Questions...

[Magician]

okay so my opponeent plays grindstone and has painters in play. I let it resolve. He has mana open to activate. when can I grip and not lose?

i have extirpate and my opponent is dredging cards. when can i extirpate his ichorids if one goes into the GY?

[TSchultz]

okay so my opponeent plays grindstone and has painters in play. I let it resolve. He has mana open to activate. when can I grip and not lose?

i have extirpate and my opponent is dredging cards. when can i extirpate his ichorids if one goes into the GY?

1) You can grip the servant in response to him activating the grindstone. (Or while it is on the stack)

2) I don't see the problem with Extirpating the Ichorid. You can extirpate it any time you have priority. The ability only triggers at the beginning of his upkeep; and even if it didn't, you'd still be able to extirpate it in response to the trigger.

[KrzyMoose]

You can Krosan Grip either Artifact whenever you have priority and not lose.

You cannot play spells while your opponent is actually Dredging. However, when he is done, at the end of the Draw Step, you get priority. Then, you can Extirpate it.

[TSchultz]

You can Krosan Grip either Artifact whenever you have priority and not lose.

If the grindstone resolves, he can activate it before you receive priority. Wouldn't gripping the grindstone not do anything?

[Skeggi]

You can Krosan Grip either Artifact whenever you have priority and not lose. Wrong.

If the grindstone resolves, he can activate it before you receive priority. Wouldn't gripping the grindstone not do anything? It probably makes the Krosan Grip player smack himself in the head.

The way this picture is painted, it goes like this:

Grindstone in play, Servant in play. Grindstone activates and goes on stack. In response Krosan Grip on Grindstone. Because of Split Second nothing can be played until Krosan Grip resolves. Grindstone goes to graveyard from play. Grindstone's ability resolves: library goes completely into the graveyard because Painter's Servant still says all cards are the same color and Grindstone's ability has it all built-in, game is done the next time the milled player would draw a card:


423.4. A player who attempts to draw a card from an empty library loses the game the next time a player would receive priority. (This is a state-based effect. See rule 420.5g.)

It should be played like this:

1) You can grip the servant in response to him activating the grindstone. (Or while it is on the stack)

Grindstone in play, Servant in play. Grindstone activates and goes on stack. In response Krosan Grip on Servant. Because of Split Second nothing can be played until Krosan Grip resolves. Painter goes to graveyard from play. Grindstone's ability resolves: about 2 or 4 cards go from the library into the graveyard; Painter's Servant is in the graveyard and its ability no longer is active, game still has an open outcome (but is probably more favorable for the person who used Krosan Grip).

Check out this article: The Stack (http://www.essentialmagic.com//articles/thestack.asp)

[Zinch]

The way this picture is painted, it goes like this:

Grindstone in play, Servant in play. Grindstone activates and goes on stack. In response Krosan Grip on Grindstone. Because of Split Second nothing can be played until Krosan Grip resolves. Grindstone goes to graveyard from play. Grindstone's ability resolves: library goes completely into the graveyard because Painter's Servant still says all cards are the same color and Grindstone's ability has it all built-in, game is done the next time the milled player would draw a card:





I believe he was saying to krosan grip the grindstone when you have priority and he hasn't play the ability yet

[Skeggi]

okay so my opponeent plays grindstone and has painters in play. I let it resolve. He has mana open to activate. when can I grip and not lose?


I believe he was saying to krosan grip the grindstone when you have priority and he hasn't play the ability yet

When the spell resolves, the active player gets priority again and then can activate the Grindstone on his priority. There is no room for a Grip between resolving of the Grindstone and activating it.

[DeathwingZERO]

If Grindstone and Servant are both in play, the controller of both retains priority until they decide to pass it. If they pass priority at the point that they have assembled the combo and have mana to activate it, they deserve to lose to Krosan Grip.

The only way to get out of this "safely" is to Grip the Servant in response to the Grindstone activation, as Skeggi said. This will cause the Servant to no longer turn all cards color X, and Grindstone will hit randomly, probably only going 2-4 cards deep, as said. If you are totally tech and play with Sensei's Divining Top, you can even activate it once Grip resolves and still before the Grindstone resolves to attempt to put 2 different card colors in the yard.

As far as Ichorid goes, nothing can happen during dredge. Once the number of dredge has been achieved, the active player retains priority, in which they can attempt to cast spells against you. At this point, you have priority and can Extirpate, but no sooner than this.

Hope that clears it up for you.

[Lego]

Once the number of dredge has been achieved, the active player retains priority, in which they can attempt to cast spells against you.

But they're still in their draw step, and can only play instants.

[Skeggi]

But they're still in their draw step, and can only play instants.

You do know dredge-decks don't draw in their draw-steps per se: Deep Anal, Breakthrough and that sort of stuff.

[Anusien]

You do know dredge-decks don't draw in their draw-steps per se: Deep Anal, Breakthrough and that sort of stuff.
They still get a draw step. And at the beginning of that step, as a special action the Active Player draws a card (this doesn't use the stack). Then players get priority to play spells and abilities. It just so happens that the dredge deck replaces this draw with a replacement effect named "Dredge". The point is this: once the player dredges their draw for the turn, the active player gets priority to play spells and abilities. Only once they pass priority can the opponent play Extirpate.
Draw effects on the other player's turn work similarly, except the opponent gets priority first. So if you cycle Street Wraith on my turn, I get a chance to do stuff first before you do.

[Lego]

You do know dredge-decks don't draw in their draw-steps per se: Deep Anal, Breakthrough and that sort of stuff.

Because the previous response was assuming that you weren't able to respond to the draw effect, I was assuming that the player was in their draw step. I thought that was clear. Anusien described it quite well, and as he said, if the Dredge player plays Breakthrough, or any other draw effect, you're free to respond before they can replace any of those draws with dredges :)

[DeathwingZERO]

Since Extirpate is an instant, the answer is still the same. After any dredge effect (including the draw step, if that's what the scenario is calling for), the active player passes priority then you can Extirpate. There's never a time in the game when you cannot cast it after the opponent has dredged and passed priority. Every step or phase a card draw can happen on, an instant can be cast.