[Discussion] Finding a Combo Deck

[Dark_Shakuras]

So I'm looking to play Combo in Legacy. I'm just not sure where to start.

Some of the deck's I have looked at are:

TES - Own
FT - I like TES better
Breakfast - Potential
Ichorid - Own
Belcher - Used to play, don't like the dependency on Warrens
SI - TES is better IMO
Grindstone/Painters - I have a grand list, but it's more control, with a combo finish than combo.
IGGy Pop - FT replaced it yes?
Alluern - Is this still viable? It's pretty controlling to me, not quite as combo as I wanted.
Solidarity - Counterbalance > Solidarity


So basically, what is the viability of Breakfast, Alluern, and Painters? Is there any other Combo deck I'm forgetting?

Thanks for helping out guys. Cheers!

[Sanguine Voyeur]

What's your meta like? That may be the most important variable when choosing a deck, even more so with combo.

[freakish777]

Alluern - Is this still viable? It's pretty controlling to me, not quite as combo as I wanted.


It's definitely still viable. Just, you might want Imperial Recruiters to make it more combo feeling (also acceleration like City of Traitors).

[Dark_Shakuras]

What's your meta like? That may be the most important variable when choosing a deck, even more so with combo.

My meta is pretty open. Thresh, Mono-Black, Random Aggro, and lots of CB in decks. For the most part it's underpowered versions of DTB stuff, or just decks packing CB, Discard, or Critters.

Yeah not the BEST meta for Combo, it is why i play Ichorid though, cause little grave hate, but I fully expect hate to come out, after trouncing people with Ichorid so much.

[FoolofaTook]

My meta is pretty open. Thresh, Mono-Black, Random Aggro, and lots of CB in decks. For the most part it's underpowered versions of DTB stuff, or just decks packing CB, Discard, or Critters.

Yeah not the BEST meta for Combo, it is why i play Ichorid though, cause little grave hate, but I fully expect hate to come out, after trouncing people with Ichorid so much.

You want to play combo in a meta with mono-black and CounterTop present in any real numbers? Why?

[undone]

because

"Counter balance"
Me: Responds "high tide"
"reset, High tide"
Reset, Meditate High tide, Turn about brain storm, opt, impulse, brianfreeze, remand the initial recast before storm trigger resolves.

"Counter balance resolves"

Is fun, after all Counterbalance has 1 key weakness, It needs cards in deck:laugh:

That and combo is fun in this format. So much fun.

[Kuma]

If there's little graveyard hate, Cephalid Breakfast could be a decent choice. You'll beat all the critter decks handily, and depending on your sideboard, you could have a good Thresh matchup. The problem is the discard. Decks like Suicide Black and Eva Green are problematic. You'll probably want to be the control player here; try to establish CounterTop and side in Pernicious Deed.

Cephalid Breakfast can play through a lot of hate. The problem is that there's a lot of hate for it. However, the ability to be combo, control, or aggro depending on the match is awesome. That's what Breakfast has over other combo decks.

[Dark_Shakuras]

Right now I'm leaning towards my Painters list.

The one fear I have about Breakfast is people are getting annoyed with Ichorid, so i'm afraid of Leylines, and lots of Ichorid hate splashing on Breakfast.

[stalkerzero]

I'm still a big fan of my Sensei, Sensei deck. I never did lead it to a top 4 performance but a lot of that was based on poor personal performance.

It's basically mono-blue combo/control (runs counterbalance) that only needs to fear: chalice@1 or 2, needle, and krosan grip. It also runs Back to Basics mainboard which usually draws attention away from your combo pieces by forcing them to deal with B2B before they have enough lands to deal with the other artifacts/enchantments.

Overall, I'd have to say it's largest flaw is a lack of tutor ability for anything but the Tops.

Decklist is posted here in the New deck discussion area.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Dark Belcher is probably the best "true" combo deck in the format IMOP. Numerous people in my meta who are pretty good players have brought TES to the local tournament and all have lost due to the inconsistencies of the deck. I personally dislike both FT and TES because of how they play, very reliant on their cantrips and lands and also easily disrupted. I know how they work, what to cast when, where to stack this, the Doomsday stacks, etc. but I feel they seriously lack the speed and consistencies of decks like Belcher and SI (Belcher is more consistent though). SI is the fastest deck in the format without question and I have recently found out how good Pact SI is.

But in a meta with all the counter-shit why would you play combo? It is just a poor choice. Build up Aggro Loam or something, that deck sounds like it would dominate your meta. Cephalid Breakfast is almost null and void since it dies to the usual hate for Dredge and is even more impacted by Extirpate. You would have to run 3-4 Abeyance in the main just to attempt playing the deck. I really dislike Painter because of how idiotic and simple the combo is; but if the deck works for you play it. There is also a thread I started a while back on Cephalid Life which is really cool but I got sidetracked and abaondoned the deck cause I started playing Dredge and Aggro Loam. Cephalid Life is a very cool combo deck and easily fights through grave hate by just gaining infinite life! But seriously don't play combo in a meta like that, it will just be a constant pain. Aggro Loam or Goblins would both be solid choices.

[FoolofaTook]

because

"Counter balance"
Me: Responds "high tide"
"reset, High tide"
Reset, Meditate High tide, Turn about brain storm, opt, impulse, brianfreeze, remand the initial recast before storm trigger resolves.

"Counter balance resolves"

Is fun, after all Counterbalance has 1 key weakness, It needs cards in deck:laugh:

That and combo is fun in this format. So much fun.

Is this before or after they have Thoughtseized your Reset, Sinkholed your second land, dropped a beater to start the clock and then hymned you for two more cards? Solidarity doesn't strike me as the kind of deck that likes having it's hand and mana dicked with agressively early on. Whoops, sorry, just noticed you were talking only about CounterTop. I guess you could argue that CounterTop doesn't mess with Solidarity as much as it messes with other combo.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Enchantress may be a good option for a deck that can mitigate CB, go toe to toe with black aggro control and Thresh, and dominate most random creature based decks.

[Dark_Shakuras]

because

"Counter balance"
Me: Responds "high tide"
"reset, High tide"
Reset, Meditate High tide, Turn about brain storm, opt, impulse, brianfreeze, remand the initial recast before storm trigger resolves.

"Counter balance resolves"

Is fun, after all Counterbalance has 1 key weakness, It needs cards in deck:laugh:

That and combo is fun in this format. So much fun.

I think you meant:

"Counterbalance triggers"
Me: Responds "high tide"
"Counterbalance triggers"
"reset"
"Counter balance triggers"
"High tide"
"Counter balance triggers"
Reset
"Counter balance triggers"
Meditate
"Counter balance triggers"
High tide
"Counter balance triggers"
Turn about
"Counter balance triggers"
brainstorm
"Counter balance triggers"
opt
"Counter balance triggers"
impulse
"Counter balance triggers"
brianfreeze
"Counter balance triggers"
remand the initial recast before storm trigger resolves
"Counter balance triggers"

"Counter balance resolves x12 times"

Thats also assumming you have enough lands to hardcast and find all that, since they need to spend 1, to top and stop you. Or even look, at putting top on the top. It stops half the spells.

[stalkerzero]

I think you meant:

"Counterbalance triggers"
Me: Responds "high tide"
"Counterbalance triggers"
"reset"
"Counter balance triggers"
"High tide"
"Counter balance triggers"
Reset
"Counter balance triggers"
Meditate
"Counter balance triggers"
High tide
"Counter balance triggers"
Turn about
"Counter balance triggers"
brainstorm
"Counter balance triggers"
opt
"Counter balance triggers"
impulse
"Counter balance triggers"
brianfreeze
"Counter balance triggers"
remand the initial recast before storm trigger resolves
"Counter balance triggers"

"Counter balance resolves x12 times"

Thats also assumming you have enough lands to hardcast and find all that, since they need to spend 1, to top and stop you. Or even look, at putting top on the top. It stops half the spells.

You always try to go off before the counterbalance resolves. Scoop after it resolves.

[Dark_Shakuras]

It triggers every time you play a spell.

Oh i see what you mean, yeah but if they drop it with you having one land in play, it's GG.

[DireLemming]

Another option is Full English Breakfast. It seems to be gaining some popularity. Still vulnerable to graveyard hate though, but to a lesser extend then the Cephalid flavour (in large part thanks to the addition of Stiffle+Naught).

[ParkerLewis]

You always try to go off before the counterbalance resolves. Scoop after it resolves.

That was the problem. And the point. Solidarity doesn't go off on turn 2. Not even 3, for that matter.

When Solidarity will have the resources to go off without auto fizzling, CB will most likely already be on the table.

[Giles]

That was the problem. And the point. Solidarity doesn't go off on turn 2.
It can.



Not even 3, for that matter.

I have done that before.

[Zinch]

I play solidarity and I want to puntualize that Thresh (or any deck for this matter) won't have counter-top online on the second turn every match and if they it, there isn't any clock so you have all the time in the world to find a wish>wipe away with fow backup (they won't sideboard in krosan grips, so counterbalance won't touch the wish)
Also I run 2 spell snare and 4 fow maindeck and 2 spell snare more in the sideboard, so im not so afraid to counterbalance. I believe that people have an irrational fear to this card, and I know is a pain in the ass, but is not the end of the world.

What **cks up solidarity is some heavy discard and land destruction backed up with a clock, so if your meta is full of eva green or pikula, don't take solidarity, if not, consider it (I love this deck, so I would consider it anyway...)

[undone]

Solidaridy should pay 2 cryptics in its variencs slots vs CB based formats.

I am almost tempted to say misdirect is THE card vs black.dec (mis D hymn, mis D sink hole.)

[Bahamuth]

This should probably be in the Solidarity thread, but I'llpost my response here for now.

Solidarity does die to Counterbalance, but so does TES and so does FT. In a list with 4 Grip sideboard we have 6 ways to acces a Grip with Wish, which all cost 3, making them unCBable. We have a realistic chance of getting rid of CB before it turns problematic. I'm not saying it happens al the time or that it makes the matchup favourable, but it certainly helps and Solidarity is surely capable of beating CB Thresh.

About Thoughtseize/Hymn/Sinkhole, yeah Solidarity doesn't like that either. Still, the decks that run those cards usually don't have a clock early on and give you time to recover, especially if you manage to counter the first threat. Also, Twincast really helps in this matchup.

[BreathWeapon]

I don't see a problem with Cephalid, I've been running that deck thru' hate with Living Wish, Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top, Cabal Therapy and Krosan Grips with out much of a problem.

Living Wish -> Vexing Shusher is kind of the nuts, great deck IMO.

[Kuma]

Extirpate can be problematic for Breakfast, but at the same time you're running anywhere from 3-7 discard spells, plus Counterbalance and maybe Abeyance. When comboing, you can sometimes flashback a Cabal Therapy before you get a goyf, Narcomoeba, Ghoul, or Dread Return in the yard, protecting yourself from Extirpate.

Seriously, the deck can answer any piece of hate. I'm surprised it's not played more.