Epochrasite and Phasing

[Lukas Preuss]

Okay, I know Phasing in doesn't trigger comes into play effects. But me and a friend were wondering the other day, whether Epochrasite is a 1/1 creature when it phases in or a 4/4 creature.

I would have thought that it phases in as a 1/1 creature if it left play that way, but the way Epochrasite is worded makes me wonder if there is a change that I'm wrong. It clearly comes into play (eventhough comes into play triggers don't trigger) and it wasn't played from my hand...

Anybody care to clear this up for me?

[monkeyfeelers]

It comes in as a 1/1 since abilities that modify what happens when a permanent comes into play are ignored when a permanent phases in.

502.15d Permanents phasing in or out don't trigger any comes-into-play or leaves-play abilities, and effects that modify how a permanent comes into play are ignored. Abilities and effects that specifically mention phasing can modify or trigger on these events, however. (Because no player receives priority during the untap step, any abilities triggering off of the phasing event won't go onto the stack until the upkeep step begins.)

[Wallace]

It comes in as a 1/1 since abilities that modify what happens when a permanent comes into play are ignored when a permanent phases in.

502.15d Permanents phasing in or out don't trigger any comes-into-play or leaves-play abilities, and effects that modify how a permanent comes into play are ignored. Abilities and effects that specifically mention phasing can modify or trigger on these events, however. (Because no player receives priority during the untap step, any abilities triggering off of the phasing event won't go onto the stack until the upkeep step begins.)

Epochrasite reads:

Epochrasite comes into play with three +1/+1 counters on it if you didn't play it from your hand.

When something phases's in it isn't being played, so Epochrasite won't trigger. Just like if you play animate dead on Epocracite it won't trigger cuz it's coming into play, not being played.

[Nihil Credo]

@Wallace: You missed the "didn't", I think ;) (i.e. you reanimate an Epochrasite, it's a 4/4).

[Jaiminho]

Epochrasite reads:

Epochrasite comes into play with three +1/+1 counters on it if you didn't play it from your hand.

When something phases's in it isn't being played, so Epochrasite won't trigger. Just like if you play animate dead on Epocracite it won't trigger cuz it's coming into play, not being played.

If it comes into play via reanimation, blinkage, Astral Sliding or anything of the kind, it checks if you played it from your hand. Since you didn't, it comes with lotsa counters. Only if you played it and it was from hand, it comes with nothing.

[Anusien]

It comes in as a 1/1 since abilities that modify what happens when a permanent comes into play are ignored when a permanent phases in.

502.15d Permanents phasing in or out don't trigger any comes-into-play or leaves-play abilities, and effects that modify how a permanent comes into play are ignored. Abilities and effects that specifically mention phasing can modify or trigger on these events, however. (Because no player receives priority during the untap step, any abilities triggering off of the phasing event won't go onto the stack until the upkeep step begins.)
Right rule, but you're slightly off.

It will phase back in as whatever it phased out as. Rule 502.15d shows that it won't phase back automatically with 3 counters. However, there's one other rule to quote:


502.15h. Phased-out cards "remember" their past histories and will return to play in the same state. They "remember" any counters they had on them, any choices made when they first came into play, whether they were flipped when they left play, and whether they were tapped or untapped when they left play. They also "remember" who controlled them when they phased out, although they may phase in under the control of a different player if a control effect with limited duration has expired

So if it phases out with no counters, it comes back with no counters. If it phases out with counters, it comes back with counters.

[Lukas Preuss]

Alright, that's what I thought. Thanks!