[Deck] Secret Swallower

[jakolhops]

This is a mono green control deck that abuses the power of a underplayed card called Natural Order. It can lock down opponets that use enchantments and artifacts as their means of winning/control and can easly race agro/tempo decks. This is my first time attepmting to create this deck, but i think it has some promise and i am looking for any improvments that can make this faster/better.

Origins-
I got the idea from an inquest magazine i was looknig through from a while ago (jan 2002) It was an old extended deck from back in the day when extended was very good. The version was played to a 5-0-1 record by Michael Turian.

New Age List-
4 llanawar elf
4 Fydhorn Elf
4 vexing shusher
4 Viridian Zealot
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Elfish Lyrist
4 Eternal Witness
1 Spike Weaver
3 Kitchen Finks
1 simic sky swallower
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Hellkite Overlord

4 Natural Order
4 Scroll Rack

4 Wasteland
3 Gaes Cradle
8 Forest
4 Wooded Foothill

Although the deck may not seem super explosive it can lock ur opponent with many different interactions by all the cards, and win with a beatstick such as SSS or Nishoba.

Why the cards i chose???

fydhorn and llanawar elves- Early mana, can put the beat, sac to order.

vexing shusher- Makes sure ur opponent isnt countering ur fat spells

Zealot- seems better source of removel then other green critties

Eternal Witness- Best card in the deck as it can bring back anything from Wasteland, to natural order to and of your men that fall or were sacrificed. or even some Fetches.

Spike Weaver- There to give you a chance against aggro or if a storm deck tries to empty their warrens all over ur face. Combined with the eternal witness= you can stay alive for a while. Searchable with the Order.

Kitchen Finks- This is the questionable card in the deck, im not sure i like it much but i couldnt think of anything else, but it does come back after yo sac it to the order, along with 3/2 beats+ life gain it isnt terrible

simic sky swallower- Big, Flying, trampling, untargetable. Search for it with the power of the Force

Phantom Nishoba- If your losing a race he can be better then the SSS, hes also very hard to kill in many cases.

Hellkite Overlord- Fast haste flying trample 8/8. Cheeaaa

Krosan Grip- Nice removal added to the already heavy removel Deck, can offera supsrise to those trying to kill all your creatures that remove stuff. (been moved to Sideboard)

Natural Order- well beeing as teh deck is based around this card id figure i would put 4 of them into teh deck. Can search for teh fatties or any tech you need in the deck.

Wasteland- Well since evey deck including this one plays non basic lands i figure this one is a perfect fit, seeing as you dont need fancy duels because you ALL GREEN BABY! (would only play this land in an all green version.)

Gaes Cradle- Well since theres only a few non-creature spells in your entire deck figure this guy is nice way to boost up the green mana that you lovy to spend on everything.

Forest- Basic lands= evasion and tech B2B naw doesnt hurt, Price of Progress? go ahead. Wasteland?? i dont think so Ultimate Tech.

Wooded Foothills- Thins out the deck and allows your eternal witness to get you more mana if for some reason you need it.



Natural order G/B as posted by Pulp Fiction

4x Llanowar Elves
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Wall of Blossoms
4x Shriekmaw
1x Genesis
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Natural Order
3x Animate Dead
4x Thoughtseize
2x Verdant Force
1x SSS
1x Hellkite Overlord
1x Phantom Nishoba

4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Bayou
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Forest
3x Swamp
1x Volrath's Stronghold








Let me know what you think of this deck as i beilive it can be strong, and it seems very easy to play.

Any upgrades or even color splashes can be fine, but remember Natural order only works on Green Creatures.

[Jaynel]

Consider running Viridian Zealot instead of Scavenger Folk and Elvish Lyrist; it can help free up some slots. Also, 3 Krosan Grip in the maindeck (in addition to the critters that hit artifacts and enchantments) seems a bit much.

Hellkite Overlord is a very large, angry green critter that might be good with Natural Order.

Potentially more shuffle effects and Sensei's Divining Top/Sylvan Library to give you a not-terrible late game.

[The Rack]

A friend of mine plays Natural Order and is basically obsessed with the card and he plays blue. Reason is for cantrips like Brainstorm, Ponder, and whatnot to get that fatty back into your library. He also plays Mystical Tutor because you always want to have a Natural Order or else you're dead. Elvish Lyrist, Scavenger Folk, and Uktabi Orangatuang are basically vanilla's. I would suggest 2-3 Viridan Zealot and be done with Arti/Enchant removal after that. With a few slots open put in Tarmogoyf. If you can't afford it, I'd go with Ravenous Baloth, he never gets StPed and always get's you out of sticky situations. Grips probably shouldn't be mainboard material I would go with another solid green creature like Ohran Viper or somethng. Good luck with the deck!!!

[morgan_coke]

I think this deck really, really wants primal order in it to go with natural order. also, I'd cut the lyrist/scavengers for some viridian zealots. Finally, cut the sky swallowers and other creatures you can't cast for some of the g/xg/xg/xg/xg/x hybrid creatures from shadowmoor and eventide. That way you can hardcast your fatties and sometimes you'll just explode and drop them on t3. Some equipment may also be useful here as a way to make your small utility critters into good beatsticks.

Finally, load up the sideboard with Thorn of Amethysts and similar for combo.

[Willoe]

With Hellkite Overlord, Natural Order finally got a viable win condition. Me thinks that this could actually be competitive? If not, then it's always fun.

The relevant ability of the Overlord (except being damn fast-beating) is it's regeneration. Unfortunately, it hasn't shroud.

If Hellkite Overlord's not good enough, there's always SSS.

I'll not feedback on your deck as I honestly don't know what a good Secret Force deck could look like. But I'll try to brew something, then reply.

[MTG Guru]

A friend of mine plays Natural Order and is basically obsessed with the card and he plays blue. Reason is for cantrips like Brainstorm, Ponder, and whatnot to get that fatty back into your library. He also plays Mystical Tutor because you always want to have a Natural Order or else you're dead. Elvish Lyrist, Scavenger Folk, and Uktabi Orangatuang are basically vanilla's. I would suggest 2-3 Viridan Zealot and be done with Arti/Enchant removal after that. With a few slots open put in Tarmogoyf. If you can't afford it, I'd go with Ravenous Baloth, he never gets StPed and always get's you out of sticky situations. Grips probably shouldn't be mainboard material I would go with another solid green creature like Ohran Viper or somethng. Good luck with the deck!!!

Or you could use Scroll Rack instead of splashing blue for Brainstorm.

[Illissius]

I've been thinking about Natural Order decks for a while now, so far the list I like best is this Rock-like one:

4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Eternal Witness
4 Shriekmaw
1 Tombstalker
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Natural Order
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Verdant Force

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou
5 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Tropical Island
1 Volrath's Stronghold

SB: 4 Choke
SB: 4 Kitchen Finks
SB: 4 Extirpate
SB: 1 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Woodfall Primus
SB: 1 Phantom Nishoba

I think some sort of disruption, whether black or blue, is essential, because getting Natural Order countered is going to be painful. And like any other deck, you need to have a solid game plan even without your key card (and so they don't just swarm around the fattie you Order out and kill you). Rofellos lets you cast expensive things (Order, Deed, Shriekmaw, Order targets), and is basically just more powerful than a simple mana elf, I think. The singleton Dryad Arbor which you can fetch makes sure you have a green creature to sac (and that you don't have to sac a Tarmogoyf).

I am not yet sure where Hellkite Overlord fits in.

The other shell I think could be promising is a Threshold shell with 12ish green critters including bears, 3-4 copies of Natural Order, and a single SSS.

[freakish777]

I think Woodfall Primus should be main. I also think the deck should be UG for Brainstorm, Force, Ponder and Daze...



EDIT:


In fact, here's a list for people to mess around with.

1 SSS
1 Woodfall Primus (Stone Raining a land will actually be useful, getting 1/1s every turn doesn't seem worthwhile, maybe against Goblins, but that deck isn't popular at the moment)

1 Llanowar Elves
4 Werebear
4 Birds of Paradise (or maybe Fyndhorn Elves)
4 Goyf

4 StP
4 Daze
4 FoW
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Natural Order
3 Counterspell (? Maybe this should be Armageddon? Or something useful?)

18 Lands


But, so far it seems like a positive match up against straight UGw Thresh, and should have roughly the same types of match ups as it does (slightly worse Combo match, slightly better aggro match?).


EDIT #2: You know what? I demand this thread be renamed Secret Swallower. Because you're basically going to grab it 99% of the time.

[Watcher487]

Hellkite Overlord is a very large, angry green critter that might be good with Natural Order.

Potentially more shuffle effects and Sensei's Divining Top/Sylvan Library to give you a not-terrible late game.

I'm going to have to agree with Jaynel here on these thoughts. Top/Library gets this deck back to where it should be as either a 1 or 2 color deck. There really is no need for 3-4 colors just to cast the monsters.

Side note: Lately I've been testing Primalcrux as the 4th option beater, while it's not as good as it could be turn 2-3 later in the game it simply becomes amazing with all of the double green and triple green CC's the deck has.

[MTG Guru]

Isn't Scroll Rack more efficient at putting back unwanted critters than Library/Top?

[Jaynel]

Isn't Scroll Rack more efficient at putting back unwanted critters than Library/Top?

Well, yes. But it involves more investment. The way I see Top or Library being utilized is to make sure the fatties never end up in your hand in the first place.

Either way, I think 6-8 fetchlands would be needed to support something like that.

[Pulp_Fiction]

If you really want to jam all kinds of different colors into the deck just cut the Fyndhorn Elves and play Birds of Paradise. Also, this deck seems like a brilliant fit for Wall of Blossoms. As far as splashing another color goes, blue just seems sub par. Jamming counterspells into a deck like this seems terrible. Black would be the color to play for Cabal Therapy and Shriekmaw. Pernicious Deed seems awful as well since you play a bunch of weenies. Hell, you could even turn this deck into a pseudo-reanimator by putting in Wild Mongrel and some other discard outlet and running Animate Dead or Reanimate. I would like to see this deck make some form of splash in the format as it is very unexpected, shhh, its secret :) I lost to a 3rd turn Verdant Force when I was playing Aggro Loam a while back, it was .... unexpected to say the least! Here is a rough list off the top of my head:

4x Llanowar Elves
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Wall of Blossoms
4x Shriekmaw
1x Genesis
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Natural Order
3x Animate Dead
4x Thoughtseize
1x Verdant Force
1x SSS
1x Hellkite Overlord
1x Windfall Primus

4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Bayou
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Forest
3x Swamp
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Thoughts?

[MTG Guru]

Well, yes. But it involves more investment. The way I see Top or Library being utilized is to make sure the fatties never end up in your hand in the first place.

Either way, I think 6-8 fetchlands would be needed to support something like that.

I really like Scroll Rack becuase you never want to take the chance of seeing a fattie in your opening hand. I made a list a few weeks back that ran Scroll Rack and Tithe to generate additional card advantage. I haven't tested it yet but I'll get back to you on that, when I do.

[Illissius]

4 Birds of Paradise (or maybe Fyndhorn Elves)


Or maybe Nimble Mongoose, and then you're pretty close to my idea for the Threshold model of the deck. Shroud also has the advantage that they can't easily deny you a green creature to sac.

Last few cards could be splash for Thoughtseize, Mental Note (with 8 real Threshold critters), Trygon Predator... or Countertop, but that needs more room. Would be a nice surprise from the board, with no artifacts or enchantments maindeck.

[MTG Guru]

If you really want to jam all kinds of different colors into the deck just cut the Fyndhorn Elves and play Birds of Paradise. Also, this deck seems like a brilliant fit for Wall of Blossoms. As far as splashing another color goes, blue just seems sub par. Jamming counterspells into a deck like this seems terrible. Black would be the color to play for Cabal Therapy and Shriekmaw. Pernicious Deed seems awful as well since you play a bunch of weenies. Hell, you could even turn this deck into a pseudo-reanimator by putting in Wild Mongrel and some other discard outlet and running Animate Dead or Reanimate. I would like to see this deck make some form of splash in the format as it is very unexpected, shhh, its secret :) I lost to a 3rd turn Verdant Force when I was playing Aggro Loam a while back, it was .... unexpected to say the least! Here is a rough list off the top of my head:

4x Llanowar Elves
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Wall of Blossoms
4x Shriekmaw
1x Genesis
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Natural Order
3x Animate Dead
4x Thoughtseize
1x Verdant Force
1x SSS
1x Hellkite Overlord
1x Windfall Primus

4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Bayou
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Forest
3x Swamp
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Thoughts?

This list actually looks really good. Have you considered Crime/Punishment over Deed since it might destroy things your opponent controls and not solely your own, as opposed to Deed's effect?

And what's with the name "Secret Swallower"? I feel a "fellatio in a dark closet joke" brewing up.

[jakolhops]

The funny thing is i was going to name it secret swallower! But i decided against it as people might just laugh at it rather then give it a chance. I like the evolution you guys are putting into this deck, but just remember that you need green critters on the board in order to cast the Order, why i think Vexing shusher should be in every maindeck for this particular deck.

i was thinking of my original design to cut
-2 lyrist
-2 orangutans
-2 scavenger folk
-3 krosan grip
-1 Verdent Force
-2 Kitchen finks

+3 Tarmogoyf
+4 scroll rack
+4 Viridian Zealot
+1 Hellkite Overlord

Seems that the Zealot is a improvment over the other critters and scroll rack prevides a nice way to put Swallowers back into the deck.
the overlord provides a fast haste 8 dmg that green could use, although his regenerate is useless in an all green build, but none-the-less the Haste would be the sole reason.

Then if i subtraxt 1 SSS and 1 Nishoba i still have room for 2 more cards which could be another goyf and maybe a different utility creature?

Although illissius BG version looks really nice too



thanks for all the feedback so far, lets turn this into something!

[MTG Guru]

I'd actually consider running Elvish Spirit Guide and Chrome Mox, as a way to accelerate into a turn two Order. This also would help with getting a Scroll Rack into play quickly or to imprint a useless fattie to Chrome Mox, if need be.

[Anusien]

What about some number of Survival of the Fittest, using that as a backup plan to Natural Order?

[insertnamehere]

You could also use Dramatic entrance to play it from your hand if you get stuck with it.

[The Rack]

I think the deck might as well be called Deep Throat.

[mugs]

Nice name,
Now that you've brought this deck out of the closet.

I have a question after looking over the deck list:

How have you been able to beat off other aggresive decks?

Notabley when they get a good start and are comming really hard at you.

[jakolhops]

With the original decklist, prob not, with the improvments i and other suggested i beilive it can. I will post a V2.0 as soon as we come to a consensus

[Pulp_Fiction]

I have been playing around with the build I posted earlier and it is a lot better than I thought it would be. Animate Dead is disgusting in this deck. Especially when you draw your Order targets. I have had a turn 2 Verdant Force and that was sick. Turn 1 Cabal Therapy self, turn 2 Animate Dead the Force. I have also thoughtseized myself to get the fatties into play, this deck really doesn't need Wild Mongrel as a discard outlet! The deck can assume 3 different roles and all of them are very competetive: Rock-esque aggro, pseudo Reanimator, or Natural Order into fatty. The ladder is the best and I am very impressed with the Hellkite Overlord, the thing ends games fast and with the hand destruction you only have to worry about lucky top decks. And if your opponent will have more than 4x StP just fetch out SSS and wish your opponent luck!!

I think that adding in Chrome Mox would be a mistake as it becomes a useless topdeck later on and really sucks when facing something with Hymns and Thoughtseize. MTG Guru's suggestion of Crime Punishment sounds interesting. You could put 1x Savannah/Scrubland into the deck to support the Crime side if need be but Punishment would be good to have. The deck also seems like it needs a GB monster that sweeps the board when it comes into play. Does anyone know of a card like Bane of the Living but it is G/B or G? I can't think of any off of the top of my head. Also, I think that Phantom Nishoba deserves a spot. By the time he is answered you have such an advantage that it will be game over anyway and this deck will take an autoloss to Burn without it and make the Goyf Sligh match really easy. Woodfall Primus should also be moved to the board as it seems just useless game 1, I haven't tutored for it yet. Here is a revised list of my earlier one:

4x Llanowar Elves
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Wall of Blossoms
4x Shriekmaw
1x Genesis
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Natural Order
3x Animate Dead
4x Thoughtseize
2x Verdant Force
1x SSS
1x Hellkite Overlord
1x Phantom Nishoba

4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Bayou
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Forest
3x Swamp
1x Volrath's Stronghold

The manabase is rock solid and I would not advise Wasteland in this deck, this deck doesn't need tempo advantage, it needs fatty advantage! Also, it mulligans really well and I think adding 4x colorless lands to the deck will only serve to complicate things and mess up some draws due to color issues. The one card I am concerned with is Genesis. Genesis is phenomenal but it feels out of place, however it has won a game or 2 but it has also clogged up a spot in my hand before when I am unable to cast it or discard it. That spot should be condisered open but Genesis wins so many games with Goyf and Shriekmaw recursion that I think it deserves a spot. It helps the Rock-esque portion of the deck perform its role that much better. Any thoughts on this?

[jakolhops]

i really liek what you did with Black giving it many more sources and lasting power. As of now im moved your deck onto the original Post.

Not sure if you can do it, but a presence of Eternal witness seems like a nice fit with the Natural order deck.

[freakish777]

I've been having some fun on MWS with the list I posted. It could definitely use some improvements, but it seems good enough to continue tweaking. I definitely think 3 colors in UGw thresh shell is a good way to take it. And I disagree with Mongoose. You really want to be landing Natural Order on turn 3. Any more time and you're giving Landstill time to land Wrath/Humility (specifically you're giving them time to land it around Daze). Or you're giving players with Deed time to ramp to 7 mana to Deed away Swallower.


A card that should definintely be in the sideboard:

Loaming Shaman

[Happy Gilmore]

Just got back from testing this list:

4 BoP
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shriekmaw
4 Rofellos
2 Simic Sky Swollower
1 Verdant Force
3 Trygon Predator

4 Thoughtseize
4 Natural Order
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deeds
3 SDT

6 Forest
4 Heath
4 Foothills
4 Bayou
3 Tropical Island


Not half bad, Honestly I found Force to be the weakest part of the deck. Wish there was a card with more impact. Swords is bad times.

[Illissius]

You mean other than Simic Sky Swallower? Hellkite Overlord might catch them with their pants down for a turn before going farming, if you're lucky. Verdant Force is mainly good against decks like Goblins, I think (though I'm not sure what's "like Goblins" besides Goblins itself).

If you're splashing for blue wouldn't you rather use Brainstorm than Top?

[Kove]

Hehe, I love the new name of the deck.
Anyway - I too have been thinking about Natural Order decks for a while. Great to see a thread about it.

Just brainstorming here, but I was thinking about a toolbox approach to the deck, kinda like some reanimator decks do - drop huge beatsticks that brings more to the table than just beef. I haven't yet searched through gatherer for green creatures fitting the bill; these are just off the top of my head.

Woodfall Primus
Simic Sky Swallower (well ok this one simply just beats, but sometimes actually staying on the board means it does do something special :wink:)
Molder Slug (maybe sideboard material for Affinity, or painter decks)
Cloudtresher

How about Pattern of Rebirth? Or Defense of the Heart? Only running four Natural Order seems a little ... Little to me. Pattern has nice synergy with those decks running Cabal Therapy and not to mention Natural Order. :laugh:
Defense of the Heart might need a little hand, which could come from Forbidden Orchard perhaps - which could also help hardcast the non-monogreen creatures of the deck.

Man, now I ended up mumbling about things wearing the "beware of cool stuff" stickers. You guys are probably more on the right track than I am. xD

[freakish777]

Molder Slug (maybe sideboard material for Affinity, or painter decks)
Cloudtresher

Molder Slug is awful. Cloudthresher isn't worth running (Faeries isn't exactly seeing tons of play in Legacy).


How about Pattern of Rebirth? Or Defense of the Heart? Only running four Natural Order seems a little ... Little to me.Pattern has nice synergy with those decks running Cabal Therapy and not to mention Natural Order. :laugh:

Pattern of Rebirth is terrible here. Birds + Pattern + Therapy is 3 cards and 6 mana, to get a 7 or 8 mana fatty into play (and get them to discard a card or two?)? Why not just win the game with Painter's Servant + Grind Stone? Birds + Natural Order is 5 mana and 2 cards for a 7 or 8 mana fatty, which at least costs 1 less mana than Painter combo. If you go for 4 Werebear, 4 Goyf, and mana elves/Mongoose (other creatures in general) then trust me, 4 Natural Order is enough. It's not like you can't hardcast these creatures on occassion.


@Happy Gilmore, we can at least agree that UGx is the correct way to take the deck, right (and where is Brainstorm in your list, you're going to want to shuffle fatties back occassionally, also, again, I think Woodfall Primus should be in over Verdant Force, as Stone Raining/Disenchanting + Trample is better that a 1/1 Saproling a turn)?

[MTG Guru]

@The lists running blue - Have you considered Quicken to make your Natural Orders instant speed? EOT Orders seems broken especially if you decide to run Woodripper instead of Molder Slug, if you think artifacts are an issue.

[freakish777]

@The lists running blue - Have you considered Quicken to make your Natural Orders instant speed? EOT Orders seems broken especially if you decide to run Woodripper instead of Molder Slug, if you think artifacts are an issue.

No. Quicken is unplayable in all 40 and 60 card formats. You'll never want to waste a card slot on it. People got all excited when the card hit Standard clamoring "ZOMG, Quicken Wrath!!" and then they quickly went back to playing Wrath in their mainphase. Yeah, it makes it so your guy gets around Wrath for a turn... it's not worth using a card slot though.

[MTG Guru]

I think Woodfall Primus should be main. I also think the deck should be UG for Brainstorm, Force, Ponder and Daze...



EDIT:


In fact, here's a list for people to mess around with.

1 SSS
1 Woodfall Primus (Stone Raining a land will actually be useful, getting 1/1s every turn doesn't seem worthwhile, maybe against Goblins, but that deck isn't popular at the moment)

1 Llanowar Elves
4 Werebear
4 Birds of Paradise (or maybe Fyndhorn Elves)
4 Goyf

4 StP
4 Daze
4 FoW
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Natural Order
3 Counterspell (? Maybe this should be Armageddon? Or something useful?)

18 Lands


But, so far it seems like a positive match up against straight UGw Thresh, and should have roughly the same types of match ups as it does (slightly worse Combo match, slightly better aggro match?).


EDIT #2: You know what? I demand this thread be renamed Secret Swallower. Because you're basically going to grab it 99% of the time.

@freakish - Have you considered Witch-maw Nephilim? It can be searched via Natural Order and can get pretty big with all of your cantrips. It also pitches to FoW, if you're ever decide that you don't want it in your hand.

[freakish777]

No, because it requires you to play spells after you've resolved Natural Order in order to be any good. Ideally it would work, but then if you got the ideal draw every hand, why wouldn't you be playing some version of TES/IGGy that could win through Force on turn 1?

[Illissius]

So I'm pretty sure the new Natural Order toolbox is something along the lines of:

1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Godsire

This is pretty stupid. We used to have a 7/7 who gave us two 1/1s a turn, now we have an 8/8 with vigilance who provides an 8/8 per turn. And Archangel is like SSS and Nishoba in one card. It is bad if: your opponent has 8+ damage, has removal, and you don't have another blocker. I'm not sure if that's a "no other card would have saved you either" situation, but it might be. I guess SSS turns it into a neither side attacks situation if the opposing force is a 3/3 Mongoose and a Tarmogoyf 5/6, neither smaller nor larger.

One drawback is they're significantly harder to hardcast.

[Gheizen64]

They may be harder to hardcast... but they're just stupid.

'specially Archangel with shroud.

[Gaara of the Funk]

Here is a list that i have been contemplating on since i have had massive lul'z with the deck and hopes of making it funner and better to play ( such as a pre-board win against ichorid, it was hilarious)

4 Quasili Ambusher
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Empryial Angel
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Godsire
4 Woolly Thoctar

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Natural Order
4 Engineered Explosives
3 Living Wish
4 Commune With Nature

2 Plateau
4 Heath
4 Foothills
4 Savannah
4 Taiga

[MTG Guru]

Here is a list that i have been contemplating on since i have had massive lul'z with the deck and hopes of making it funner and better to play ( such as a pre-board win against ichorid, it was hilarious)

4 Quasili Ambusher
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Empryial Angel
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Godsire
4 Woolly Thoctar

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Natural Order
4 Engineered Explosives
3 Living Wish
4 Commune With Nature

2 Plateau
4 Heath
4 Foothills
4 Savannah
4 Taiga

Interesting. I don't know what half these cards do. What does your wishboard look like?

[Gaara of the Funk]

Interesting. I don't know what half these cards do. What does your wishboard look like?

have not really sculpted a full sb yet but c-magic hurts like #'s and does not taste good like delicious pizza

[MTG Guru]

have not really sculpted a full sb yet but c-magic hurts like #'s and does not taste good like delicious pizza

Why not just run Burning Wish then, with an Order in the SB? Getting back a Natural Order after an Extirpate is also rather nice, plus you get a better toolbox.

[jakolhops]

these new creatures are very interesting. Perhaps the Order shall see some play. That angel is awsome, u would need a board sweeper to kill it and Deed and explosives cant hope to touch it, very interesting.

[Gaara of the Funk]

Why not just run Burning Wish then, with an Order in the SB? Getting back a Natural Order after an Extirpate is also rather nice, plus you get a better toolbox.

I also considered that but i decided that even though BW can search for NO and other juice, I could get near the same with living wish and it would be less streuous on the manabase, if i tweeked the manabase more yeah BW could be used, but i can also get a threat with the LW.

[Blade]

Have you considered running Gamekeeper? Whats better than 1 creature to N.O.? How about two!

[Lurker101]

Here's my natural order deck.
//Land:20
4 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Forest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Tropical Island

//Creatures:20
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Cold-eyed Selkie
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Simic Sky Swallower
4 Tarmogoyf

//Other Spells:20
4 Natural Order
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Mystical Tutor

//Sideboard
2 Terravore
2 Mystic Snake
3 Krosan Grip
4 Trickbind
4 Xantid Swarm

Coiling Oracle: works as mana acceleration or card draw and is a great target for natural order.
Birds of Paradise: Mana acceleration, you want to be able to play Natural Order before turn 4. Also a good target for natural order.
Simic Sky Swallower: Your chief beater. This is the card you want to use Natural Order for. It is bounce proof and Swords proof which helps.
Cold-Eyed Selkie: Card draw. I wanna cut this maybe for maindeck trickbinds or something.
Brainstorm: In case you draw a Simic Sky Swallower before you can play it this allows you to put it back in your library and, along with fetchlands, shuffle it in.

Sideboard:
Terravore: another card to natural order for, it can get huge and is more useful if your opponent is packing wastelands.
Mystic Snake: Another counter that doubles as a natural order target.
Trickbind: Against storm mainly.
Xantid Swarm: allows you to attack and play Natural Order during your post-combat main phase in case you're worried about counters. Another good target for natural order.

[jakolhops]

Have you considered running Gamekeeper? Whats better than 1 creature to N.O.? How about two!


gamekeeper is a NO NO NO
You need other creatures then fatties in the deck. The chances or getting a smaller creature is alot higher and makes it unpredictible. Just doesnt seem to fit in this deck

[jakolhops]

Hmm just a thought, but most likely more cute then good.
Painters Servant naming Green.
Now every single creature in the game is Orderable.

The only thing i say its more cute then good is because it takes up slots for those non green critters, and takes up space for PS.

It sounds fun, perhaps other things can make it worth while

[idraleo]

I'm trying to incorporate the combo in a more consisten Stax shell. It obv helps against comboish and gives a different way to see the deck. And moreover, the deck could run Dramatic Entrance to help on EOT tricks, wich most of the times is essencial to have our opponent waste some cards. Also, the deck could run something more than Swallowers thanks to Chalice that helps to stop StP. Here is what i' m testing on:

// Lands
10 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest
2 [MM] Hickory Woodlot
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [TSB] Wall of Roots
3 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
2 [EVE] Doomgape
1 [ON] Symbiotic Wurm
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
2 [LRW] Cloudthresher
2 [SHM] Woodfall Primus
2 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower

// Spells
2 [SHM] Dramatic Entrance
3 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [VI] Natural Order
2 [FUT] Coalition Relic
2 [PLC] Harmonize
4 [DIS] Simic Signet

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [VI] Elephant Grass
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [TE] Choke
SB: 3 [BOK] Nourishing Shoal
SB: 1 [DIS] Loaming Shaman

[Pulp_Fiction]

This new creature Empyrial Archangel is an auto-include. If this creature hits play turns 3-6 Thresh and Landstill literally can't win. I recently put this deck back together again (Zoo sidetracked me) and it is still very strong but I made a few revisions to the original list:

4x Wall of Roots
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Wall of Blossoms
4x Shriekmaw
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Natural Order
3x Exhume
4x Thoughtseize
2x Verdant Force
1x SSS
1x Hellkite Overlord
1x Phantom Nishoba
1x Empyrial Archangel

4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Bayou
5x Forest
3x Swamp
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Exhume just works better than Animate Dead. I was so impressed with Animate Dead until I realized that Engineered Explosives destroys it. Since Reanimate ravages you a LOT Exhume is the only other viable reanimation spell. Obviously it is superior in the early game but later on its still a great card to have because your opponent will not have a better creature in their graveyard than you do!

Wall of Roots took the place of Llanowar Elves because all those things ever did is die and later on in the game they just become useless topdecks. Wall of Roots on the other hand still contributes to turn 3 Natural Order and blocks big shit later on in the game! Infinitely useful, after watching Aluren play I saw how underutilized this card really is.

The final replacement was Genesis, it was always the "replaceable" slot but it was nice to have in case, but it was never necessary. Shriekmaw recursion is not necessary to win and it doesn't matter what point in the game you are at Genesis will never be a Natural Order target! So Archangel replaced him and is very satisfactory. I think this deck should take the Eva Green SB but since everything is meta-dependant it will vary. Something like this would be ideal:

3x Krosan Grip
4x Choke
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Engineered Plague

[jakolhops]

is the Verdent Force even needed anymorE??
1/1 every turn doesnt seem at good as godsire

[Roman Candle]

This is what I'm tinkering with:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise

2 Empyrial Archangel
1 Godsire

2 Rofellos, Llanowar Emmisary
2 Quirion Ranger
2 Eternal Witness
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Genesis
1 Shriekmaw
1 Squee
1 Anger

4 Survival of t.he Fittest
4 Natural Order
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress


I think the Survival plan gives the deck a lot of redundancy, and I like how the Quirion Rangers and Birds can let you hardcast your fatties (its not likely, but it is possible). Now, you have eight ways to go "Oops, I guess I win" in the early turns. The disruption package is really nice to have. The Rofellos/Ranger engine seems kinda outdated and may be unnecessary, I have to do some more testing. One of the biggest things we lose from other Survival lists is Dark Confidant, but I'm not sure I like the thought of flipping up Angels and Godsires to him, or even Natural Order for that matter. We also have to use up slots on mana critters and fatties, slots Survival can use for utility (Teeg, Big Game Hunter, Magus). I don't know if the "oops, I probably win" factor of Natural Order outweighs the utility that normal Survival gets to play.

[Pulp_Fiction]

I am old school and will always run Verdant Force when I can (for the nostalgia value as well as other reasons) because this deck literally was Secret Force back in the day. Now Godsire is really good, I personally don't like the card because it has no immediate effect due to summoning sickness. Verdant Force just owns Goblins and doesn't care about Engineered Explosives because of how rapidly it multiplies those damned saprolings. I did forget that Godsire had vigilance which was a serious plus to the card and he certainly merits testing but I just like Force better because he will be immune to any and all Edicts which will actually be played on you and the sheer number of blockers Force can make will win games just as easily as 8/8s can as well as providing a hell of a good defense against swarming opposing aggro deck. And I have seen people SB in Engineered Plague just for Verdant Force saprolings and that is another reason I would want to keep it in the deck.

@ Roman Candle: I like the new idea but Survival isn't the way to go with Natural Order IMOP. RGBSA would just be a stronger deck to play so the question would be why put Natural Order in a deck that is already tier 1 and very strong when you could just build that deck with its insane amounts of utility? It does just seem redundant running Survival in this deck but it may work, I haven't put it together so I can't say for sure, but what it looks like is that it is heavily dependent on SotF and will have infinitely more useless topdecks when Survival gets removed or Needled. From what I have tested, the semi-Reanimator approach is probably the way to go. Put my build together and compare the 2 and see which one is more consistent. I am actually curious to find out!

[Illissius]

Roman Candle: I have a list that is only a few cards different from that one (like, for example, Thoughtseize over Duress).

I have four different approaches I'm considering for Natural Order.dec: Survival, The Rock, Elves, and Threshold. The only constant is that you need some kind of protection, because getting Natural Order countered really sucks (and Survival is also a better card when it resolves). Black has Thoughtseize and Therapy, while blue only really has Force of Will.

I wonder if there's any Survival target you can profitably use to cheat your Natural Order targets into play. Doomed Necromancer?

Also, you know what's disgusting? Godsire with Quirion Ranger.



The Rofellos/Ranger engine seems kinda outdated and may be unnecessary, I have to do some more testing.

They certainly seem less valuable than back when you could actually use them to cast your monsters (i.e. Verdant Force). And I'm pretty sure that 12 mana critters is too many, either way (while not stating a preference on which ones to cut).

[Iare]

Roman Candle: I have a list that is only a few cards different from that one (like, for example, Thoughtseize over Duress).

I have four different approaches I'm considering for Natural Order.dec: Survival, The Rock, Elves, and Threshold. The only constant is that you need some kind of protection, because getting Natural Order countered really sucks (and Survival is also a better card when it resolves). Black has Thoughtseize and Therapy, while blue only really has Force of Will.

I wonder if there's any Survival target you can profitably use to cheat your Natural Order targets into play. Doomed Necromancer?

Also, you know what's disgusting? Godsire with Quirion Ranger.




They certainly seem less valuable than back when you could actually use them to cast your monsters (i.e. Verdant Force). And I'm pretty sure that 12 mana critters is too many, either way (while not stating a preference on which ones to cut).

Boseiju, who shelters all is kinda clunky but it will make the blue mage :cry: every time :wink: Seems like it should warrant an inclusion in the board for this deck. Beyond that the conventional wisdom is black is your best bet for picking off counters.

[Roman Candle]

Roman Candle: I have a list that is only a few cards different from that one (like, for example, Thoughtseize over Duress).

I have four different approaches I'm considering for Natural Order.dec: Survival, The Rock, Elves, and Threshold. The only constant is that you need some kind of protection, because getting Natural Order countered really sucks (and Survival is also a better card when it resolves). Black has Thoughtseize and Therapy, while blue only really has Force of Will.

I wonder if there's any Survival target you can profitably use to cheat your Natural Order targets into play. Doomed Necromancer?

Also, you know what's disgusting? Godsire with Quirion Ranger.




They certainly seem less valuable than back when you could actually use them to cast your monsters (i.e. Verdant Force). And I'm pretty sure that 12 mana critters is too many, either way (while not stating a preference on which ones to cut).

Whoops, those are supposed to be Thoughtseizes, I just typed the list wrong. And yeah, I agree that 12 mana critters is probably too much, but I want to play around with it some more before I decide what to cut.

As for a SotF target that puts fatties into play, the only things I can think of are Doomed Necromancer and Elvish Piper... and I dunno if either are worth the deckslots. I mean, if SotF resolves, you generally win, so I don't think it's necessary.

[Just me]

This deck looks like it wants to go turn 1 Birds/Elf, turn 2 ??? and turn 3 Natural Order.

How about a three drop in the deck? Sprouting Thrinax seems the prefect fit. Saccing it still leaves you with 3 power of creatures, protection from Edict-effects and it's a great blocker against aggro (and aggro draws from decks like Thresh or Trash). Kitchen Finks is also a strong 3 drop since it comes back and gains life and it's still a solid beater.

4 Birds
4 Elves
4 Goyf
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Empyrial Angel
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Simic Skyswallower
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Natural Order
3 Shriekmaw (Pernicious Deed in this build might be better)
4 Bayou
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
5 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold