[Deck] Revenge of the Nether

[dahcmai]

Ok, I had an idea and I usually play Eve Green so it sounded good when I put it on paper. It's just adding a trick, but man it's a nasty one.

I was reading about a ruling in where someone countered a Demigod of Revenge and the trigger wasn't on the stack yet so by countering it, he ended up getting the Demigod into play even though it was countered because it had hit the grave and then triggered itself.

Now I thought, that's really amusing, especially if you're countering it yourself with a Nether Void.

Nether Void had a pretty serious problem back in the old days. It's flat hard to play around if your opponent gets ahead of you and it can end up hurting you more than them.

The original plan was to disrupt them enough to play some pumpable creatures and pray they make it all the way before the opponent recovers. The worst part was you couldn't play anything expensive because the Void hit you also and well 3 mana is a lot. So you ended up playing little pipsqueeks like Order of the Ebon Hand, Black Knight, and later on at least you got Nantuko Shade. Shade is nice, but he just couldn't hold up the whole deck by himself.

Eventually, people figured that you could play crappy creatures like Blurred Mongoose and Urza's Rage through it, but that just didn't cut it. Then Goblins came along and just plain obsoleted it due to it being a little slow.

Enter the Demigod.

6 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
3 Tombstalker
4 Nether Void
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Snuff Out

Demigod fixes that age old problem of not being able to play through it yourself. Delve seems pretty good all of a sudden also so Tombstalker stayed in the version of Eva Green I had. Eve Green just happened to have an already proven baseline to run with that was similar to the old Void decks so I just converted it over.

It's not proven yet and I've been doing a little testing, but I wanted to see if people could come up with some other ideas. Pretty much it plays like Eva Green with a nasty trick. It has it's advantages though. Anything that is hurt by Trinisphere is hurt by this. So combo isn't so bad. Dark Ritual may get neutered by the Void, but it's sure nice to put the stomp down on a combo deck in the meantime.

It seems damned good in theory. Makes me want to try a version with the typical loadout of Ancient Tombs/City of Traitors also to see if it can handle that. I kind of doubt it would work, but it's a thought since Nether Void is like Trinisphere's big brother from hell.

Well, let me know what you think.

[morgan_coke]

That looks interesting, however, I would start by cutting thoughtseize for duress. Also, tomb/city would literally only contribute to the casting costs of void and stalker. same with factory's except add goyf to that list. might be worth it to replace factory's with wastelands.

[Rush]

I like this deck idea, but have you thought about maybe making the deck a little more Landstillish?

[Shtriga]

That looks interesting, however, I would start by cutting thoughtseize for duress. Also, tomb/city would literally only contribute to the casting costs of void and stalker. same with factory's except add goyf to that list. might be worth it to replace factory's with wastelands.

why cutting thoughtseize for duress? seize is better

factories are creatures you can play through a nether void on the table

[Nihil Credo]

Wicked cool idea.

You probably want some number of Urborgs in there to help cast Demigod. Also, despite being a "free" spell, Snuff Out might not work as well here as it does in Eva Green, since your build is less focused on tempo and might end up taking a lot more damage. Though I don't know exactly what to replace it with - maybe Contagion?

[Tog]

Just one word of caution I want to throw in about Tombstalker & Nether Void interaction is that Nether Void is a triggered ability and not an additional cost. Hence you can't delve away the Void's triggered cost. Otherwise, good luck!

[Jaiminho]

I was reading about a ruling in where someone countered a Demigod of Revenge and the trigger wasn't on the stack yet so by countering it, he ended up getting the Demigod into play even though it was countered because it had hit the grave and then triggered itself.

Correcting the rulings: Demigod's triggered is already on the stack when you get to choose to pay 3 or not, but it didn't resolve yet. Both trigger when you play it, so you arrange it such as Nether Void's resolves first, then Demigod's, so it gets countered and then reanimated. The idea is the same, but I just wanted to correct the writing here.

[Phantom]

Wicked cool idea.

You probably want some number of Urborgs in there to help cast Demigod. Also, despite being a "free" spell, Snuff Out might not work as well here as it does in Eva Green, since your build is less focused on tempo and might end up taking a lot more damage. Though I don't know exactly what to replace it with - maybe Contagion?

Slaughter Pact maybe? Is it worth going for green and goyf over speeding out Voids with 2mana lands or running Wastes or something. If you're going to run green is Deed a consideration as a pre Void sweeper?

Anyway, neat idea.

[syssc9]

I love Nether Void decks and this idea is just plain evil! I have posted numerous times in many different threads here, about one of my most favorite old decks, a Black-Green land destruction deck with N-Void as the lock piece. LD really breaks the symmetry of Nether Void so an initial suggestion would be to consider more LD – Smallpox might be a nice ‘n nasty consideration. Keeping your own mana requirements as low as possible is obvious tech – 3 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale can tie up the opponents mana and even serve as a one sided Wrath effect occasionally. I also second the previous suggestions for Wasteland, Urborg, and man-lands.

[Willoe]

Have you already tried a Nether Void shell deck with uncounterable creatures? I'm working on one at the moment. Blurred Mongoose, Isao, Enlightened Bushi, Wastelands to disrupt and tempo setback your opponent, manlands, Vexing Shushers (VERY synergistic in the deck) and even a couple of Vexing Beetle. It's so awesome. Here's my skeleton:

4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Bayou
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
1 Forest
1 Swamp

4 Blurred Mongoose
3 Isao, Enlightened Bushi
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Nether Void
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Mox Diamond

This idea might not be as good as yours, but it's some kind of BG disruption with Nether Void, one of the most disrupting cards ever printed.

[syssc9]

@willoe
I wish this would work, but I don't believe it does. Nether Void's ability is Triggered, not actually an aditional cost. Perhaps somone of our Rules Gurus could pop in and explain this better than I.

Edit: And if I am wrong and it does work, then I probably just wet myself.

[Nihil Credo]

It's actually the opposite. If it were an additional cost, yeah, uncounterability wouldn't matter: you can't play Vexing Shusher or whatever without paying the appropriate cost. However, Nether Void is a triggered ability that says "Unless you pay 3, counter this", so with uncounterable spells you can just not pay and Nether Void won't be able to counter them anyway (same thing with a Chalice of the Void trigger).

[ThatGuyThere]

It'll never be relevant, but you can get through Counterbalance the same way. The Counterbalance "reveal" trigger resolves before the "back from the graveyard" trigger does; if the Demigod *is* countered, he's still coming.

For this record, this is awesome-cool. I don't think it's a tier-one deck, but I hope it is. I have long lusted for Turn 1 Nether Void to be a valid play (again?).

[Willoe]

@ThatGuyThere: When was that hot do to?

Trust me, the principle works. You simply let the Nether Void try to counter the critter, but then the counter effect will fizzle. It's so much a shame that the mana base is so crappy, even though we play 32 mana sources. Landing a turn one Void followed up by a second turn Isao and then a Mongoose is practically game-winning. Or so I think, as Isao regenerates and Mongoose has shroud. That's a pretty solid game-plan, but with no draw, the deck is entirely dependant on a quick nether void. Other than that, it's very, very sucky BG staxless stax deck.

[ThatGuyThere]

@ Willoe: Back when it was Juzam Djinn, Nether Void, Go. It was one of the "first turn wins" back when Legends was the new set. :P
(No, it never, to my knowledge, got used. But it was fun to talk about.)

I was mulling this over on the way home (just got off work) - what about Trinisphere with Nether Void? Making the "other guy" pay (6) for everything sounds like it might be some good; I don't think anyone could get out from under 3Sphere plus 'Void. Use a Stompy-style manabase, maybe?

Edit Before Pushing Reply - Er, yeah. Sort of exactly what Willoe just posted. *Ahem*.

Or use the black back-from-the-graveyard "suite", since our creatures under a 3Sphere + Void don't have to be good, or fast, just *there*.

[dahcmai]

I was going through ideas for it since Nether Void decks haven't been around since I started playing back in the Legends days and it really hasn't shown it's face in a long time. Yeah, I still have my Juzams. :D

The old decks tried not to rely on the void since it's too comboey at that point and I tried to stay on the same route. It's a finisher and finish it does.

I did try using Blurred Mongoose back when it came out and Urza's Rage. It turned into a deck that was using subpar crap when you didn't have a Void. That was my problem.

Sucks to hear it's a triggered ability. I didn't really look up the Oracle on it. Delve would have been slick. Oh well. Guess I'll find a replacement for Tombstalker, though 5 mana isn't all that bad either and it's not like you have the void every game anyway.

It's too bad Contamination or Urborg doesn't make Ancient Tomb make two black. I was sad when I looked it up hoping for the best.


I do agree Urborg would be a good idea just to make the Mishra's make black though. Doesn't hurt.

Tabernacle seems like an amazing idea though. I expected this to have a hard time with quick creatures that get through before you can drop a Void or if you fail to find one at all.

I kind of based it around Eva Green since that deck doesn't have a problem with most decks and if you notice it's very, very, similar in that the only thing missing is a couple of cards. So I knew it would hold up if I didn't drop a void. Don't want to get into the "cool combo" curse.

Demigod is a serious pain in the ass to deal with even in Legacy. He chuckles at just about everything. Races most decks damage with ease and if you actually have two it's no contest. The guy is rough to play against if someone is slow enough to let you have 5 mana.

I was surprised when we tested it against some random decks. Nether Void itself is a frigging beating. It's hilarious on today's decks. It's like Trini on crack. It's not a matter of turning things into 3 casting cost, it's a whopping 3 mana for anything only getting worse if it actually costs something. You should try this against white stax. It's actually odd playing the two. I had a friend who had a version and we went back and forth. The fast discard disruption usually won out, but it got funny in some games.

The only bad thing we found is this deck falls over and dies to Dredge. Guess we know what 7 spots of the board would be for. Serum Powder and Leyline of the Void. You have virtually no chance, it's really bad. Your best hope is to hit something vital 1st turn with a Thoughtseize or maybe get lucky and landscrew them on accident. That's not a comforting thought, but I guess Eva Green has that problem also.

Snuff out is a remainder. I didn't see a good replacement short of Vendetta. Contagion seems so old school, I had that in my original Void deck.


One of my thoughts was to use Bitterblossom. Yeah it's the standard craze, but it is one hell of a source of everlasting chumpers. I had this odd thought of using the blossom with Contamination and maybe Braids, but it was way into the "danger of cool cards" at that point. I ditched the idea before testing it.

Trini sounds interesting, but how to get it in play fast without kicking your own nuts with the Demigod casting cost? That was my prob. Playing a crapload of Urborgs sounded like having a 3 card combo all of a sudden.

[ThatGuyThere]

Trini sounds interesting, but how to get it in play fast without kicking your own nuts with the Demigod casting cost? That was my prob. Playing a crapload of Urborgs sounded like having a 3 card combo all of a sudden.

Well, Ritual -> Trinisphere sorta, y'know, Works. But that means both parties sit bored behind a 3Sphere for several turns. I dunno if that ends in our deck's favour unless we have a fourth land drop and Nether Void waiting for Turn 4.

I don't think a Stompy manabase (Tombs and Traitors) is a big problem. Assuming that with no / minimal cantrips available to them our opponent can manage to hit every land-drop, it's still no sooner than turn 6 that they can cast things (with Trinisphere up, followed by Nether Void).

The whole idea would be gumming up the works for so long that our comparitively crappy "can't be countered" stuff can go the distance. When even the simplist piece of removal, or cantrip, or deck smoothing, or *anything* costs :6:, Blurred Mongoose and Vexing Susher could potentially get quite a lead going.

Besides, the Demigod is in there, in a sense, to get countered. That is, we pay only :br: :br: :br: :br: :br: for him, let 'Void counter him, and still put him in play. As long as we can hit *our* land drops faster / better than the opponent hits theirs, we'll be in business.

Which is also why Urborg does not a 3-card-combo make. It makes it easier to cast the Demigod under Sphere / Void; it *can* be done without it. We could also use Blood Moon to accomplish the same thing (and it would compliment 3Sphere and Nether Void well, too).

The only problem I can see with this deck is that your opponent *will* kick you, square in the bean-bag, when you first-turn-Sphere, second-turn-'Void.

Well, that, and if you don't first-turn-Sphere, second-turn-'Void, you'll probably third-turn-scoop.

[syssc9]

If you read my last post above, I just want you-all to know my pants are all warm and gooshy now. And it feels good!

Can someone help me out and explain the complete interaction between Urborg and Ancient Tombs/Cities? If they don’t produce 2 black, do they produce a single black mana if requested? That would be fine with me. Best would be 2 colorless and 1 black, but that’s way too much to ask for. I looked up the rulings in Gatherer for all 3 cards, but did not find anything useful.

I have been trying for years now, ever since I got back into Magic, to make Nether Void work in this format, but have failed due to the speed issue – it is often just too slow. Dark Ritual is not the answer either. If you have one in your draw it’s fine, but once the N-Void hits it’s a dead card. (Pay 4 to get 3? Fa-ged-aboudit!) Someone above suggested Exploration for additional acceleration – sounds worth testing to me. Should be way fast with all the 2 mana lands. I’d like to reiterate from my previous post - Land Destruction breaks the symmetry of Nether Void. Killing just one or two of your opponent’s lands then getting a Void in play is devastating. Popping their land after the Void is on the table is even worse.

Another problem is getting all the right support cards to keep goblin hordes, and artifact hordes and killer enchantments off my neck. I have been stuck in B/W because I liked Vindicate as the all-purpose answer. @Phantom – Deed it is! You da MAN! Thanks. This is after all, a control deck at heart, and since it’s GB to boot, what could be better than Deed? Dunno why I missed that for so long.

Here’s a very preliminary, untested list. Just a thought experiment, really, but it’s all because of you-all’s brainstorming. (I stand on the shoulders of giants – does that make me Newton? Big Bronx cheer…)

SPELLS
4 Nether Void (In previous decks I have never needed more than 3, but who knows…)
4 Exploration
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Blurred Mongoose
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Infernal Contract/Diabolic Intent/Isao, Enlightened Bushi/Treetop Village/Mishra’s

LAND
3 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (all I have)
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (all I have)
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors (again, all I have)
4 Fetch
6 Swamp
1 Forest

In the final 4 spell spell slots I am leaning toward Diabolic Intent or Treetop Village. The Sideboard might contain things like Chalice, perhaps Trinisphere, various discard possibilities, additional cheap creature kill (Innocent blood?), and the aforementioned Serum Powder and Leyline of the Void.

Casting something like Innocent Blood with a Demigod and Nether void on the table and one in hand sounds downright naughty to me. Or the same situation, but casting Diabolic Intent for Nether Void, sacing a Demigod in play, then dropping one from your hand. Definitely the danger of cool stuff, but I am still shivering with delight just thinking about it.