[Deck] Mesmeric Gaea's

[stalkerzero]

This is an old deck name that I cannot find a more recent list than 2006 for. It's probably because it's not the most solid of decks but since I apparently love taking old semi-successful decks and making newer versions...here's my go at it.

Mesmeric Gaea's
Mesmeric Orb x4
Tanglewire x4
Feldon's cane x2
Gaea's Blessing x3
Copy Artifact x4
Brainstorm x4
Ponder x4
Force of Will x4
Sensei's Divining Top x3
Counterbalance x3
Remand x3
Counterspell x4
Flooded Strandx3
Polluted Deltax3
Islandx12

Sideboard:
Stiflex3
Trickbindx3



The sideboard will need to have a lot of Gaea's Blessing hate (as it's easy to pop one in a deck and do the same thing this deck is attempting to do) and other than that I'm not really sure on it. Pithing Needle doesn't seem like a bad sideboard card.
__________________

[stalkerzero]

I know that deck. It most likely needs an update but see this link:

It is U/R.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/gpbarc06/welcome#9

That's the first place I found the deck list. I wish the player who ran it at my store would pop back up so I could ask about his build.

I'm not really sure how mono-blue works out here. It's essentially an all artifact based combo but the copy artifacts are pretty much necessary. Having one Orb in play is great. But having three to four is much preferred of course.

Not really sure what I want to do with this entirely.

Realistically the deck list for now is:
4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Tangle Wire
4x Copy Artifact
2-4 Gaea's Blessing
1-4 Feldon's Cane

And most likely a Crucible of Worlds or two.

Edit: After a bit of thinking on the deck I think one of the strongest points of it is that it's not especially weak against a lot of the common sideboard cards in Legacy. Needle does nothing to the orbs/wires. Chalice at 0/1 is fairly useless and at 2 it'll take them a while to get it out and it'll hurt them just as much most likely. Engineered Explosives is pretty dangerous. Choke is well, just a nightmare possibly or possibly means nothing (depends on what you already have in play). Krosan Grips of course can wreck it pretty bad in multiples but seeing one shouldn't be too game shattering.

[solidarity!]

noooo its back!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The old lists tended to run mana short to tap land and then mesmeric goes at it when they untap

And sculpting steel to copy mesmeric orb.

4 mesmeric orb
4 tangle wire
4 brainstorm
4 sculpting steel
4 force of will

I think this is a must that needs to go in , or maybe sculoting steel debate.

And you need something for gaeas blessing since the painter! has arrived.

the things i see for the deck is aggro i think it has a bad matchup against it.

So maybe propoganda'? or sometihing.

[stalkerzero]

noooo its back!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The old lists tended to run mana short to tap land and then mesmeric goes at it when they untap

And sculpting steel to copy mesmeric orb.

4 mesmeric orb
4 tangle wire
4 brainstorm
4 sculpting steel
4 force of will

I think this is a must that needs to go in , or maybe sculoting steel debate.

And you need something for gaeas blessing since the painter! has arrived.

the things i see for the deck is aggro i think it has a bad matchup against it.

So maybe propoganda'? or sometihing.

I figured I'd wind up running stifles/trickbinds and propaganda in the side board. I have yet to see a Painter deck at the shop but I have seen random sideboards with Gaea's Blessing in them.

I'm still not really sure Propaganda is going to be enough against goblins (or even thresh to an extent). Usually I see one to two Goblins decks and one Threshold deck at a tournament so I'm not sure how badly I should stress over being able to beat them.

Eventually, ideally, I'd like to develop this in to multi-colored if it's a fun/semi-competitive deck. UW, UG, UB seem like the best choices. UB seems strongest with Extirpate, some creature removal options, and Dash Hopes. UW has disenchants, swords, Wrath, and Orim's Chant. UG has Krosan Grip.

[Wereodile]

Is there a good way of making sure all of your opponents permanents are tapped during their upkeep to get the maximum out of the Orb?

I have never seen this deck before but I am pretty intrigued, especially a U/B build. Does anyone have a deck list for a U/B Build?

[Guevera59]

Frozen Aether anyone??

[stalkerzero]

Is there a good way of making sure all of your opponents permanents are tapped during their upkeep to get the maximum out of the Orb?

I have never seen this deck before but I am pretty intrigued, especially a U/B build. Does anyone have a deck list for a U/B Build?

The original deck that I played I do believe was UB. I'm trying to track down the person I played against to get his list.

I'm still not really sure about counter/top here. I can't decide if I want it in there because it's good and viable or if I just think it's a broken combination of cards and want to see it in all my decks.

I keep bouncing between trying mono-black or mono-blue. Blue's main advantage I think is that I have the Copy Artifacts already (but not the Sculpting Steels) and that they cost 1 less than Copy Artifact (ideally I wouldn't mind running both).

Frozen Aether seems pretty decent but I'm not sure that 4 mana cost is going to be fast enough to make a huge impact with no mana acceleration. Tangle Wire is a pretty solid card to use to keep as much as possible tapped. In the games I played most often he used the copying cards on Tangle Wires. Mana Short is definitely a strong, strong spell in here though.

[4eak]

I remember the first time I saw Mesmeric Orb. I thought it was an odd card =).. After looking back at it again, I have to say: I don't think this card is competitive or ever will be unless some insanely good card is made for specifically for it.

Probably the best deck that plays 4x Mesmeric Orbs in it would be a tier 1 deck that is watered down:

Creatures//29
2 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Artifacts//8
4 Aether Vial
4 Mesmeric Orb (yay)

Land//23
4 Bloodstained Mire
5 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

This is an extreme example, but it demonstrates the principle. In a competitive setting, I'd rather open a 6-card goblin hand 40% of the time (and play regular goblin openings the other 60%) than play any deck that actually revolves around Mesmeric Orb.

The fact is that decks are rarely based upon a single card; the exceptions usually include cards that win here and now: storm cards or flash. Basing a deck around a single card that doesn't win the game 'now' is generally just a bad idea; permission and disruption are too strong against a deck that relies too heavily upon a single card that doesn't just flat win the game now. Mesmeric orb doesn't win the game 'now', and this is a real problem for the deckbuilder that wants to do anything unique and specific with Mesmeric orb.

I find that a mesmeric orb deck is warped around the orb card to the point that the deck just falls apart unless you resolve a mesmeric orb and two others pieces and manage to live to play for another 5 turns.

Maybe, instead of watering down another deck, we combine mesmeric orb with other combo ideas?

We could consider:

Counter/Top
Stasis Shel;
Painter Combo

But, this really goes towards that slippery slope where the deck eventually wants to evolve into other current archetypes. We really need to ask: is this deck winning because of mesmeric orb or because of those other combos (stasis might be a poor example, but you get the picture).

Even though it is unlikely mesmeric orb will ever be competitive, what if we wanted to build the best possible deck based upon mesmeric orb? I think this is a fun experiment. It isn't going to be the best deck in a format, but it is the best that a deck can be built around a specific card.

Given what I've said above, here is my shot at a mesmeric orb deck in the context of simply trying to build a deck that just wins based upon mesmeric orb:

// Lands//25
12 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Maze of Ith
1 Tropical Island
4 Tundra

// Enchantments//7
3 Copy Artifact
4 Propaganda

// Spells//20
3 Counterspell
2 Energy Arc
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Gaea's Blessing
4 Brainstorm

// Artifacts//8
4 Mesmeric Orb
4 Tangle Wire


peace,
4eak

[Wereodile]

Thanks for the deck lists 4eak. This sounds like it's going to fit in nicely at my Saturday Legacy casual group.

Cheers to Stalkerzero for digging this up as well.

[stalkerzero]

I really like your deck list as it has something that my counter/top list doesn't: answers to problems not just praying counters take care of the issues before they become problems. If I had the lands for it, I'd give it a shot. But for now I may have to stay mono-colored.

Please let me know how it does if you do play it casually. Testing on MWS really isn't an option much for me so I still have yet to do anything but fish the deck.

[Wereodile]

Alright I am going to post the list I have been kicking around. I do not own alot of cards (as in Duals and Fetches) so I have put this together with what I got. I guess you could deem this a Budget list if you will. I really wanted to put some ponders in here in place of the Tomod's Crypt but our play group is very graveyard based



//Artifacts//15

4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Tangle Wire
4x Sculpting Steel
2x Tomod's Crypt
1x Feldon's Cane

// Enchantments//4

4x Propaganda

//Spells//20

4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
3x Gaea's Blessing
3x Counterspell
2x Energy Arc
2x Remand
2x Force of Will


//Land//24

9x Island
4x Plains
3x Ancient Tomb
3x Maze of Ith
3x Nimbus Maze
1x Breeding Pool

[Wereodile]

I should mention that most of my Legacy play consists of Multiplayer and the litany of variants we try.

[stalkerzero]

I should mention that most of my Legacy play consists of Multiplayer and the litany of variants we try.

Any play testing results would be great to hear. I'm looking at playing a really bad deck list of this tomorrow (if we can get 8 people to the shop - gencon is kind of ruining my chances of that though).

[Wereodile]

I should be Testing this tommorrow. I am think about squeezing a couple Chronomantic Escape to give me a little more protection.

The other thing I was thinking about was maybe combining the Orb combo with Solitary Confinement and really lock things down but I am having trouble thinking of suitable ways of drawing cards within this deck list.

[stalkerzero]

Finished 2-2 tonight in a 14 person tournament with this list:

4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Tangle Wire
3x Copy Artifact

4x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Force of Will
1x Delay
1x Rune Snag
1x Spell Snare
2x Daze
2x Counterspell
1x Mana Leak

3x Wipe Away
3x Trick Bind
1x Mana Short
3x Gaea's Blessing

18x Island
1x Polluted Delta
1x Ancient Tomb

Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
3x Propaganda
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Rune Snag
Cards just thrown in sideboard but not used:
1x Arcane Denial
1x Null Rod
4x Snakeform
1x Brain Freeze
1x Pact of Negation
1x Boomerang

Match 1: White Stax 2-1
Early Orbs and Tangle Wires backed by the heavy counters won the match 2-1 without breaking a sweat either of the win games.

Match 2: Counterslivers 2-1
What I assumed would be one of my worst match ups - control/aggro. Propaganda and Tangle Wire took the games home though.

Match 3: Wizards Aggro 0-2
Game 1: Resolved a Jitte. I lost to an Azorious Guildmage with an equipped Jitte.
Game 2: I kept him land screwed for a long, long while by hitting fetches with Trickbind. Unfortunately I was unable to resolve an Orb in any good amount of time. Eventually lost to a resolved Jitte.

Match 4: I have no idea what the deck really was 0-2
Game 1: Jitte
Game 2: He Needles Top plays Jitte. I Copy Artifact Needle and name Jitte. He EE's for 1. We discuss whether EE at 1 hits Copy Artifact as well. I decide to agree that it does. My needle disappears. Jitte beats me in the face.

So, mass amounts of creatures didn't give me half as much of a problem tonight as a single creature with a resolved Jitte. Running that heavy of a counter pool you'd think I would've been able to keep a Jitte off the board.

Overall, I'm incredibly satisfied with how the deck played. I know that with no draw spells I had a lot of trouble drawing an Orb or Tangle Wire but the survivability was insane.

I have no idea where to go with the deck now. I know a lot of those counters I was using are sub par and that sideboard is disgusting. I think 3x Pithing Needle is the first upgrade.

[Brizentine Empire]

Agreed, I think you need to add card drawing and fix the counterspells. The deck seems very control based, so I think you should:

-1 Spell Snare
-1 Rune Snag
-1 Mana Leak
-1 Delay
+2 Daze
+2 Counterspell

Spell snares are great in a tempo-based deck, where you can counter the best spells in legacy for one mana and keep up your tempo, however here it isn't great. Counterspall is better. Also, for this very reason, you can afford to run the four dazes, cause even though daze slows you down, you don't need the tempo. Finally, you need to find a way to add at least brainstorms. It will help regain some of your lost tempo as well as card quality and card reach. The tops help with this as well. I know its alot of suggestions but I think it will really help your deck break that threshold into the playoffs at our card shop.

[Wereodile]

It's good to see you got the deck out for a test run congrats!

I am working on a Solitary Confinement deck list which uses Mesmeric Orb, I will post the deck list once I have something worth posting :)

[stalkerzero]

Agreed, I think you need to add card drawing and fix the counterspells. The deck seems very control based, so I think you should:

-1 Spell Snare
-1 Rune Snag
-1 Mana Leak
-1 Delay
+2 Daze
+2 Counterspell

Spell snares are great in a tempo-based deck, where you can counter the best spells in legacy for one mana and keep up your tempo, however here it isn't great. Counterspall is better. Also, for this very reason, you can afford to run the four dazes, cause even though daze slows you down, you don't need the tempo. Finally, you need to find a way to add at least brainstorms. It will help regain some of your lost tempo as well as card quality and card reach. The tops help with this as well. I know its alot of suggestions but I think it will really help your deck break that threshold into the playoffs at our card shop.

My main problem right now is, I somehow need to work in Brainstorms (the interaction between Mesmeric Orb + Brainstorm is better than fetches and Brainstorm even) and 1 more Copy Artifact and 3 more Mana Short. The incredible amount of counters in the deck really were what I think saved me in so many games Friday. So I'm not sure what to take in and out.

So I need:
+4 Brainstorm
+3 Mana Short
+1 Copy Artifact
+3 Maze of Ith

-1 Counterbalance (?)
-1 Gaea's Blessing (?)
-1 Ancient Tomb
-1 Island (18 lands seems to be testing out pretty solid)
-1 Delay
-1 Rune Snag
-1 Mana Leak
-1 Spell Snare
-3x Wipe Away (move to board?)

Leaving me with a decklist of:
4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Tangle Wire
4x Copy Artifact

3x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Force of Will
2x Daze
2x Counterspell

4x Brainstorm
3x Trick Bind
4x Mana Short
2x Gaea's Blessing

17x Island
1x Polluted Delta
3x Maze of Ith

It loses a lot of counterspell power but gains Maze of Ith (probably even should be a four of), Mana Short can be a lot better than a counter in some circumstances by playing it during their upkeep, and Brainstorms may help me get to the cards I need faster. Sometimes I wasn't drawing an Orb until turn 10 or later Friday. That's definitely a huge problem.

I also need to come up with a solid sideboard (I'm thinking Needles/Propagandas/Wipe Aways/Stifles?).

Stifling fetches is just so tech I would've loved to run trickbinds and stifles main deck but there just isn't room.

And I'm still wondering about counter/top. I think it's strong. But, I'm also pretty blind to it. If I had the money I'd be playing 43land4counterbalance4tops.dec because I think it's that good of a combo.

[Wereodile]

It loses a lot of counterspell power but gains Maze of Ith (probably even should be a four of),

-I am currently also running 3 and I see them enough, running the 2x Energy Arc's help our alot with that as well.


And I'm still wondering about counter/top. I think it's strong. But, I'm also pretty blind to it. If I had the money I'd be playing 43land4counterbalance4tops.dec because I think it's that good of a combo.

3xCounterbalance and 3xTop is usually more then enough, though I see alot of people who run 4xCounterbalance and 3xTop. With 3 of each you should get the lock down fairly quick.

[stalkerzero]

So, I found a card that may fix the issue of drawing an orb. I'm just wondering how it'll fit in the deck (whether it would replace brainstorm or need to be snuck in otherwise) - Fabricate is a blue sorcery for 2U that lets you grab an artifact and put it in to your hand.

It's almost a Trinket Mage. Almost but no where near as cool.

[Arkham]

Is there a good way of making sure all of your opponents permanents are tapped during their upkeep to get the maximum out of the Orb?

I have never seen this deck before but I am pretty intrigued, especially a U/B build. Does anyone have a deck list for a U/B Build?

Have you guys considered Turnabout as a kill mech?

It's a 2uu blue instant that lets you tap or untap all artifacts, creatures, or lands target player controls. It doesn't let you tap everything, but it'd probably give you guys the edge you need to get that last card out of the deck. And it's definitely a utility card that could even get you out of a jam, if it were the case. Perhaps run 1 or 2 in the deck or even the sideboard?


Match 2: Counterslivers 2-1
What I assumed would be one of my worst match ups - control/aggro. Propaganda and Tangle Wire took the games home though.

Yeah, I didn't expect you to get that either. But that second match was insane. I hadn't expected you to get me by 1 card when you were sitting within mop-up range. Good games, though.

[stalkerzero]

Have you guys considered Turnabout as a kill mech?

It's a 2uu blue instant that lets you tap or untap all artifacts, creatures, or lands target player controls. It doesn't let you tap everything, but it'd probably give you guys the edge you need to get that last card out of the deck. And it's definitely a utility card that could even get you out of a jam, if it were the case. Perhaps run 1 or 2 in the deck or even the sideboard?



Yeah, I didn't expect you to get that either. But that second match was insane. I hadn't expected you to get me by 1 card when you were sitting within mop-up range. Good games, though.

It was definitely one of the most stressful magic matches I've ever played. :wink:

I think I'm going to try 2-3 Turnabout main deck. It's a lot better than Mana Short in most matches but the extra casting cost makes it a little worse of a slowing the tempo card.

Hopefully Matt at the shop has some Turnabouts and Fabricates (and no going up and buying them out and charging me $10 per).

I think turnabout and fabricate could help me maybe get the deck rolling a lot better. Just deciding on how many counterspells I need versus card draw/tutor is so insanely rough.

[Arkham]

Hopefully Matt at the shop has some Turnabouts and Fabricates (and no going up and buying them out and charging me $10 per).

Naw I'd never do that. :tongue:

[stalkerzero]

Naw I'd never do that. :tongue:

Thanks for the advice on Turnabout. I thought from when we talked about it at the store it was a card the cost mana per item tapped. I never even bothered to look it up. My brain is never all there tournament night though.

Now that I've seen it it'll speed up the deck a ton really.

And what counterbalance deck runs four casting cost cards? Mana Short has a 3 and some 3 casting cost show up in counterbalance (especially trinket mages) so less counterbalance crashing my dreams = good.

[Wereodile]

Thanks Arkham!

Like you said Turnabout looks like it could give you a couple of different looks in this deck either to "pump" the orb effect or get you out of a jam.

[yawg07]

You want Ernest's decklist, eh Casey?
I can't find his, but I know for a fact he ran Crucible of Worlds, and I'm pretty sure only one Blessing, but I can't remember that.
Crucible is a POWERHOUSE in card advantage for this deck.

Also, lol


And what counterbalance deck runs four casting cost cards?

Swan-thresh does! :wink:

[stalkerzero]

I'd still love to see his deck list. Most of the players I talked to after the tournament or after a match had said they thought a heavy control version of the deck played out a little better than Earnest's did. But, I'd really love to see Extirpate in here somehow and I know he ran them.

Crucible missing is mostly just my lack of cards for trade. I'd probably main deck two (and possibly toss Zuran Orb in the sideboard).

I'm a little worried about the one blessing but three is definitely over kill.

No tournament for me this weekend. I'll be out celebrating an anniversary but I'll be there Wednesday and Friday next week to make up for it and do some play testing.

I still have yet to see Thresh, 43lands, and a solid Stax game with this. And I've never played Dread/Landstill somehow in any tournament.

[Arkham]

Thanks for the advice on Turnabout. I thought from when we talked about it at the store it was a card the cost mana per item tapped. I never even bothered to look it up. My brain is never all there tournament night though.

The card you probably were thinking of aside from Turnabout was Opposition. It's a Blue Enchantment that costs 2uu (see a pattern?) and requires you to tap a CREATURE to tap either a land, artifact or creature of the opponent's. Not a good card at all in your deck. Stick to Turnabout, I think you'll be pleased with the results. :wink:


Swan-thresh does!

I was robbed! :tongue: