavalier, and Talara's Batallion. Those will all net you profit at $1.99 a piece.

[Team-Hero]

I think that Double Cleave (The r/w card that gives a creature double stike until end of turn) has potential only because it acts as a psudo white fling. Granted, it's not the same as fling, but it's for white and you don't lose the creature at end of turn. It's ALMOST like a Berzerk.