Favorite Casual Format

[Xenocide]

Since I can't post in the Adept Q&A forum, I figured I'd post a response here. My favorite Casual Format is called 300.

1. All players play from the same deck.
2. The deck is 300 cards split into 3 100 card stacks.
-1st stack of 100 is only land (no duplicates - optional).
-2nd stack is only creatures (no duplicates).
-3rd stack is all other spells/artifacts/enchantments (no duplicates).
3. Whenever a player would draw a card, s/he chooses which stack to draw from.
4. Whenever a player would put a card back on the library s/he is required to place cards on the appropriate stack.
5. Some cards have special rules (gamekeeper for instance, the player must turn over cards from the creature deck).
6. All other normal magic rules apply.

Tips:
-Some cards/mechanics don't work that well (looking at you clash).
-Try to keep the colors balanced as well (does not have to be exact).
-Don't let players look at ANY of the cards s/he has drawn until all cards for an effect are chosen. For instance, don't let players draw their hand and let them look at the cards 1 at a time, because it may affect which pile they draw from for the next card.
-Personally I find that cards that are more interactive are better (duh!), and if you keep the cmc of cards down, it makes the game more interesting.
-Change/replace cards as you figure out what is too strong or weak.

Pros:
-Easy to get people who don't play as much, or have many cards to play.
-Scales well (you can play two-headed dragon, ffa, *star, or any other variation with it).
-Really fun.

Cons:
-Depending on your cardpool it may be hard to get 100 good cards for each stack.
-100 land is especially hard (I play proxied duals), but a good manabase is necessary, otherwise too many games will be lost to colorscrew.

*star: 5-player format, first player to kill the two players opposite him wins. This is usually more fun than ffa for 5 players b/c there is a pseudo-alliance with the players next to you since you both share 1 opponent.

EDIT: This should probably be moved to the community board.

[Nihil Credo]

I assume Madness is banned?

I made a 300 joke. Kill me now.

[Pinder]

I assume Madness is banned?

I made a 300 joke. Kill me now.


No, it's just that if you play a Madness card, you get kicked into a pit.

[Phantom]

Does Cube Draft count as casual? If not then I don't have one I suppose.

[Xenocide]

I assume Madness is banned?

I made a 300 joke. Kill me now.

What is Madness? Are you talking about the mechanic? I see no reason why that mechanic would be banned, in fact I play some madness cards in my 300 and it works fine.

[Citrus-God]

What is Madness? Are you talking about the mechanic? I see no reason why that mechanic would be banned, in fact I play some madness cards in my 300 and it works fine.

THIS IS MADNESS!!!!

[Atwa]

THIS IS MADNESS!!!!

NO, this is SPARTAAAA!!!!!
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/338000/338172WCEB_w.jpg

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Cube Draft and Pile are tied for me, although as I was introduced to Cube more recently, I'm on a kick.

Cube is a format invented by I don't know who, but popularized by Tom Lapille and Evan Erwin, and others. It's around 500-600 of the greatest cards ever made, singleton, including non-basic lands. Shuffle it up and distribute it into piles of 15. Those are your "packs". Proceed to draft with the broken.

Pile is my own invention. One 365 (or thereabouts) deck, three colors. Everyone plays from the same deck, shares the same graveyard and starts with a basic land of their choice in play. Otherwise it's exactly like regular Magic. Generally it's a meeting ground between being a Spikey-collection of really famous cards and being a Timmy-esque horde of really cool big creatures. Some cards are ridiculously banned, especially Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library and Volrath's Stronghold.

[Willoe]

My favorite casual format is Vintage Pauper or Commonkill as we call it back here in Denmark.

-Minimum sixty cards in each deck
- Every common that has been printed in ANY set is Legal.
Here are some cards without common rarity, but had common rarity once they were printed.
AQ Mishra's Factory C1
AQ Strip Mine C1
TD Maze of Ith C1
CH Kei Takahashi C1
CH Marhault Elsdragon C1
CH Sivitri Scarzam C1
CH Tobias Andrion C1
CH Tor Wauki C1
AT Swords to Plowshares C
AT Goblin Recruiter C
AT Black Knight C
AT Ranger en-Vec C
AT Order of the White Shield C
AT Goblin Balloon Brigade C
AT Knight of Stromgald C

Yup, Maze, Factory, STP, even the Mine and Goblin Recruiter are all legal.

That format is very interesting. Currently, the only banned cards are Mana Crypt and Cranial Plating. They simply make affinity stupid.

Currently, the top tier decks in the format are:

Burn - too boring, so noone plays it, luckily.
Affinity - Still good without plating
UW aggro Blink aggro-control - Bounce effects and massive tempo advantage.
Madness in all different color combinations - The Threshold of this format. Very funny tricks with Frantic Search and Gush can be done.

Tier 1.5 - 2:
Empty the Warrens combo - very fast, but extremely inconsistent, and Echoing Truth is overplayed
High Tide combo - With Grapeshot kill, but a lot slower and fragile.
White weenie - Not sure about this one, but with lifegain, they roll over Burn, which is huge. Aven Riftwatcher for potential best creature in the format.

That's all. Check out www.forums-free.commonmagic.com if you want to learn more about some decks. The site just started, so feedback will be appreciated.

And the advertisement ends here. Willoe signing off.

[Sek'Kuar]

NO, THIS IS SPAAAARTAAAAAAA!!!

Seriously, though, my favorite format is pack wars. Booster pack goodness!

EDIT: Damn it Atwa...

[Aggro_zombies]

No, it's just that if you play a Madness card, you get kicked into a pit.
Bottomless Pit (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=5113)?

My favorite format is probably Harem. The idea is that you have a sixty card Highlander deck, but the catch is that all nonland cards save one have to have a female prominently depicted in the artwork. The exception is your pimp, and that can be any creature with a male in its artwork.

I play an Angel+Elf deck (with Rhys the Redeemed as the pimp) and a tribal Wizard deck (with Patron Wizard as the pimp).

I also like EDH (one deck currently, tribal elves with Teneb as the general).

EDIT: I second Willoe on liking Pauper. I have a WUr Cogs deck and a BG MADNESS! deck, both Legacy-legal.

[Derklord]

The Problem with many fun formats is that people just puch it over the edge...

I used to really like Highlander... till I saw all these perfektly build decks with tons of broken cards in it and full of tutors and and some crazy combos etc... you get the point.

Same with EDH... really fun to play but when some guys build wicked combo decks you can't beat without a shitload of disruption the fun stops for me.

"Pile" is not something new, we play like that with normal highlander decks from time to time, but you really have to take care that there are no spoilers in that just decide the game on their own because loosing to a single card relly ain't fun Pile.

The casual format I really like is Rareless... like pauper Magic but with uncommons avaiable (but always counting the last edition, so e.g. StP is banned) and with a banned list banning all these cards that just have the wrong rarity (like FoW) and a few like Skullclamp.

Harem is a nice idea...

[Elficidium]

Same with EDH... really fun to play but when some guys build wicked combo decks you can't beat without a shitload of disruption the fun stops for me.


Honestly, I can't imagine someone pulling off a combo in EDH that kills everyone more than once. Even if you succeed, the second you pull out the same general again, you're first on the to-kill list, and in a format where turn 2 fattie isn't uncommon, you're not going to be doing much.

[Di]

Honestly, I can't imagine someone pulling off a combo in EDH that kills everyone more than once. Even if you succeed, the second you pull out the same general again, you're first on the to-kill list, and in a format where turn 2 fattie isn't uncommon, you're not going to be doing much.

When I "go off" with my deck, all opponents are left with no permanents in play and no library. It happens fairly often too, and I'm not even a combo deck.

Karn is my general, btw.

[C.P.]

EDH is my favorite format. And I also like just getting 8 people with ridiculous decks and having fun all day.

EDH is also the best format to pimp... your playset is one! :rolleyes:

[Raddley]

My vote would have to go for EDH. It has slowly been gaining popularity with everyone around here. Of course, I am the *** that plays Zur when a majority of the games being played are duels. So I guess it would be fun for me.

[Wereodile]

My vote would have to go for EDH. It has slowly been gaining popularity with everyone around here. Of course, I am the *** that plays Zur when a majority of the games being played are duels. So I guess it would be fun for me.

My Play group is starting up some EDH, after having to listen to me talk about it endlessly for the last 6 months.

I have also chosen Zur as my General, I expect many a groin kick being directed my way.

[Eldariel]

Just ban Necropotence and suddenly Zur goes from "totally bonkers-nuts" to "fun, playable". And ban Yawgmoth's Will. Seriously, that card has no business being 1000' from a magic game.

[Ectoplasm]

Chaos multiplayer, not alot to say about it. Build some stupid deck and try to show it off, 100/100 giants roaming the table and a WoG, Armageddon or Akroma's Vengeance every round, the guy who plays Rites of Flourishing wins (on the merit of not getting attacked by anyone).

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

So, to continue the Adept thread track, damn, Make Your Own Standard seems really interesting. What's the best setup for RG beats? Ravnica, 9th... and... Onslaught? The fetchlands alone let you go enough colors to run Dark Confidant, Watchwolf, etc., all in the same aggro deck, with Vinelasher Kudzu going nuts. Seems otherwise short on non-Tribal boosts, though. I guess Caller of the Claw is good? Or Oversold Cemetery.

[Eldariel]

First, I think Legacy just lost a king. My bad (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero).


Second, I don't think the B&R list has actually been typed out everywhere (it's simply a mishmash of Legacy and Block-bannings). Therefore, I'll just do it right here, right now, set by set, bla bla bla bla bla...:

Amulet of Quoz
Thawing Glaciers
Zuran Orb
Demonic Consultation
Necropotence
Squandered Resources
Flash
Goblin Recruiter
Vampiric Tutor
Cursed Scroll
Dream Halls
Earthcraft
Hermit Druid
Oath of Druids
Gaea's Cradle
Memory Jar
Serra's Sanctum
Time Spiral
Tolarian Academy
Voltaic Key
Windfall
Frantic Search
Grim Monolith
Memory Jar
Metalworker
Time Spiral
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Windfall
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Yawgmoth's Will
Rishadan Port
Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
Gush
Entomb
Mind's Desire
Aether Vial
Ancient Den
Arcbound Ravager
Darksteel Citadel
Disciple of the Vault
Great Furnace
Seat of the Synod
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
Skullclamp


Some of them obviously don't belong, like artifact lands (Affinity is already banned-banned; just axe Cranial Plating and it'll never get up), Lin Sivvi, Rishadan Port, Voltaic Key, Squandered Resources, Zuran Orb and Thawing Glaciers. Further, a case could be made for few other cards. But until the format gets its own B&R list, it's simpliest just to follow that list.

Third, the present cardpool doesn't contain cards before Ice Age and 5th Edition. I've put quite a bit of thought into this format though and haven't really found any pressing reason not to go all the way. It would be relatively simple to fix that by allowing Core Sets from Alpha forward (banning original Duals - the primary reason the older cores aren't allowed is that the original duals would totally obsolete all the other core sets) and building makeshift blocks out of the earlier sets for the purposes of MYOS. Since there're exactly 6 expansion sets without a block, it's easy to just put 'em together as follows:

"Ancient"-block:
Arabian Nights
Legends
Antiquites

"Utter crap"-block:
The Dark
Fallen Empires
Homelands


And while at it, may as well create the following:
The Gate-block:
Portal
Portal: Second Age
Portal: Three Kingdoms


Since it's presently a casual format, no reason not to houserule those right into the game. Those expansions should be fairly balanced (if anything, "Ancient" would have a few busted cards like Moat, but it should all work out as for the non-busted cards, Ancient would suck and most of the Busted Busted stuff is banned) and would allow for the format to encompass the whole game with all its history (save for the unplayable non-Mana Crypt promos and...like Thunder Dragon due to the lack of Starter?).


Iceage block becomes MVP

Ice Age = Brainstorm and Swords and COUNTERSPELL, and Portent, and... ~ Nightmare
Alliances = Force of Will
Coldsnap = Counterbalance.

CorruptedAngel: Ice Age-block is already a part of it. Turns out that beyond those specific cards, it has pretty much nothing, so it's only played in decks with Kamigawa (Countertop - otherwise the card is crap) and blue decks that really want extra counters. Presently I've seen three playable decks utilizing Ice Age, them being Smennen Fish (from the Invitationals - not amazing, but playable), Ub Faeries (Ancestral vs. Force vs. Shackles is a tough call) and Uw Control (á la Evan Erwin). Really, the most versatile block is probably Tempest, and that's with Cursed Scroll banned. Most aggressive decks want Tempest, all Survival/Recurring Nightmare-decks obviously, reanimator decks, Stax-decks (and overall Tomb/City decks) and so on.


So, it turns out that Weatherlight isn't part of Tempest block. Shit. That's going to make it a bit tougher. Od block is actually interesting. I think it's too late to revive Wombat in Legacy anyway, but I really like the synergy between DoJ and Equal Treatment.

It's too bad Thawing Glaciers is banned.

I guess it'd be completely silly to allow Unlimited/Revised, huh? Man, crazy to think that the core set used to have the best packs in the game.

Unlimited and Revised without duals would be perfectly reasonable. In fact, that would be the first houserule I'd do in a local scene (followed shortly by blocking up the older sets for use in the format). Third would be to unban a dozen cards that are banned for dumderpowered blocks.

Also, Counterspell is in every friggin' set ever, so it being in Ice Age isn't really much of an argument. Just sayin'.


Regarding IBA's last post: Ravnica/Onslaught is a solid 5c Zoo-base - otherwise you just aren't using the sets to their full potential. Rg Beats probably wants Time Spiral (Goyf is good) and something else - I'm personally fond of Odyssey. Grim Lavamancer, Firebolt and Lava Dart are fairly sweet, and you can take Quirion Dryad from 10th that goes nicely with the Flashback.

Kird Ape really requires Stomping Grounds to be worth playing and that forces Ravnica, which is otherwise rather mediocre for red aggro (beyond Char, all the playable stuff is multicoloured and there're no Goyf-level bombs). 10th+TSP+Odyssey/Tempest is quite reasonable. 9th+TSP+Ravnica is a real old Standard but it's quite solid for the archetype too. Still, my experience is that Mogg Fanatic, Grim Lavamancer and company are better than singleminded beats.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It's silly to have two threads for this- can we just move the posts from the Adept thread into here, and delete the Adept version?

[Eldariel]

Yes.

EDIT: So yea, done and done.

[freakish777]

the guy who plays Rites of Flourishing wins (on the merit of not getting attacked by anyone).

That means the people you're playing with are really bad at threat assessment. Seriously, anytime anyone wants to give me extra cards, or extra land drops, or extra mana (Heartbeat of Spring/Mana Flare) or free spells (Eye of the Storm, Aluren) that person has to die, because they're doing something way more rediculous with it than anyone else at the table can by themselves.

[C.P.]

For Make your own Standard,

How Good is Urza's Saga - Ice Age - a base set Ub Trix?

It'd run Brainstorm, LDV, and Diabolic Vision with Force and Counterspell as a protection. 7th(for duress and painlands) seems like a good fit for this.


Or Odyssey - Time Spiral - 7th Ichorid. It also seems reasonably strong.

[freakish777]

For Make your own Standard,

How Good is Urza's Saga - Ice Age - a base set Ub Trix?

It'd run Brainstorm, LDV, and Diabolic Vision with Force and Counterspell as a protection. 7th(for duress and painlands) seems like a good fit for this.


Or Odyssey - Time Spiral - 7th Ichorid. It also seems reasonably strong.


Hm, you'd also get Dark Rit maybe? Also, Ice Age has Disenchant (useful out of the board).

EDIT: Why 7th? Duress is in Saga (could try another set for other lands or other utilitiy)...

[C.P.]

Hm, you'd also get Dark Rit maybe? Also, Ice Age has Disenchant (useful out of the board).

EDIT: Why 7th? Duress is in Saga (could try another set for other lands or other utilitiy)...

You're right. I missed that big time. But what would be better set then? ones with mana leak?



So far you have:

Combo:

4 Illusion of Grandeur
4 Donate

Draw

4 Brainstorm
4 Lim-dul's Vault
4 Portent

Protection

4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell


that's 32 cards.

Assuming about 24 mana source, that opens up some slots.

EDIT:

Perhaps some bounce spells will be nice. Rescind or boomerang comes to mind.

[freakish777]

Let's go 10th, Ice Age, Saga:

Combo (8)

4 Illusion of Grandeur
4 Donate

Draw (10)

4 Brainstorm
3 Lim-dul's Vault
3 Portent

Control (18)

4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Rescind
4 Pyroclasm

Lands (24)

4 Terramorphic Expanse (Brainstorm + fetch...)
4 Underground River
4 Shivan Reef
2 Swamp
8 Island
2 Plains


Sideboard:

4 Flashfreeze
3 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Pyroblast
4 Deathmark


Alternatively white over red gives to Disenchant, Jotun Grunt, Hail of Arrows.

[C.P.]

Let's go 10th, Ice Age, Saga:

Combo (8)

4 Illusion of Grandeur
4 Donate

Draw (10)

4 Brainstorm
3 Lim-dul's Vault
3 Portent

Control (18)

4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Rescind
4 Pyroclasm

Lands (24)

4 Terramorphic Expanse (Brainstorm + fetch...)
4 Underground River
4 Shivan Reef
2 Swamp
8 Island
2 Plains


Sideboard:

4 Flashfreeze
3 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Pyroblast
4 Deathmark


Alternatively white over red gives to Disenchant, Jotun Grunt, Hail of Arrows.

I don't think you really need Red. I think you;re better off running some more blue and black utillity spells with more stable manabase. Pyroclasm can be something like Terror if you feel the need for killing aggro.

[freakish777]

I don't think you really need Red. I think you;re better off running some more blue and black utillity spells with more stable manabase. Pyroclasm can be something like Terror if you feel the need for killing aggro.


The manabase seems really strong though. Terramorphic, while not an Onslaught fetchland, does what we want it to, Fix mana, shuffle away dead cards with Brainstorm. Also, Pyroblast out of the board seems really strong.



Similar topic, why not Onslaught, Saga, + random base set for Goblins? You'd have the Lackey->Gangbang + Piledriver kill, and could run black for Bidding (maybe 7th for Duress and painlands... hm, notice a trend here?). Saga has some other Goblins (Cadets) and burn spells.

[Eldariel]

Freakish: That's a popular deck, actually. Onslaught+Urza+10th Rg Goblins with Lackey, Fanatic, Incin, Warbeef, Driver, Matron, Pyromancer, SGC and Clickslither, along with possibly some spells (such as Incinerate et al. - no Ringleader; btw, Onslaught/Invasion/7th for Ringleader/Matron is solid too), SB Naturalizes (Engineered Plagues from 7th are also quite popular in black decks, since black decks tend to want 7th for Duress anyways) and business as usual.

Lands are reduced to Goblin Burrows, Ghitu Encampment and Shivan Gorge/Keldon Necropolis depending on the exact sets chosen though - not exactly Wasteland/Rishadan Port. So it's not nearly as versatile and impressive a deck as it is in Legacy, but it's still quite alright. Control is much tougher on it without Ringleader, Waste, Port and Vial though, and decks like WW tend to disassemble Goblins for breakfast.


As far as combo goes, yes, Ice Age has all the basic support, but unfortunately lacks a combo of its own and few key cards. For example, Ice Age/Time Spiral/9th Dragonstorm is quite good (Lim-Dul's Vault, Brainstorm, Portent, Dark Ritual, Seething Song, Rite of Flame, Lotus Bloom along with Force/Pyroblast/etc. for protection), but without Gigadrowse and Remand, it just isn't the deck it was in Standard. Diminishing Returns, Tinder Wall, Elvish Spirit Guide, etc. exist too, but since Onslaught has absolutely nothing for combo, Ice Age/Onslaught isn't doable (you'd need ways to produce U). You're mostly limited to Dragonstorm, Ignite Memories, Grapeshot/Swath and Empty the Warrens as far as storm goes.


Really, the best performing combo-deck I've seen in the format is Painter's Stone (Lorwyn/Tempest). It gets to cheat with Tombs, Lotus Petals and all that while still playing a solid control-game between 7th (Force Spike, Counterspell, Duress, E.Plague), Thoughtseize, Counter, Cryptic, etc. However, since the win condition is a 1/3 creature, you can imagine how red decks may be a friggin' huge problem. And decks with Needle aren't really fun either with only Cryptic and counters to deal with that. Even then, it does beat up on many midrange- and control-decks by being the better control.

[KillemallCFH]

I've been really interested in MYOS for a while now, but unfortunately don't really have anyone to play it with, so most of my decks are unrefined and untested. This is off the top of my head, since the decks are at my home computer, but it should be about right:

UGw Thresh (OD-IA-10)

4 Goose
4 Werebear
2 Enforcer

4 BS
4 Portent
4 Predict
2 Mental Note

4 Counterspell
4 Rune Snag
4 FoW

4 StP

2 Pithing Needle

18 Lands

SB contains Naturalizes/Disenchants, more Needles, Binding Grasp, and some other things I'm forgetting.

I also have a Ub Planeswalker/Tog Control (OD-LRW-7) list that I like a lot (not sure how good it is though). I forget the list, but it involves Tog (obviously), Jace, Liliana, Shadowmage Infiltrator, some Duress/Seizes, Ponder, Force Spike, Counterspell, Cryptic Command, Cunning Wish, Ghastly Demise, and some other cards. I'll post it when I get home.

Also, I've tried Monogreen Elves (US-LRW-some core set), Trix, Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience, Eva Green (which didn't really work out), Geddon Staxless Stax (which seems really cool, but I'm not sure if its really doable, since it requires 3 Blocks [Mirroden, Tempest, Saga]. My version runs MR-TE-6, Chalice, 3sphere, Sphere of Res, Geddon, Crucible, Waste, Exile, some 3WW recurring angel from Tempest, WoG.).

[landstill101]

The best formats are by far Cube draft(already explained above) prob because the first time we did it( A friend I know acutually has the cad base to build the cube) I actually had a game with a first turn collusus with tinker and power, we have done many things with it from teams to general......lots of fun.

The next one is peasant magic, and for anyone who doesn't know is this is regular magic except your deck can not have any rares and only 5 uncommons and the rest commons. There is nothing banned, right now these are the popular decks.

Solidarity(actually faster than the legacy version because of frantic search. turn 3 kill 95% of the time)
elves(crazy life gain and mana then using torch to burn the player away.skullclamp is nutz)
affinity( with 4 sol rings this deck is very fast.)
mono black land destruction.(sinkhole= common, stripmine = uncommon)
BG madness( wild mongral =common)

Our meta were one of the first to play EDH and have broken it farther than any other meta(yes my opinion) our meta has grown soo huge in this we have taken out the 1 general to a person rule because we ran out. We have between 30-40 decks floating around. The one thing we found was there were way to many combos that were easily used, but after playing the format soo long, many people kno how to stop them so the games don't become broken, right now thou we have added our own rules(and own banned list since we feel we have tested more cards than the banned list makes) we have banned extra turn cards because almost every deck has found a way to take infinate turns or just take 2 or four with trickbind, fork, and richote and be able to combo off with those turns. Another suggestions, ban any double mana producers which really slows down combos.

[C.P.]

White Winnie, Champions - Onslaught - 4th.


4 Svannah Lions
4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 White Knight
4 Siver knight
3 True Believer // Samurai of pale Curtain // Kami of ancient Law
4 Exalted Angel

4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Amageddon
3 Disenchant

19 Plains
4 Mishra's Factory

Some number crunching is in order, but I like the rough draft.
You also have solid SB option in Needle, Ghostly Prison, ETC.

[Ectoplasm]

That means the people you're playing with are really bad at threat assessment. Seriously, anytime anyone wants to give me extra cards, or extra land drops, or extra mana (Heartbeat of Spring/Mana Flare) or free spells (Eye of the Storm, Aluren) that person has to die, because they're doing something way more rediculous with it than anyone else at the table can by themselves.

Why? There's like 4 other people to keep him in check at any time!

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Shit, I'm just tempted to start an MWS tournament for MYOS now. Anyone up for this?

[Hummingbird TG]

Me, though I've no idea what to play and will probably scrub out. Start a new thread for it or something, though?

[freakish777]

the guy who plays Rites of Flourishing wins (on the merit of not getting attacked by anyone).


Why? There's like 4 other people to keep him in check at any time!


Let's take an example from one of my play groups, long ago:

Player A is playing Manaflare (before Heartbeat got printed). They play it and it resolves. When they untap, they make a lot of mana, and then they play Early Harvest to make a bunch more mana. Then some draw spells. Then 2 players are dead after a Tendril's of Agony and they're sitting on over 50 life, and a full grip to dig into the next Early Harvest and try and kill someone else next turn.

The next time they played that deck, they didn't get to untap after they resolved Manaflare.

The game after that, everyone dumped their creatures on the board with the extra mana, and then someone Disenchanted the Manaflare before they got to untap with it.

Here's another example that's a bit more recent:

Player A plays Howling Mine. I suspect somethings up and attack him on my turn. Their next turn they play Miser's Cage. I continue to attack him. Then he play's Ghostly Prison, I pay mana to attack him. Then Armageddon. When I draw lands, I pay mana to attack him. I end up winning that one instead of player A winning.

Your opponent is willing giving you cards or mana? You have to ask yourself why. Chances are pretty good they have some game winning combo they're trying to pull off. Any time you see cards that do that, you should be assigning a high threat value to that card/player.

If the player with Rites of Flourishing keeps winning because no one attacks him (and everyone assumes "Someone else will do it") then you're doing something wrong (whether it's not assigning correct threat values, or making bad assumptions).



Here's a list of things you can't assume in chaos multiplayer:

You can't assume other players have good threat assessment (to know what cards and positions are game winning and which aren't, so you probably have to take care of those threats yourself, in the better play groups I've been in when someone has the clear cut best position, usually the rest of the board gangs up on them, this is because of the next thing you can't assume), and be able to determine and attack the clear cut biggest threat on the board (whether the biggest threat is an individual card like Akroma Angel of Wrath, or a player with a dominating position).

You can't assume other players are able to (help you) deal with the clear cut biggest threat on the board (say Akroma Angel of Wrath is the biggest threat to everyone, someone cheated it out reanimator style on turn 3, while you're all sitting on 2/2s, if someone has a black deck and you know they have Diabolic Edict, you can't assume they'll draw it in time. If everyone has two 2/2's you should probably start attacking even though you'll lose creatures along the way to try and bring them down to a life total where someone has a chance of beating them, otherwise you're handing them the game on a silver platter, in the example with Heartbeat of Spring, you can't assume someone has drawn a Disenchant and "oh someone will deal with it," if you can't Disenchant it yourself, you need to be attacking).

In situations where there isn't a clearl cut biggest threat (but at least 2 players have better positions than other players), you can't assume other players are willing to help you deal with the clear cut biggest threat to you.

There are threats (individual cards) to you (Akroma Angel of Wrath, and a different opponent has CoP White), and to the board (Akroma Angel of Wrath, no one has a way to stop it damaging them, and you're all on relatively the same life total).

There are Threats (a player, player A has 7 cards in hand, 10 open mana, 5 creatures in play, a Crucible of Worlds, an Academy Ruins, manlands, and 2 enchantments) to the board (in most games, player A's position there is overwhelmingly dominating) and to you (player A has the same position, but player B has Squee + Solitairy Confinement).


I would recommend beginning to play where when you realize a card or a player is a threat to the board (everyone) that you personal take responsibility to neutralize that threat (after all, you're part of everyone). If a player keeps winning games with the same card, and you didn't attack that player, or didn't deal with the cards they played with, then chances are your threat assessment isn't as good as it could be. If a player keeps winning games with the same card, and you attacked the player (because you couldn't deal with the card itself after it resolved), and your other opponents didn't, then chances are they're not as good at threat assessment as they could be.

I hope this is a better explanation. Let me know if you want me to clarify anything.




EDIT: @IBA, sure.

[Ectoplasm]

Pretty nice writeup, and though there's (obviously) merit behind it, I'll have to say my own statement contained some irony as well.
The only people who play Rites in my group, are the ones who play kudzu and meloku as well and everybody knows that it's what they'll be playing once they see the different lands hit the table on turn 1 and 2. So usually the first thing that will happen is all terminates and plows will be flung in his general direction.

After that nobody will attack him to profit off of his rites!

Also, my cousin (who is an avid and pretty prolific magic player with 60-70 decks, including various tourneydecks for vintage and legacy) made a fundeck which only consists of crap that helps other players like wall of shards, time spiral, show & tell, swans and you guessed it, Rites of Flourishing. He loves to play it and other people love it when he plays it so we keep him alive, and often he ends up winning or at least beating some players because he redirected an inferno to a swans with martyrdom.

[freakish777]

I'll have to say my own statement contained some irony as well.


Heh, sorry, couldn't tell if it was being defensive.

[Ectoplasm]

Heh, sorry, couldn't tell if it was being defensive.

No harm done :) It's just that rites is such a political card, like Mark Rosewater put it in his 49k/49k chameleon colossus column.

[J.V.]

I <3 MYOS IA, Kamigawa, 4th MUC is the tits.

Lands:25
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Scrying Sheets
18 Snow-Covered Island

Creatures:7
3 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
4 Phyrexian Ironfoot

Noncreature Spells:26
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Rune Snag
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Power Sink

Sideboard:15
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Hydroblast
4 Pithing Needle
3 Deflection
3 Squelch

[Roman Candle]

I'd definitely be up for a MYOS tourney.

[Eldariel]

To recap the official MYOS rules:
-Choose two blocks.
-Choose a core set 5th up!
-Build a deck following Legacy- and Block-bannings (listed in the last post for your convenience).


Now, it's again certainly reasonable to Block up the old sets, to allow old cores without duals and to lift some of the Block-bannings, but those aren't parts of the official rules. Also, the only right way to build WW is Kamigawa/Tempest/5th (or 6th if you want extra Jittes in E. Tutors). Kamigawa has the obvious (+Shining Shoal that fools always forget to include), Tempest has Tomb, Cataclysm and evasive beaters (seriously, even Bushido-dudes without stick get stalled but shadows, especially ones with pro-opponent, just get there).

Also, Tempest has two pro-red creatures (Paladin en-Vec and Soltari Priest), which is pretty damn sweet given the amazing red decks you can build in the format. And Cataclysm to complement Armageddon against control and to clean the house with Goblins and all. Tempest would even have Wasteland. But yea, if 4th were legal, things would be different (Swords to Plowshares, Lions, 'Geddon and Factory - I can see why they drew the line to 5th). Even without 4th though, the deck is nuts. Seriously, since Storm-combo isn't doable, WW actually has a good combo match-up and the archetype can draw upon its traditional features to beat up other aggro, and with 4 Geddons, super-evasive beaters and more Geddons from the SB, control is at the very least doable.


Funny enough, Exalted Angel would be good enough to play otherwise, but without Tomb it's just kinda slow (could still be worth it, but really, WW can't afford to spend 7 mana on a threat and have it answered as that basically means you spent two turns doing something that opponent used one turn to answer). So Onslaught/Tempest could play Exalted Angel, but since WW really wants Jitte, that's just not as good as Tempest/Kamigawa. And since Kamigawa/Onslaught can't really support Exalted Angel, Onslaught suddenly becomes not-good-enough too.


And yea, a MYOS tourney would be f*cking awesome. I've actually already played a few of those online and I'll have to say, it's just way too much fun. I also wrote few articles on the format on Magic-League for those interested: #1 (http://www.magic-league.com/article/426/makings_of_a_standard_-_part_one.html)

The writing isn't spectacular (I kinda had to rush 'em out), but the point is there (somewhere). Article #1 is basically the construction of a WW deck and introduction, part 2 is an (old) meta breakdown for Magic-League and introductions on those decks and part 3 is just a random mishmash of better and worse decklists from various people.