Legacy Worlds 08! (sort of)

[yawg07]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=events/magic/worlds08-format

Format
> Individual formats: Standard, Booster Draft, and Extended
> National Team format: 3-Person Team Constructed
> Only complete National teams with 3 members will compete in the Team competition
> Each team member will choose a different format to play for the entire Team Competition: Standard, Extended, Legacy
> When teams compete, each team member will be paired against an opponent with the same format deck.

Click that link and read. Also, more info here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=events/magic/worlds
Also, a link for prizes (wow, what a payout!) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=events/magic/worlds08-prizes

[Frenger]

At least they're doing something with legacy. I'm still not too happy though since we dont have a GP.

[Slag]

That's a clever idea. I think it would be fun to run a team tournament format like that for normal people to attend.

[freakish777]

Wait, is this the same as the Team Constructed formats where you can have at max 4 of a card across all 3 decks?

If so, that's hilarious! Do the Goyfs/Counterbalances/Confidants/Tops go in the Extended Deck or the Legacy deck? Do the Cryptic Commands/Garruks go in the Extended deck or Standard deck? Do the Thoughtseizes go in the Standard deck, Extended Deck, or the Legacy deck?

^_^


EDIT: I can't view any Wizards sites at the new job (hence the question if the answer's already in the link)

[Pinder]

I'm actually pretty excited about this. Between the Legacy portion of last year's Worlds and this, it seems like Wizards is trying to get more Legacy coverage at the upper levels.

Of course, we'll have to see if any of the national teams actually picks Legacy.

[Roman Candle]

I'm actually pretty excited about this. Between the Legacy portion of last year's Worlds and this, it seems like Wizards is trying to get more Legacy coverage at the upper levels.

Of course, we'll have to see if any of the national teams actually picks Legacy.

I think each team has to have one member playing Legacy. Or that was my understanding, anyway.

[goobafish]

Each team member will choose a different format to play for the entire Team Competition: Standard, Extended, Legacy When teams compete, each team member will be paired against an opponent with the same format deck.

Teams don't pick Legacy. All teams need to have a Legacy player. This will be awesome.

Edit: Ninjaed

[Pinder]

Oh.

Then this is awesome.

[ChiiMagic]

Teams don't pick Legacy. All teams need to have a Legacy player. This will be awesome.

Edit: Ninjaed

I agree. My understanding of this is that one player from each team will be playing a standard deck, another will be playing an extended deck, and the last will be playing legacy. It will be interesting to see if the 4 card max per team rule applies, but with such large card pools, it will be easy to simply play another Tier 1 deck from that format.

[Anusien]

Yes, Unified Deck Construction rules are in effect. 4 Tarmogoyfs total for 3 players. 1 Standard, 1 Extended, 1 Legacy player per team.

[Jak]

That just made the whole thing lame.

[Illissius]

This is awesome. The 4 cards restriction won't be all that restrictive, I think. Just play your Legacy and Extended decks in different colors, problem solved. Could still be problematic: Fetchlands, Ichorid hate. Tarmogoyf isn't as (as) great in Standard; will it still even be in the format, or will Shards have rotated Time Spiral block out by then?

[Phantom]

This is why they need documentary crews filming all the English speaking worlds teams at all times. I would be really interested to see the thought process that goes into all this.

[Frenger]

Yes, Unified Deck Construction rules are in effect. 4 Tarmogoyfs total for 3 players. 1 Standard, 1 Extended, 1 Legacy player per team.

Huh, that makes things interesting. Fetches and goyfs between the legacy and extended decks will be interesting.

[Brushwagg]

There's good decks in legacy that don't run Goyf, Counterbalance or Top. So I think I'd give the Goyfs, CB and Tops to the Extended deck.

[Whit3 Ghost]

There's good decks in legacy that don't run Goyf, Counterbalance or Top. So I think I'd give the Goyfs, CB and Tops to the Extended deck.
I would definitely expect a lot of Tendrils, Goblins and Ichorid on the Legacy side of things.

[Anusien]

This is post-rotation in Extended (Shards comes out in October I think, Worlds is in December).

[Pinder]

This is post-rotation in Extended (Shards comes out in October I think, Worlds is in December).

Oh, well then the Legacy players will have dibs on all the (at that point, pretty cheap) fetches, then.

[Jaiminho]

Oh, well then the Legacy players will have dibs on all the (at that point, pretty cheap) fetches, then.

Those that aren't rotating out, you mean?

[DeathwingZERO]

Man, that would be pretty awesome to play in. Pretty sure we'll be seeing Ichorid show up quite a bit in either Legacy or Extended.

[Nihil Credo]

Yes, Unified Deck Construction rules are in effect.Source? I think that's a terrible idea.

[Illissius]

I thought only Invasion block was rotating from Extended?

[Eldariel]

Invasion, Odyssey and 7th rotate. That leaves fetch/shock manabases intact along with the Tarmogoyfs. Still, both Extended and Legacy have so many solid decks without either that there should be little problems with the overlapping. Any combo-deck, for example, is going to have 0 impact on Extended, and if Extended and Legacy just play different color combinations, the overlaps are likewise averted. Standard has Red Decks which again will overlap not-at-all with either Legacy or Extended, making the whole thing really easy to set up (even with archetype preferences colliding).

[Peter_Rotten]

Save the Goyfs for Extended and play storm combo in Legacy.

/2cents

[Illissius]

Of course, the pros will figure out what the 'obvious' archetypes to choose for each format are, and then metagame against them; and then metagame against the metagaming; so there will be a good amount of second, third, and Nth-degree guessing going on.

I know that the original plan for Extended was that it was to be rotated several blocks at a time, infrequently, but that they changed their mind so that instead it rotates one block at a time every year; but in any case, that this meant there would be fewer blocks rotating out this time than previously planned. So if Invasion and Odyssey rotating is the new plan, then the old plan also had Onslaught?

[Eldariel]

Now they're bringing it in synch with Standard rotations. The old plan had Onslaught rotating with this (Extended rotated every 3 years previously). Now they rotate it one block at a time; this is used to bring it to the permanent size of 7 sets (they felt 8 was a bit too much and 6 too few - it fluctuated between the two previously - so they forced it to 7). As a bonus, we get Fetchlands for one more year, so for one more year, I'll be playing Extended (with a mono-colored deck, of course, but build to prey on all the multicolour nonsense fetches induce).

[Illissius]

So... this means Dredge is much less of a factor in the new Extended, so graveyard hate is going to be freed up for use in Legacy, so you shouldn't play Ichorid in Legacy -- unless you're double guessing everyone else who came to this same conclusion.

Hmm. Counterspell is also rotating, so that probably hurts Level Blue a lot. Anyways, only having a vague picture of what was good in Extended previously, and not having much idea of what still will be, makes it difficult for me to brainstorm good combinations of Legacy and Extended decks.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Faerie Stompy, Ichorid, and Reveillark. However any one of those could be switched to any Storm.

[Nihil Credo]

Let's not forget what Shards of Alara throws in the mix. The Standard format is a complete crapshoot for now, and SoA will probably have a significant effect on Extended as well.

Also, if the "cycle" keeps going on (there's little reason why it should, but hey, predictions are fun)

Urza : Mirrodin = broken block
Masques: Kamigawa = shit block
Invasion : Ravnica = awesome gold block
Odyssey : Time Spiral = weird block
Onslaught : Lorwyn/Shadowmoor = tribal block

then SoA should be another broken block...

[GreenOne]

You can play a good number of decks in legacy without ruining the other format's card pool:
Belcher, TES, Ichorid, Goblins (beside the fetches), Faerie Stompy, Imperial Painter, Burn etc.

You can also run Affinity in EXT and play whatever you want in the other formats :tongue:

I like when Wizards makes people play our format.

[Illissius]

Maybe the Four Tarmogoyfs Total restriction will actually get some people to play decks in Legacy besides Threshold -- though in all likelihood it will just get them to play Goblins.

[Nihil Credo]

More likely Landstill. Landstill has very little from Onslaught onward: pretty much just the blue fetches and Engineered Explosives, plus some 1-2 ofs like Spell Snare, Stifle or Tombstalker.

[Citrus-God]

More likely Landstill. Landstill has very little from Onslaught onward: pretty much just the blue fetches and Engineered Explosives, plus some 1-2 ofs like Spell Snare, Stifle or Tombstalker.

Landstill also has Decree of Justice and Eternal Dragon from Onslaught... if that's worth anything...

[thefreakaccident]

The restriction of card choices along the 3 formats means no two teammates can play faeries :frown: ... as faeries was pushing NLB out of extended near the end of the season, and faeries is and will remain the top deck in standard for while... (well, without ancestral soon, this may not be so).



I would just play:

standard- faeries

extended- tron (UW... I prefer it for some reason Doj just turns me on)

legacy- whatever you please (the other two do not interfere, while maintaining competitiveness throughout all three formats :laugh: )

[TeKo]

T2 Deus.dec kicks Faerie and Merfolk asses

EXT Affinity

T1.5 UWb Lanstill or TES if you play Affinity without Mox

[etrigan]

Aren't we still waiting for:


Source? I think that's a terrible idea.

[thefreakaccident]

T2 Deus.dec kicks Faerie and Merfolk asses

EXT Affinity

T1.5 UWb Lanstill or TES if you play Affinity without Mox



Deus ramp sucks it up for the most part against agro, and looses to board control... if you are playing faeries, and make it to round 3... you will probably not play against GW, at least not in my meta...

Affinity is strong

I would agree on playing landstill, UWb has game against most things....


Either that or agro-loam, which just doesn't give the opponent a chance some times (as well as not being too stressful to pilot).

[yawg07]

They SO should have have 4 player teams and included Vintage :wink:

[DeathwingZERO]

They SO should have have 4 player teams and included Vintage :wink:

Second.

What are the good combo decks for Extended and Standard now? TEPS will rotate out due to all the Invasion sac lands and Burning Wish leaving with Judgment, and Standard will lose TPS block before this, correct? That means no Dragonstorm (even though it's been on a steady decline/dead for a while).

Anything viable popped up in the meantime?

EDIT: Hell, my two cents:
Legacy- Aggro Loam
Extended- Dredge
Standard- Mono-Red

EDIT(2): Wait, I just realized something. Dredge loses practically it's entire engine in Extended. Breakthrough, Sage, Coliseum, Careful Study, and Therapy are all gone. Aggro Loam also loses out on a ton if it went to an Extended port post-rotation.

Maybe:
Legacy- Ichorid
Extended- UW Tron
Standard: Mono-Red

[Illissius]

Hell, you could play Mono Red in all three formats (meaning Goblins in Legacy) and the only real conflict would be Mogg Fanatic and Incinerate.

[Lego]

Anything viable popped up in the meantime?

For Standard? Reveillark and some terrible Swath Storm deck are the only real combo that I know of. Lark with Greater Gargadon is actually playable.


EDIT(2): Wait, I just realized something. Dredge loses practically it's entire engine in Extended. Breakthrough, Sage, Coliseum, Careful Study, and Therapy are all gone.

You would have to play the Standard type engine with dudes that let you draw/discard like Magus of the Bazaar. Doesn't seem too hot though.

Mono-Red is probably a good choice in Standard. Splash green for Tarmogoyf is good too, if you happen to not be playing it in other formats. Faeries is still good, there's a good Garruk Elf deck, or some other variation on a Chameleon Colossus deck, and I'm sure there's still a Makeshift Mannequin deck to be built.

[Nihil Credo]

Swans + Assault is also very strong in Standard, but that's moot as Dakmor Salvage rotates out with Shards of Alara. Then again, so do Pyromancer's Swath and Body Double.

In fact, you know what? Let's stop talking about Standard altogether. It'll be a whole different beast by the time Worlds teams have to build their ridiculous 180-card decks.

[freakish777]

They SO should have have 4 player teams and included Vintage :wink:


This would actually be awful, since only 1 of the players (assuming they're following Team Constructed Rules) could run their set of Force of Wills... basically it means you automatically have a less than 50% chance your opponent has Force in their deck (less than 20% in their opener) in either format (assuming a 50/50 distribution, half going Legacy with Forces, half going Vintage).

Combo would get quite the boost.

[Anusien]

Source? I think that's a terrible idea.
Can't believe no one else bothered to post this over the weekend:

National Team format: 3-Person Team Constructed

From the Floor Rules:

145. Team Constructed Tournaments
Event results for all DCI-sanctioned team Constructed tournaments (Vintage, Legacy, Extended, and Standard) are merged into one set of Constructed ratings for each team size.

Team tournaments using any DCI-sanctioned Constructed format must adhere to all applicable sections of the Magic DCI Floor Rules and DCI Universal Tournament Rules for Constructed tournaments.

Team Constructed tournaments use Unified Deck Construction rules: With the exception of basic land cards, a team’s combined decks and sideboards may not contain more than four of any individual card, counted by its English card title. (For example, if one player has four main-deck copies of Naturalize in a Team Constructed event, no other player on that team may have a Naturalize in his or her deck or sideboard.) If a card is restricted in a particular format, no more than one of that card may be used by the team. No players may use cards that are banned in a particular format.

Edit: I'm following up with a highly placed source within the Wizards organization. My source suggests that UDC rules may not be in effect, will find out more.

[DeathwingZERO]

This would actually be awful, since only 1 of the players (assuming they're following Team Constructed Rules) could run their set of Force of Wills... basically it means you automatically have a less than 50% chance your opponent has Force in their deck (less than 20% in their opener) in either format (assuming a 50/50 distribution, half going Legacy with Forces, half going Vintage).

Combo would get quite the boost.

Seeing as both formats hold a variety of both combo and control style decks that don't need FoW, I don't see that making it a terrible idea. The only reason I could see it being bad is the fact that they'd either have to allow proxies, or players would have to cough up a couple grand to get their fully powered decks together. Ouch.

[Nihil Credo]

@Anusien: Ty. I'll cling to the hope that they later clarify that this multi-format event is an exception to that rule.

@DW0: The reason it would be bad is that the high number of FoWs in any metagame is what keeps combo in check, both in Legacy and ESPECIALLY in Vintage. Force people to use 4 FoWs between formats and you just halved that number and probably condemned a lot of players to eat a turn 1 Tendrils on the play.

[freakish777]

control style decks that don't need FoW

Purely hypothetically, assume all the teams at Worlds are sponsered by a card shop and can borrow the power. What "control style" decks are you talking about that actually beat Combo without Force (especially in Vintage)? Stax (in Vintage it goes down to 1 Trini, and dies like everyone else without FoW to "Kill you turn 1" and when it doesn't have a clock besides Welder still succumbs to "Play my City of Brass, pitch ESG, Hurkyl's Recall you, Lotus, Wheel of Fortune/Twister/Yawg Win, proceed to kill you")?

[Anusien]

I was wrong. [O]fficially, Unified Deck Construction rules only apply if it's the same format across all players.


Purely hypothetically, assume all the teams at Worlds are sponsered by a card shop and can borrow the power. What "control style" decks are you talking about that actually beat Combo without Force (especially in Vintage)? Stax (in Vintage it goes down to 1 Trini, and dies like everyone else without FoW to "Kill you turn 1" and when it doesn't have a clock besides Welder still succumbs to "Play my City of Brass, pitch ESG, Hurkyl's Recall you, Lotus, Wheel of Fortune/Twister/Yawg Win, proceed to kill you")?
The turn 1 kill basically doesn't happen any more. Stax can beat the 1 FoW draw, especially in a world where they have two lock pieces to play on turn 1 (Shop->Resistor, Chalice go). Note the trend of combo decks cutting Lion's Eye Diamond and going to a turn 2-4 kill instead of turn 1-3. Plus modern Vintage Stax decks don't tend to have Goblin Welder anyway, most of them have Juggernaut to supplement Karn. If you're really worried about Hurkyl's Recall/Rebuild, you can just run Tangle Wire or In the Eye of Chaos. Not that modern combo decks still really run Elvish Spirit Guide or City of Brass. Even the LSV-style pure combo dceks don't have ESG, and they go to a more TPS style deck to beat Stax.

[Nihil Credo]

I was wrong. [O]fficially, Unified Deck Construction rules only apply if it's the same format across all players.
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1417/bm24np2js1.gif

[Anusien]

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1417/bm24np2js1.gif
The rules would have raised some interesting questions as written, like "Can the Legacy decks run Aether Vial or Disciple of the Vault" which suggests that the rules weren't built for multiple formats. If they did use UDC rules, Vintage/Legacy/Extended would have 1 Lotus Petal and 0 Aether Vial across all three decks. So yeah, I think it's less interesting but probably better representing Legacy this way.