Say you work at Wizards and were tasked with...

[SuckerPunch]

Here's a neat little thought experiment.

Say you work at Wizards and were tasked with creating creatures that while not broken, provided viable alternatives to playing Tarmogoyf.

Creatures that are solid on their own as attackers, efficently costed and provide either a decent blocker/answer to Tarmogoyf or can straight up race him.

Examples of such existing creatures (ripped off ideas from the best creatures thread) include... Tombstalker, Morphling, Sower of Temptation, Exalted Angel, Countryside Crusher, Wren's Run Vanquisher, arguably Jotun Grunt.

Everyone that replies, post atleast one suggestion.

When designing such cards, keep in mind that Tarmogoyf is typically a 2cc 4/5 or 5/6

Here are some of mine...

Viable Wearbear 1W
Threshold - This gets +1/+4.
2/2

Ashenmoor Black BBB
Protection from Green
4/3

Ashenmoor Defense BBB
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.
4/6

[SuckerPunch]

It's cool to see I'm not the only one who has thought about this already.

But I specifically said creatures. And not just any creatures, efficently costed aggressive creatures.

The point isn't to create cards whos sole purpose is hating on Goyf, but that otherwise suck.

The point is creatures with a high enough power that they fit right at home into an aggro deck, but also happen to provide an answer/alternative to goyf.

A 1/2 doesn't meet that criteria. The card needs to atleast have a power of 3 imo, 4 is preferable.

Basically, creatures for us casual Sui Black and White Weenie and 9 land stompy players that wish Goyf didn't just effictively kill off their pet deck.

[r0ckstAr]

Burning thing RR
~ comes into play tapped.
When ~ deals damage to a creature, you may have it deal the same amount of damage to you and to that creature.
4/1

Efficient red aggressive creature, which, although fragile, can kill a goyf on it's own.

[Captain_Morgan]

UW

Name a card, that card cannot be played.

2/2

Oh wait, :eek:


Euguene, the Mysanthropic Goth
WB

1/1 Legendary Rebel Nerd Human

Whenever Eugune, the Mysanthropic Goth blocks, you may remove it from the game and search your library, graveyard or hand for a card with equal or greater power than the creature that Euguene, the Mysanthropic Goth is blocking and put that card in place of Euguene, the Mysanthropic Goth. After the combat phase, place the choson card into your library.

"Mom they're picking on me for wearing eyeliner again!

-Euguene

[Ghostfire45]

Ok i'll give a whack at this

Super River Boa :2: :g:
Critter-snake

Islandwalk
Super River Boa gets +1/+1 for each island your opponent controls
:g: Regenerate
2/1

A thresh player usually has 2 islands so Super River Boa will be a 4/3 most of the time. It will kill goyf regen then smash face.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The problem is that it's hard to think of ways of doing this without introducing significant power inflation. Wizards ought to just take a more responsible role and ban Tarmogoyf, since it completely throws the power curve of beating/blocking creatures out of wack. Remember when a 3/4 for 3 was considered good if it had an ability or two thrown in? Hell, you remember when Wild Mongrel was being touted as one of the best creatures ever made, instead of an unplayable piece of dreck?

[MattH]

The problem is that it's hard to think of ways of doing this without introducing significant power inflation. Wizards ought to just take a more responsible role and ban Tarmogoyf, since it completely throws the power curve of beating/blocking creatures out of wack. Remember when a 3/4 for 3 was considered good if it had an ability or two thrown in? Hell, you remember when Wild Mongrel was being touted as one of the best creatures ever made, instead of an unplayable piece of dreck?

Heh, I remember (http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/AL/en-us/Card3053.jpg) when a 3/4 for 3 was good with two drawbacks.



Yard Weasel
:2: :b:
Creature - Demon Beast
3/2
:1: :b: :Choose a card type. Remove all cards in all graveyards of that type.

Variable Smasher
:b: :w:
Creature - Wall Legend Lord
2/2
All {X} mana symbols on all cards are :1: instead.
All *s on all cards are equal to 1 instead of whatever they were.

(Sort of a Gaddock Teeg variant.)

Steamflogger CEO
:1: :r: :u:
Creature - Executive
4/1
Whenever a creature attacks, it gets -X/-0, where X is equal to that creature's toughness.

[Clark Kant]

Ghostfire, who're you kidding. A 4/3 is not going to kill Goyf. You need atleast a 5/2 but realistically a 6/1


The problem is that it's hard to think of ways of doing this without introducing significant power inflation. Wizards ought to just take a more responsible role and ban Tarmogoyf, since it completely throws the power curve of beating/blocking creatures out of wack.

Wizards isn't ever going to own up to their mistakes. So you can forget about Goyf getting banned. It's not going to happen.

This thread/task is interesting. Hopefully it'll give Wizards some ideas.

To keep from the derailing the thread, I will do as others are and post a suggestion.

Dreck 2B
When Dreck deals combat damage to a creature, all cards in all graveyards phase out.
4/3

Phasing can be either blue or black. But black (and white) needs more good weenies. Blue already has Goyf, Sea Drake, Wake Thrasher, Nimble Mongoose etc. Green already has Goyf, Mongoose, Werebear, Dryad, Talara's Battalion etc.

[Ghostfire45]

Ghostfire, who're you kidding. A 4/3 is not going to kill Goyf. You need atleast a 5/2 but realistically a 6/1

Fair, he is usually a 4/5. Between the two graveyards there is almost always land, sorcery, instant, and creature.

But what ev. The answer to the quesion is quite simple: deathtouch. Seriously.

But that kinda takes the fun out of it, so lets try again.

Super Spectral Lynx :2: :w:
Critter- cat

Pro Green
As long as an opponent controls a green creature Super Spectral Lynx gets
+3/+3.
:b: Regenerate

2/1

There a 5/4 that handles goyf, and then some.

[Clark Kant]

I love it. I hope wizards prints a similar card but instead has it say... :eek:

Super Spectral Lynx 2W
Critter- cat

Islandwalk (maybe)
As long as an opponent controls an island Super Spectral Lynx gets
+3/+3.
Regenerate B

2/1

Basically a super river boa but in black or white or both. Because those two colors need some good weenies imho.

[Ghostfire45]

I love it. I hope wizards prints a similar card but instead has it say... :eek:

Super Spectral Lynx 2W
Critter- cat

Islandwalk (maybe)
As long as an opponent controls an island Super Spectral Lynx gets
+3/+3.
Regenerate B

2/1

Basically a super river boa but in black or white or both. Because those two colors need some good weenies imho.

Basically taking both of my ideas and makeing one card. I'm flattered. Still its nice to know someone else understands how bad ass spectral lynx and river boa are.

[Rood]

RU Burning Skyfolk
Creature type- Faerie Merfolk
Whenever BS attacks you lose 2 life.
Play BS only after you've played an instant, and land this turn.

Flying
5/6

[SuckerPunch]

I think Burning Skyfolk is missing the point.

The point was to suggest creatures that can be played in nonthreshold decks as a budget way to answer goyf all while providing for a decent threat.

The point was not to print something that would make UGR threshold ridiculously broken in half. Threshold is plenty competitive without wizards printing Burning Skyfolk.

This creature is meant to be a alternative creature for budget players (ex: sui black and white weenie players that can't afford to splash to play goyf) since goyf made their previous strategy and gameplan and all the old sui black and white weenie lists completely unviable.

So making the card multicolored is a bad idea (multicolored cards are not great for budget decks) and making the creature blue is an even worse idea.

Budget mono red players have burn decks. Budget mono green players have elves. Both burn and elves are as competitive as ever. Budget mono blue players don't exist (and if they do, they can play MUC without the FoW and do fairly well).

So I think these creatures really work best if they're made with mono white weenie and mono sui black in mind. The two archeatypes that Goyf played a big role in killing off.

[Lego]

Variable Smasher
:b: :w:
Creature - Wall Legend Lord
2/2
All {X} mana symbols on all cards are :1: instead.
All *s on all cards are equal to 1 instead of whatever they were.

This doesn't work with the rules at all. Making all players choose 1 for X is doable, but "*" doesn't exist in the rules. It's just a placeholder to let you know that a CDA defines the Power/Toughness.

[BreathWeapon]

Kithkin Pacifist WW

Creature-Kithkin Cleric

Creatures with power greater than Kithkin Pacifist's power do not untap during their controller's untap phase.

2/2

[Ghostfire45]

Kithkin Pacifist WW

Creature-Kithkin Cleric

Creatures with power greater than Kithkin Pacifist's power do not untap during their controller's untap phase.

2/2

Nice that is the best design so far.

[Clark Kant]

I love it.

Damn, now I really really wish someone over at Wizards is looking at this thread and has plans to use all these ideas.:smile:

[GreenOne]

Goblin Hulk 1 R/B R/B
Creature - Goblin

Goblin Hulk Comes into play with a number of +1+1 counters equal to the damage you took on your last opponent's turn.

"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry"
1/1


It's a little green man that when you get hurt becomes literally green.
This doesn't feel overpowered, cause it sucks against control. However, it's a good solution for goyf and a moderately good solution to plague for monored gobbos. Maybe it should cost R/B R/B R/B though.

[Anusien]

Hungrier Spriggan - {1}{G}{G}
Creature - Beast
Trample
When Hungrier Spriggan attacks, it gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
When Hungrier Spriggan is blocked, it gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/2

Poisoned Oak - {1}{B}{G}
Creature - Treefolk
Deathtouch
1/5

Elvish Assassin - {1}{B}{B}
Creature - Elf Assassin
Provoke
Deathtouch
2/1

Aven Harasser - {1}{W}{W}
Creature - Bird Soldier
Vigilance, Flying
{1}, {T}: Tap target creature without flying.

Deepwater Horror - {3}{U}{U}
Creature - Serpent
Islandwalk, Shroud
Deepwater Horror cannot attack unless defending player controls an Island
0: Deepwater Horror loses Shroud and can attack defending player that does not control an Island until end of turn.
3/3

That last one probably needs to be tweaked, but it's a cool design to me. As written it doesn't actually beat a Goyf.

[Mirrislegend]

Yard Weasel
:2: :b:
Creature - Demon Beast
3/2
:1: :b: :Choose a card type. Remove all cards in all graveyards of that type.

I'm going to have to go with MattH's submission. Nice card design, splashable, fair, effective, and useful for more than just goyf.

[Barook]

Kithkin Pacifist WW

Creature-Kithkin Cleric

Creatures with power greater than Kithkin Pacifist's power do not untap during their controller's untap phase.

2/2
A really cool design.

My take on the problem:

Dystopian Assassin :b::b:
Creature - Zombie Assassin

When Dystopian Assassin comes into play, target player sacrifices a green or white creature of your choice.
Whenever an opponent plays a green or white spell, if Dystopian Assassin is in your graveyard, you may remove a black card in your graveyard from the game. If you do, return Dystopian Assassin to your hand.

2/2

[Lego]

Aven Harasser - {1}{W}{W}
Creature - Bird Soldier
Vigilance, Flying
{1}, {T}: Tap target creature without flying.

Seems almost playable. What's his P/T? :)

[Anusien]

Seems almost playable. What's his P/T? :)
Oops. At those stats, he's probably only a 1/1 or a 1/2. Costing tappers is tricky; their power level doesn't stay consistent. In fact there's never been a vigilant tapper; the closest we have is Silkbind Faerie. Makes me suspicious about this guy being so cheap to, but Faerie was a 1/3.

Funny, I think the Spriggan redux is probably the best of those. The main problem with Goyf isn't, it seems, that it's so big, but that it's good on offense and defense. If Goyf could only play one of those roles instead of both, it would be far less obnoxious. If Goyf could only attack, Goblins would be able to race Threshold.

[bruno_tiete]

Ain't Knight of Meadowgrain a nice way to race goyf?

and to keep it running, I thought of something like

Hunting Whatever XB

~ Comes into play with X +1/+1 counters.

When ~ comes into play, you may destroy target creature with CMC X or less.

1/1


I also liked a lot the Kithkin Pacifist and am thinking about no-untapping abilities. It feels the right way white should deal with big stuff. (like this format doesn't have StoP...)

Maybe something like:

Blinding Pegasus Raider WW

Flying
While this is tapped, creatures opponents control cannot untap.

2/1

[Anusien]

Green Green Beast - 3GGG
Creature - Beast
Green Green Beast cannot be countered by spells or abilities.
Green Green Beast has protected from converted mana cost 4 or less.
6/6

I'm actually really proud of this, although it may be a little too forceful in proclaiming what it does. Mistmeadow Skulk (and the Amrou creatures) used this ability or a form of it to be sneaky and avoid fights with things smaller than them. This is very "I want to play with big things, and if you're going to do it, you're going to do it on my terms" sort of card. Consequently I pushed the power as hard as I felt I could to see what kind of an extreme, well-costed giant creature you can make.

About the only thing this is actually vulnerable to is Wrath of God. I'm not sure there's an easy fix for that, nor sure whether there should be.

[Tenant_Tron]

Green Green Beast - 3GGG
Creature - Beast
Green Green Beast cannot be countered by spells or abilities.
Green Green Beast has protected from converted mana cost 4 or less.
6/6

I'm actually really proud of this, although it may be a little too forceful in proclaiming what it does. Mistmeadow Skulk (and the Amrou creatures) used this ability or a form of it to be sneaky and avoid fights with things smaller than them. This is very "I want to play with big things, and if you're going to do it, you're going to do it on my terms" sort of card. Consequently I pushed the power as hard as I felt I could to see what kind of an extreme, well-costed giant creature you can make.

About the only thing this is actually vulnerable to is Wrath of God. I'm not sure there's an easy fix for that, nor sure whether there should be.

That card is terrible, it costs GGG, which no decent deck can expect to pay, and it also costs 6, in a format where the game may not even go 6 turns. That card would be a dollar rare tops. I think you have a very limited grasp of the format, especially judging from your last few Unlocking Legacy articles with terrible decklists proposed...

[Anusien]

That card is terrible, it costs GGG, which no decent deck can expect to pay, and it also costs 6, in a format where the game may not even go 6 turns. That card would be a dollar rare tops. I think you have a very limited grasp of the format, especially judging from your last few Unlocking Legacy articles with terrible decklists proposed...
Thanks for the love :)
Obviously Tarmogoyf is way above the curve. It's difficult to make a man to fight Tarmogoyf head on in combat that is as cheap as he is, although I have a few suggestions on the first page. And obviously this guy can't fight Goyf on its, but Threshold literally can't beat it. If you start from the same position, about the only way Thresh can fight it is to get a 7/8 Goyf and race. A deck that other tools like Kitchen Finks could easily buy time for this guy to come out.

I could also imagine a vertical cycle of this guy, at 2 mana 2/2, 4 mana 4/4, 6 mana 6/6. You'd probably need to spice up the high end in order to accomplish this, since I don't think the guy as listed feels rare.

Also, any comment about my Unlocking Legacy articles should go to the appropriate forum threads, my PM box or my e-mail, but not this thread..

Edit: IBA actually hit the nose on this one. If you push exclusively aggressive creatures as a way to beat Goyf, you make the format more aggressive and fast, not less. Plus, the Goyf decks will just run the anti-Goyf card next to the Goyf. That's why a few of my solutions are defensive, because it avoids power creep.

[Tenant_Tron]

Thanks for the love :)
Obviously Tarmogoyf is way above the curve. It's difficult to make a man to fight Tarmogoyf head on in combat that is as cheap as he is, although I have a few suggestions on the first page. And obviously this guy can't fight Goyf on its, but Threshold literally can't beat it. If you start from the same position, about the only way Thresh can fight it is to get a 7/8 Goyf and race. A deck that other tools like Kitchen Finks could easily buy time for this guy to come out.

I could also imagine a vertical cycle of this guy, at 2 mana 2/2, 4 mana 4/4, 6 mana 6/6. You'd probably need to spice up the high end in order to accomplish this, since I don't think the guy as listed feels rare.

Also, any comment about my Unlocking Legacy articles should go to the appropriate forum threads, my PM box or my e-mail, but not this thread..

Edit: IBA actually hit the nose on this one. If you push exclusively aggressive creatures as a way to beat Goyf, you make the format more aggressive and fast, not less. Plus, the Goyf decks will just run the anti-Goyf card next to the Goyf. That's why a few of my solutions are defensive, because it avoids power creep.

All Im saying is good luck getting 3 of your 4 (maybe 5) green sources to stick AND 6 lands total in order to stick that guy before your opponent wins. If you lasted that long with the aggro-control deck you are probably playing then you are in fine shape anyways, and probably could just be sticking your own Goyf for 1G and casting other spells with that mana. All Im saying.

T.T

[Anusien]

All Im saying is good luck getting 3 of your 4 (maybe 5) green sources to stick AND 6 lands total in order to stick that guy before your opponent wins. If you lasted that long with the aggro-control deck you are probably playing then you are in fine shape anyways, and probably could just be sticking your own Goyf for 1G and casting other spells with that mana. All Im saying.

T.T
Maybe you're not playing this in a base blue deck? There's actually this dearth of Legacy playable creatures at greater than 4 mana. And I mean conceivably playable, not just "We'll play these." There are tons at 1-3, and at 4 you basically have Garruk, Ravenous Baloth and Loxodon Hierarch. The curve falls off rapidly from there. It wouldn't be unreasonable for a deck to go turn 1 Search for Tomorrow, turn 2 Edict, turn 3 Deed, turn 4 blow Deed, turn 5 this and easily win. Or using a less contrived example, turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 wall of roots, turn 3 goyf + removal, turn 4 kill a guy or two, turn 5 this. While I don't think Survival decks would kill for this, there have been decks that wanted a guy that could trump Goyf at any cost.

Plus, it's not a half-bad reanimation target, in the situations where Akroma just eats an StP.

[Tenant_Tron]

Maybe you're not playing this in a base blue deck? There's actually this dearth of Legacy playable creatures at greater than 4 mana. And I mean conceivably playable, not just "We'll play these." There are tons at 1-3, and at 4 you basically have Garruk, Ravenous Baloth and Loxodon Hierarch. The curve falls off rapidly from there. It wouldn't be unreasonable for a deck to go turn 1 Search for Tomorrow, turn 2 Edict, turn 3 Deed, turn 4 blow Deed, turn 5 this and easily win. Or using a less contrived example, turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 wall of roots, turn 3 goyf + removal, turn 4 kill a guy or two, turn 5 this. While I don't think Survival decks would kill for this, there have been decks that wanted a guy that could trump Goyf at any cost.

Plus, it's not a half-bad reanimation target, in the situations where Akroma just eats an StP.

Yes that would be entirely unreasonable, because those cards you listed and the strategy itself has proven awful in Legacy since its inception. Even in a rock deck, which has been doing well recently, you would not play that 6 drop, you would probably play Spiritmonger, or Hierarch like you mentioned. Hell Gigapede/Eternal Dragon are much better. Anything is better. Or you could just play a good and established deck rather than green aggro or "rock".

T.T

[Phantom]

Krosan Adder
1:g::g:
Split Second
Death Touch
Shroud
2/1

[Lego]

About the only thing this is actually vulnerable to is Wrath of God. I'm not sure there's an easy fix for that, nor sure whether there should be.

Give him Shroud and Persist and you're good-to-go.

[Anusien]

Yes that would be entirely unreasonable, because those cards you listed and the strategy itself has proven awful in Legacy since its inception. Even in a rock deck, which has been doing well recently, you would not play that 6 drop, you would probably play Spiritmonger, or Hierarch like you mentioned. Hell Gigapede/Eternal Dragon are much better. Anything is better. Or you could just play a good and established deck rather than green aggro or "rock".
Spiritmonger dies to StP. Just saying.
Anyway, the point isn't, "What card can we print that can make Threshold better?" In fact that's the exact opposite of what we're looking for. "Traditionally" aka according to the Metagame Clock, board control decks SHOULD beat aggro-control decks. A large part of the reason why they don't is that board control doesn't have any better threats than aggro-control. In the way that the slower Zoo deck is supposed to win, board-control decks traditionally play some giant man that trades for two aggro-control spells and gets ahead that way. In a world where Tarmogoyf exists, this is less true. Hence the intent of the card is to trump Tarmogoyf and restore the balance. It's vulnerable to pure control which is fine and expected, but basically can't get trumped by a single FoW or StP.
If I could survive to drop this guy, I'd much rather play him than Hierarch. Of course, I'd rather Finks than Hierarch too, so it's hard to say. It's certain that Finks helps buy time to play this guy. It's no immediately clear whether this guy or Spiritmonger is better, but that this guy can beat a Daze and an StP seems good enough for me.

Edit: Phantom: I posted a guy similar to that. Look into Provoke. Small creatures that have the potential to kill a Goyf are sort of mediocre because they just don't block and then race. Maybe give him an untap effect instead of Shroud? What about "1B, Q: This gains Deathtouch" and take it off the main ability?

[quicksilver]

RB
When ~this~ comes into play, destroy all creatures with power greater than the number of lands that creatures controler controls that have a basic land type that could produce mana of a color equal to the creature's color.
2/1

Man I tried hard, but this is actually a fairly simple effect, but I cannot word it properly? Anyone else think they could word this better?

Pretty much what it does is it destroys all creatures with power greater than the number of lands that share a basic land type with the color of that creature. So like if you have a 4 power green creature out and say a trop and a forest, then the creautre will die. If you have a blue white creature out with 3 power and you have a plains island and tundra, then it would live. Now that same creature and you had a plains tundra and swamp out it would die.

[Phantom]

Edit: Phantom: I posted a guy similar to that. Look into Provoke. Small creatures that have the potential to kill a Goyf are sort of mediocre because they just don't block and then race. Maybe give him an untap effect instead of Shroud? What about "1B, Q: This gains Deathtouch" and take it off the main ability?

Bah. I meant to give him Flash (forgot that wasn't included in Split Second from too many Krosan Grip/Sulfur Elemental castings). Basically this makes him an unstoppable removal spell (aGAINST NON FLYERS) that can occasionally be useful on the offensive. I'd like hime better with half-shroud, but I'm not sure if he'd be insanely overpowered in that case (basically Troll Ascetic with -1/-1 and no regen in exchange for Deathtouch and Split Second). Hmmm.

[Jaiminho]

1BB
Deathtouch, Persist
When ~ is removed from the game from play, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it into play under it's owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.
2/3

That RFG persist thing is kinda strange... "removed from the game from play". Worded without "from play" would be the same as "from anywhere"? Anyway, it kills things in combat, isn't the worst clock ever and STP triggers a persist-like ability.

[Anusien]

1BB
Deathtouch, Persist
When ~ is removed from the game from play, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it into play under it's owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.
2/3

That RFG persist thing is kinda strange... "removed from the game from play". Worded without "from play" would be the same as "from anywhere"? Anyway, it kills things in combat, isn't the worst clock ever and STP triggers a persist-like ability.
Pretty sure Wizards intentionally wants removing from the game to be one of the viable ways to kill such a thing. With just triggering from RFG, this is so fundamentally narrow as probably to be unprintable, especially with Persist in the environment.

Edit: Phantom: I'd leave him as Shroud, since that lets you keep the mana cost low. It's not a creature you want to equip anyway. But you do realize you've basically printed

SURPRISE! - {1}{G}{G}
Instant
Split Second
Destroy target attacking creature

right? Like yes, it's a guy and can occasionally be cool, but would you be excited to play that spell? In a lot of cases this is going to be a worse Sudden Spoiling, and we already don't play that.

P.S.: Lego_Army_Man: Persist is some good on a 2/1 I hear!

[Phantom]

Edit: Phantom: I'd leave him as Shroud, since that lets you keep the mana cost low. It's not a creature you want to equip anyway. But you do realize you've basically printed

SURPRISE! - {1}{G}{G}
Instant
Split Second
Destroy target attacking creature

right? Like yes, it's a guy and can occasionally be cool, but would you be excited to play that spell? In a lot of cases this is going to be a worse Sudden Spoiling, and we already don't play that.


I don't see the comparison, as sudden spoiling requires another card (be it burn or blocker) to kill a creature, and that other card or spell can be removed or countered. PLUS, you can't begin to compare removal in green to removal in black.

You are however correct about the unexciting nature of the beast, which is why I tried to make it almost like ESG. If it's not useful for its primary objective, just drop it and beat away. Half Shroud I feel would make it nice but possibly 4cc, which is unacceptable in a world where Goyf costs 2.

I'm thinking of maybe bringing back the Autumn Willow effect. So it would be:

Krosan Adder
1:g::g:
Split Second
Flash
Death Touch
Shroud
G: Krosan Adder loses Shroud until end of turn.
2/1

Probably way too much for one creature.

[Nihil Credo]

RB
When ~this~ comes into play, destroy all creatures with power greater than the number of lands that creatures controler controls that have a basic land type that could produce mana of a color equal to the creature's color.
2/1
Just make it "When CIP, destroy all creatures with power greater than the number of lands their controller controls". It's already powerful, but your first version will be a Wrath of God way too often: certainly in T2/Block where lots of lands without basic land types are used, and even in Legacy/Ext it would punish very fair openings (Turn 4 Ravenous Baloth off a basic Plains and three duals lands? Sorry, broken. WTF?).

[Corg]

I'd sneak this one in as an uncommon in a removal-heavy set and see if anyone notices...

Corpseblade Knight
:b: :b:
Creature - Zombie Knight
Deathtouch
First Strike
2/1

[Wallace]

Look I can just quote myself from the last thread that asked this...



http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/Wally891/mongoose.jpg

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Smarmagoyf
1B
Creature- Assassin
Smarmagoyf Can't be countered.
When Smarmagoyf comes into play, destroy target creature with a name rhyming with Smarmagoyf.
2/2
"You know, I don't think they'll see what we did there." - Randy Buehler

[yawg07]

Smarmagoyf
1B
Creature- Assassin
Smarmagoyf Can't be countered.
When Smarmagoyf comes into play, destroy target creature with a name rhyming with Smarmagoyf.
2/2
"You know, I don't think they'll see what we did there." - Randy Buehler:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I think we have a winner!

[WiLdFiRe]

1BB
Creature - Hans
When ~ comes into play, destroy target creature with converted mana cost 3 or less.
Deathtouch
1/1
Just play smother, dumbasses

I like mine.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Yeah, I think they're sneaking this one into the next set.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1224/inconspicuousremovalspegu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[P-AiR]

Basenji
Creature - Hound
(2)R/B)(R/B)

Trample

When Basenji attacks it gets +2 / -2
When Basenji blocks it gets -2 / +2

3/3

"The Basenji Hounds get what they want, when they want."
Surzi
-Kithkin General

[Lego]

Yeah, I think they're sneaking this one into the next set.

How sad is it that that spell could actually see play?

[Captain_Morgan]

Scruffy, Custodial Arts Adept

Legendary Human Wizard Janitor

1C

Sacrifice: remove all graveyards from the game.

1/1

"When will people realize that size doesn't matter?"

-Scruffy to Urza


Throw damage on the stack, remove graveyards. Damage resolves, he's dead Jim.

[Mirrislegend]

Overenthusiastic Lobotomizer

Human Wizard

:w::u::b:

When Overenthusiastic Lobotomizer comes into play, name a non-land card.
The named card cannot come into play.

1/2


Amped up version of Meddling Mage, but more restrictive to play, and an undersized body for cost. Does the wording keep all storm copies from happening also? Cuz that's what I was going for

[Lego]

Amped up version of Meddling Mage, but more restrictive to play, and an undersized body for cost. Does the wording keep all storm copies from happening also? Cuz that's what I was going for

It doesn't even stop you from playing a spell unless it's a permanent. Name Swords to Plowshares if you like, but your opponent can still play it, since it never comes into play.

You've just created a worse Meddling Mage that stops Aether Vial, that's all. This would see absolutely no play :frown:

[Nihil Credo]

Fixed version:

As ~ comes into play, name a card.
If a spell or permanent with the chosen name would be put into play or on the stack, remove it from the game instead.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Although not a creature, I'd do something like this;

Death Howl :5::b:
Instant
Delve
Destroy target nonred creature. It can't be regenerated.

That can deal with alot of creatures, but not Goblins. Even if it's countered, Tarmogoyf may still shrink. Plus, the art would have awesome wolves on it.

[Happy Gilmore]

:u::u::w:

Creature- Merfolk Wizard

Return target non-land permanent to its owners hand.

When ___ comes into play name a card, that card cannot be played.

1/3

[SuckerPunch]

The thread had good suggestions early on.

But this page, most of the cards suggested so far have too high a cc and too low a power to ever ever see any play in aggressive decks.

So I think that defeats the point.

About the only card on this page that I would actually opt to play in a deck is "Inconspicious Removal Spell #5". That card definately has a ton of potential and I would have to grab like 16 copies.


Also, MM barely sees much play these days. So why would a higher cc worse version see more play?

[SuckerPunch]

I'd sneak this one in as an uncommon in a removal-heavy set and see if anyone notices...

Corpseblade Knight
:b: :b:
Creature - Zombie Knight
Deathtouch
First Strike
2/1

Now that would see mad amounts of play. :laugh:

So would Smother/Hans.

Add Provoke.

[Pringlesman]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d111/pringlesman/FTarmogoyf.jpg

I remember someone posting the text on this site, can't remember who.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Wow, that's exactly like my card earlier on the same damn page, only not at all funny.

[Phantom]

Although not a creature, I'd do something like this;

Death Howl :5::b:
Instant
Delve
Destroy target nonred creature. It can't be regenerated.

That can deal with alot of creatures, but not Goblins. Even if it's countered, Tarmogoyf may still shrink. Plus, the art would have awesome wolves on it.

I like this a lot. Delve is an underrated mechanic, and should be playable on more than 5/5 flyers.

[Damnosus]

To be honest I would be happy with a Stillmoon Cavalier with Pro: Green instead of Pro: black.....yea I play sui black...quit laughing...
:laugh:

[Kuma]

Goyfslayer Legionnaire :1::u::b:

Creature - Human Soldier

Protection from green, Deathtouch, Vigilance

2/2

Nullifies goyf on both offense and defense.

[yawg07]

Goyfslayer Legionnaire :1::u::b:

Creature - Human Soldier

Protection from green, Deathtouch, Vigilance

2/2

Nullifies goyf on both offense and defense.

Shit, I'd play that sucker.
And it is actually in color/flavor ... except maybe vigilance (no, Synchronous Sliver doesn't count), but we can overlook that :D

[Nihil Credo]

:u:: Untap Goyfslayer Legionnaire. Play this ability only once each turn.

The color pie is serious business.

[yawg07]

:u:: Untap Goyfslayer Legionnaire. Play this ability only once each turn.

The color pie is serious business.

There we go!
Damn, he's actually Thresh's worst nightmare, he kills Mongooses too.
That's where Swans comes in handy, though lol

[Kuma]

I thought about giving him some sort of untap ability instead, but went with vigilance because it was cleaner.

The difference between Vigilance and an ability like 0: Untap [cardname]. Use this ability only once each turn and whenever you could play a sorcery, is essentially nothing, yet no one would blink if one of these were on a blue card.

Nihil Credo's idea is fine, I'm just saying...

[Isamaru]

Yeah, I think they're sneaking this one into the next set.

Do you realize you can play your own Tarmogoyf and respond to it with this spell?

I can't believe this thread is 4 pages and even through all the jokes there are still very few realistic answers... It's actually kind of sad.

[Anusien]

Goyfslayer Legionnaire :1::u::b:

Creature - Human Soldier

Protection from green, Deathtouch, Vigilance

2/2

Nullifies goyf on both offense and defense.
Soldiers and Vigilance are both out of flavor for green. The U/B overlap rarely produces good offensive creatures; I believe you're looking for B/W.

[Kuma]

Yeah, probably. I originally made him that way, but changed it because I thought pro green would make more sense on a UB creature.

If soldier is the issue, he could be any creature type really.

[MattH]

This doesn't work with the rules at all. Making all players choose 1 for X is doable, but "*" doesn't exist in the rules. It's just a placeholder to let you know that a CDA defines the Power/Toughness.

For the purposes of this thread, we're in Design, not Development. They can either adjust the rules to let this work or find another wording; it ought to be doable.

New idea:

Cleric Banisher
:w: :b:
Creature -- Cleric
2/2
Whenever a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from play, you may search its controller's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that creature and remove them from the game. That player then shuffles his or her library.

Staples an Extirpate to all your Shriekmaws, FTKs, and such (or if you prefer, read it as upgrading your Terrors to Eradicates). If I am correct, and I think I am, this should also work whenever you kill an animated Factory. Punishes Thresh for only running a few creatures, and also can hurt against control decks. Extremely vicious in the mirror. Rewards decks with lots of different win conditions; punishes decks which try to be too consistent. Works well with Wrath effects, too. Might make Living Wish's stock go up a bit.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Do you realize you can play your own Tarmogoyf and respond to it with this spell?

I can't believe this thread is 4 pages and even through all the jokes there are still very few realistic answers... It's actually kind of sad.

Shit. Also doesn't deal with Blessing of Leeches.

Oh, here's one.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5167/vengefulgoatherdernn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Nihil Credo]

Cleric Banisher
:w: :b:
Creature -- Cleric
2/2
Whenever a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from play, you may search its controller's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that creature and remove them from the game. That player then shuffles his or her library.

I'd change it to "Whenever a spell or ability you control destroys a creature, you may (etc.)", and it would still be strong. As it is, it would trigger off combat damage as well, which is way too powerful. Even Goblins would have problems with this.

A different, interesting option is to make the ability symmetrical, which would be some serious fun.

[Lego]

For the purposes of this thread, we're in Design, not Development. They can either adjust the rules to let this work or find another wording; it ought to be doable.

I don't want to nitpick, but I really don't think so. "All creatures with characteristic defining abilities that set power and toughness are 1/1" doesn't seem so elegant.

[GreenOne]

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5167/vengefulgoatherdernn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I love this one!

[xsockmonkeyx]

Ive always wanted to see this printed...

Blacker Knight BB
First Strike, Protection from Green
2/2

...but it would be pretty weak sauce in Legacy. I like this one better:

Even Blacker Knight BB
Protection from White, Protection from Green
2/1

2/1 so at least Fanatic still trumps it. Anyway, something like that. A black bear that tackles and swings through Goyf, and has Pro: Swords.

Ive also always wanted to see Green Knight and Blue Knight too, just for kicks, but that aint happening.

[Varchild's Accountant]

Vengeful Archer – RWB
Card Type: Creature – Human Soldier Archer
P/T: 2/2

Double strike, vigilance

{T}: Mournful Archers deals damage to target attacking or blocking creature equal to the number of creature cards in all graveyards

“An eye for an eye, and the other because I can”

[Skeggi]

I can't believe this thread is 4 pages and even through all the jokes there are still very few realistic answers... It's actually kind of sad.

I totally agree, that's why you won't find me in this thread!





......oh crap

[Mirrislegend]

It doesn't even stop you from playing a spell unless it's a permanent. Name Swords to Plowshares if you like, but your opponent can still play it, since it never comes into play.

You've just created a worse Meddling Mage that stops Aether Vial, that's all. This would see absolutely no play :frown:

I was assuming that if you play something, it comes into play (and if something comes into play, it wasn't necessarily played :: all squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are necessarily squares)

Given that, I'd go for a creature with provoke and deathtouch. Make it a tiny body and cheap enough to be playable as a removal spell with summoning sickness. The option of a decent body and first strike, thus letting the creature survive combat, would drive the cost up way too high

[RoddyVR]

I'm not gonna try to make an actual card out of this, cause i wouldnt know how to cost/power it at all, but how about something similar to Aven Mindcensor, but for graveyards.

"If an effect an opponent controls would count cards in graveyards, it only counts the top 2 cards of those graveyards."

doesnt completely kill off goyfs, but makes them what they should have been, WAY smaller and easier to manipulate the size of.

[Skeggi]

"If an effect an opponent controls would count cards in graveyards, it only counts the top 2 cards of those graveyards."

That's the weirdest ability I've ever seen! Bravo! I salute you! :cool:

[GreenOne]

Ywihxylqid Jailer - 2B
Cards in graveyards lose all abilities and types.

Can you spell it?

2/1

It's way worse against Ichorid, but it's always bigger than Goyfs.

However it stops both academy ruins and life from the loam. Maybe it should either cost 1BB or be a 1/1.

[ParkerLewis]

Omniphage Frog 1B

0/6

At the beginning of your upkeep, choose one - remove one card from any player's graveyard from the game, or put a -1/-1 counter on target creature. If you do, put a +1/-1 counter on Omniphage Frog.

T, Sacrifice Omniphage Frog : Destroy target creature with toughness greater than Omniphage Frog's toughness.

"The living... the dead... trash... even itself. It feeds on anything. Hopefully, in an outburst of hunger, it sometimes eats more than it can withstand."

Fun and flavorful, but probably not playable by itself except for the "i'm ruining goyfs' lifes like no other"

or

Necrophage Shaman BB

2/1

Pay 1 life : Remove an instant, sorcery, or enchantment card from any player's graveyard from the game. If you do, put a +1/+0 counter on Gravefeeder.
Pay 1 life : Remove a creature, artifact, or land card from any player's graveyard from the game. If you do, put a +0/+1 counter on Gravefeeder.

"I hate sentient flesh."

This one, on the other hand, might be playable. If you're ready to spend a few life, you can actively reduce goyfs' size, while increasing your Shaman at the same time. For example, he could usually read BB - Pay 5 life - 4/4 - All goyfs get -3/-3.

[Barook]

Greedy Zombie :b::b:
Creature - Zombie
Fear
Whenever Greedy Zombie deals combat damage to a player, remove that player's graveyard from the game.
When Greedy Zombie is put into a graveyard from play, remove its controller's graveyard from the game.
2/1

Depending on its power level, you can also add "Greedy Zombie can't block", which is quite common among such creatures with that CC. However, it would ruin the purpose of probably weakening Goyf when it's blocked by it.

Edit: Imho a improved design to combat Goyf while being more useful on its own:

Gluttony :b::b:
Legendary Creature - Zombie
Whenever Gluttony deals combat damage to a player, remove that player's graveyard from the game.

Remove a card in your graveyard from the game: Gluttony gains fear until end of turn.
:b:, discard a card: Gluttony gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
:b:, remove two cards in your graveyard from the game: Regenerate Gluttony.
2/1