[Deck Choice] Gencon

[undone]

I have both UGw and UGr thresh built, they are very good however in a random metagame Which is better, here are the lists.

UGR tempo

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Werebear

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Fire / Ice
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Rushing River
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Ponder

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Trygon Predator
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Rushing River
3 Pyroclasm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt

UGW counter top

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Predict
2 Repeal
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ponder

3 Counterbalance
2 Hoofprints of the Stag
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:
3 Jötun Grunt
4 Hydroblast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Stifle
2 Armageddon

So essentialy my question is which beats more in a random metagame?

[Shriekmaw]

The Canadian Threshold deck is clearly the best threshold deck I have played, mostly because it has very good game against the entire field. I love the deck because it plays aggressive and thats what I want in an aggro/control deck.

I would revaluate the decklist for (UGr Tempo) Canadian Threshold. I don't believe you need the 2 wearbears in the deck, cut them completely. I would put in the 4th spell snare and second rushing river. Also, there is no reason not to run 2 deltas, 2 strands, and 2 foothills as your fetches.

Let me know what you decide, just make sure your very experienced with the deck. I would never take a deck that I haven't had a lot of experience with to a large event, especially GenCon.

[arsenalpow]

Always take a deck that you have had optimal seat time with. You are better off playing something you know rather than something you have never played before. Experience is key.

[nitewolf9]

I'd like to go ahead and offer a different approach here, if I may. You should probably choose whichever deck you are the most experienced with. The more playtime you have had with it, the better.

[T is for TOOL]

I'd like to go ahead and offer a different approach here, if I may. You should probably choose whichever deck you are the most experienced with. The more playtime you have had with it, the better.
I respectfully disagree. I think it is more important to play the deck that you are most comfortable with. Ideally you should know the in's and out's and all of the little tricks your deck is capable of. It also helps if you know how the different matchups breakdown and what cards are best to sideboard in each.

[nitewolf9]

I respectfully disagree. I think it is more important to play the deck that you are most comfortable with. Ideally you should know the in's and out's and all of the little tricks your deck is capable of. It also helps if you know how the different matchups breakdown and what cards are best to sideboard in each.

This is an interesting, yet unorthodox, approach. While your method may have its merits, I think it is best to just agree to disagree here.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Play Canadian Threshold with these changes:
-2 Werebear
+1 Spell Snare
+1 Wipe Away

SB
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip/Trygon Predator

[Wallace]

I respectfully disagree. I think it is more important to play the deck that you are most comfortable with. Ideally you should know the in's and out's and all of the little tricks your deck is capable of. It also helps if you know how the different matchups breakdown and what cards are best to sideboard in each.

I totally agree, people ask me all the time why I don't play Blue based control deck more. My answer is always the same, I feel most comfortable playing Red based, Aggro decks. I play them in every format from standard to Legacy, my play skill with the decks I play greatly improve my chances of winning.

This is even more true with big events, don't bring a deck you are playing for the first time to a major event. Use your local events to test new decks and ideas, don't waste the opportunity to have a nice showing in a large event just because you don't know the deck you're playing.

[undone]

SB
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip/Trygon Predator

Ill probably play canadian thresh. The MD will be altered but no wipe away I just like rushing river 2 better.

Also SB, 2 pyroclasm?? really seems like 3 is almost needed...

EDIT: also how do I side board with this board?

[Whit3 Ghost]

Ill probably play canadian thresh. The MD will be altered but no wipe away I just like rushing river 2 better.

Also SB, 2 pyroclasm?? really seems like 3 is almost needed...
You beat Goblins anyway and I'm not expecting it to make up much of the metagame. Needle is solid against Landstill/Loam/Survival/randomness which I would bank on comprising more of the meta than Gobs. Needle is also incredibly solid in the Goblins matchup anyway.

Also, read Goobafish's primer if you haven't already.

[undone]

Also, read Goobafish's primer if you haven't already.

Where is it?


You beat Goblins anyway and I'm not expecting it to make up much of the metagame. Needle is solid against Landstill/Loam/Survival/randomness which I would bank on comprising more of the meta than Gobs. Needle is also incredibly solid in the Goblins matchup anyway.

Fair enough I was thinking of them in the ichorid MU since they almost always go zombie aggro vs thresh.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Where is it?



Fair enough I was thinking of them in the ichorid MU since they almost always go zombie aggro vs thresh.
4 Crypt are better against Bridges and Clasm does jack against Ichorids.

http://magiceternal.com/legacy/Legacythresh.html
The Ichorid assessment and the sideboard are slightly outdated, other than that, the primer is awesome.

[FoolofaTook]

Just out of curiousity, why no Mystic Enforcer at all? Isn't that asking for the mirror to come down to their evasive beater against your Goyf? I recognize that Hoofprints does things for you but it makes 4/4's and 4/4's are small these days.

[Nihil Credo]

Just out of curiousity, why no Mystic Enforcer at all? Isn't that asking for the mirror to come down to their evasive beater against your Goyf? I recognize that Hoofprints does things for you but it makes 4/4's and 4/4's are small these days.
Seconded. Hoofprints of the Stag has really been sucking lately, partly because of Tombstalker but mostly because EE is everywhere and it makes EE@2 even more painful.

[FoolofaTook]

Seconded. Hoofprints of the Stag has really been sucking lately, partly because of Tombstalker but mostly because EE is everywhere and it makes EE@2 even more painful.

Yeah the 2cc permanent is not something that Thresh needs more of at this point, especially not in the mirror.

[arsenalpow]

in the mirror (thrash v c/b thresh) you just have to impede their development, stick an early goyf and try to win asap, then use your burn to finish them off.

[Shugyosha]

Well, as I have build the UGW list you've posted I'm biased...

Anyways the deck list is a bit outdated. Follow the link in my sig to the newer decklists. June 26th entry gives you an updated list. August 9th entry shows what I'm working on at the moment.

The UGW list has been tested and refined over a long time and is amazingly strong but difficult to play. Its brilliant in the mirror, much more decent against Landstill than other variants and very flexible. Quick starts can give you a headache, though.

@ EE: That's why Needles are main and that's why it is difficult to play. Needles are not the cure I know but help alot against EE/Deed. You need to have a back up plan and won't go all-in like UGr Thresh can do.

@ Hoofprints: They are good if your decklist is build to abuse them. Still the 1 Prints / 1 Enforcer split might be a better choice. If your set-up is bad you will most likely end up with only one token for some time. At least it pumps goyfs when it dies which won me games.
If your set-up is good you will make a token every second turn!

[undone]

I dont know which one to play, The red list seems to auto lose the lands matchup, but the white list has serious problems vs goblins.

Neither have a good lanstill matchup which is aquard. I dont know which to play in a random metagame.

[Whit3 Ghost]

I dont know which one to play, The red list seems to auto lose the lands matchup, but the white list has serious problems vs goblins.

Neither have a good lanstill matchup which is aquard. I dont know which to play in a random metagame.
It doesn't autolose the Lands matchup. It comes down to Needles and Goyfs and trying to delay Loam as much as possible. It's hard, but do-able. This list doesn't auto-lose to anything.

The landstill matchup is incredibly list dependent but I can say that Canadian Thresh boasts a much better landstill matchup than its counterparts.

[Phantom]

I would say for a large, long tourney play the more aggressive list (Red here) if only for the simplicity. The longer games go, the more chances you have to make a mistake.

[undone]

Im going to play the standard tempo list -1 wipe away +1 rushing river.

I havent played the lands MU, i just know its bad.

Landstill seems very bad for this deck no matter how lucky you get.

Also the SB will be

4 Crypt
4 REB/pyroblasts
3 needle
2 pyroclasm
2 open spots either predator or grip, which one works better in random metagames.

[goobafish]

Landstill seems very bad for this deck no matter how lucky you get.

That is not true. I have lost to Landstill 3 times (2 against the same list, in the same event), playing against it many many many times in tourneys. My win record against landstill is probably in or above the 75% range. Certain lists can give you some trouble, but most aren't that difficult.

[Shugyosha]

Im going to play the standard tempo list -1 wipe away +1 rushing river.

I havent played the lands MU, i just know its bad.

Landstill seems very bad for this deck no matter how lucky you get.

As gooba said Landstill is far from being an autoloss. Your speed will give them trouble. But cutting Wipe Away won't help. Its your surefire way to solve a problem (Humility/Moat/Manland to name Landstill problems) for just the turn you need and it can bounce a land occasionally helping your disruption to pull a quick kill through. It also bounces Deed and EE game 1 often because your opponents don't think that you have any answer with Split Second.



Also the SB will be

4 Crypt
4 REB/pyroblasts
3 needle
2 pyroclasm
2 open spots either predator or grip, which one works better in random metagames.

Never leave the house without Krosan Grip !! Also with only two Clasms and no BEB your Goblin match is still quite "loseable".

[goobafish]

Never leave the house without Krosan Grip !! Also with only two Clasms and no BEB your Goblin match is still quite "loseable".

Not even close. Goblins is really hard to loose to, even with that board. There is no need to dedicate more sideboard slots on it.

[undone]

Few questions.

In what matchups is Ice on a land the correct play. (assuming it puts them at 0 mana for the turn without another land drop)

If I am in topdeck mode with a dude on board and topdeck a fetch do i fetch immediately or 1-2 turns after or wait for a brainstorm/ponder.

Assuming the ichorid MU is even (seems to be now) Do I board 4 crypt 4 eleblast (on the play)to disrupt the speed and 2 pyroclasm.

still not totaly sure how to board with this deck but we will figure it out fairly fast.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Few questions.

In what matchups is Ice on a land the correct play. (assuming it puts them at 0 mana for the turn without another land drop)

If I am in topdeck mode with a dude on board and topdeck a fetch do i fetch immediately or 1-2 turns after or wait for a brainstorm/ponder.

Assuming the ichorid MU is even (seems to be now) Do I board 4 crypt 4 eleblast (on the play)to disrupt the speed and 2 pyroclasm.

still not totaly sure how to board with this deck but we will figure it out fairly fast.
Do it if you have pressure.
It depends, apparently the right play is to save the lands.
Against Ichorid, Spell Snare and Bounce are coming out for 4 Crypt and 2 Clasm. Needles might see some action if my opponent is on like 4 Coliseum/4 Wraith/4PImp and such. Also, blasts want to come in.
As for boarding, taking things out is probably the biggest issue.
Spell Snare is the first thing to go against Goblins unless they have 4 Weirding and 4 Tarmogoyf.
4 Blast and 2 Grip and sometimes some number of Needles come in for the mirror depending on the opponent's list.
For Landstill you want your Grips and Blasts, with Needles if they have a lot of targets.
Against Dragon Stompy I board out Stifle for 2 Grip and 2 Clasm.
Against Agro Loam I board in Crypts and either Needle or Grip depending on what else they're playing.
Against TES you want Clasms and Blasts.

[Dark_Cynic87]

I ran UGr Thresh with Swans but not the combo for swans @ a GenCon 4-round side event just for packs. I got a 1-round bye (wtf) and then played the last 3 rounds. Lost the mirror round 2, beat 9-land stompy (again, wtf), lost to goblins. I couldn't hit a creature to save me, couldn't counter shit fast enough. I kept the board clear of scary stuff (lackies and Drivers) for a while, but I ran out of counters, cantrips and burn eventually. It was a Rgw build, which threw me for a loop. After game 3 I flipped the next card I would have drawn. Pyroclasm. Shit. One card away from being okay for a while.

The combo never did anything for me. I never hit it when I need it. I get them in hand and never hit swan or hit swan and no combo, or it gets screwed up by a counterspell or something. I just left it out and ran pretty much a regular UGr list. 2 swans. Was gonna be 3, but Stifles seemed more important, and they were.

I had land/stifle wars 2 of the 3 games in the mirror. turn 1: Him dropping Delta. Turn 1: me dropping Delta, turn 2 he drops waste, and then I drop waste. Turn 3 he drops strand, I drop Foothills. Turn 4 he drops waste #2. I have 2x Stifles in hand. He wastes my waste. Response, I waste his Delta, response he pops it. Response I pop Delta, he pops Strand, I pop Foothills. Foothills resolves, I grab Trop. He pops Waste #2 @ my Trop, I tap for U and say okay to let the Waste resolve, then stifle the Strand.

I can't remember exactly how it ended up, but I end up having a Trop out and he ends up having nothing. 4 turns of lands dropped and 1 on the table when the stack finally resolves. We had people on both sides watching it play out. It was rediculous. And beautiful.

Against goblins I got out 3 Mongoose and wiped the board over and over and I still got handled. It was gay. I hate that matchup. It was actually probably winnable, but I just started playing thresh this weekend. I started building it monday, got it done on Thursday and played it Saturday.

People were beating the crap out of Thresh this weekend here in Indy. Just so you know, Elves, Belcher, Dragon Stompy and CounterSlivers made t8 in Legacy Champs, but no Thresh. :eek:

Pce,

--DC

[arsenalpow]

I played UGR Thrash for the legacy events, I top 4-ed the first prelim losing to zohar with his landstill build who eventually pulled down the first set of byes

champs rd 1 - red landstill (team reflection build)
2-1

rd 2 - UWg Landstill
1-1-1 (mulled to 5 game 2, runed halo is annoying)

rd 3 - rifter with rune of protection green/no basics
they aren't touched by the thrash disruption, also during this round i looked down to find my bag stolen so i dropped right then....

all in all a horrible weekend.