[Unlocking Legacy] - Analyzing Recent Tournaments

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

by Christopher Coppola, aka Machinus.

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/16190.html

I actually found it rather succinct and helpful. Probably the best of these in a while.

[FoolofaTook]

This is what I was getting at a while back when I asked why Threshold had not become the dominant deck that we all thought it would be. It's like the runner who breaks fast at the start and always gets caught up by the end of the race.

My theory at this point is that Threshold is just too vanilla, lacking locks other than the soft lock that CounterTop gives against some decks, and trying to finish with Tarmogoyf, the most present threat in the metagame and one that everybody is prepared for by top 8.

[Fossil4182]

I was surprised at the lack of combo decks that made a showing. Ichorid did have a good showing, but there where only 3 Painter and 3 Aluren Decks. I didn't expect to see Solidarity show up, but I figured a Storm Deck variant like TES or Fetchland Tendrils would have showed up or even 2 Land Belcher.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Well as people realize that Thresh is biting it more and more to all the board control running around, and that the same board control decks pretty much bend it to combo, will the meta become more RPS, where combo beats board control beats Thresh beats combo?

And more importantly, how long would it take for people to start realizing this and picking up combo in large numbers again?

[stalkerzero]

Great article. Really has me wondering what to do next in my Legacy career.

I've only been playing for about two months now (after a 12 year break from the game) and was starting to work towards a UGw Thresh while playing an old vintage combo deck ported over to Legacy.

Now I'm thinking it may not be time to give up on combo depending on how accurately this article depicts a possible meta shift.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Well as people realize that Thresh is biting it more and more to all the board control running around, and that the same board control decks pretty much bend it to combo, will the meta become more RPS, where combo beats board control beats Thresh beats combo?

And more importantly, how long would it take for people to start realizing this and picking up combo in large numbers again?
Not until Thresh stops seeing less play. Countertop still presents a huge issue for most combo players and as long as Thresh is taking up a majority in the Swiss, combo will remain grossly underplayed.

[Deep6er]

White Ghost is right. With Landstill and other board control decks picking up Counterbalance, Combo is still in for a hard time. With the appearance of decks like VoroshStill/It's the Fear, and (God willing) their rise in popularity, it would be just as bad for Combo as if it was Threshold because answers to Threshold are different than answer for Control. Even though the crux of both of those matchups is Counter/Top, the way to deal with it is different for both of those archetypes.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Landstill is the only board control deck that can support Countertop. Loam is seemingly more popular and doesn't have that option.

Also, Landstill's clok <<< Thresh's clock. How can that not be relevant?

[Deep6er]

It's irrelevant if Combo CAN'T RESOLVE A SPELL.

Also, It's the Fear supports Counterbalance quite nicely. Asshole.

You are right though, Loam cannot support Counterbalance, but that doesn't mean that control decks that make use of Counterbalance aren't enough to stop Combo decks. While Loam is popular, it's a guessing game. I GUESS that there will be enough Counterbalance to shut off combo. Here's hoping.

I definitely say that the newer Control decks sporting Counterbalance are the wave of the future. I think it's how Control should adapt to the new Legacy scene.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Dave, I think you misread my point. Tarmogoyf/Countertop in control obviously give the aforementioned control decks a more positive combo matchup then their counterparts. However, my point was that although Threshold is starting to be hated out, it is still one of the most played decks in the format and has a really good combo matchup and until it starts seeing less play in favor of decks like Survival/Ichorid/Loam/Landstill, Combo will still not see much play.

[Deep6er]

Actually, what I had tried to do was to take your point and expand upon it. Basically, I said that I agreed with you. Yes, Threshold is played quite a bit. However, Combo ALSO has to deal with the control decks sporting Counterbalance.

My point was that Combo has to deal with BOTH of these factors now. That's all.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Actually, what I had tried to do was to take your point and expand upon it. Basically, I said that I agreed with you. Yes, Threshold is played quite a bit. However, Combo ALSO has to deal with the control decks sporting Counterbalance.

My point was that Combo has to deal with BOTH of these factors now. That's all.
Ah. My mistake. Well put.

[Brehn]

Moar of this kind of articles.

But still, that TrinketStalker deck is not a new idea at all. It might have been a new idea when Mori played it at Worlds (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=12319), but that's been some months.

[Bryant Cook]

I'm the only combo player that puts up results, I don't know how many top 8's I have to put up before intelligent life picks up T.E.S.
All your theory are belong to me.

/The end.

[Hightower]

Ichorid is kinda combo, no?

[Brehn]

No.

[Hightower]

Why not? Because it doesn't use tutors?

(besides both Aluren and Painter Combo are representated)

[Brehn]

Because it wins more than 70% of its games without going off.

(if Ichorid is combo, Dreadstill is also combo)

[Elfrago]

Because it wins more than 70% of its games without going off.

(if Ichorid is combo, Dreadstill is also combo)

Aggro-Combo then.

[AnwarA101]

Because it wins more than 70% of its games without going off.

(if Ichorid is combo, Dreadstill is also combo)

I think Ichorid is probably best described as aggro-combo. Its an aggro deck that given the right conditions can combo off and win the game in one turn. Its a very good deck to play to beat something like Threshold because its combo is very hard to disrupt and its aggro plan can be enough to win when its combo has been disrupted.

Dreadstill sounds like a combo-control deck which essentially plays control until it combo off with Stifle + Dreadnought.

The article was informative and it seems like diversity is not something that is lacking in Legacy T8s.

[idraleo]

It might have been a new idea when Mori played it at Worlds (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=12319), but that's been some months.


BUM! Headshot!!!

[rleader]

Because it wins more than 70% of its games without going off.

well, only because of hate, really. If a meta was completely unprepared for it, I'm sure more zombie tokens would be heading for the red zone. :shrug:

[Natthew]

This article is hard to read. It has choppy sentences. These are sentences which are too short. This article also explains obvious things. I suppose I'm being too vindicative. But it is really unreadable. Threshold is overrated.

[Ghostfire45]

Ok so if combo don't work against a control format, u want 2 no what will...?

AGGRO

Just play aggro/ burn decks and scare the shit out of thresh players.

They can't handle goyf sligh with river boa maindeck. I have talked to many thresh players and they all agree.

Via la River Boa

[Omega]

until they play 5c and bring in the pyroclasm

Robert

[Lego]

5C Threshold is obviously the answer :wink:

[Omega]

Unfortunately, the legacy championship is saturday, and i am not confortable with 5c. I will go with 3c UGW. Weaker aggro matchup, yes. But the deck has been customised to fit my weird tastes :) So i think i will do ok

Robrt

[Ghostfire45]

until they play 5c and bring in the pyroclasm

then u burn them out, hence running 20+ burn spells.

Burn it out.

[Omega]

but oh noes, 5c still play CB top :)

I have tested 5c and yes it is more "explosive" than other forms of ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh. But i still find it very unstable with that mana base. The lack of a solid basic land base is killing

Robert