B/w Landfill

[Hanni]

I thought the name was pretty catchy, considering this is basically a B/w version of Landstill, minus the Standstills, plus LD.

Anyway, I'm sure this idea has already been posted on here somewhere at some point or another. Basically, it takes much of the B/w Deadguy Ale core but drops most of the direct aggro elements for board control elements in Smallpox and Damnation. Mishra's Factory works extremely well with both of those cards and Tombstalker is an extremely strong finisher on his own. Toss in a couple of Tops to give the deck a quasi-draw engine, and this is what the deck looks like:

B/w Landfill

Lands (24)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
4 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory

Creatures (3)
3 Tombstalker

Spells (33)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Smallpox
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Damnation

Sideboard (15)
4 Duress
4 Extirpate
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Haunting Echoes

The deck is actually very consistent. The maindeck has 15 LD spells, 14 creature removal spells (18 if you count Thoughtseize), and 11 discard effects. Vindicate, Smallpox, and even Thoughtseize serve multiple roles, which help greatly with consistency.

The deck has solid matchups across the entire field. The discard effects, especially postboard with Extirpate, make combo a good matchup. Factory and Tombstalker put on a sufficient clock most of the time. The LD makes other control matchups very good, considering very few control decks can function on only a few lands. The deck also has good aggro and aggro/control matchups due to the amount of spot/mass removal (and LD helps against higher curving aggro decks).

Of course, the deck isn't broken and will oftentimes lose games, too. I'm simply implying that the deck doesn't have any particular glaring weaknesses to most of the format. Sometimes Burn or Ichorid can be a little problematic and sometimes Belcher can just win before the deck can do anything, but for the most part, the deck is pretty solid all around.

I think that by turning the deck into more of a control style deck rather than aggro/control, the problems B/w Deadguy Ale has seem to go away. I cannot think of very many matchups, aside from combo, that get worse by going deeper into the control shell. I do, however, find matchups like control, aggro, and aggro/control getting significantly better by doing this.

Thoughts?

[4eak]

The deck honestly looks a whole lot like Vaka Pox to me. Perhaps you should consider:

Maindeck Crucible of Worlds

I know I very rarely regret having this in the main. Recurring Wasteland, man-lands, and making any sort of Pox effect asymmetrical (both discarding land and saccing it) is extremely good. Since you play Ritual, you should definitely have CoW. I can't tell you how many games I've won from 1st turn CoW->Wasteland softlock. CoW is good CA and it gives the deck a lot of options.


Ghostly Prison

You do have StP/Damnation/Smallpox/Vindicate. While these are excellent cards (and I'm not saying you should remove them), I find Ghostly Prisons to be extremely problematic for aggro decks that are mana-light post-LD. This offers long-term tempo disruption and it is very synergistic with the LD plan. This deck isn't going to win anytime soon and prison ensures that you see to live to see your fundamental turn where you switch from control to aggro.

Trinisphere is another thought to consider.

Lands to think about:

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Flagstones of Trokair
Cabal Pit

peace,
4eak

[Hanni]

I've never looked in the Vaka Pox thread before and was not aware that Vaka Pox list was as close as it is to this one. While I don't think I'd want to run Pox in this list, if a mod feels that merging the this thread into that one would be a good idea, that's fine with me.

As far as trying Prisons and Crucibles, I'll test those out when I get some time.

[SuckerPunch]

Yeah, the deck is only a few cards off from Vaka Pox.

Actually, most versions of Vaka Pox only run 2 Poxes, so the decks are maybe 8 cards apart.

I'm sure it's cool to have a seperate discussion here though, as you're not playing any Poxes and are running more removal ala. StP and Damnation.

But I think two techs that you should absolutely borrow from them for this version is Crucible of Worlds and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. They just make both Wasteland and Mishra's Factory that much more nasty and work well with Smallpox as well. Urborg has fantastic synergy with your manabase and all the BB ccs. There's a reason most Pox lists play 3-4 of them (though they do have a route to sac or discard extra copies via Pox effects). If you're willing to go up to 4 Smallpox, then you should run 4 Tombstalker too, as this deck can easily support them. And as already mentioned, Ghostly Prison is very good too.

[Holo_rip]

i am working on a "Landfill" deck too, but it has white as his main color and black as a splash.
the list:

land (22)
3 mishra
3 wasteland
3 bloodstained mire
3 windswept heath
4 scrubland
4 plain
2 swamp

mana stability (3)
3 eternal dragon

kill (6)
3 decree of justice
3 Ajani

draw (3)
3 skeletal scrying

Removal (9)
3 vindicate
2 oblivion ring
4 sword to plowshare

mass removal (2)
2 engineered explosive

utility (9)
2 enlightened tutor
2 humility
2 sensei's divination top
2 crucible of world
1 runed halo

discard (6)
4 thoughtseize
2 extirpate

Here, Ajani is really THE MVP. He fullfill several role : creating a huge threat via his token. Upgrading our own threat under humility. And last but not least, he allow us to have a way to gain life.
Now i am considering dropping the oblivion ring for another vindicate and another mass removal.
Another wake spot seem also to be engineered explosive. Is it really better than WoG ? I think so, but we can still discuss about the pro and cons of it.

Overall, i think that this kind of deck really need some work and attention. I have paytest with a friend against goblin and UGB/UGR tempo Thresh and some landstill variant and it has overall a good MU (for goblin, it depend on the build, skill, and opening hand of the player though).

About your list Hanni, i'm really not a fan of the LD. It seems really clunky (though, sometime a waste softlock help greatly some MU).

Also, add more wincondition, two type seem really low for me.

[Maveric78f]

I would definitely play bitterblossom and jitte in your deck holo. I used to playtest a humility based deck. It was somtehing like this (I can't remember exactly):

Discard: 8
4*thougseize
4*cabal therapy/duress

Humility: 8
4*humility
4*Enlightened tutor/academy rector

Kills: 8
4*Bitteblossom
2*Decree
2*Genju W

Toolbox + Lib Manip: 3
1*Jitte
1*Crucible
1*O Ring
3*Sensei

Board Sweepers: 8
4*Vindicate
4*STP

Lands: 23
4*Mishra
5*white fetches
3*black fetches
2*Swamp
7*Plains
2*Scrubland

[jazzykat]

I love smallpox. So, how exactly would standstill be bad in the deck listed in the initial post? Just remove the tombstalkers and you have a really interesting version of landstill.

How smallpox works with a not quite landstill version I still don't know...I would definitelyl put crucibles main to recoup after your small pox's.

[Holo_rip]

The thing is, while smallpox is great in an addapted shell, it will be too symmetrical. It is a great multipurpose card, but it is hard to find the right time to cast it, and it can sometime screw your own gameplan.
Though, i've already play this card in deadguy (two copies), i'll give a shot to it, and then i'll see if it is really worth (moreover, in my version, black is only a splash color, so two black is hard to get sometime).

I really like your list Maverick, but the thing is i don't want to be reliant on humility to win game. In your version, you have to resolve one to be in a good shape. Also, why no drawer ? You're a control deck, and SDT only help you to get card quality. Scrying, or even phyrexian arena could be played.
Though, bitterblossom can really be a beating against all sort of deck (even without jitte).

In m list i've made the following change :
-2 O ring
-2 EE
-1 Eternal Dragon

+1 vindicate
+1 humility
+2 Bitterblossom
+1 land

It has been great till now.

Also, i don't get the point why people don't try Ajani more in white control deck. It really win game by it own. It is usefull in nearly all the matchup (exept maybe combo, cause they don't give you time to capitalize with it).
Against aggro it can be a timewalk, giving you life, and sometime saving you from beeing attacked.
Against control deck it give you a way to put into play a HUGE creature via the avatar ability, and it pump your own creature under humility.
Against aggro-control it help surviving the initial rush by its different ability.

Finally Hanni, i think that a black and white control deck need to be white base. All the powerfull spell that black have need only one colored mana, and having white as your main color allow a more flexible pool card for your maindeck. Moreover, the LD route is nice, but even with 15 LD we'll never win enought match to win a tournament or other (just see the result of Bw Pox), wich is why i have dismissed it.

Holo.

[SuckerPunch]

Actually, I think the most powerful broken tempo effects all cost BB.

Sinkhole, Hymn, Small Pox. Pox too is devastating.

This deck seems to be about assymetric land destruction (with some symmetric Pox effects).

As a pox player, I can tell you that is a very effective strategy against tons of decks combined with stuff like Smallpox and Pox to kill creatures too.

The white splash should be for stuff like Vindicate and Ghostly Prison and StP but that's about it imo.