Mainphase Priority/ Vendilion Clique

[danyul]

I was playing against somebody on MWS who kept asking me to stop after my draw step, which I initially found odd as most people ask you to stop during your upkeep for tap effects and whatnot.

He would play Vendilion Clique at the start of my mainphase in order to deny me the chance to play... I dunno, whatever spells I had drawn. Now, I don't know the rules well enough to quote anything but this struck me as suspicious. Can't I play sorcery speed spells before he gets a chance to cast his creature, or any instant for that matter? I think I would have to pass priority before he could play anything, and before passing I have the chance to cast sorcery speed stuffs, yeah?

[Skeggi]

I'm not a judge or anything, but I dare tackle this one:

Yeah.

[danyul]

Ha. I guess I'm just paranoid. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Eldariel]

If he asks for you to stop in your draw-step, you can first play instants but he gets to play his Vendilion all the same. Draw-step is a part of the Beginning-phase (Untap, Upkeep, Draw) and therefore you aren't entitled to play Sorceries yet.

If he did wait until your first Main Phase, you'd have the first priority as the active player and could therefore play a Sorcery-speed spell before he could play Vendilion. As he clearly played Vendilion in Draw-step though, this isn't the case.

[Skeggi]

[snip] who kept asking me to stop after my draw step [snip] He would play Vendilion Clique at the start of my mainphase

As he clearly played Vendilion in Draw-step though, this isn't the case.

Something chafes. Just to be clear: if he wants to play the Clique at the beginning of your main phase, you have priority, so he'll just have to wait (you can play a sorcery). He can play it at end of Draw-step (you can't play a sorcery); however this is not the case as you described it.

[danyul]

He clearly said _after_ my draw step, presumably to be able to snatch whatever I had drawn for the turn. But as I understand it, my draw step ends as soon as I draw my goodies. Sooo, there would be no way for him to snatch what I had drawn before I had a chance to play it...right?

That should have been my original question.

[DeathScythe]

He clearly said _after_ my draw step, presumably to be able to snatch whatever I had drawn for the turn. But as I understand it, my draw step ends as soon as I draw my goodies. Sooo, there would be no way for him to snatch what I had drawn before I had a chance to play it...right?

That should have been my original question.


when the game enters the draw step the active palyer draws a card as a special action (not counting first draw step in the game), after this happened both players will than recieve priority APNAP style so he does have the chance to play the clique in your draw step, which I think is what he wants to do. This play happens a lot in T2 and Block.

For the common info, the only steps in which player do NOT get priority are the untap step and the clean-up step (by default this is)

[Eldariel]

It sounds like he meant "play it after you draw a card/in draw-step" rather than "after the draw-step". Also, while players never get priority in untap-step, the exception DeathScythe was referring to is the fact that if any abilities are triggered during the cleanup step or state-based effect conditions have been fulfilled, APNAP priority is resolved followed by a new cleanup repeated ad nauseum. Discarding a Madness-card at the EOT would for example give players priority after the cleanup.

[danyul]

Thanks for that clarification. I learned something new today!

Also, this game is more complicated than I thought.

[Eldariel]

If there was a lot of new stuff for you in that, I suggest you read the Turn Structure Chart (http://www.essentialmagic.com//rules/turnstructure.asp). It's a quick list of all the phases, the steps and what happens in each.

[danyul]

Fancy. Thanks alot.

[Jaiminho]

If he asks for you to stop in your draw-step, you can first play instants but he gets to play his Vendilion all the same. Draw-step is a part of the Beginning-phase (Untap, Upkeep, Draw) and therefore you aren't entitled to play Sorceries yet.

A note here... If it's clear that you didn't do anything in the draw step and he says he's playing something before passing to the main phase, it's assumed you have already passed priority and he didn't pass it back so the draw step would have been gone. Unless he says something quite stupid that gives you a clue that he wants to play something in the draw step before you have entered the draw step (like "there are effects in your draw step"), then you surely can maintain priority and play things before he can.

Rarely will someone ask to enter the main phase, but I usually do it after I see someone's playing Vendillion Clique.

[Anusien]

A note here... If it's clear that you didn't do anything in the draw step and he says he's playing something before passing to the main phase, it's assumed you have already passed priority and he didn't pass it back so the draw step would have been gone. Unless he says something quite stupid that gives you a clue that he wants to play something in the draw step before you have entered the draw step (like "there are effects in your draw step"), then you surely can maintain priority and play things before he can.
The draw step wouldn't have been gone. If he interrupts you when you draw or immediately afterward, that would generally be fine (although I encourage all players to place their verbal stops while they still have priority. So say, 'I have an effect in your draw step. End my turn'). Everything DeathScythe posted was 100% correct. When you enter the draw step, you draw your card first. It's similar to declaring attackers; it happens automatically, doesn't use the stack, and can't be responded to. Then both players get priority. You get it first and can play spells, but they still get a chance to play spells before we move to the main phase. So even if you pass in your draw phase, the opponent still has to pass before we move to the main phase. And you can't rush it, otherwise there's an incredibly reasonable case to just back up.

[Jaiminho]

The draw step wouldn't have been gone. If he interrupts you when you draw or immediately afterward, that would generally be fine (although I encourage all players to place their verbal stops while they still have priority. So say, 'I have an effect in your draw step. End my turn'). Everything DeathScythe posted was 100% correct. When you enter the draw step, you draw your card first. It's similar to declaring attackers; it happens automatically, doesn't use the stack, and can't be responded to. Then both players get priority. You get it first and can play spells, but they still get a chance to play spells before we move to the main phase. So even if you pass in your draw phase, the opponent still has to pass before we move to the main phase. And you can't rush it, otherwise there's an incredibly reasonable case to just back up.

In a review of what I have written, I ended up leaving some misinformation there. It should have been:

If it's clear that you didn't do anything in the draw step and he says he's playing something before passing to the main phase, it's assumed you have already passed priority and he didn't pass it back, so you lost your chance to play something.