[Deck] Elf Aggro

[technogeek5000]

The current list as of August 2010:
12 Forest
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Wasteland
2 Gaea's cradle
3 Root Maze
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Llanowar elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
2 Wren's Run vanquisher
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Packmaster
2 Viridian Zealot

4 Chalice of the void
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Krosan Grip
2 Wren's Run Vanquisher
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Thorn of Amethyst

______________________________________________________________________________________
Note: Im a big elf fanatic. I have been playing elves on and off ever since I started playing magic. If Eladamri was still good I would be playing elves instead of Aggro Loam.

So, yeah, there are way to many elf threads on these boards. I see them, and having played this deck since eladamri got its first errata, and I realise that most of these are set up to fail. There are elf chalice aggro, staff combo, and plenty of other less then viable builds in the old Crystalline elves thread. The only elf deck that I have seen since january that I have liked was the elf deck Dave Feinstein toped 4 at in Pawtucket, RI. I do believe that elves, while not as strong, can be a cheaper alternative too Goblins. After plenty of testing, innovations others have made, and some discussions with other players via PM I have come to this list which I believe is extremely tailored to the modern metagame and is very strong. If you are looking for something to base off of, I strongly suggest using this list as a start.

Elves(33):
4 Sylvan messenger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Viridian Zealot
3 Wren's Run Packmaster
Utility(8):
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Lands(19):
14 Forest
2/3 Wasteland (their is no right answer, this ones totally up to you)
2/3 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard(15):
4 Leyline of the Void/Tormod's crypt (I prefer Leyline for reasons I will state later)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Root Maze
4 Wren's run Vanquisher

Review of Gameplan:
The deck plays out, in a way, too Goblins... but there are some noticeable differences. Priest of titania and cradles are essentially goblins aether vial and lackey as they are cards that allow you to bring in unfairly high costed cards easily and it also has its own ringleader. Elves have a slightly better time against sweepers then Goblins in my opinion because they run symbiotes and Packmasters. Symbiote is great at nerfing opposing target removal (let them waste spells removing symbiote if they choose) and it has a inborn synergy with Sylvan messenger: bring back messenger from your hand and replay it to look through an extra 4 cards a turn while untapping mana producers or Imperious perfect. Packmaster are great at overunning opponents, having a ginormous ass, and creating defenses. Also the only drawback actually assists the deck in bouncing back after removal (especially good to hide messenger). Use thorn and wasteland to slow the opponent down while you build and then overun them. Also note thatmy sideboard is tailored to my metagame. Yours will not look like mine if you play somewhere else.

Card Choices:

Sylvan Messenger: Self explanatory. Lots of elves plus messenger equals lots of elves in hand.

Priest of titania: Self explanatory.

Elvish Champion: Makes your other guys bigger and forestwalk. Forestwalk is actually the most benefitial of the two since everyone nowadays plays Tarmogoyf. Three mana to give your guys +1/+1 and unblockability against a large percent of the format seems pretty good.

Imperious Perfect: +1/+1 plus creature maker is good. The deck runs the full compliment of 8 lords for maximum synergy between all of your creatures. Since most of our guys are tiny these are needed to mach the opposing creatures.

7 Mana elves: I had orignally ran 6 but since you have to have a accelerant in the opening hand I bumped these up by 1.

ESG: Free mana to allow quicker plays. Also since it was errated to a Elf spirit its gives you the viable option of hardcasting it if the situation calls for.

Viridian Zealot: These were added to improve the decks matchup against non aggro decks. Good against Landstill, Dreadstill, prison, etc... and OK against combo.

Packmaster: Very good card. A 5/5 for 4 with its drawback is still decent, but added the wolf generating ability with no tap requirement makes it really, really strong. Makes a army of wolves with either priest or cradle out but even without them still makes a deathtouch wolf or two which makes it much harder to attack you. Its hideaway ability is very good as it allows you to recover from a sweeper so much faster (Messenger #1 target to hide with this ability). This guy is the biggest reason we have a decent aggro matchup.

Symbiote: Eladamri's replacement. While this guy doesnt protect your guys from removal as well, it has 2 distinct advantages that make it nearly as strong as Eladamri when it was good: Brings the cards back to your hand which helps against sweepers, Synergy with Messenger (should be self explanatory by now).

Thorn of Amethyst:: Since this a deck a Alarming majority of creatures, Thorn of Amethyst is always a one sided sphere effect. Thorn is especially useful in thresh, landstill, and combo matches.

Wasteland Additional mana denial alongside Thorn and is used for mana if needed.

MutavaultI did not run this in my build, but in a meta with a higher aggro percentage this is a perfectly viable substitution to wasteland.

Sideboard choices

Leyline of the void Something I posted in the burn thread but it applies perfectly here too:

Well, the way I see it is that Leyline is just as good of a topdeck in a deck that cant hardcast it compared to a deck that can hardcast it. The decks it gets sided in for (ichorid, aggro loam, GRAVEYARD etc..) really only care if its coming down on the first turn because A: Ichorid kills very early on and a turn 3-4 Leyline will have just as much effect on them as not playing it does B: you really only need to stall decks that use the graveyard for a few turns to allow you to win (aggro loam cant cast dreams against us in the first 3 turns without seriously harming themselves if they dont have loam). Yes I do think it is worth the dead topdeck because Leyline of the Void is extremely broken.

Relic This card is coming for Shards of Alara and I think I will be switchin to it and taking out my Leylines. The fact that it hates graves even without saccing itself is really stronger then most people realize and that if you need to, you still crack it to kill graves and draw a card.

Chalice of the void Since the combo matchup has always been a problem with the deck, 4 chalices along with the four thorns in the maindeck helps to give this deck a fair chance at beating combo.

Caller of the Claw Another thing this deck has problems with is the fact that mass removal is extremely effective against elves. If you have over committed the board against a deck with mass removal (which you should never do anyways) this is one of your only options to keep your self from losing.

Wren's Run Vanquisher This one is my personal choice as of late. Since eladamri has been neutered, this deck has been having problems with goblins and the other aggro matchups became worse. If you need something to give the aggro MU a little boost, then just side in the playset of these and it should help alot.

Root Maze One strength of this deck is that it can apply pressure on the opponents manabase at the same time as its putting pressure on the board. This card effectively does just this as our lands are less nessessary to cast our spells then for our opponents. This card is also effective against aggro loam and combo.

Krosan Grip Just a viable utility card. If artifacts or enchantments are giving you a hard time, this is the best way to get rid of them.

Choke This card is a bomb versus decks with blue obviously. If you really want this to stick then you bait there counterspells once with a 3-cast card then play choke.

Winter Orb Running this alongside thorn and root maze provides the deck with a great mana denial strategy. But I advise that you should really only use this if you are running root maze and thorn because otherwise your opponent will be able to play around orb.


Cards that didnt make the cut:

Fetchlands/duals: This deck truly wants to stay Mono colored because all the answers it needs for problem matchups are either convienently in green or are artifacts. Also replacing elves with splash color utility cards in the maindeck is a mistake as this deck is tight enough as is and their really arent any cards that we desperately need. Also I have seen decks runs fetches in monogreen for thinning alone which is a mistake (I dont remember where I read it, but in one of the threads here they did a calculation and it revealed that you really only get like a .6 percent better chance of not drawing that card) as its not worth the life and opening yourself up to stifle.

Eladamri The largest reason that Eladamri is no longer good is this: it is always going to be a loss of tempo. When Eladamri was errated it was good because it invalidated several card in their deck. If you cast Eladamri now, your opponents first priority is to kill it so if you spend a turn casting this you are losing a turns spell because as long as there deck has removal in it, it will almost always be killed the same turn or the next. This makes the fact that its a elf largely irrelevant.

Liege This card is strong but its 4 mana cast is very prohibitive and seeing as we already have 7 4 casts adding 2-3 more leaves you with cards you cant cast in hand often. Since your never going to run 4, its ability to boost copies by 2 is irrelevant and its discard ability will only matter if your opponents hits it with a hymn or hippie.

Jitte I like this card, but essentially there just wasnt enough room. The maindeck is filled to the brim with must run cards and the bonuses jitte provides are not as nessesary as other cards (are creatures already get big, -2/-2 doesnt kill as many things as it used to, and we dont normally need the life boost)

Staff of Domination Obviously this allows you to go infinite with priest but it is situational and makes your deck significantly more vunerable to hate. Without a priest this card does very little for you and even with priest you still need another 4 elves in play for the combo to go off. With all the counters, creature removal, and artifact hate in the format, the odds of you comboing off with staff are low enough that you just better off going the aggro control route.

Talara's Battalion Essentially the same reason that I dont run vanquishers maindeck, they dont help out other elves. Sure its bulky, but it doesnt do anything other then attacking which is very anti synergetic. Also its not a sure cast as it will occasionally be stuck in hand.


MU's:

Threshold I know that everyone nowadays is claiming too have a favorable MU against thresh, but this is no BS... our thresh MU is pretty good. This decks has a constant supply of must counter cards and if thresh lets them in then they are in trouble. Stalling their board is easy as their lack of trample allows us too put mana elves in front of geese/goyfs with no life penalty. Imperious perfect makes a constant supply of chump blockers which will stall thresh close to indefinately. Symbiote helps to dodge thier removal and the forestwalk given by champion is game ending. Packmaster makes a wall of deathtouch wolves, has a great body for combat, and hides a creature so that even if they manage to remove it they will have another threat to deal with. Elves casting curve dodges CB and lastly thorn + wasteland offers alarmingly efficient mana denial versus them. After the board you have several options on how to board. As long as in G2 and 3 you prepare for pyroclasm you should be set.

Goblins Goblins has many different advantages on us which makes this matchup less then favorable. Thats not to say you cant win, but their are a few things your going to want to look for in a opening hand to make sure you dont fall behind in tempo. First off your going to want atleast 2 pieces of acceleration, it doesnt matter which just as long as your doing something turn 1. Also your going to want 1 card that puts more creatures into play, whether its perfect, messenger, or packmaster is normally irrelevant... just as long as you have a constant supply of creatures to put on the board. Post board bring in Vanquishers in place of thorns and if you see fit callers to boost your creature count.

Landstill This matchup is less favorable then I would like it to be but still winnable. It usually depends on the type of landstill, but since the addition of zealots it has gotten easier as we have a out too deed, moat, etc... The hardest part about this matchup is predicting countermagic and making sure your applying the right amount of board pressure while not over commiting. As long as you save a few elves to help you bounce back from a wiper, have symbiote or packmaster championig something relevant then you should be able to push through with the win. Post board rootmazes (or winter orb/grip/choke if you run them) go in and they should rob your opponent of enough tempo that you should be able to set up before they can attain board control.

Survival This deck has a better time with aggro decks and this is one of them. Forestwalk from elvish champion is amazing here as it ends the game the turn it comes down or the turn after barring them having instant speed removal. Packmaster is great here because if you get one or two wolves out you have effectively stopped their attack. Zealot is good here as it kills their survival which will slow them down enough to almost always give you the win. Post-board you side out the thorns for vanquishers which will improve this even more.

Aggro Loam Another bad MU. Them resolving dreams against us is bad, so try to keep a land a creature in hand if possible to help you bounce back. You want to lay a symbiote down before anything else as it will save your ass if they are killing you with dreams. Packmaster is great here as it dodges dreams and it makes deathtouch wolves which answers their big creatures. Zealot helps to get rid of seismic assault if nessesary. Basically what you want to do is suprise them with a elvish champion when yo have a board to swing in for lethal. Thorn is also another great card to get out early as it will fuck up most of their gameplan and give you time to establish your board. Post board this becomes much more favorable as your siding in root maze and Leyline of the void. When you have leyline out they cant crack dreams and their creatures will never be able to match yours so just plow right through them. Root maze is the best stall piece as it ruins their manabase and loam engine. Basically in this matchup your trying to stall for time while building your side. If you can effectively do this then Aggro loam shouldnt be to much of a problem.

Dreadstill Dreadstill was slightly favorable before I ran maindeck artifact hate so as you can imagine it shouldnt be too hard to pull out the win. The reason being is the same one that gives us good game against thresh: we have too many must counter spells: messenger, zealot, thorn, packmaster, etc... Dreadstill cant attack us if we have creatures on the table because one dropped lord will normally end the game. You should always be able to control the dreadnought (or chump enough damage so that they cant kill us in time). Also, since goyf dreadstill is becoming increasingly popular among the dreadstill variants you gain forestwalk out of champion which is the biggest factor to us racing them. The big thing here is too not blindly run into countermagic and get as much damage in as fast as possible. Side in vanquishers post board for extra damage and because they are the perfect chump blocker for nought.

Ichorid Basically what your trying to do is play as many elves as fast as you can to delay the zombies. To best do this you want to try and get out packmaster as fast as possible so you can make a good supply of wolves to throw at the zombies. This whole matchup preboard is decided on what your attacking and blocking with so if you can them (albeit not that often). Postboard is where you will try to get most of your wins. Basically you have the same gameplan only this time you switch out thorns and zealots for leylines and vanquishers.

Storm Combo Thorn is you best friend here. You always want this in your opening hand so if you dont have it in your first seven, I would advise mullagining to 6 to help your chances. Wasteland also helps to slow their manabases down, which is really what your trying to do here. If you dont have thorn or waste, you reall dont have that great of a shot pre board unless your opponent fizzles. Post board you bring in Root mazes and chalices (also you can bring in leyline if you decide that it will effect them enough to warrant it). Root maze and chalice make it very difficult to combo off because it prevents their artifact mana (that can be reliably cast turn 1) which is very crucial to their gameplan. A combination of thorn/root maze/ and/or chalice normally buys you enough time to win or draw into more hate.

Painter You want to stall their combo as much as possible and to do that you play all the zealots, wastes and thorns you have. If you can keep them off the combo for a few turns then it gives you time to play your creatures and apply pressure on the opponent. I dont have very much painter in my meta which is why I omitted the grips but if their is a significant presence of painter then It wouldnt be a bad idea to throw in 3-4 as they are crucial for this MU.




Dearest Wizards,
I have been a very good boy this year. I spent more money on cards this year then I have since I started playing magic. When you made Eladamri, Lord of Leaves good, my life was complete. I spent enough money on the deck to let me play in tournaments and life was good. But then you killed it and made me very sad :cry:, and I was forced to go and buy a new deck. My birthday is coming up soon and if you could give me one of the following cards from Shards of Alara to work with in in my elf deck I would be ever so grateful


Elf with thorn of amethyst in his pocket 1GG (basically a elf glowrider... this is the one I want to see the most)
Non-creature spells cost 1 more to play
2/2


Elf that cut off Gelmpalm incinerators hands GG
GG, Discard Elf that cut off Gelmpalm incinerators hands: Deal 4 damage to target creature.
1/2


Eladamri's Baby Nephew GG
Legendary
Elves have shroud and forestwalk
1/2


Putting all my hopes and dreams in this letter,
TG5K

[Rush]

I'm glad you finally got this thread up. I've been itching to post. Here (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=18892) is a list that I rather like and have been working with. It's been working out rather well. I will say this, however, Chamelion Collosus has been working out great in other lists I've been trying. Additionally, the deck doesn't need the Mutavaults, or at least, not as many. I've had to mulligan many times because Mutavault isn't a Forest. Packmaster is an interesting choice, what do you prefer to Champion with it? Finally, in the list I gave a link to, I'm thinking of changing Ranger for Symbiot. Have you been able to pull of the Symbiot/Messenger engine?

[Skeggi]

You have explained why you think Leyline of the Void is just as good in a deck that can't hardcast it, as it is in a deck that can. You didn't explain why you prefer it so much over Tormod's Crypt, which doesn't generate dead topdecks because every deck can hardcast it (and when sideboarded, probably have use for it).

The rest of the deck looks pretty solid. For elves :tongue: Have you considered stuff like Hurricane?

About Eladamri and his errata, the only errata I see of him is his creature-type errata. Is that what you keep moaning about?

[MTG Guru]

Since your running Leyline, why not throw in Helm of Obedience in the SB as well? Helm of Obedience may even be good alone in the deck, since your elves can generate massive amounts of mana. Might be something to consider.

[Zinch]

You spend 4 SB slots to Wren's run Vanquisher (a MD card) against aggro decks... why not put jitte here??
Is 20 or more times better against aggro decks

[montanhas18]

Could you please take a quick look at the list that Top 8'd the Legacy Championship and comment on it? I'll go ahead and save you the trip. Here's the list:

7 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Imperious Perfect
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Skyshroud Elite
4 Sylvan Messenger
3 Wirewood Herald
4 Wolf-Skull Shaman
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
// Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Umezawa's Jitte

Wirewood Herald (and consequent maindeck silver bullets)? Nettle Sentinel? Wolf-Skull Shaman? Garruk? Heritage Druid? Quirion Ranger? They all look like options you should comment about.

I actually liked your fetch comment a lot. I've been fiddling with the deck for a while and I was quickly coming to the same conclusion. As for the Vanquishers... I can't really imagine them not being MD material. Can't say the same for the Packmasters...

Thank you.

[Belgareth]

I must admit the OP deck seems to have some glaring omissions.
What were your reasons for not even considering Heritage druid/nettle sentinel combo (it's not even in the cards that didn't make it list), or wirewood herald.
If it's the age old "this is an agro deck not combo, then I suggest you rethink it as heritage druid allows sick plays with sylvan messenger to have about 10 creatures in play on turn 3.
Not having caller of the claw in the sb is also worrying given how the deck scoops to mass destruction.
I have a long long history of playing elves, so these are not T2 suggestions, this is from someone who has never dismantled their 1st elves list and simply tuned it every set :)
The fetchlands are actually there to remove lands to make the sylvan messenger piles a lot better.

[mc9alucard]

what about replacing priest of titania with Heritage druid and putting in the nettle sentinel for Affinity like elves?

Heritage + 2 Nettles and a Sylvan Messenger will net you tons of elves.

[Illissius]

I am pretty sure Vanquishers should be maindeck. Thorn, ESG, and maybe Priest seem like cards you could cut for it.

What about Aether Vial and/or Wolf-Skull Shaman?

Also, I don't think the Heritage/Birchlore/Nettle engine belongs here -- this is a straight aggro deck, not combo.

[montanhas18]

Also, I don't think the Heritage/Birchlore/Nettle engine belongs here -- this is a straight aggro deck, not combo.

Erh... you guys totally lost me... how does THIS:

Nettle Sentinel - G
Creature - Elf Warrior (Common)
Nettle Sentinel doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.
Whenever you play a green spell, you may untap Nettle Sentinel.
2/2

Combo with this:

Heritage Druid
G
Creature - Elf Druid
1/1
Tap three untapped Elves you control: Add GGG to your mana pool.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

You tap three [or less] Nettle Sentinels to Heritage Druid for GGG. You then use that mana to play a green spell, untapping the Nettle Sentinels. If you have enough, you can keep playing spells off the three green mana per green spell you play.

[Belgareth]

It also allows you to accelerate into a very fast agro attack, yes it can be used to combo but it also works very well in agro.
Without it the deck is just a very inferior goblin deck.

[montanhas18]

You tap three [or less] Nettle Sentinels to Heritage Druid for GGG. You then use that mana to play a green spell, untapping the Nettle Sentinels. If you have enough, you can keep playing spells off the three green mana per green spell you play.

Thanks. I had totally missed that :frown:

[SuckerPunch]

I just feel like the thread is misnamed.

Elf Aggro implies that this is a very aggressive build of elves.

I think such a list should have more in common with this list...

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=112818

I can't help but feel that not running Vanquishers and Talara's Battalion is a mistake.

My current elf build feels much faster and more aggressive.

It runs cards like...

4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Wren Run's Vanquisher
4 Talara's Battalion
3 Wilt Leaf Liege
3 Concordant Crossroads to give all my guys haste and acclerate the win by two turns.


Wilt Leaf Liege is basically just like the elf lords at pumping your guys. But it's so much more aggressive, acting as a 4/4 beatstick itself. Yes it costs one more mana, which honestly isn't a big deal because I am running Quirion Ranger (which lets me double down on mana by untapping a Llanowar and returning a tapped land to replay it).

Crossroads is also awesome. Letting you tap Priests for Mana the turn you play them, or replay them after bouncing them with Wirewood Symbiote. Letting you beat with Lieges and others the turn that you cast them. It all speeds up the deck a great deal.

I'm glad you're running Wirewood Symbiote though. It's an automatic four of in every elf list imo and it's one that too many lists ignore.

I'm not saying going the pure aggro route (playing Talara's, Vanquishers, Elites, Lieges etc) is definately better. Actually, that's a lie. I think going that route is indeed better, it sure feels that way.

[Skeggi]

I've been looking at your list again, a bit closer. I must say it's the first Elf list I like. I totally agree with not putting Wren's Run Vanquisher mainboard, in spite of what general consensus seems to be.

In fact: I think it's misplaced in the sideboard too. I think the 4 slots are better spent with cards like Dense Foliage or City of Solitude, dare I say, Krosan Grip.

About Leyline of the Void: you do realise that decks that use their graveyard have ways to bounce stuff for instance. They know Leyline gets them down, so they have hate against the hate. In my experience, Crypt is better, especially when you can't cast a Leyline.

[Peter_Rotten]

I've tinkering a bit on MWS with both the deck list from the opening post and teh GenCon deck. Niether list is perfect IMO, but so far I like the GenCon list much better. It simply has more tricks.

The Nettle/Heritage interaction is strong.
Quiron Ranger is strong with many of the elves. Use it with Perfect to quickly assemble an army.
Priest may actually NOT needed!
DeathTouch is decent.
1 Chameleon Colossus is decent too


However, I'm not conviced about Garuk. He could be replaced maybe with 2 Elvish Champions. Or maybe 2 Viridian Zealots - I wouldn't mind seeing some main deck Enchant/Artifact hate.

[J.V.]

About Eladamri and his errata, the only errata I see of him is his creature-type errata. Is that what you keep moaning about?

When they first errated Eladamri all they did was make him an Elf. By this he made himself untargetable similar to Crystalline Sliver (Hence the Name Crystalline Elves) but the second errata changed his text to "Other elves" making your opponent able to target him.

Also from my Elf aggro days, [Pre Tarmogoyf in heavy thresh meta, I must agree with Technogeek, Elves definitely have a favorable thresh MU Forest walk is just so brutal] Wirewood Symbiote+Sylvan Messanger is the tits! Best Ringleader Ever.

Edit:
Here is the list I have been messing around with recently and having success with.
// Lands
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
9 [ST] Forest (3)
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle
3 [MOR] Mutavault
2 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
2 [LE] Caller of the Claw
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [VI] Quirion Ranger
4 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
3 [5E] Llanowar Elves
3 [IN] Elvish Champion
4 [US] Priest of Titania
4 [AP] Sylvan Messenger
3 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
3 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 [LRW] Imperious Perfect

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LE] Caller of the Claw
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 4 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst

[technogeek5000]

Lots of response so Ill try my best to answer everyones questions truthfully.


I'm glad you finally got this thread up. I've been itching to post. Here (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=18892) is a list that I rather like and have been working with. It's been working out rather well. I will say this, however, Chamelion Collosus has been working out great in other lists I've been trying. Additionally, the deck doesn't need the Mutavaults, or at least, not as many. I've had to mulligan many times because Mutavault isn't a Forest. Packmaster is an interesting choice, what do you prefer to Champion with it? Finally, in the list I gave a link to, I'm thinking of changing Ranger for Symbiot. Have you been able to pull of the Symbiot/Messenger engine?

First off Chameleon colossus fights with the 4cc slot which is why I dont run it. The list you posted has only 10 base green sources and is extremely vulnerbaly to wasteland which would be why your getting color screwed. I said that you should run mutavault OR wasteland... not both. Also I tend to get the interaction out 1 out of every 3-4 games.


You have explained why you think Leyline of the Void is just as good in a deck that can't hardcast it, as it is in a deck that can. You didn't explain why you prefer it so much over Tormod's Crypt, which doesn't generate dead topdecks because every deck can hardcast it (and when sideboarded, probably have use for it).

The rest of the deck looks pretty solid. For elves :tongue: Have you considered stuff like Hurricane?

About Eladamri and his errata, the only errata I see of him is his creature-type errata. Is that what you keep moaning about?

Leyline has the suprise factor on its side which is one of the biggest reasons I prefer it.

Hurricane affects your own guys which is probably not the best gameplan.

Eladamri used to give itself shroud which it no longer does. Thats why it was good.


You spend 4 SB slots to Wren's run Vanquisher (a MD card) against aggro decks... why not put jitte here??
Is 20 or more times better against aggro decks

Wren's run vanquisher increases your creature density to make sure you always have a steady supply of threats on the board. Plus our creatures get big enough already.


Could you please take a quick look at the list that Top 8'd the Legacy Championship and comment on it? I'll go ahead and save you the trip. Here's the list:

7 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Imperious Perfect
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Skyshroud Elite
4 Sylvan Messenger
3 Wirewood Herald
4 Wolf-Skull Shaman
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
// Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Umezawa's Jitte

Wirewood Herald (and consequent maindeck silver bullets)? Nettle Sentinel? Wolf-Skull Shaman? Garruk? Heritage Druid? Quirion Ranger? They all look like options you should comment about.

I actually liked your fetch comment a lot. I've been fiddling with the deck for a while and I was quickly coming to the same conclusion. As for the Vanquishers... I can't really imagine them not being MD material. Can't say the same for the Packmasters...

Thank you.

I dont like nettle sentinel plus heritage druid synergy because you need 2 copies of nettle sentinel too work (probably better off having 2 of what you took out for it) and you can only play a limited amount of spells. Wolf skull shaman is... ok. Remember your not always going to get the wolf every turn and without packmaster it just makes vanilla 2/2s.

Talara's battalion and vanquisher have no synergy with the rest of the deck. The straight aggro plan they provide is not what the deck needs. Packmaster is a excellent sink for priest, cradle mana and its only drawback is actually beneficial.


I must admit the OP deck seems to have some glaring omissions.
What were your reasons for not even considering Heritage druid/nettle sentinel combo (it's not even in the cards that didn't make it list), or wirewood herald.
If it's the age old "this is an agro deck not combo, then I suggest you rethink it as heritage druid allows sick plays with sylvan messenger to have about 10 creatures in play on turn 3.
Not having caller of the claw in the sb is also worrying given how the deck scoops to mass destruction.
I have a long long history of playing elves, so these are not T2 suggestions, this is from someone who has never dismantled their 1st elves list and simply tuned it every set :)
The fetchlands are actually there to remove lands to make the sylvan messenger piles a lot better.

The combo is just too hard to assemble as you need 2 copis of nettle sentinel, heritage druid, lands and messenger to get the situation you just describe. Its just inconsistent as when your getting only nettle sentinels or just druids your hands are going to be rather lackluster.

Like I said in the opening post, my sb is tailored to my metagame. There are less landstill and more Aggro loam so root maze serves me better then caller does. If you have a higher landstill density then by all means run caller.

Like I said it actually affects that so little that its not worht the one life and opening yourself up to stifle.


I just feel like the thread is misnamed.

Elf Aggro implies that this is a very aggressive build of elves.

I think such a list should have more in common with this list...

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=112818

I can't help but feel that not running Vanquishers and Talara's Battalion is a mistake.

My current elf build feels much faster and more aggressive.

It runs cards like...

4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Wren Run's Vanquisher
4 Talara's Battalion
3 Wilt Leaf Liege
3 Concordant Crossroads to give all my guys haste and acclerate the win by two turns.


Wilt Leaf Liege is basically just like the elf lords at pumping your guys. But it's so much more aggressive, acting as a 4/4 beatstick itself. Yes it costs one more mana, which honestly isn't a big deal because I am running Quirion Ranger (which lets me double down on mana by untapping a Llanowar and returning a tapped land to replay it).

Crossroads is also awesome. Letting you tap Priests for Mana the turn you play them, or replay them after bouncing them with Wirewood Symbiote. Letting you beat with Lieges and others the turn that you cast them. It all speeds up the deck a great deal.

I'm glad you're running Wirewood Symbiote though. It's an automatic four of in every elf list imo and it's one that too many lists ignore.

I'm not saying going the pure aggro route (playing Talara's, Vanquishers, Elites, Lieges etc) is definately better. Actually, that's a lie. I think going that route is indeed better, it sure feels that way.

Yah, your build is faster then mine, but you also punting the control and combo matchups. Thats why the aggro control strategy is, in my opinion stronger. Straight aggro strategies are almost unviable and even if they are, this deck will never be able to match the conistent speed of decks like Goyf sligh so were better off sacrificng the potnential turn to disrupt the opponent.


I've tinkering a bit on MWS with both the deck list from the opening post and teh GenCon deck. Niether list is perfect IMO, but so far I like the GenCon list much better. It simply has more tricks.

The Nettle/Heritage interaction is strong.
Quiron Ranger is strong with many of the elves. Use it with Perfect to quickly assemble an army.
Priest may actually NOT needed!
DeathTouch is decent.
1 Chameleon Colossus is decent too


However, I'm not conviced about Garuk. He could be replaced maybe with 2 Elvish Champions. Or maybe 2 Viridian Zealots - I wouldn't mind seeing some main deck Enchant/Artifact hate.

I didnt find the nettle interaction strong. The fact that you need 2 nettle sentinels for it to work means you would probably be better off having two copies and one copy of alternative cards (priest, zealot, vanquisher, whatever your taking out.

Quirion ranger has synergy with with perfect but symbiote synergy with messenger is better (atleast Im assuming thats the slot that ranger took... correct me if Im wrong).

I have never doubted priests power and have always realized the amount of elves I get out regularly will always be less if I didnt have priest. I certainly test it for some other beats or utility + a additional cradle but this is just my hypothesis.

Deathtouch is good, and my list has it in packmaster.

Chameleon colossus fights with messenger and packmaster and both are sinkls for your rediculous mana count. Chameleon will get chumped but the creatures packmaster makes wont. Also the 4cc slot are always cards that help you recover fro a sweeper. Again this is just my hypothesis. Im still gonna try it out.



If I missed anything that you think I should address then by all means say so.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I don't know whether you'd want this main or board, but one card I found to be phenomenal in Elves back in the day (and this was in an unpowered 1.5 meta, so take it with a grain of salt) was Ritual of Subdual. Elves have a relatively easy time paying the upkeep, and having thep ower to effectively lock the opponent out of playing spells can be very powerful. I would give it a spin, at least as a sideboard card against decks like LftL or Landstill.


Alternately, ZOMG FOOD CHAIN MOSH SIDEBOARD INTO COMBO PLAN!!!! You should try it.

+4 Food Chain
+3 Fierce Empath
+1 Sundering Titan
+1 Myojin of Night's Reach

[Nonex]

The list I run has a slightly different approach, it looks like a Stompy deck and I think it should be treated that way. This list gets some 6/6 creatures rather than a 30/X one:

9 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Gaea's Cradle

4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Boreal Druid
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Priest of Titania
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Gempalm Strider
4 Tribal Forcemage

3 Garruk Wildspeaker


The deck design here is simple since every nonland card in the deck must serve one of the following purposes: acceleration, global pumping, or protection.

- Acceleration: this means getting things faster than we should. Additional mana is the best way, but extra cards are also important, especially after massive removal. All mana-producing elves, Quirion Ranger, Wirewood Symbiote, Sylvan Messenger and Garruk are useful for this. Also Gaea's Cradle.

- Global pumping: in contrast to cards like Invigorate or Berserk, we need a way to get all our creatures big at once. We have Gempalm Strider, Tribal Forcemage, Imperious Perfect and Garruk for this.

- Protection: Wirewood Symbiote can also save creatures from removal. It's also useful to recur triggered abilities (Sylvan Messenger, Tribal Forcemage) or return a Gempalm Strider in play to cycle it. In strange situations where someone somehow is trying to destroy our basic Forests, Quirion Ranger has something to say as well.

These concepts explain why big elves like Wren's Run Vanquisher, Talara's Batallion, Nettle Sentinel or Skyshroud Elite are missing, since they don't serve any of these purposes. Wren's Run Packmaster is too expensive and slow even with the insane amount of mana we can get. Heritage Druid produces mana but not by itself, so its acceleration is unaffordable. Chameleon Colossus is a 4/4 elf with protection from black, which doesn't make the cut. Elvish Champion, however, can easily replace Imperious Perfect; it just depends on the metagame if forestwalk is better than elf tokens or not. IMHO a split is incorrect and we should run only one of them.

About the cards:

- Fyndhorn and Llanowar Elves: self-explanatory.

- Boreal Druid: clearly worse than the previous two, but 12 1cc elves that produce mana looks like the correct number. It's here just until another Llanowar Elves version is printed.

- Quirion Ranger: untaps mana-producing creatures and "produces" mana by itself if we have no 2nd turn land drops. Possibly the weakest creature in the deck and the first one to be sideboarded, but good nonetheless.

- Wirewood Symbiote: saves Priests of Titania or Imperious Perfects, recurs CIP effects and makes any nontoken elf an eternal chumpblocker. Being an Insect is its biggest handicap, but makes the cut anyway.

- Priest of Titania: possibly the main target of all spot removal, if it lives to lose summoning sickness we win 50% of the game.

- Imperious Perfect: it loses potential if no one play Engineered Plague, since we generally make tokens when we have nothing better to do. They win the game when the global pump takes place, though. Elvish Champion's forestwalk seems equally effective.

- Sylvan Messenger: card draw is always good. Not much else to say about it.

- Gempalm Strider: one of the global pumping components, and the only one without giving trample but with a true surprise factor. Not bad on the table if necessary.

- Tribal Forcemage: a morph creature in a monogreen deck is rare and few people could guess what it is. After that it's just a warning ("Do something or die next turn"), but pumps at instant speed like Gempalm. Overall very good and probably the second best component.

- Garruk: if this deck can win something in a tournament, it's thanks to this card. It can give tons of mana by untapping Gaea's Cradle while setting an Overrun for the next turn, and in extreme cases we can drop it turn 2. The number is 3 because of the legendary condition.

The sideboard is vast, so I just list the cards I'm using right now. I just give up against combo decks btw:

4 Viridian Zealot
3 Krosan Grip
4 Tsunami
4 Fecundity

- Viridian Zealot: self-explanatory.

- Krosan Grip: where Zealot fails (Humility, usually Engineered Plague, etc.).

- Tsunami: against blue-based control, like Landstill.

- Fecundity: against massive removal. It looks better than Wirewood Herald + Caller of the Claw IMHO.

[technogeek5000]

The list I run has a slightly different approach, it looks like a Stompy deck and I think it should be treated that way. This list gets some 6/6 creatures rather than a 30/X one:

9 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Gaea's Cradle

4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Boreal Druid
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Priest of Titania
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Gempalm Strider
4 Tribal Forcemage

3 Garruk Wildspeaker


The deck design here is simple since every nonland card in the deck must serve one of the following purposes: acceleration, global pumping, or protection.

- Acceleration: this means getting things faster than we should. Additional mana is the best way, but extra cards are also important, especially after massive removal. All mana-producing elves, Quirion Ranger, Wirewood Symbiote, Sylvan Messenger and Garruk are useful for this. Also Gaea's Cradle.

- Global pumping: in contrast to cards like Invigorate or Berserk, we need a way to get all our creatures big at once. We have Gempalm Strider, Tribal Forcemage, Imperious Perfect and Garruk for this.

- Protection: Wirewood Symbiote can also save creatures from removal. It's also useful to recur triggered abilities (Sylvan Messenger, Tribal Forcemage) or return a Gempalm Strider in play to cycle it. In strange situations where someone somehow is trying to destroy our basic Forests, Quirion Ranger has something to say as well.

These concepts explain why big elves like Wren's Run Vanquisher, Talara's Batallion, Nettle Sentinel or Skyshroud Elite are missing, since they don't serve any of these purposes. Wren's Run Packmaster is too expensive and slow even with the insane amount of mana we can get. Heritage Druid produces mana but not by itself, so its acceleration is unaffordable. Chameleon Colossus is a 4/4 elf with protection from black, which doesn't make the cut. Elvish Champion, however, can easily replace Imperious Perfect; it just depends on the metagame if forestwalk is better than elf tokens or not. IMHO a split is incorrect and we should run only one of them.

About the cards:

- Fyndhorn and Llanowar Elves: self-explanatory.

- Boreal Druid: clearly worse than the previous two, but 12 1cc elves that produce mana looks like the correct number. It's here just until another Llanowar Elves version is printed.

- Quirion Ranger: untaps mana-producing creatures and "produces" mana by itself if we have no 2nd turn land drops. Possibly the weakest creature in the deck and the first one to be sideboarded, but good nonetheless.

- Wirewood Symbiote: saves Priests of Titania or Imperious Perfects, recurs CIP effects and makes any nontoken elf an eternal chumpblocker. Being an Insect is its biggest handicap, but makes the cut anyway.

- Priest of Titania: possibly the main target of all spot removal, if it lives to lose summoning sickness we win 50% of the game.

- Imperious Perfect: it loses potential if no one play Engineered Plague, since we generally make tokens when we have nothing better to do. They win the game when the global pump takes place, though. Elvish Champion's forestwalk seems equally effective.

- Sylvan Messenger: card draw is always good. Not much else to say about it.

- Gempalm Strider: one of the global pumping components, and the only one without giving trample but with a true surprise factor. Not bad on the table if necessary.

- Tribal Forcemage: a morph creature in a monogreen deck is rare and few people could guess what it is. After that it's just a warning ("Do something or die next turn"), but pumps at instant speed like Gempalm. Overall very good and probably the second best component.

- Garruk: if this deck can win something in a tournament, it's thanks to this card. It can give tons of mana by untapping Gaea's Cradle while setting an Overrun for the next turn, and in extreme cases we can drop it turn 2. The number is 3 because of the legendary condition.

The sideboard is vast, so I just list the cards I'm using right now. I just give up against combo decks btw:

4 Viridian Zealot
3 Krosan Grip
4 Tsunami
4 Fecundity

- Viridian Zealot: self-explanatory.

- Krosan Grip: where Zealot fails (Humility, usually Engineered Plague, etc.).

- Tsunami: against blue-based control, like Landstill.

- Fecundity: against massive removal. It looks better than Wirewood Herald + Caller of the Claw IMHO.

I really like fecundity as a answer to mass removal. I really do. Im going to test it out and see just how good it is. My only problem with it is that it doesnt affect deed.

[Nonex]

I fear I'm not sure about what you mean. Fecundity triggers even if it's dying with your creatures, like Disciple of the Vault.

[Funlicker]

I've been playing a list very similar to Nonex's for quite some time now. I never have a chance to play competitively, so I have no idea if it can compete with the top decks or anything. For an elf deck though, it runs really well.

3 Gaea's Cradle
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
5 Forest

4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Priest of Titania

4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote

4 Bloodline Shaman
4 Sylvan Messenger

4 Gempalm Strider
4 Tribal Forcemage
2 Elvish Champion

4 Concordant Crossroads

Um.. ya same plan as Nonex. Pump out a few elves and give them +4/+4 or so. Just enough to swing for 20. If you go all balls to the walls (and your not disrupted) the deck can win turn 3 fairly often, but it's usually a turn 4 or 5 win. I play a few different cards than Nonex so I guess I'll go over those...

Elvish Spirit Guide- Why not? It's basically an elf land. You really want to reduce the amount of non elf cards in our deck as much as possible, so you can get the most benefit from messenger/shaman. You only need 1 or 2 lands anyway, and this guy helps accelerate you into to some crazy fast wins.

Bloodline Shaman- I dunno. I like her. She turns the game around all by herself when your crap gets blown up. She's like the dark confidant for elves, and with untapper elves she can go nuts.

Concordant Crossroads- Like a few people have said, this card speeds your clock up by a turn or so. Probably the only non-elf card I'd run in an elf deck with this approach. I really don't like garruk in here as he untaps lands not elves and can't be drawn by messenger and shaman.

Elvish Champion- I threw two in before tarmogoyf cause my friends started playing plagues, but now that everyone runs green I think the evasion she offers is more beneficial than imperious perfects ability.

Also drawing more than one cradle really bites especially if you don't have a forest to play a creature in the first place. I wouldn't run 4. I've also been considering taking out the fetches, because sylvan messenger puts non-elf cards on the bottom of your deck. So, if you fetch for a forest all the forests you revealed and put on the bottom with sylvan messenger are now shuffled throughout your deck. As for a sideboard, I don't play competitively so I'm not anal about it. I usually throw in stuff like Crypt/needle/zealot/krosan grip/wirewood herald+caller of the claw/ect.. the normal stuff.

[Shabbaman]

One card that deserves mention is Bramblewood paragon. It buffs a lot of the good elf creatures, as those are warriors as well.

[badjuju]

Anyone do anymore testing on this deck archetype? I'd like to see what has and hasn't been working for you guys.

I've seen several decently successful variants of elves within the past few months (including elf staff). At the moment I'm drifting towards elfstaff, but I'm always open to the aggro variant.

[Belgareth]

Quite a bit, but I disagree with the direction the OP took the deck so I left this thread for those that are testing that version.
Suffice to say the Nettle sentinal and heritage druid combo is very good in testing but without eladamri being the shroud monster he briefly was, elves is still lacking something to push it over the edge.

[badjuju]

Quite a bit, but I disagree with the direction the OP took the deck so I left this thread for those that are testing that version.
Suffice to say the Nettle sentinal and heritage druid combo is very good in testing but without eladamri being the shroud monster he briefly was, elves is still lacking something to push it over the edge.

Mind letting me know what thread you're in or what list you're going with? I'm highly interested to see your direction and what gauntlet you've been testing against.

[overseer1234]

Here's the list my girlfriend used to get to the top 8 in the Belgian national side event:

4x Boreal Druid
3x Elvish Champion
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Gempalm Strider
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Priest of Titania
4x Quirion Ranger
4x Sylvan Messenger
4x Tribal Forcemage
4x Wirewood Symbiote
4x Wren’s Run Vanquisher
10x Forest
3x Gaea’s Cradle
4x Wooded Foothills

Sideboard

4x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Winter Orb Artifact
4x Steely Resolve (against sligh, jitte,...)
4x Krosan Grip (jitte, plague,...)

Steely resolve and krosan grip can be easily swapped for needle's, fecundity or tormod's crypt, depending on the metagame. Cool thing is that the transformational sideboard with orb and thorn can sometimes completely surprise the opponent. Combo is pretty hard, but if you expect that, then maybe you can run chalice of something like that, since thorn usualy isn't enough.

[Funlicker]

What do you guys think of the Survival Elves list that placed 7th in a 49 person tournament? http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=19952

Here's the list.

3 Gaea's Cradle
4 Forest
3 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
2 Windswept Heath

4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Anger
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Wellwisher
1 Quirion Ranger

Sideboard:
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Ground Seal
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Pithing Needle
3 Krosan Grip
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon

I've always went the combo/aggro route with elves using a bunch of 1/1's, forcemage, and strider for the kill. The majority of you like to play with the 8 lords, vanquisher, and other fatter elves though. I never really considered it, but it does seem like it'd be more resilient. This deck runs the same way the others do with the 8 lords, vanquishers, priest, messenger, but it has a toolbox and one sided haste via anger. I don't think the kamahl is needed though.

[Illissius]

I always thought Survival was a much better Haste enabler to use than Crossroads or whatever. With a sufficient supply of Symbiotes and stuff it even lets you combo out more or less singlehandedly.

[ParkerLewis]

Sorry if the questions seem noobish, but i'm totally new with the... hum... "archetype".

-lots of lists here look more like "combo" than aggro to me, is it normal ? or is the title a bit misleading ?

-if it's supposed to be aggro, why not a singleton Coat of Arms (or even as a 2-of) ? As soon as you've got 4 elves out, it's basically a "i win now" card. I mean, having 4 elves on board should not be hard with the lists that are here.

-it seems to me that black has a lot to offer as a splash color, mainly maindeck Prowess of the Fair (look it up) and Eyeblight's Ending. Both elves cards thanks to Tribal technology, and both filling very gaping holes in the "elf deck" usual and apparent problems (resistance to wrath / clasm / multi critter destroy effects, ability to take care of opposing critters).

With those remarks, a list could be something along the lines of :


// Lands
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle
6 [MM] Forest (2)
1 [TSB] Pendelhaven
1 [US] Swamp (1)
4 [B] Bayou
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
4 [6E] Llanowar Elves
4 [US] Priest of Titania
2 [DS] Viridian Zealot
2 [LRW] Wren's Run Packmaster
3 [LRW] Immaculate Magistrate
2 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [AP] Sylvan Messenger
3 [EVE] Talara's Battalion
2 [MOR] Wolf-Skull Shaman
3 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher

// Spells
3 [8E] Coat of Arms
3 [LG] Concordant Crossroads
3 [LRW] Eyeblight's Ending
3 [LRW] Prowess of the Fair

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [LG] Concordant Crossroads
SB: 3 [US] Duress
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

When looking back at the list, I really like the "elf" slots (in particular, the 6 black ones definitely seem critical to me). Where there certainly is some work to be done are the non-elf slots, ie Coat and Crossroads. They're both here as 3-ofs but I'm not sure at all about them. Crossroads feels like this kind of build couldn't benefit from it enough. And Coat of Arms probably shouldn't be in more than 2 copies.

Elvish Harbringers might be a fine replacement for some of those slots, giving you the possibility to tutor according to your needs : mana (priest, llanowar), removal (viridian, eyeblight's), card advantage (messenger), or whatever. It's really too bad it isn't a "complete" Matron and doesn't put the card in your hand, ready to be played asap, but it might still be a good choice.

Quick note on wolf-skull : when two thirds of your deck is elvish, this little two drop is a wincon on its own.

Finally, the Fyndorn Elves might want to be replaced with Elves of the Deep Shadow for additional black sources.

On to the SB :

I didn't put Imperious Perfect in the MD because, well on game 1, their effect doesnt seem that great (i mean, spending 3 mana to turn my priests into 2/2s seems really meh). On the other hand, they will have to be put in game 2 and 3 against decks where you expect to encounter E. Plague as they nullify their effect (of course, you're also still supposed to add in the Grips).

Other cards are pretty self-explanatory, I guess (well it should probably be Thoughtseize instead of Duress), and you're probably wondering about the lone Crossroads in it. Well, so am I ;)

What do you guys think ?

[kidsmokin]

I've always went the combo/aggro route with elves using a bunch of 1/1's, forcemage, and strider for the kill. The majority of you like to play with the 8 lords, vanquisher, and other fatter elves though. I never really considered it, but it does seem like it'd be more resilient. This deck runs the same way the others do with the 8 lords, vanquishers, priest, messenger, but it has a toolbox and one sided haste via anger. I don't think the kamahl is needed though.

I like this version a lot better than the other lists, Anger is a big help, especially if you can set up it fast enough to get Anger in the yard and land a Lord on the table (~turn 3-4) and swing with all of them, it's pretty tasty. Kamahl should really be a Gempalm Strider, it looks like Kamahl is there for the Overrun but Gempalm fills that role almost as well (1 less pump and no trample, but cycles). I also want to fit in Caller of the Claw against EEs, Deeds and etc., but it might be a tight fit, though I think Wellwisher would be the first to go.

edit: My Elf Survival List is the same except -1 Fyndhorn Elves, -1 Kamahl for 2 Gempalm Strider. Strider breaks open games. That's really all there is to it.

[Mental]

This is the list I've been goldfishing...yeah. There isn't too much to say.

4 Heath
4 Foothills
9 Forest
4 Bayou

3 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Wirewood Herald
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
3 Wolf-Skull Shaman
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Ambush Commander

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Unearth
2 Eyeblight's Ending

This list is fast and modeled more after Standard elves than the lists I see around here...no crap like Immaculate Magistrate, who's slow and vulnerable. Herald is such a house in this deck, as is Unearth...since Lords are the main targets of removal.

Discuss, I guess.

[Funlicker]

So I really like the survival list. The haste from anger is crucial to searching up priests and tapping the same turn for lords. It re establishes your horde after it gets wiped out. But usually if your opponent can kill a few of your mana elves and keep survival offline you seem to fizzle like most other elf builds. With a low land count you just don't have enough mana to go crazy with lords and ringleader if your llanowar and priest get axed. Although survival solves some problems, it doesn't solve as many as I'd like. I had a hard time resolving priests or keeping mana elves alive long enough to get survival going. So I've opted fool around with a B/G build I put together that closely resembles some old crystalline elf lists. Although not as explosive as the survival build it's definitely more resilient. I agree with Parker in that there's some gaps to be filled in elves, but I went around it in a different way.

6 Forest
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Bayou

4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Llanowar Elves (or fyndhorn)
4 Elvish Visionary (new cantrip elf)
4 Wirewood Herald
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Champion
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Caller of the Claw

4 Aether Vial
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Smother
1 Eye's Blight Ending

So the deck features a few things that fill some holes, aether vial, therapy, smother, eye's blight ending, and wirewood toolbox via caller and zealot.
Therapy's really good at getting rid of those cards you're just not prepared for and works really well with your worthless 1/1 elves especially wirewood herald.
Smother is obvious. Handles resolved threats when your in your premature stages. I don't use this as often as I would have thought though. Vialing in vanquishers or chumping with tokens/herald usually works. Better yet vialing, blocking, and bouncing vanquishers and visionaries works really well too. When your lordless and your horde is puny it seems to help.
Aether vial is huge. I mostly abuse it for combat tricks via symbiote, herald, vanquisher, and lords.
Eye's blight ending is just tutorable removal via herald.
Zealot and caller are just some extra tools aswell.

I've been playing this list quite a bit online and it's been doing really well against threshold, goblins, stax varients. A lot better than it was previously in it's mono green stages. It still doesn't do very well vs. aggro loam though. A typical game starts with a t1 vial, t2 visionary draw eot vial in symbiote. Then you can chump bounce, smother, vial in vanquisher, to destroy opposing forces. Eventually you stabalize with vial at 3 and crank out some lords and beat unblocked via forestwalk. So if you have any comments or additions to make to the deck I'd appreciate it. - note- Not being able to tutor up a basic swamp is one of the issues I've been having.

For reference I've been boarding:
4 Plague
3 Grip
3 Extirpate (not so great against loam with chalice at 1)
5 slots open

[Illissius]

I'm not sure which Elf thread to post this in, but I finally found a mono green, Survivalable infinite combo for Elves decks. It involves an Elf you can tap for 6 or more mana, two Wirewood Symbiotes, and a Changeling Titan. I hope you can figure it out. Obviously you wouldn't go directly for the combo after resolving Survival; you'd fetch Anger, and then dick around for a while with Messengers, Symbiotes, Priests, and Rangers until the preconditions are met. Maybe the combo isn't even necessary, but it's cool, and it exists. And it's only one card.

[georgjorge]

I don't know if it's better than Survival, but what about Natural Order ? Requires four mana, and I don't know how easy that is to get...? But you have an abundance of creatures to sacrifice, and getting a Hellkite Overlord gives you something that is immune to all the stuff Elf decks usually worry about (Deed, Clasm, Explosives etc) save for Wrath effects, not to mention giving your opponent only one more turn to live (beating for the remaining four shouldn't really be a problem in this deck).

[Xenos]

Dearest Wizards,
I have been a very good boy this year. I spent more money on cards this year then I have since I started playing magic. When you made Eladamri, Lord of Leaves good, my life was complete. I spent enough money on the deck to let me play in tournaments and life was good. But then you killed it and made me very sad :cry:, and I was forced to go and buy a new deck. My birthday is coming up soon and if you could give me one of the following cards from Shards of Alara to work with in in my elf deck I would be ever so grateful


Elf with thorn of amethyst in his pocket 1GG (basically a elf glowrider... this is the one I want to see the most)
Non-creature spells cost 1 more to play
2/2




I've been wishing for an Elf Glowrider since Timespiral and still wishing ever since. And I thought I was the only one...

(another Elf Fanatic right here)

in my testing Elves do very poor against goblins or any decks packing red in general...

I run Savannahs in my build just to sideboard 4x Absolute Law and a few Swords to Plowshares in the main deck.

[jakolhops]

Elf Aggro (Pure Agro Version)

4 Llanawar Elf
4 Fydhorn Elf
4 Priest of Titania
4 Viridian Zealot
2 Elfish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Sylvian Messenger

4 Rancor
4 Tangle Wire
2 Overrun

4 Esg

5 Fetchlands (for Forest!!)
3 Gaes Cradle
8 Forest

SideBoard-
2 Elfish Lyrist(CBTOPFUCK)
4 Krosan Grip(CBTOPAFFANITYWTF)
4 3sphere (DIE STORM)
2 overrun(GET TEHRE)
3 choke(THRESH)

This is my friends version he wants to test at a local tourny.
At gen con elves dominated and didnt seem all that powerfull of a build as it seemed to lack things that i seemed important.

I normally dont just post a nakid decklist, but really everything has been discussed earlyer.
This version plays mana accell elves along with elves that pump all ur other elves. (like elf decks do normally)
It includes Rancor for a solid beater on any elf in case ur elves are falling and ovverrun isnt effective.
Tangle Wire- just a nice drop at any point with this deck. Early to slow down opponenets, or late game to allow your elves to break the barrier!:tongue:

[ParkerLewis]

This topic is a bit weird since it looks like everyone's just posting without answering to other's posts, so i'll continue to do the same ;)

I've been toying with the following list, and am pretty happy with the result so far, as it's consistent, resilient, while also actually being able to quickly put pressure on the opponent.


// Lands
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle
7 [MM] Forest (2)
4 [B] Bayou
1 [US] Swamp (1)
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
2 [6E] Llanowar Elves
4 [US] Priest of Titania
2 [DS] Viridian Zealot
2 [LRW] Wren's Run Packmaster
3 [LRW] Immaculate Magistrate
1 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [AP] Sylvan Messenger
3 [RAV] Elves of Deep Shadow
3 [MOR] Wolf-Skull Shaman
3 [EVE] Talara's Battalion
3 [LRW] Elvish Harbinger
3 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher

// Spells
2 [8E] Coat of Arms
3 [LRW] Eyeblight's Ending
3 [LRW] Prowess of the Fair

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize

Comments :

-it seems to me that black has a lot to offer as a splash color, mainly maindeck Prowess of the Fair (look it up) and Eyeblight's Ending. Both elves cards thanks to Tribal technology, and both filling very gaping holes in the "elf deck"'s usual and apparent problems : resistance to wrath / clasm / deed / board sweepers, ability to take care of opposing critters.

-Elvish Harbringers gives you the possibility to tutor according to your needs : mana (priest, llanowar), removal (viridian, eyeblight's), card advantage (messenger), or whatever. It's really too bad it isn't a "complete" Matron and doesn't put the card in your hand, ready to be played asap, but it might still be a good choice.

-Quick note on wolf-skull : when two thirds of your deck is elvish, this little two drop really is a wincon on its own.

-i've thought about vials and don't really know whether to put the card in the list or not. Since the deck already has lots of ways to generate mana, they would probably go in the Priests slots, but i'm not convinced it would be a better fit. It would surely completely annul the drawbacks on Battalion and Vanquisher, but they're rarely a problem. And Priests are still more versatile (you're not limited to creature spells), faster (only one turn to wait, while vial takes multiple turns to ramp up)... and are elves, of course (important for Sylvan Messenger and Wolf-Skull Shaman).

On to the SB :

I didn't put Imperious Perfect in the MD because, well on game 1, their effect doesnt seem that great (i mean, spending 3 mana to turn priests into 2/2s seems really meh). On the other hand, they're in the SB as an answer to E. Plague as they nullify their effect (of course, you're also still supposed to add in the Grips). They might be replaced with Elvish Champion, as the one mana difference can prove relevant, i guess. Or just scrapped entirely if a better idea comes.

I realize the deck simply dies against Tendrils. Hence the possibility to free the last 3 sb slots for combo hate (like trini or chalice).

[Waikiki]

Imo imperious perfect does alot in the MD. getting a 2/2 elf blocker each turn is very strong. You can hold of tarmogoyf the entire day.

I myself have been exploring a rather different approach as in Survival.

The list:

// Lands
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [A] Taiga
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [P3] Forest (2)
3 [A] Bayou

// Creatures
1 [JU] Anger
3 [VI] Quirion Ranger
2 [DK] Elves of Deep Shadow
3 [IN] Elvish Champion
4 [10E] Llanowar Elves
4 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
4 [US] Priest of Titania
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 [AP] Sylvan Messenger
1 [DS] Viridian Zealot
1 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
4 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher

// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
SB: 1 [LE] Caller of the Claw
SB: 1 [JU] Genesis
SB: 1 [ON] Wellwisher
SB: 1 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst

I would really like to evolve this list even further. But the ability to cast hasty priests into alot of messengers is really broken together with the pump elves. I would also like to include wolf-skull shaman cause I believe he is indeed very strong and underrated. Yet I can't find a spot to put him in. The vanquishers have been awesome to me killing every big threat out there. Especially dreadnoughts.

[matamagos]

I think the correct number of cradles in this last deck is 2, since you are playing 6 fetchs and moreover you will think your deck with survival of the fittest.

I also have seen people playing 1 or 2 copies of hunting pack in the side. when does this card enter the maindeck? against storm combos? is it really usefull? someone has tried it?

[Waikiki]

3 cradles is absolutely a must because I want to see one quick. And before the survival if possible to gain alot of tempo! 2 is just too few and 4 too many because of legendaryness

[ParkerLewis]

I also have seen people playing 1 or 2 copies of hunting pack in the side. when does this card enter the maindeck? against storm combos? is it really usefull? someone has tried it?

There surely is something more to it, because

"Tendrils for 24"
"resp : I make 13 4/4 beast tokens"

doesn't seem that much of a winner.

[Elf_Ascetic]

I'm playing a disruptive build, with some artifacts and Garruks. Some discussionpoints:

Fetchland:
I play none. The chance of losing to that one or two lifepoints (=one stormcopy) are bigger than the chance of losing to drawing that forest when you need something else. Playing so much fetch in a monocolored deck isn't any good. I don't have the statistics here, but fetching for just filtering your deck is rubbish. Someone did the maths on it.

Something good vs mass removal:
I see a lot of 14 forest, 40 lists. Have those lists tested (seriously) versus decks like landstill? One sweeper is game. In comparison to my list: Garruk is very very good at creating 3/3 beasts, or in Waikiki's list: Survival just gets you a fatty.

So please, for the sake of this discussion: just post a thoroughly tested list.


3xGaea’s Cradle
11xForest
4xWirewood Symbiote
4xLlanowar Elves
4xFyndhorn Elves
4xQuirion Ranger
3xSkyshroud Elite
2xViridian Zealot
3xTalara’s Battalion
4xWren’s Run Vanquisher
4xImperious Perfect
4xElvish Champion
4xThorn of Amethyst
3xWinter Orb
3xGarruk Wildspeaker

[Waikiki]

Nice to see your list. I think it's really solid against a more varied meta. Since it doesn't auto scoop to control. Something I also really like about my list. I beaten ugwb landstill today when he simply couldn't handle the pressure survival gives you.

But I can see garruk and the non elf cards do that aswell. I do not have this possibility thnx to the plan of survival chaining into multiple messengers in a turn swinging ftw. More of a combo mode.

I do am interested in your sb.

The reasons I do play fetched are pretty obvious I think.

I need a taiga for anger and need bayou for the SB options. Altho I question if I should even try and fight combo. I would like to have some help at my sb.

[Elf_Ascetic]

Yes, in a multicoloredlist you obv. need the fetch. No doubt about it.

Garruk is a versitile card: he speeds you up (gives mana with cradle plus an overrun a turn later) or finishes the control game (making some beasts). He is never a bad topdeck, which cannot be said of Overrun, Tribal FM or Gempalm Strider.

I goldfishes some hands with your list, but I'm more attracted by the power. Drawing into Anger, Squee or Genesis without a Survival is horrible. Topdecking a Priest of Titania too. But when you get survival, things just get lovely.

The core of my sideboard are two cards:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip

the rest is pretty variable:
Pithing Needle
the fourth Winter Orb
maybe the fourth Krosan Grip
Wheel of Sun and Moon (in addition to grip)
Vexing Shusher
Choke or Tsunami

I'm still looking for something monogreen (or colorless) that can stop combo..

[Galroth]

I wanted to offer my congratulations to the first place finish of Surival Elves:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=20228

If elves is one step away from becoming a deck to beat, survival might be that innovation. Again, congrats.

[Media314r8]

There surely is something more to it, because

"Tendrils for 24"
"resp : I make 13 4/4 beast tokens"

doesn't seem that much of a winner.

That would be extremely cute if you had baloth in play at the time. (not that he is in any elf aggro list, or ANY list anymore)

[Waikiki]

Lol if you read a little up you see there are allready some ideas about survival in elves. It's cool the list got first But I still have some questions with that list. Especially the SB. It doesn't really seem to be improving the bad matchups.

I do think its really cool this deck got first. Do we have the deck creator on the source somewhere?

[Elf_Ascetic]

Mwa, just 21 participants, but a T8 full of Deeds/Dreams and Dredge. Nice one.

Anyway.. What is the opinion of a Sylvan Messenger is a deck like that one? It draws 33/60 cards when it hits, but you lose your Survivals. I hate the fact that Ringleaders like these sometimes hit nothing.

I really dislike the Elves of the Deep shadow. Taiga, EotDS, 5 other cards can be ruined by a single wasteland..

And I still dislike Priest, Anger and Squee without a Survival.

(btw, I corrected my list in post #44. I run 11 forests, and 3 Skyshroud Elites, forgot those in the list)

[Waikiki]

The fact is priest can be really sick with messenger. I mostly draw 2 cards from it but alot of times have drawn 3 or 4. The wasteland's aren't really an issue cause if they spend time wasting your lands you spend time creating an army with the mana elves. Taiga's are only fetched when you got a survival into play. It's not needed to resolve a survival to win the game.

[Barook]

I wonder why nobody mentioned Crop Rotation so far? Is it really that bad against counters that isn't even considered? :confused:

It acts as additional Cradles and/or Mutavaults, accels the deck and it somewhat counters Wasteland.

Oh, and Garruk is definitely a beast.

[Waikiki]

Crop rotation is not an elf. Also It doesn't get broken that hard as in Eternal Garden.

[Barook]

Crop rotation is not an elf.

Something that is hardly relevant in a list like mine. Plus, it can fetch elves (Mutavaults).

My current list:

Lands
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle
13 [RAV] Forest (1)
1 [TSB] Pendelhaven
4 [MOR] Mutavault

// Creatures
4 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [10E] Llanowar Elves
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
3 [EVE] Talara's Battalion
4 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 [10E] Elvish Champion
3 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker

// Spells
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [UL] Crop Rotation

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher

Especially the sideboard needs more testing, but so far, I'm quite satisfied, although I'm not so sure about the Sideboard.

I'm just loving it how much rape Forestwalk in the current Metagofy is.

[Waikiki]

I still think that slot could be better used for some card that handles are hard matchup. Just to get a mutavault or something doesn't seem that impressive to me.

[Elf_Ascetic]

Mutavault is not a good card for this deck. A hand with 6 elves and 1 mutavault is bad². You don't need any more critters.

[strom]

Mutavault is not a good card for this deck. A hand with 6 elves and 1 mutavault is bad². You don't need any more critters.

The same is true for Cradle. I really dont get, why everyone plays it in multiples.

[Elf_Ascetic]

You only play 3 "bad starter" lands. You can always overcome that. But with 7 lands you don't want to find without a forest in your first seven, it's too much.

[raharu]

SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher

How about Gaea's Herald?

[KillemallCFH]

How about Gaea's Herald?Gaea's Herald itself can be countered, unlike Shusher, which is a huge point in Shusher's favor. Also Shusher lets you push noncreatures through and the fact that it costs mana to make stuff uncounterable isn't a big deal in a deck capable of making so much mana.

[technogeek5000]

You dont play mutavault because Wasteland is better. Mutavault is cute for combat tricks, but When you already got 4-6 big creatures on the board, having the option to disrupt your opponent makes the deck better in all matchups... not just aggro.

[Mental]

I want to attempt to create a 'standard' elf list. I know that at this point that is impossible, BUT I do feel there's a framework a few necessary cards that should be laid out, and then their are options from there.
In my understanding, this is the basis of a successful Elf deck:

4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Champion

These 8 cards are the engine of the deck, it cannot be viable without them. They're your 8 Goblin Warchiefs. Elvish Champion is probably the better of the 2 in this Tarmogoyf metagame, but Perfect is also incredibly versatile, able to neutralize any threat with a stream of 2/2 blockers.

4 Sylvan Messanger

These are your 4 Goblin Ringleaders. To be viable, they need 28ish elves alongside them, so let's make sure the numbers add up.

After that, things get more hazy. Here's a few other common card choices.

4 Wren's Run Vanquisher

Wren's Run Vanquisher is incredibly strong against Threshold and against Goblins. It doesn't shine so much against control, but it's still a decent threat that is more than worth the cost.

4 Wolf-Skull Shaman

WSS keeps a constant stream of threats going (approx 1 Wolf every 2 turns, if you play 28 elves). So that's again very useful in creature wars, but not so good against control.

4 Wirewood Herald
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Eyeblight's Ending

This 'package' is a favorite of mine. All the cards in it are strong on their own, but Wirewood Herald makes them so strong against Thresh and it's also your best weapon against control. Generally you beat Wrath of God and Pernicious Deed by, aside from Sylvan Messanger, Herald --> Caller --> Tons of bears.

X Mana Elves (Llanowar/Fyndhorn)

These speed you up and are decent 1 drops to counter Lackey and the like. However, in most elf decks the curve is highest at 2, not 3, making these slightly less than viable.

4 Priest of Titania
4 Wirewood Symbiote

This package is, in my opinion, overkill. It's just too much...but I like Symbiote on its own, as it's both protection and a way to recycle threats (Caller of the Claw & Sylvan Messanger).

I feel like other elves are subpar, but you could prove me wrong.

Non Elf Cards:

4 Aether Vial

I like Vial more than mana elves because it goes with your curve much better, allowing you to drop a Lord and a 2 drop on turn 3, and a Messenger and a lord on turn 4. And it's great against Thresh.

4 Thorn of Amethyst
(4 Wasteland?)

Good against combo and threshold, but I don't like it because
a) you're not going to beat combo anyways
b) we have enough against Thresh.
Coupled with Wastelands, however, it might be strong.

X Winter Orb
I haven't tested Winter Orb, so I have no idea. Control seems like an ugly MU, so this may have a place in the SB.

Lands:

3-4 Gaea's Cradle

I don't like Cradle as it just feels unnecessary. However, in some super aggro build it could be strong. I haven't really bothered to test it, it just feels weak and win more.

X Wastelands/Ports

The Goblin's strategy is Ok here, as you have some ways to cheat mana if you play vial, but I don't think it's necessary.

A note about the manabase: Elves can generally play less lands than Goblins, as your curve maxes out at 4 and is highest at 2.

And finally, a sample list that looks strong to me:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
10 Forest

1 Caller of the Claw
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Wirewood Herald
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Wolf-Skull Shaman
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
1 Viridian Zealot

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Aether Vial

Discuss.

[Waikiki]

IMO the mana elves are so needed in the deck. They accelerate you and act as beatsticks in the lategame. Where vial is actually too slow.

I do like the idea behind wolf skull shaman. I agree he seems like a very strong 2drop. Yet I haven't found myself to make room for it. (I run the survival build)
But I will start testing him soon.

[snare]

here's the deck i am playing. It's as much for fun as it is to win, my main question is around what are the optimal "silver bullets" in the toolbox.

lords
4 elvish champion
4 imperious perfect
4 Wilt-leaf Liege

mana
4 fyndhorn elf
4 llanowar elf
4 priest of titania
4 elvish spirit guide

draw engine
4 sylvan messenger
4 wirewood symbiote

toolbox
1 Eladamari, lord of leaves (against burn)
1 viridian zealot (self explanatory)
1 Caller of the claw (mass removal)
1 wren's run packmaster (imprint a messenger, or caller to help against mass removal, also acts a place to dump all the excess available mana from priests and cradles)

Land
2 Gaea's Cradle
14 Forest

Other possible toolbox options
- eye blights ending
- jagged scar archers
- Gaea's herald
- more zealots
- viridian shaman
- tribal forcemage
- other???

Again, i am not wanting this to be the best possible deck, its clearly built for fun... but i would still like to have a fighting chance for when i get stuck playing agaisnt Tier 1 decks

[montanhas18]

Honestly, I think you might have too many Forests. I'm also not a big fan of the Lieges. You already have 8 lords, you can cut the Lieges, imho.

How about Wirewood Heralds?

[Elf_Ascetic]

With cards like Wolf Skull Shaman, you're pushing elves too far. This is Legacy, not Extended. Creaturebattles? Only in one single matchup of the whole format: Goblins. Elves tend to win "creaturebattles" on their own. To sometimes make a 2/2 Wolf (it isn't even forestwalking..) is very, very bad in a deck that tends to win on turn 4 till 6. We don't run Cylian Elves, why should we run this?

I swear by a disruptive build, designed to offer some resistance in the Landstill, Loam and Combomatchups. Otherwise, you're gonna lose 4 out of 6 rounds to Deed, Dreams or Tendrills. 7-8 Champions, 8 Llanowars and 4-7 3+/3 Elves do the rest just fine.

[Mental]

With cards like Wolf Skull Shaman, you're pushing elves too far. This is Legacy, not Extended. Creaturebattles? Only in one single matchup of the whole format: Goblins. Elves tend to win "creaturebattles" on their own. To sometimes make a 2/2 Wolf (it isn't even forestwalking..) is very, very bad in a deck that tends to win on turn 4 till 6. We don't run Cylian Elves, why should we run this?

I swear by a disruptive build, designed to offer some resistance in the Landstill, Loam and Combomatchups. Otherwise, you're gonna lose 4 out of 6 rounds to Deed, Dreams or Tendrills. 7-8 Champions, 8 Llanowars and 4-7 3+/3 Elves do the rest just fine.

I see your point, but I would argue that with this deck the thresh MU, which is the format's premiere deck, also becomes a creature war which can best be won by overwhelming thresh with massive force.

As you said, Elves tends to win on turns 4-6, my build killing consistently on turn 5. Because of this, I don't think that combo is racable, but the forms of disruption available to elves either weaken other MUs too much to be worth playing, and I also believe that in this new Ad Nauseum era they are simply not an adequate defense anyways.

I agree that control is going to be Elves hardest of the winnable MUs, and maybe I should be focusing more on it. Currently, I think that between Cabal Therapy, Wirewood Herald, Aether Vial, Wirewood Symbiote and Sylvan Messenger, this MU is winnable. I do see your logic behind lowering the Shaman count, however, but I'd like to keep the Elf count high for Messenger, and I honestly feel like the control MU is better than you think. Remember, you can recover from Deed very quickly with Messenger, or you can Herald --> Messenger/Caller of the Claw, you can use Symbiote to bounce your Lords or Messneger in response to removal, so I honestly think this MU is ok.

On aggro loam: I think the main plan is to race them, but this is a tough MU. Forestwalk is very nice here, as is deathtouch. I would call this MU a creature war, when it gets down to it.

[Wobbles The Goose]

In interest of not derailing this thread, I thought I would just point to the more combo oriented build under discussion in the Development forum:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11264

After the success of elves in extended, a legacy port seems obvious and powerful. Nettle Sentinel/ Heritage Druid was discussed and dismissed in this thread before, but has important implications for the format (like a turn 2 kill). I don't think there really need to be a discussion of which build is better, as they are very different decks.

Also, more geared toward the midrange aggro player, it might be worth your time reading this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/14196.html

Elves are a more diverse tribe than Goblins.

[technogeek5000]

If you want to play combo, play Tendrils/ichorid. Thats the way I see it. The druid combo is narrow and requires 3 nettle sentinels. I figure that I would rather have either other consistent acceleration or more threats/disrption. This deck is really good at disrupting the opponent at the same time as laying down threats. It has a very strong aggro plan and taking out cards like symbiote, zealot, and thorn of amethyst for combo enablers is rather weak.

[Clark Kant]

So technogeek, any hint as to what your most current list looks like?

I'm actually interested to hear from anyone who still plays the deck.

Here's what I recently put together...

4 Skyshroud Elite/Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Priest of Titania

4 Talara's Battalion/Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
2 Tribal Forcemage/Gempalm Strider

4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Thorn of Amethyst

16 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle

[technogeek5000]

I was actually considering putting down aggro loam for a bit and playing elves. Here is what I have in paper at the moment. No really major changes.

4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious perfect
4 ESG
4 Priest of Titania
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Thorn of amethyst
3 Wren's Run Packmaster
3 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
3 Viridian Zealot
14 forest
3 Wasteland
3 Gaea's Cradle

4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Chalice of the void
3 Root Maze

The only 2 changes I have made are taking out leyline for relic and taking out one Llanowar for a Gaea's cradle.

[1maarten1]

noone tried this yet with progenitus/NO?? If yes, plz post ur list :laugh:

~Maarten

[Esper3k]

It seems like this thread probably hasn't been getting much love because of the Elf Survival list, 1maarten1.

You can check that one out here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12227).

There's a lot of versions of that one playing NO/Progenitus right now.

[1maarten1]

It seems like this thread probably hasn't been getting much love because of the Elf Survival list, 1maarten1.

You can check that one out here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12227).

There's a lot of versions of that one playing NO/Progenitus right now.

Yea i know, but im not looking for a survival list :tongue:

I made this list myself, its going pretty good :smile:
4#Elvish Spirit Guide
4#Wirewood Symbiote
4#Fyndhorn Elves
4#Imperious Perfect
4#Llanowar Elves
4#Priest of Titania
4#Sylvan Messenger
4#Wren’s Run Vanquisher
1#Progenitus
15#Forest
3#Natural Order
3#Wasteland
4#Elvish Champion
2#Gaea’s Cradle
// sideboard
4#Krosan Grip
4#Relic of Progenitus
3#Thorn of Amethyst
4#Pithing Needle

Any thoughts? Btw, i could post in the elf survival post but it doesnt run survival so it doesnt belong there :wink:

~Maarten

[evilfred]

Here's how I would build Elf Aggro.

1 x Dryad Arbor
6 x Forest
1 x Gaea's Cradle
1 x Pendelhaven
4 x Wasteland
4 x Windswept Heath
3 x Wooded Foothills

1 x Progenitus
4 x Natural Order

4 x Chrome Mox
4 x Elvish Spirit Guide
4 x Llanowar Elves

1 x Caller of the Claw
1 x Viridian Zealot
2 x Garruk Wildspeaker
3 x Elvish Champion
4 x Imperious Perfect
4 x Sylvan Messenger
4 x Wirewood Herald
4 x Wren's Run Vanquisher

Sideboard
2 x Pithing Needle
4 x Thorn of Amethyst
2 x Tormod's Crypt
1 x Empyrial Archangel
3 x Krosan Grip
3 x Choke

Fetches and Dryad Arbor for Natural Order + ProGen.

Chrome Mox and ESG for speed in the NO combo. And BTW Wirewood Herald got great synergy with Natural Order.

[enemyofarsenic]

Anybody using Living Wish here?

[Darkenslight]

Has anybody considered using Elvish Archdruid in the Champion slot? Mana accel + Elfboost is some good, apparently. How relevant is the Forestwalk fro Champion?

[Nessaja]

Anybody using Living Wish here?
I am but my build is so significantly different that it doesn't really fit in this topic. I got 5th at a 41 man tournament yesterday with that build.

[herbig]

How relevant is the Forestwalk fro Champion?

http://findmagiccards.com/GF/USC/MTGC/A/TROLAND1.jpeg

[TheBirdMan]

http://findmagiccards.com/GF/USC/MTGC/A/TROLAND1.jpeg

Haha, Tarmagoyf = most of the format

[(nameless one)]

would yall count X-land Elvish Stompy here?

check this out: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14401

[HPB_Eggo]

Just a random thought, but has anyone thought of splashing red using 4 Taiga and using Birchlore Rangers so you can put Bloodbraid Elf in the main? I've always found it useful, since you can bounce it with Wirewood Symbiote and replay it every turn. Also, it has haste, so it can swing even after being replayed every turn, unlike Sylvan Messenger.

Also, I really think running 12 Lords in the main is a necessity, especially now with so many fish builds doing the same thing. I'm fairly sure Wilt-Leaf Liege is probably better than Archdruid for the spot, as it's a 4/4 that can come into play for free, and because the deck doesn't need 8 copies of Priest of Titania. The only real consideration is when you run Bloodbraid Elf and you can't cascade into the Liege.

[technogeek5000]

so ive officially picked up this deck again, and jesus am I happy with my build right now. Heres what I have so far

4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious perfect
4 ESG
4 Priest of Titania
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Root Maze
4 Thorn of amethyst
2 Wren's Run Packmaster
3 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
3 Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 Elvish Archdruid
14 forest
2 Wasteland
3 Gaea's Cradle

So I tossed the symbiotes for root mazes, added 2 archdruids, and replaced viridian zealots for vanquishers for some more muscle.

[Clark Kant]

Why only 2 Elvish Archdruid? They seem awesome.

What are your thoughts on X land stompy? Seems like I always get mana flooded with this deck so the idea of cutting lands for more threats seems solid.

[(nameless one)]

X-land stompy is good if your meta doesnt have combo decks.

It runs no disruption at all. but other than that, it is pretty fast.


I would actually sideboard 3-4 Forests for my X-land stompy build because that random Sinkhole or Smallpox can be annoying sometimes.

Also, Elvish Archdruid is an auto 4-of. a Priest of Titania with a Lord ability is always good in this deck.

Sometimes, overkill with this deck is good because you want to beat down your opponent as soon as possible...

[Al-ucard]

Last friday i tested this deck and I'm so happy with the results for now:

20 Lands
9 Forest
4 Horizon canopy
4 Wasteland
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Pendelhaven

40 Creatures
4 Llanowar elves
3 Heritage druid
2 Fyndhorn elves
4 Wirewood symbiote
2 Talara's Battalion
3 Elvish visionary
2 Viridian Zealot
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish champion
4 Imperious perfect
4 Sylvan messenger
4 Wren's run vanquisher

15 Sideboard
3 Relic of progenitus
3 Dense Foliage
2 Krosan grip
3 Choke
4 Thorn of amethyst

Heritage druid is amazing, you have to test him. Play him when you have in play some visionary or messenger that don't do anything and tap them to play more guys is great.

Thoughts?

[(nameless one)]

how is Wasteland treating you?

also, no Nettle Sentinels with Heritage Druid?

[Al-ucard]

Wasteland is fine for now I'm not having problems with GG, and yes, seems obvious put nettle sentinel with heritage druid, but what to quit? Almost any other elf in the deck is better than sentinel...

[(nameless one)]

on your build, i would get rid of Talara's Battalion since she is a terrible topdeck.

Either that or run Land Grant over some of your Forests.


Im going to a tourney sometime this month and im planning to pilot this list:

8 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Talara's Battalion
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messanger
2 Elvish Champion
2 Tribal Forcemage

The last time I piloted this deck was before M10 (I had Elvish Visionary on Elvish Archdruid's spot). I came top4 (1st overall by ranking) on a 28 man tourney.

I want to pilot this deck again to an upcoming tournament. I have been having this arguement on whether I should run Talara's Battalion or Elvish Visionary (tempo vs. card advantage).

Since I have 10 lords and Tribal Forcemages, I am thinking of switching Talara's Battalion with Elvish Visionary although Talara's Battalion has been great (and shes a great bait for spot removal)

Also, I would also like to add Winter Orb for late game disruption but I havent really tested it. Has anyone tried Winter Orb?

[Al-ucard]

Have you tested Wirewood symbiote? Its nuts, with him you can replay messengers all the time, give it a try

[(nameless one)]

I did but Im running the X-land stompy version (hence, Im running Quirion Ranger)

I just dont know what to remove to accomodate Symbiotes. I might run it as a 2 of or 3/3 split with Ranger (which means I'm going to up my land count)

[(nameless one)]

Alright,

I've change my list lately to this:



7 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant

4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Priest of Titania
4 Talara's Battalion
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Sylvan Messanger
2 Elvish Champion
2 Tribal Forcemage

SB:
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
3 Krosan Grip
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Imperious Perfect
2 Thornweald Archer




Before that list, I had 4 Imperious Perfect on Main over Elvish Visionary. Although the deck provides lots of mana acceleration, I still think the previous list is 2 turns slower than the above list. I removed Imperious Perfect to support Elvish Visionary because it provides cantrip, as well as its easier to dump my whole hand by turn 2 with that mana curve.

I did not remove Talara's Battalion because its a quick clock, at the same time a removal bait. The deck is pretty explosive, I just have to figure out the right SB. Theres not much combo in my meta (and I hope it stays like that)

I also wanted to put the following on my main, just dont know what to remove from my list:

1-2 Wren's Run Packmaster (with lots of mana acceleration, why not?)
4 Thornweald Archer (attacking or defending with deathtouch is awesome)
NOgenitus combo (would it work?)

The deck follows the X-land stompy philosophy, so the redundancy of mana acceleration is my key to explosive starts and overwhelming attacks by turns 3-4.

The last time I've used this deck, I actually came top4 (6-0, 12-2). That list almost looked exactly like the list above, the only difference is that I had Imperious Perfect over Elvish Archdruid (which I didnt have any at that time).

It trampled Goblins, Deadguy Ale, Mono-U control and Merfolk. The two matches that I went 2-1 were Balanced Thresh (He countered most of my 1st turn spells) and some rogue Turbo-fogish deck that run 8posts (I got him to 1 then he Banefired me for 20 the following turn)

Can anyone help me playtest the list? (I cant really playtest where I am because I would be playtesting with the same people Im trying to beat. They also think that I've taken apart my elf deck... I wanna surprise them)

[Al-ucard]

First of all, Imperious perfect is THE lord, the fact that you could chump block tarmogoyf every turn or have board superiority is awesome, and having tribal forcemages much better.

Then Talara's battalion is a bad top deck as Quirion ranger, the first if you draw him at topdeck mode and the second if you draw more than one, having 2 of each is enough, this way you could add imperious perfect.

Another fact is that playing elves that do things at enter in play seems that the deck itself is saying "play 4 wirewood symbiote", replay messenger, visionary, forcemage and save your lords from swords to plowshares or bolts... Simply I can't conceive an elf deck without 4 of them.

Then you could quit nettle sentinel because without glimpse of nature you lose the combo with heritage druid and only becomes a 2/2 vigilance for G and the deck have access to better creatures than this.

SO:

-2 Quirion ranger
-2 Talara's battalion
-4 Nettle sentinel
+4 Imperious perfect
+4 Wirewood symbiote

Test it!!

PS: to playtest you could play with magic workstation

[(nameless one)]

I actually got rid of 4 Talara's Battalion in favour of 4 Imperious Perfects. Talara's Battalion is an awesome early turn elf but she does suck as a topdeck. Imperious Perfects can create late game card advantage (through tokens)

I want to do a 3/3/2 Quirion Ranger/Nettle Sentinel/Wirewood Symbiote

Nettle Sentinel is still a good early turn elf. I do like the idea of Wirewood Symbiote as a pseudo-shroud giver. I have to run at least 3 Quirion Ranger because she helps when I get mana screwed with no mana elves.

Like what I mentioned above, redundancy = consistency in this deck and i want to be beating my opponents on my 1st couple turns consistently.

[lorddotm]

If you're wanting Elf Aggro, why not port the Elf Combo decks of Extended, and use those. They give you a combo finish as well as about 20 Elves in one turn if that isn't possible.

Just some thought.

[paK0]

If you're wanting Elf Aggro, why not port the Elf Combo decks of Extended, and use those. They give you a combo finish as well as about 20 Elves in one turn if that isn't possible.

Just some thought.

Well, the problem is that without Glimpse this won't happen, and because of FoW Glimps doesn't happen =).

[(nameless one)]

Combo Elf relies on one thing: Glimpse of Nature

Elf Aggro can work without one of your elves because you can throw anything on your opponent's face. The beauty of Elf Aggro is that people will be overwhelmed with what to counter or what to remove because you will be throwing anything to their face.

[(nameless one)]

I have recently playtested Wirewood Symbiote and I have to say, its ability is good but I feel like the card is a win more card.

If youre in a position of replaying Sylvan Messanger or Elvish Visionary, you should already be winning.

I do like how Wirewood Symbiote helps the late game but really, elves are made to go on a beatdown on the 1st 4 turns...

If your not winning at that stage, you will not win at all.

[(nameless one)]

Alright, I just came from a 25-man tourney.

I played this deck:
8 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
3 Land Grant

4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Priest of Titania
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messanger
2 Elvish Champion
2 Tribal Forcemage Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Winter Orb

Match 1 - Kris with Goblins

Game 1: I did the usual elvish beatdown. He burned a couple of my guys with Gempalm Incinerator. I got him down to 2 with only Elvish Archruid as my lord when he Vialed in Goblin Sharpshooter with Goblin Warchief into play. Then he casted Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, copy Sharpshooter, ping everyone for 2, and only left with Wren's Run Vanquisher. Apparently you can do the following: ping the 3/3 with 2 Sharpshooter, then since one of them is a Kiki-Jiki copied token, it gets sacrificed at the beginning of end step, triggering Sharpshooter's untap, pinging my Vanquisher again for 1. I was left with no-one

Side In: 3x Pithing Needle, 2x Winter Orb
Side Out: 1x Quirion Ranger, 1x Nettle Sentinel, 1x Heritage Druid, 1x Elvish Visionary, 1x Priest of Titania

Game 2: He mulls to 5. By turn 5, he was at 0. Props to him though, he got me to 15 via Goblin Piledriver and Goblin Warchief (i think he misplayed because he just went with the attack, played a couple of lords the following turn and bashed him)

Game 3: This was a close game. A lot of exchanges. Winter Orb won me the game

1-0 (2-1)

Match 2: Mark with Goblins

Game 1: I just outraced him. By turn 4 or 5, I did the Tribal Forcemage thing for the win

Side: almost the same as above

Game 2: It was like game 3 of match 1 but he got the upper hand

Game 3: Early Winter Orb won me the game

2-0 (4-2)

Match 3: Peter with Kithkins/Weenie

Game 1: I mulled to 6, He Path to Exiled my dudes (which helped me actually). For some reason, he lost track of his life, swung with his 3 3/3 flying spirit tokens (through Spectral Procession), got me to 2. My turn, I top decked Tribal Forcemage and win with style. He was apparently going to Swords to Plowshares one of his tokens and swing for the win next turn

Game 2: He plays Ethersworn Canonist, then started playing his tokens from Spectral Procession. Then pump them with Honor of the Pure and Ajani Goldmanes. It was too much

Side In: 3x Krosan Grips, 3x Pithing Needles

Game 3: I kept a land heavy hand and gloriously topdecked Land Grants. I was so mana-flooded that I actually hardcasted them. His 3 flying 2/2 flying spirits got there.

2-1 (5-4)

Game 4: Nick with U/W Ninja/Faerie-Still

Game 1: I got mana flooded again with no real threats. My one at a time dudes got countered. by the time I had ample threats, the board was bluesky.

Side In: 4x Leyline of Lifeforce

Game 2: I got a good hand (but for some reason, I cant remember). I was thinking of mulling into Leyline but I took my chances. My chances payed off.

Game 3: Turn 0 Leyline won me the game.

3-1 (7-5)

Top 8: Jamie with U/R/b Rogue-still (his deck was designed to beat goblins since our meta is aggro-infested)

Game 1: He countered my couple 1st dudes, started to pick on my Lords with burn, and to top it all off, he locked me out of the game with Barbarian Ring/Crucible lock. Then he proceeded beat me down with manlands

Side In: 4x Leyline of Lifeforce
Side Out: I cant remember, I think it was Elvish Visionary, Heritage Druid, Quirion Ranger, Priest of Titania

Game 2: I kept a good hand without Leyline of Lifeforce. Big mistake. He countered my 1st guys. I stablized, got him to 5 when he did the following: Lightning Bolts my 4/4 Elvish Archdruid and 4/4 Imperious Perfect, then Volcanic Fallouted the rest. I swung with my 3x 1/1s. On his turn, he gloriously topdecked Volcanic Fallout and cleared my board. He countered my Sylvan Messanger. Tried slowly build my board but he got me with that Ring/Crucible lock. Then he proceeded to beat me down with his manlands

All in all, it was good. Really thrilled that i beat 2 Goblins (they have been owning legacy tourney's here, always on top8s everytime). I also owe it to goblins that half of the decks there have enough goblin/tribal hate.

I really want to maindeck Winter Orbs but I dunno what to remove because i've never had problems with my elves. The list is just so tight. Although, I will not be touching this deck for a while because of all the tribal hate in the meta.

[1maarten1]

Guys... nobody runs NO+ progenitus? That is so friggin FAT!:eek:

Look Di's latest list, and picture it without all the splashes and fetches if you want :smile: I'll try to work on a list with his list as starting point :wink:

I post results later, or are we sort of moving this topic to the survival elf topic now that Di dropped the survivals of his list?

~Maarten

[(nameless one)]

Guys... nobody runs NO+ progenitus? That is so friggin FAT!:eek:

Look Di's latest list, and picture it without all the splashes and fetches if you want :smile: I'll try to work on a list with his list as starting point :wink:

I post results later, or are we sort of moving this topic to the survival elf topic now that Di dropped the survivals of his list?

~Maarten

NOGenitus would be nice. I havent really tested it but I would imagine it helping this deck late game or give the opposing player something to be scared of, diverting his attention away from actual threat elves.

[(nameless one)]

Has anyone tried adding Chalice of the Void/Trinisphere, Stompy Manabase or Winter Orb and Thorn of Amethyst on Elves?

I know, kinda like Mono-Green Chalice Aggro...

[wolf197]

I have been having some success running aggro elves with the extended combo plus aluren. It sounds weird but it has the potential of turn 2 combo off but usually happens turn 3. It will also work to protect the combo from FoW, etc. because they will usually counter the aluren then combo off from there

[Radiant]

Has anyone tried adding Chalice of the Void/Trinisphere, Stompy Manabase or Winter Orb and Thorn of Amethyst on Elves?

I know, kinda like Mono-Green Chalice Aggro...

Nay, all the good cards cost 1GG, thats not what Ancient Tomb wants.

[(nameless one)]

I have been having some success running aggro elves with the extended combo plus aluren. It sounds weird but it has the potential of turn 2 combo off but usually happens turn 3. It will also work to protect the combo from FoW, etc. because they will usually counter the aluren then combo off from there

I don't think putting an elf into the field via Aluren triggers Glimpse of Nature. I could be wrong.

[Illissius]

Sure it does.

"Any player may play creature cards with converted mana cost 3 or less without paying their mana cost and as though they had flash."

It just says you don't have to pay their mana cost. You still play them as normal. If it said something like "put a creature card with converted mana cost three or less from their hand onto the battlefield", then it wouldn't.

[wolf197]

aluren works with glimpse of nature. I play in a meta heavy with threshold and I have had good success running it that way. They seem to worry more about aluren hitting and counter it right off leaving them wide open to the combo

[(nameless one)]

Sure it does.

"Any player may play creature cards with converted mana cost 3 or less without paying their mana cost and as though they had flash."

It just says you don't have to pay their mana cost. You still play them as normal. If it said something like "put a creature card with converted mana cost three or less from their hand onto the battlefield", then it wouldn't.

Isnt play and cast a whole different thing post M10 rules?


"Whenever you cast a creature spell this turn, draw a card"


We need to clear this up. If it actually works, I might actually use it!

[ktkenshinx]

Isnt play and cast a whole different thing post M10 rules?

"Whenever you cast a creature spell this turn, draw a card"

We need to clear this up. If it actually works, I might actually use it!

Aluren and Glimpse of Nature have excellent synergy. Here are the rules references:

701.4a To cast a spell is to take it from the zone it's in (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. A player may cast a spell if he or she has priority. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."

701.4b To cast a card is to cast it as a spell.

701.10b To play a card means to play that card as a land or to cast that card as a spell, whichever is appropriate.

So Aluren allows you to "Play" creature cards. Because those cards are not land cards, they are subsequently "Cast...as a spell" (701.10b). Glimpse of Nature cares if you "Cast" spells. Therefore, Aluren allows you to effectively "Cast" creature spells.

I believe this rules interpretation is correct, but please correct me if I am wrong.

-ktkenshinx-

[wolf197]

I asked a level 2 judge and that is the way it was explained to me. I have used this many times post rule changes and it is very effective.

[sco0ter]

Why doesn't Aluren read:

Any player may cast creature cards....

then??

[FieryBalrog]

Because they just changed "play" to "cast" this year in M10 (although it was also like that way back in the very beginning). Aluren is a card from 10 years ago. The designers weren't psychic.

M10 didn't magically destroy the function of the thousands of cards that said "play". They have all been errata'd to read "cast" unless they can be used with lands (in which "play" stands in for "cast" if its a spell, or "play" if its a land); read Aluren's updated Oracle wording.

[sco0ter]

They have all been errata'd to read "cast" unless they can be used with lands (in which "play" stands in for "cast" if its a spell, or "play" if its a land); read Aluren's updated Oracle wording.

That's what I thought, and what I did, too. I checked the Oracle wording on both Gatherer and magiccards.info. Both have "play" in its text.

Maybe the reason is because of Dryad Arbor.

[kicks_422]

I don't know where else to ask this... Is running both Glimpse and Natural Order in Elves a good idea? For example, a rough draft I just wrote down a couple of minutes ago..

"You Can't See Me" Elves (NO-Glimpse... Haha. Sorry.)

4 llanowar elves
4 fyndhorn elves
4 birchlore rangers
4 heritage druid
4 quirion ranger
4 wirewood symbiote
4 nettle sentinel
1 regal force
1 wickerbough elder
1 progenitus
1 empyrial archangel

4 summoner's pact
4 natural order
4 glimpse of nature
4 land grant

12 forest


SB
4 tormod's crypt
4 choke
4 krosan grip
3 viridian shaman

Untested list. Off the bat, I think Pact might not do too good here compared to Glimpse Elves wth a Grapeshot kill. Still, the deck kind of looks fine... And very easy on the budget too.

EDIT: Whoops, just found this thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14291).

That's not mono-green though.

[JonBarber]

Alright, I don't know if this technically counts as Elf Aggro (it essentially wins by means of aggro) but its a lot more combo-ish.

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Priest of Titania
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visonary
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Concordant Crossroads
3 Elvish Archdruid
3 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Quirion Ranger
2 Land Grant
1 Staff of Domination
9 Forest

The idea is to drop everything out as quickly as possible and kill them. Crossroads gives everything haste allowing you to greatly increase speed as well as kill them the turn you drop everything. I was thinking about adding aluren, but I'm having trouble enough fitting everything in, and once the ball gets rolling, it doesn't seem that hard to drop everything from your hand anyways. Any ideas on things to change/add/remove?

[(nameless one)]

New elf 'lord' coming from Worldwake:


Joraga Warcaller :g:

Creature - Elf Warrior

Multikicker :1::g:

When ~ enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on ~ for each time it was kicked.

All other elves get +1/+1 for each +1/+1 counter on ~.

1/1

Does this help aggro elves?

If you want proof, check this link:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=209170

[Illissius]

C-c-c-combos with Immaculate Magistrate quite well.

[Lcpdenijs]

[QUOTE=(nameless one);414368]New elf 'lord' coming from Worldwake:



Does this help aggro elves?QUOTE]

I think so.
Some elf builds regenrate LOTS of mana so that you can pump up your elves like mad. Could be a replacement for the Mirror Entity perhaps?

[(nameless one)]

C-c-c-combos with Immaculate Magistrate quite well.

I tried playtesting that combo, so far its god-forsaken slow and everyone will see it coming.



I think so.
Some elf builds regenrate LOTS of mana so that you can pump up your elves like mad. Could be a replacement for the Mirror Entity perhaps?

I tried playtesting my X-land Elf Stompy version with it and I gotta say, it is marvelous to use when you have excess mana.

My X-land Elf Stompy version looks like this for now:



11 Forest
1 Pendelhaven (will be Gaea's Cradle when I get it)

4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Wolf-Skull Shaman
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Sylvan Messanger
3 Imperious Perfect
3 Joraga Warcaller
2 Tribal Forcemage

The mainstay in my SB are:

3 Winter Orb
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Lifeforce

Leyline is there just in case someone decided to show up with Chalice of the Void or CounterTop.

Wolf-Skull Shaman could be Elvish Visionary or Talara's Battalion. If you are running Talara's Battalion, I suggest you also run Land Grant. Those three depends on what shifted on my meta. Right now, a lot Land-still decks so I switched to Wolf-Skull Shaman. The third Joraga Warcaller might be switched to a fourth Imperious Perfect (my original list before ran four Imperious Perfect and 2 Elvish Champion)

The deck is a reminisce of the old school X-land Stompy, only it takes advantage of the elvish synergy.

The deck is pretty quick and can outrace Goblins and other aggro. Never really tested with Zoo since its not played around. It owns control, as long as you dont let them recover.

Joraga Warcaller is wicked (used to run Elvish Champion on that spot). He can be consistently played at :3::g::g: and can go on a higher count. During one of my playtesting, I had him to have 10 counters (had Elvish Archdruid, Priest of Titania and Quirion Ranger on the field).

He can be awesome but there was that one instance that I did miss Forestwalk. Overall, I didnt remove Tribal Forcemage because of the evasion via trample.

Any wanna try testing my list and see if you get the same results? I might be playing with crappy players. (So far, I have play-tested with a Merfolk, Goblin, M:u:C, :u:/:w: Landstill and Deadguy decks.)

I know the deck doesnt really have any means of disruption. But the aim is to overwhelm the board and just beat with everything you can.

[DCTopTeam]

I think the new Lord helps. You gonna have the option of pumping him which I think should be easy with the deck's insane mana-generating ability.

[PowrDragn]

I've been searching for a new Legacy deck ot play, and this deck caught my eye. I reviewed a lot of the list on this thread and like da lot of the ideas.

However, having some combo as part of the deck keeps coming up and people can't seen to agree. The other issue I saw was that people are reporting losing matches to mana flooding. It seems that the major issue making sure you produce enough mana, while not getting TOO much.

So, I made alist up. I made a few changes throughout the night. Almost all of my games were against Dredge. I wanted to see what the deck did vs. another insanely fast combo deck. As it turns out it was about 45/55. This includes a couple I lost due to poor decisions and play mistakes. The matchup got up to about 55/45 after I figured things out and made a couple of changes. Post sideboard the matchups is a lot more comfortable.

Anyway, here's what I put together and enjoyed a lot!

Quantum Elves

1 Gaea's Cradle
9 Forest

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Heritage Druid
4 Priest of Titania
3 Elvish visionary
3 Nettle Sentinel
2 Tribal Forcemage
4 Sylvan Messenger
2 Elvish Champion (likely to add one)
4 Imperious Perfect (likely to remove one)
4 Elvish Archdruid

2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Land Grant
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Hurricane
4 Staff of Domination

Sideboard:
(might need some cleaning up)
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nullmage Shepherd
3 Krosan Grip
2 Winter Orb
3 Leyline of Lifeforce

[(nameless one)]

Unless you are running Talara's Battalion, I would suggest minimal Land Grants.

Having 4 Staff of Dominations are too much. Back when I used to run Staff, I only ran two as it was the back up. I would actually suggest 3 Thorns and 3 Staff since Thorns are awesome pseudo-disruption.

If you are planning to get rid of the Staff combo altogether, I would suggest running Winter Orb on main.

[PowrDragn]

I can totally see where you're coming from. I did consider removing one of the Staffs. So, I'm not against moving one of the Thorns main. It also free up another sideboard slot if I want it.

I would like to remove Land Grant, but I'm not sure this version I built is stable enough without it.

[Al-ucard]

What about this?

20 Lands
9 Forest
4 Horizon canopy
4 Wasteland
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Pendelhaven

40 Creatures
3 Llanowar elves
3 Heritage druid
2 Fyndhorn elves
2 Quirion ranger
4 Elvish visionary
2 Priest of titania
3 Wirewood symbiote
3 Viridian Zealot
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Joraga warcaller
3 Elvish champion
4 Imperious perfect
4 Sylvan messenger

60 Total

15 Sideboard
3 Relic of progenitus
3 Dense Foliage
2 Krosan grip
3 Choke
4 Thorn of amethyst

[Esper3k]

Anyone test Bramblewood Paragon with the Warcaller?

Could be clunky, but could be alright as well considering many of the Elves these days are Warriors too (Vanquisher, Perfect + tokens, etc.).

[(nameless one)]

I playtested her before I knew the existence of Joraga Warcaller. There was just a lot more better options and I was already running 20 Elf Warriors (4x Nettle Sentinel, 4x Bramblewood Paragon, 4x Talara's Battalion, 4x Wren's Run Vanquisher, 4x Imperious Perfect).

I tried revisiting her but the dilemma I face now is what slot to remove for that spot?

So far, my deck is running smooth and can keep up with the meta even with the lack of a disruption package (the closest to disruption I have is the sideboarded Winter Orb).

[adder]

Here's my list:

Lands:
16 Forest

Creature:
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Quirion Ranger (the reason I can cut it down to 16 land and still have a functional deck)
4 Priest of Titania
4 Wolf-Skull Shaman
3 Wren's-Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Champion (possibly cutting it down to 3)
4 Sylvan Messenger
5 flex spots

The deck is pretty much textbook, but it works extremely well compared to the variations I've tested in the past. I was tired of getting manaflooded, so I began to skim land off the top until the deck started falling apart, eventually I settled on 16. According to math that is one land per 4 cards, assuming the game lasts 4 turns I should see 2.5 lands, which should be plenty. 15 lands could be fine, the stats aren't changed that much and with 4 Rangers I feel like this deck can function on only one land if it really needs to. One possibility for the last 5 spots is the NOgenitus combo. Would that be my best bet, or should I stick with just Elves?

[YigSnakeDaddy]

I've been thinking about running Elves as my 2nd Legacy Deck (the other being Dredge) and while doing a little research, I stumbled upon this deck that made 1st place out of 22 (iirc) at a german tournament a month ago and I kind of intend to modify it a bit for my own deck.

The Mirror Entity is a nice touch to the otherwise pretty standard elf-fare, I guess. Not sure however about the fetchies. I know they're almost universally useful, but do they make such a difference here?

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Birchlore Ranger
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Heritage Druid
4 Priest of Titania
3 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Mirror Entity
2 Viridian Zealot
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
1 Elvish Harbinger
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Banefire
2 Staff of Domination
1 Concordant Crossroads
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
12 Forest


Sideboard:
1 Bond of Agony
3 Imperious Perfect
4 Krosan Grip
3 Absolute Law
4 Sylvan Messenger

[Clark Kant]

Quick question, is it possible to transform from a close to optimal Aggro Elves deck into a close to optimal Combo Elves deck using the 15 sideboard cards? How would you do it? I know it's casual to do transformative boards, but it seems like it could be fun.


What about this?

20 Lands
9 Forest
4 Horizon canopy
4 Wasteland
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Pendelhaven

40 Creatures
3 Llanowar elves
3 Heritage druid
2 Fyndhorn elves
2 Quirion ranger
4 Elvish visionary
2 Priest of titania
3 Wirewood symbiote
3 Viridian Zealot
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Joraga warcaller
3 Elvish champion
4 Imperious perfect
4 Sylvan messenger

60 Total

15 Sideboard
3 Relic of progenitus
3 Dense Foliage
2 Krosan grip
3 Choke
4 Thorn of amethyst

I like your list a lot. It seems very well thought out. I don't like Heritage Druid or Zealot, but I do like that you are playing absurd number of lords though (14 3cc elves that globally pump all elves +1/+1. :eek:)

That's actually kind of cool as you can easily grow all your elves past the range of Pyroclasm by going that route.

I'm curious to hear how well that deck works for you. Have you made any changes to the list?

Really, the main enemy of elf decks is wrath effects and I guess combo. Elves eats most other aggro, aggro control and stax decks for breakfast. I wish there was a easy way to deal with those two weaknesses though. But atleast by playing so many lord effects, you can always hold threats and a lord or two in your hand to make a speedy recovery in case you get Wrathed.

[YigSnakeDaddy]

Nope, that's still the original list of the guy who won that tournament. No changes yet.

[Elvtyrr]

I'm trying to improve my MU against Zoo as a good pilot can keep me off from my mana elves while establishing their board. Over about 20 games I was 40/60 but almost every game I won was on the back of Progenitals or the Zoo player having a horrible hand. Even when I got the NO off it was usually in a last ditch effort to not die as I finally got to 4 mana, between the all of the cheap burn and lavamancer I was almost never able to establish a board in time. Anyways this is my list right now:

Land
13x Forest
4x Wasteland
1x Gaea's Cradle

One drops
4x llanowar Elves
4x Fyndhorn Elves
2x Quirion Ranger
1x Arbor Elf
2x Joraga Warcaller

Two Drops
4x Priest of titania
4x Wolf-skull Shaman

Three drops
4x Imperious Perfect
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Elvish Champion

Four drops
4x Sylvan Messenger

NOProg package
1x Progenitus
4x Natural Order

I would like to get my Zoo MU to at least 60/40 before I can feel comfortable taking this to GP Columbus this summer. So far in testing I wreck the tempo decks like Canadian thresh, and Merfolk. Most control Mu's aren't bad as I can usually establish before a countertop engine can come online. But the decks with high spot removal, when played correctly against our accel creatures can really ruin my day. Help me...

[(nameless one)]

Hows the single Cradle working for you?

I haven't been testing Elves in a while now (although it is my pet deck). My version kinda mirrors the X-land stompy version without the NO-genitus package. I am going to incorporate it as soon as I get my budget going but in doing so, I need to change my build.

I agree with your call on only having 2 Warcallers, the deck itself rolls over EEs and CotVs. I might start incorporating Winter Orbs and Root Maze and add more control. Even add Vials to get around Iona shenanigans.

I will start playtesting Elves again once the entire Rise of the Eldrazi set gets spoiled. Speaking of ROE, Would a 1 card combo be better than a 5 card combo? (Im talking about the Eldrazi). Its not impossible for us to create absurb amounts of mana. At one point, I was actually playtesting with Darksteel Colossus and I have actually successfully casted him enough times, only to die to StP.

There is that new Eldrazi that has protection from colored spells, couple that with annihilator, I think its worth playtesting. Would you agree to this?

[LOLaSageOwl]

I used and elf deck at my fist Legacy tourney recently, and came in 4th place. All I have to say is that playing a Root Maze first turn and seeing them play a tapped fetch land is AMAZING. Its practically 2 time walks.

Good Matchups: My 2nd Game was against a BGw Threshold. The elf deck in no way cares about spot removal. i just had too many threats for him to counter. He wanted to saves his FoWs for my Champions so I couldn't have forestwalk, but theres still other elf Lords he has to deal with. Creatures that make you more tokens every turn will win you the game against thresh. Goyfs are cool, but Wren's Run Packmaster fueld by Gaea's Cradle just swarms over them. The only thing that will really kill you is if they land a Sensei's Top with a Counterbalance.

Ad Nauseum Combo: Thorn of Amethyst + Root Maze slows them down tremendously. Just pick at their life total as early as you can so they can't get the most out of an Ad Nauseum.

Al in all, an elf deck is pretty much the only deck that can effectively run Root Maze, as far as I know at least. Going elvish Spirit Guide, Forest, Llanowar elf, Root Maze is probably one of the best Turn 1 Legacy moves. You have an early mana base to get going, and they don't. I made alot of play mistakes at my first Legacy tournament, but it was fun. Another note is that I don't think anyone was expecting an elf deck there, but nobody liked root Maze, especially when it's next to a Thorn of Amethyst.

Don't underestimate Elves

[(nameless one)]

Would you like to share your list.

Elf Aggro is my pet deck but ever since the rise of Reanimator, I have temporarily put it aside.

[Tru3z3rox]

Root maze? Really? I run thorn alongside Natural Order/Progenitus. I feel like root maze is not enough to really stop opponents dead in their tracks and doesn't increase your tempo at all. Combo decks hating seeing a turn 1 thorn (Land +ESG)!

I also never know whether it is better to run wastelands or mutavaults. I've settled now on wastelands as it hits Dark depths and can put zoo off of red.

I'd love to post my list here and have you guys comment, but I don't know how. I'm new. :)

[Nelis]

Root maze? Really? I run thorn alongside Natural Order/Progenitus. I feel like root maze is not enough to really stop opponents dead in their tracks and doesn't increase your tempo at all. Combo decks hating seeing a turn 1 thorn (Land +ESG)!

I also never know whether it is better to run wastelands or mutavaults. I've settled now on wastelands as it hits Dark depths and can put zoo off of red.

I'd love to post my list here and have you guys comment, but I don't know how. I'm new. :)

Just write it down and post it.

[Tru3z3rox]

Here is my deck list. Please feel free to criticize.


Lands:
3 Wasteland
2 Gaea's Cradle
12 Forest

Creatures:
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Elvish Champion
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Priest of Titania
4 Llanowar Elf
3 Fyndhorn Elf
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
3 Joraga Warcaller
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Progenitus

Artifacts:
4 Thorn of Amethyst

Sorceries:
4 Natural Order


Sideboard:
4 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Steely Resolve

[Nicote]

Hello, here's my list. I would play it in legacy.
As you can see there's more disruption in it in form of 3 back to basics.
I am not quite sure about the sideboard. Reanimator decks would be a pain.
Main goal is to speed up your game while slowing the opponent until a resolved combo or overwhelm him with creatures. Singleton Regal Force is obvious and the Hydra can be fetched to make pressure or to stop big guys. Maybe here something with flying would be good or at least with reach. What about Cloudthresher? http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&color=+[G]&text=+[reach]&power=+%3E=[5] Only thing is it has no evasion but with the pact and flash we could make some tricks.
Feel free to comment.

// Lands
8 [ZEN] Island (4)
11 [ZEN] Forest (4)

// Creatures
1 [EVE] Regal Force
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
4 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
4 [IA] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [EVG] Llanowar Elves
4 [US] Priest of Titania
1 [UD] Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
2 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
1 [ROE] Khalni Hydra
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
2 [EVG] Wirewood Symbiote

// Spells
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
4 [TE] Root Maze
3 [SH] Intruder Alarm
3 [FUT] Summoner's Pact
3 [US] Back to Basics

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [LE] Caller of the Claw
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [ON] Steely Resolve

[technogeek5000]

Okay come on guys, enough with the random lists. One of the reasons I stopped posting here because all there was was sharing of variations with no real developement.

Lolasageowl was playing my list that I gave to him, and I have to say that it was the perfect meta-game choice, and would have taken second or first if he had not made play mistakes. I'll explain to everyone why my list is competitive in the current format in just a moment.

Here is the list I gave him.
14 Forests
2 Mutavaults
2 Gaea's cradle
1 Oran Rief the Vastwood
4 Root Maze
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Elephant Grass (Retarded Tech, will be running at least one more)
4 ESG
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
3 Llanowar elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
3 Wren's Run vanquisher
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Packmaster

4 Chalice of the void
2 krosan Grip
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Elvish Archdruid
1 Thorn of amethyst
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Wren's Run Vanquisher

The pilot made play mistakes all day, and in no right should have lost any of his matches if it was used correctly (with respect to Sam of course. For your first legacy tournament you did great man!). Infinite life would have lost if Sam had been aggressive and blown up the explosives before it could tank his board, and his only other loss to bant (the winner of the tournament) would have easily been in Sam's favor if he had not sided out packmasters and/or casted 2 perfects early in the game instead of one messenger.

This deck is a glass cannon of sorts. It is fully optimized to handle all forms of aggro and combo with an array of power and mana locking pieces. The singleton Elephant grass was a suggestion made by my father on the way up, and in inspection it has proven to be a invaluable control piece that patches up the rest of the suite. the cumulative upkeep cost is never a problem paying with the escalating mana sources and stalling your opponents board while simultaneously building the strength of your own board always ensures two things: that your opponent will not attack you and that you will always have control of the combat phase. It is especially synergetic with the rest of the mana denial suite as root maze and thorn keep them off of mana as well. Root maze is the single best non-counter disruption spell hand down. For 1 mana you stall your opponents tempo for 2-3 while leaving yours virtually unaffected. This is even amplified by the additional fetchlands seen today because of zendikar. Watching LolaSageOwl play this deck in the tournament, you would scoff if I told you the percentage of games won on the pack of an early root maze. The only reason it is not seen in the format today is because Elves quite literally the only deck that can successfully run root maze in the whole format. With the three piece Root Mize/Thorn/Grass suite the deck can disrupt the opponent while simultaneously building its own mana base and paying threats. Against thresh and other blue aggro control decks, Elves simply plays too many must counter threats and must counter disruption pieces so that they can never truly stabilize barring a counter top lock coming down before a single threat is laid (Very unlikely after tournament play and testing). The powerful aggro game gives the deck a great game against straight aggro like zoo and goblins especially since I have added oran rief/mutavault/grass in the maindeck and archdruids in the sideboard. Combo cannot be stopped by one piece of perma disruption alone, but seeing Sam play, when two come down together (especially post board) the matchup is 50/50 or higher. All this is good and all, but the deck unfortunately does not have a good game against control and decks that run firespout main, which makes this deck a very smart choice in a control light format, but metaphorical match of dogdeball otherwise. The only thing that i would have changed to this list was add a singleton chrome mox because testing showed that a fifth ESG drastically changed the consistency of broken turn one plays).

Some of the other lists: Stop dicking around and win the game (mostly nicote). NO package is not needed after testing and is much better as disruption when not playing against a goldfish (my only real gripe with Tru3's list... test out grass and root mize... you will not be disappointed. Nicote, just play mono green elves with gaea's cradle. The only thing I saw in your list that isnt already in mine is summoner's pact.

The point of this deck is to run fast and synergetic creatures with one sided disruption, and if your deck does not do both then it will not fare well in a tournament. Everyone should seriously take this to heart when building their decks, because it is the truth.

Right now, we should all be working on figuring out the correct number of elephant grasses (for added fun, point and laugh at an ichorid player after laying this bad boy down... their tears taste so good) we should be running and optimizing the creature suite, not posting subpar variations of a deck I have proven multiple times to work.

[Jon Stewart]

Your list looks great.

But not playing 4 Elvish Archdruid, and 2 Joraga Warcaller IS a mistake. Yes Elvish Champion/Imperious Perfect are good, but the Archdruid and Warcaller combo is far stronger and only require four slots for you to include (cut a Champion, a Perfect, and two of something else.)

Have you ever tried those cards, they're really strong tech that are easy to underestimate if you don't try them.

[AznSeal]

whats the difference between elf combo and elf aggro?

[Nicote]

Okay come on guys, enough with the random lists. One of the reasons I stopped posting here because all there was was sharing of variations with no real developement.

Lolasageowl was playing my list that I gave to him, and I have to say that it was the perfect meta-game choice, and would have taken second or first if he had not made play mistakes. I'll explain to everyone why my list is competitive in the current format in just a moment.

Here is the list I gave him.
14 Forests
2 Mutavaults
2 Gaea's cradle
1 Oran Rief the Vastwood
4 Root Maze
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Elephant Grass (Retarded Tech, will be running at least one more)
4 ESG
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
3 Llanowar elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
3 Wren's Run vanquisher
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Packmaster

4 Chalice of the void
2 krosan Grip
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Elvish Archdruid
1 Thorn of amethyst
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Wren's Run Vanquisher

The pilot made play mistakes all day, and in no right should have lost any of his matches if it was used correctly (with respect to Sam of course. For your first legacy tournament you did great man!). Infinite life would have lost if Sam had been aggressive and blown up the explosives before it could tank his board, and his only other loss to bant (the winner of the tournament) would have easily been in Sam's favor if he had not sided out packmasters and/or casted 2 perfects early in the game instead of one messenger.

This deck is a glass cannon of sorts. It is fully optimized to handle all forms of aggro and combo with an array of power and mana locking pieces. The singleton Elephant grass was a suggestion made by my father on the way up, and in inspection it has proven to be a invaluable control piece that patches up the rest of the suite. the cumulative upkeep cost is never a problem paying with the escalating mana sources and stalling your opponents board while simultaneously building the strength of your own board always ensures two things: that your opponent will not attack you and that you will always have control of the combat phase. It is especially synergetic with the rest of the mana denial suite as root maze and thorn keep them off of mana as well. Root maze is the single best non-counter disruption spell hand down. For 1 mana you stall your opponents tempo for 2-3 while leaving yours virtually unaffected. This is even amplified by the additional fetchlands seen today because of zendikar. Watching LolaSageOwl play this deck in the tournament, you would scoff if I told you the percentage of games won on the pack of an early root maze. The only reason it is not seen in the format today is because Elves quite literally the only deck that can successfully run root maze in the whole format. With the three piece Root Mize/Thorn/Grass suite the deck can disrupt the opponent while simultaneously building its own mana base and paying threats. Against thresh and other blue aggro control decks, Elves simply plays too many must counter threats and must counter disruption pieces so that they can never truly stabilize barring a counter top lock coming down before a single threat is laid (Very unlikely after tournament play and testing). The powerful aggro game gives the deck a great game against straight aggro like zoo and goblins especially since I have added oran rief/mutavault/grass in the maindeck and archdruids in the sideboard. Combo cannot be stopped by one piece of perma disruption alone, but seeing Sam play, when two come down together (especially post board) the matchup is 50/50 or higher. All this is good and all, but the deck unfortunately does not have a good game against control and decks that run firespout main, which makes this deck a very smart choice in a control light format, but metaphorical match of dogdeball otherwise. The only thing that i would have changed to this list was add a singleton chrome mox because testing showed that a fifth ESG drastically changed the consistency of broken turn one plays).

Some of the other lists: Stop dicking around and win the game (mostly nicote). NO package is not needed after testing and is much better as disruption when not playing against a goldfish (my only real gripe with Tru3's list... test out grass and root mize... you will not be disappointed. Nicote, just play mono green elves with gaea's cradle. The only thing I saw in your list that isnt already in mine is summoner's pact.

The point of this deck is to run fast and synergetic creatures with one sided disruption, and if your deck does not do both then it will not fare well in a tournament. Everyone should seriously take this to heart when building their decks, because it is the truth.

Right now, we should all be working on figuring out the correct number of elephant grasses (for added fun, point and laugh at an ichorid player after laying this bad boy down... their tears taste so good) we should be running and optimizing the creature suite, not posting subpar variations of a deck I have proven multiple times to work.

I like your list. It's got 10 lords, plenty of mana production and some disruption on it. What I don't like is:

That Root Maze and Thorn alone do not always and effectivly slow your opponent. If you play against Zoo or any deck with not so many no-creature spells Thorn is not so good. It doesn't always work. And Root by itself is also not so good. That is why I thought about Back to Basics. If a land comes into play tapped and doesn't untap that means absolutely no mana. A resolved Back to Basics is most of the time Game won. I don't know your meta but in mine there's a LOT of control decks. Loads of counters, firespout and the sort.
And a fast plan to win is also necessary. That's why I play Intruder Alarm combo. I think relying on having a swarm of elves is a mistake. As I said before there's plenty of firespouts, perish, engineered plague... and having a plan to win in 2 turns is in my opinion necessary.

Anyway, just my thoughts in my meta.

Regards!

[Jon Stewart]

Like I said, I think the main problem with that list is that it doesn't play 4 Archdruid and 2 Joraga Warcaller in lieu of a few of the current lords it plays.

As for disruption, I agree with you, Root Maze and Thorn can be very ineffective against aggro decks, they're only really good against combo.

But B2Bs is similarly weak, it doesn't hit combo, and worst of all, your opponents can fetchup basic lands after you cast the B2Bs ruininng the whole point.

What I would play is Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon. You surprise them and shutdown all their mana in just one turn, and all future fetchlands they draw are mountains as well. You can side out Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon for Root Maze and Thorn of Amethyst against combo.

I like to play a very straightforward build of the deck, just playing the most broken elves available to the deck...


16 Forest
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Joraga Warcaller
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger

I call it the K.I.S.S. build, Keep it simple stupid, none of this fancy tech that backfires more often than not.

[technogeek5000]

@Jon Stewart: The lord package is optimzed at the correct number for the correct usefulness of each. Elvish champion makes your board unblockable against half of the format, essentially winning you the game when played. Imperious Perfect is bay far the best lord, single handedly givign you control of the board, essentially equating to: If you don't have an answer to this, then lets go to the next game. I only run 2 archdruids because as a lord with a good ability, I already run an extra 4 with the same effect, often making his ability superfluous. Joraga, while good, does not provide technical support to the rest of the board and strength wise, adding more power is just winning the game more instead of winning the game more often.

@AZN Seal: Elf combo is an aggro deck that tries to go broken throuh means of synergy. Elf Aggro is an Aggro deck that relies on disruption with consistent creatures.

[Nicote]

But B2Bs is similarly weak, it doesn't hit combo, and worst of all, your opponents can fetchup basic lands after you cast the B2Bs ruininng the whole point.

Not if Root is on board. Fetch would come in tapped.

[(nameless one)]

I really miss this deck. The last time I played this deck, I played it ala X-land stompy. It did not have any disruption at all, making it vulnerable to Combo.

Here was my last decklist:




11 Forest
1 Pendlehaven
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Wolk-Skull Shaman
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messanger
2 Elvish Champion
2 Tribal Forcemage


I would love to add disruption with that, but I dont know what to remove. Nothing is really dead from that list. I have a more balls-to-the-wall list that includes Talara's Battalion and Land Grant (no Wolf-Skull Shaman and less lands). I would love to incorporate Mul Daya Channelers with the balls-to-the-wall list.

Now that someone mentioned combo, I feel like turning my sideboard so I can easily turn the deck around into combo. I fell that this deck's bad matchups can be fixed by using combo.

Has anyone done that before?

[Jon Stewart]

I tried out your deck technogeek and it feels like you devoted so much of the maindeck to the combo matchup that you diluted much of what makes this deck inherently broken. It makes sense if you're building a deck to play at GP Columbus, but it doesn't make sense for most situations where people play elves

People who play elves if they're not expecting to face the combo matchup, ie. in local metas. They don't play it at GPs because there are decks far better suited to an uber competitive metagame of that nature, and elves, no matter how many maindeck slots you devote to combo will probably still lose.

I understand the reason for the Elephant Grass, but I repeatedly found Wellwisher better suited for this task than Elephant Grass against every matchup except for Ichorid. Lifegain shuts down faster decks like Burn and Zoo cold, and even gives decks relying on Tendrils of Agony or Progenitus a very rough time. If your opponent manages to Wrath the board, you will have the time to recover before he can finish you off if you had the chance to use Wellwisher a few times.

I found 2 Umbral Mantle to be ridiculously good in this deck complementing the package of 4 Priest of Titania, 4 Elvish Archdruid and even 2 Wellwisher. It's a must counter card for your opponent, he will go to any lengths to stop it, even if you're just bluffing and don't even have a Priest or Archdruid, the notion that you might topdeck one and win the game straight up will scare bejessus out of him.

I also don't think Elvish Spirit Guide belongs in the deck. It's basically a Lotus Petal that can occasionally be a 2/2. Playing a full playset of Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves and Quirion Ranger is vastly superior and far more consistent.


All that said, I abandoned most of the utility and went with as straight forward a deck as possible, and it works marvelously...

Here's my build of the deck.

16 Forest
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Joraga Warcaller
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger

I call it the K.I.S.S. build, Keep it simple stupid, none of this fancy tech that backfires more often than not. That stuff belongs in the board.

The only modification I would make to the list is to play a Gaea's Cradle whenever I get my hands on one.

[Tru3z3rox]

I tried play testing a version with 3 root maze and 4 thorn, but I was very unhappy with it. It basically punted all of the aggro and control matches just to win better against combo. I think 4 thorn is enough md hate against combo (deals with control too). Many players are also playing mono decks these days with no fetches at all (don't know how true this statement is in your metas). This is why I feel the NO Prog package is better than massive disruption. It disrupts them enough while giving them a clock (if you cannot deal enough damage to ant before they go off then its over even if you disrupt them). I basically lost all of my zoo matches when I had the root mazes proxied in.

I also don't agree with using vastwood (with root maze it isn't as bad). But normally CIPT effects just slow me down too much. I used to run berserk elves and they would goldfish turn 3-5 VERY consistently, but I dropped berserks for more disruption and a consistent way to pull through heavy removal (progenitus).

As for elephant grass I think this depends on your meta. It is a great card, so don't get me wrong. It does tie up your mana which you could be using to win instead.

My next issue is between mutavault and wasteland. I'm currently running 3 because it solves so many issues (hitting a dark depths in response or putting zoo off of red mana). However, the extra attackers/defenders are great especially against tribal lords (LOA and mirror Champions) as it gives mutavault the walk as well!

Summary: I think it is important to balance between disruption and tempo otherwise you'll just sit there disrupting and doing very little damage.

What do you guys think?

@ Jon
I agree with you on the simple build, but the thorns really work wonders against combo and control and don't hurt you THAT MUCH. It is amazing seeing the control player's face when they realize force of will now costs 1-2 and a card/life. I've also beaten ant off of 1 thorn and enough tempo (got him down to 8 before he ad nauseumed). That is why I'm somewhere between you and technogeek on this. I've played tested every form of elves and have settled liking NOelves (even though my hand can get cluttered with NOs or top deck a prog). I feel it is the most consistent form of elves.

[TossUsToLions]

I dont know what is better in the maindeck: Thorns or NO's. Ive been heavily testing this deck for a while and it has been working well

2x Wasteland
14x Forest
4x Natural Order
1x Progenitus
4x Wren's Run Vanquisher
4x Elvish Archdruid
3x Elvish Champion
4x Imperious Perfect
4x Quirion Ranger
4x Wolf-Skull Shaman
4x Sylvan Messenger
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Priest Of Titania
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Sylvan Messenger

it has four thorns in the sb. i usually switch out the natural orders for the thorns in the matchups i need them (ANT).
I think you guys should all really consider wolf-skull shaman. this card is great in so many matchups
also, wren's run vanquishers are so good against the huge amount of decks that run 'goyfs and rhox war monks, which is why i play an entire playset of them

[(nameless one)]

I agree on the effectiveness of NOgenitus combo. Its one of those 'opps I win' deal.

So, why only two Wastelands? Why not run a set?

[Tru3z3rox]

I really like your list, however Quiron Rangers don't work for me and I think wolf-skull is a tad too slow and the wolves have no synergy.

I also run 4 thorn alongside 4 NO (anti-synergy I know, but I can usually easily pay the extra mana) in order to not completely lose the first match. Am I wrong in running them main? I also run 3 mindbreak in the side against combo.

[Jon Stewart]

Fair enough, Thorn of Amethyst makes sense. I'll cut something (4 Champion) for 4 Thorn.

There are only three cuttable cards in the deck, Wren's Run Vanquisher, Elvish Champion and Imperious Perfect. The way this deck functions, every other card in the deck is a staple automatic four of. You will see what I mean if you play the deck, all the other cards are BROKEN in how they synergize with each other. One option that I'm considering is also to make room for 2-4 Arbor Elf in the decklist, because the deck always needs to play a Llanowar Elf equivalent turn one.



Here's my build of the deck.

16 Forest
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Joraga Warcaller
4 Sylvan Messenger

Before you disagree with the build, I suggest playing it, you'll immediately see why every card is there and how well it synergizes with the rest of the deck. The deck feels like Elf Combo most games, going absolutely nuts on turn 3-4.


I think I would play either Thorn or NO, not both. Progen is vulnerable to the same stuff as your elves (Wrath, Humility) and doesn't actually speed up the deck's gold fish and thus doesn't help the combo matchup. Thorn is better IMO.

The question is, is cutting Champion for Thorn the right call or should I instead cut either Vanquisher or Imperious Perfect instead?

Also, should I cut something else to make room for 2-4 Arbor Elf?

[danyul]

Why is pi4 picking fights in every thread I see him post in?

On topic - I think the Archdruid/Warcaller choice and Champion/Perfect choice both have their merits. Archdruid/Warcaller is stronger assuming you draw them both and are allowed to untap with an active Archdruid. Champion/Perfect make better topdecks and can help beatface the turn you draw them. I don't like to depend on untapping with an active Archdruid because you can't always get away with that. It's a matter of taste in my opinion.

[TossUsToLions]

Fair enough, Thorn of Amethyst makes sense. I'll cut something (4 Champion) for 4 Thorn.

There are only three cuttable cards in the deck, Wren's Run Vanquisher, Elvish Champion and Imperious Perfect. The way this deck functions, every other card in the deck is a staple automatic four of. You will see what I mean if you play the deck, all the other cards are BROKEN in how they synergize with each other. One option that I'm considering is also to make room for 2-4 Arbor Elf in the decklist, because the deck always needs to play a Llanowar Elf equivalent turn one.


Are Warcallers really better than Imperious Perfect or Champions? I haven't tested four warcallers yet but i feel like if you can create enough mana where it is useful then you either a.) already are about to win or b.) can just cast a natural order and fetch up a proggy. But like i said i havent tested them much, those are just my initial impressions. What matchups do Warcallers help with? I think that Perfects are irreplaceable due to their ability to create board postition (especially with quirion ranger).

So the big debate still seems to be Thorn vs. NO. NO helps more against merfolk, bant, zoo, and goblins. Thorns help more against ANT, belcher, reanimator, dredge and enchantress. I guess it depends on your meta, but in a large tourney (like GP Columbus), which would be better? I personally like NO but if combo continues to rise at this rate thorns may be the better choice

[Jon Stewart]

I'm just going to ignore pi4 since he seems incapable of having a mature discussion with anyone.


Are Warcallers really better than Imperious Perfect or Champions?

In the particular build, yes, because of the flexibility they offer.

When I have Wirewood Symbiote, I frequently, drop Warcaller for just 1 mana, to fuel either Priest of Titania or Archdruid, which I can untap and reuse multiple times the same turn to generate more mana either with Quirion Ranger or Wirewood Symbiote, bouncing back the Warcaller to do so, only to recast the Warcaller for sometimes in the ballpark of 11-13 mana on the third turn, thus making my Quirion Ranger, Llanowar Elf, Priest of Titania all into either 5/5s, 6/6 or 7/7s to swing in for the win, all without over extending.

It's easy enough to say that making that much mana so early won't happen frequently, or that you will automatically win if you are in a position to generate that much mana, but neither belief is actually true. A hand containing some combination of Quirion Ranger, Wirewood Symbiote, Priest of Titania or Elvish Archdruid frequently lets you generate absurd amounts of mana on turn 3 or 4, all without even overextending. But unless you have either a Warcaller or a Messenger to actually abuse all that mana, you will have nothing to do with that mana, and will be stuck with nothing more than a couple of 2/2s if the card in hand is a Champion or Perfect instead of a Warcaller.

The way Warcaller interacts with Wirewood Symbiote (coming down as a 1/1 initially, and then as a 6/6 or 7/7 that same turn later on once I used it to help generate large amounts of mana), Priest of Titania and Archdruid make it an MVP in my experience.

The same holds true for Quirion Ranger, Sylvan Messenger. And all these aforementioned cards can be abused without overextending. This is why I consider them all to be MVPs in the deck.

The build as I have has a comboesque feel to it. It frequently goes wild and out rights wins on turn 3 or 4 on the backs of these cards.

NO into Proge takes an additional two turns to win after the turn you cast it, and if NO gets countered or Prog gets Edicted or something you suffer card disadvantage where as you are still at card parity if a Warcaller or Sylvan Messenger gets countered. Warcaller frequently wins me games the very same turn (or the very next turn) I cast it thanks to Priest/Archdruid/Ranger/Symbiote shenanigans. Progenitus on the otherhand doesn't speed up the deck at all. Nor does it help deal with the combo matchup or with this decks weaknesses (cards like Wrath, Disk, Damnation and Humilty). Thus I would think Thorn of Amethyst would be better since it actually does give combo and even control decks fits and at the very least delays stuff like Wrath and Humility atleast until your opponent manages to top deck that fifth land they need in order to cast the sweeper through a Thorn. But I can't vouch for Thorn as I have had very little time to play with it. I definately see the potential it has to shore up the combo and control matchups though, not so much with NO.

[unicoerner]

I play elf combo right now, but i am getting interested in aggro a little bit.

I don`t see the reason for NO Prog in this deck, because huge Elves with forest walk will win, too and perhaps even one turn faster.

What`S the exact reason for Wren's Run. Is it the deathtouch? The only creature i fear is Iona and some other Reanimator target, but neither will die to Wren.

Thx for your thoughts.

[Nicote]

I play elf combo right now, but i am getting interested in aggro a little bit.

I don`t see the reason for NO Prog in this deck, because huge Elves with forest walk will win, too and perhaps even one turn faster.

What`S the exact reason for Wren's Run. Is it the deathtouch? The only creature i fear is Iona and some other Reanimator target, but neither will die to Wren.

Thx for your thoughts.

Everytime I drop Wren's Run it takes away a sword from my opponent. Wren's Run is one of the best cards imo. It is a turn 2 drop. It stalls your opponent not willing to sacrifice one of his 8/10 creatures to one of your 30+ creatures. This in case you play against control.
If you play against aggro it's also great. You can just get rid/block his biggest thread. Think about Pile Driver.
And it's a great beater with the boost of the many lords.

Against reanimator creatures with flying there's little we can do G1. G2 maybe with Relic. The only gameplan is to kill before get killed. And a 3/3 turn 2 maybe 4/4 when attacks next turn with help of a lord is a nice way to imprint pressure.

[(nameless one)]

I play elf combo right now, but i am getting interested in aggro a little bit.

I don`t see the reason for NO Prog in this deck, because huge Elves with forest walk will win, too and perhaps even one turn faster.

What`S the exact reason for Wren's Run. Is it the deathtouch? The only creature i fear is Iona and some other Reanimator target, but neither will die to Wren.

Thx for your thoughts.

I personally do not run NO Prog in my deck because of the deck style. You might call it a win-more but it can certainly put you in a position where your opponent cannot recover while not having it would be a close race (such as Zoo)

And I agree that Iona makes this deck cry. Its one of the main reasons why both my pet decks are getting shelved (This and Quinn).

I have actually considered running Vial because of that. But then, I like the idea of Root Maze and Thorn of Amethyst as disruption.

Speaking of disruption, with all the mana elves that we run, has anyone considered Winter Orb?

[Tru3z3rox]

Fair enough, Thorn of Amethyst makes sense. I'll cut something (4 Champion) for 4 Thorn.

There are only three cuttable cards in the deck, Wren's Run Vanquisher, Elvish Champion and Imperious Perfect. The way this deck functions, every other card in the deck is a staple automatic four of. You will see what I mean if you play the deck, all the other cards are BROKEN in how they synergize with each other. One option that I'm considering is also to make room for 2-4 Arbor Elf in the decklist, because the deck always needs to play a Llanowar Elf equivalent turn one.



Before you disagree with the build, I suggest playing it, you'll immediately see why every card is there and how well it synergizes with the rest of the deck. The deck feels like Elf Combo most games, going absolutely nuts on turn 3-4.


I think I would play either Thorn or NO, not both. Progen is vulnerable to the same stuff as your elves (Wrath, Humility) and doesn't actually speed up the deck's gold fish and thus doesn't help the combo matchup. Thorn is better IMO.

The question is, is cutting Champion for Thorn the right call or should I instead cut either Vanquisher or Imperious Perfect instead?

Also, should I cut something else to make room for 2-4 Arbor Elf?

I would NEVER cut champion. It makes your dudes unblockable to half of the format! If you want to cut something for thorn you don't need 4 Joraga or 4 Archdruid. I'd go a 3/3 split.

Also I would run elvish spirit guide over arbor elf. It can be hard cast as a 2/2 later on if you really need it.

True that Prog is vulnerable to those things, but there are also many things that he is INVULNERABLE to as well. For example against pinpoint remove heavy decks such as zoo...I sometimes barely have a llanowar out..but turning that llanowar into Prog is just amazing. It is as was said, an "oops I win" thing!

I actually don't run messanger at all. That may make me crazy, but I prefer visionary simply because it would let me draw into a natural order or a thorn as opposed to just putting everything that I'd need on the bottom. That is just my logic.

[Tru3z3rox]

Are Warcallers really better than Imperious Perfect or Champions? I haven't tested four warcallers yet but i feel like if you can create enough mana where it is useful then you either a.) already are about to win or b.) can just cast a natural order and fetch up a proggy. But like i said i havent tested them much, those are just my initial impressions. What matchups do Warcallers help with? I think that Perfects are irreplaceable due to their ability to create board postition (especially with quirion ranger).

So the big debate still seems to be Thorn vs. NO. NO helps more against merfolk, bant, zoo, and goblins. Thorns help more against ANT, belcher, reanimator, dredge and enchantress. I guess it depends on your meta, but in a large tourney (like GP Columbus), which would be better? I personally like NO but if combo continues to rise at this rate thorns may be the better choice

Warcallers are an AMAZING topdeck when you have lots of mana/priest/archdruid in play. It doesn't provide evasion like champion but it makes your guys huge so you can at least stall.

As for thorns vs NOs...RUN BOTH! I do and getting the extra mana with elves really isn't that big of a deal...you hurt them way more than it hurts you. I'm all about balance and synergy. :)

[Jon Stewart]

Winning the game that same turn, or the very next turn (which is what Warcaller lets you do) is superior to the functions that Elvish Champion, Imperious Perfect or Natural Order provide. Those cards let you win the game 3-4 turns later. The cards I'm running let you win the game this very same turn.

Here is my current list for reference...

// Lands
14 [UNH] Forest

// Creatures
4 [ALI] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [VI] Quirion Ranger
4 [DM] Fyndhorn Elves
4 [10E] Llanowar Elves
4 [FNM] Priest of Titania
4 [M10] Elvish Archdruid
4 [WWK] Joraga Warcaller
4 [EVG] Sylvan Messenger
3 [EVG] Wirewood Symbiote

// Spells
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
3 [LG] Concordant Crossroads

It's perhaps optimal to make room for 3 Elvish Visionary in the deck as thus, I keep going back and forth on whether doing so is worthwhile...

-1 Forest
-1 Sylvan Messenger
-1 Concordant Crossroads/Fyndhorn Elves/Quirion Ranger
+3 Elvish Visionary


Anyone who is curious how this deck works, I encourage you to read this report of three games I played last night...

Game One:

Turn 1: Forest - Tap, Concordant Crossroads, Discard ESG, Fyndhorn Elves - Tap, Llanowar Elves - Tap, Quirion Ranger
Turn 2: Tap Forest, Fyndhorn and Llanowar, Cast Elvish Archdruid (It would have worked similarly with Priest of Titania) - Tap it for 4 mana, Bounce Forest to Hand with Quirion Ranger to untap Archdruid, Recast Forest, Tap it and Tap Archdruid - 9 mana, Cast Joraga Warcaller with 4 +1/+1 counters, Swing with 6/6 Llanowar Elves, Quirion Ranger, Fyndhorn Elves and Joraga Warcaller for the win on turn 2. (This turn would have actually been a lot more ridiculous if I had either a second forest in hand or a Wirewood Symbiote to cast my Warcaller for 1 mana, tap Archdruid, then bounce back Warcaller to untap Archdruid and cast an even bigger Archdruid).

Game Two:

Turn 1: Forest - Tap, Discard ESG, Cast Priest of Titania
Turn 2: Tap my forest cast Quirion Ranger, Tap Priest for 2 mana, Untap Priest with Ranger bouncing back the forest (I only had one forest in my opening hand, otherwise this turn would have been a lot more ridiculous), recast Forest - Tap, cast Glimpse of Nature, play Fyndhorn Elves, draw a card, tap Priest for 3 mana, cast more elves and draw more elves (don't remember which ones, top deck into Concordant Crossroads, cast that, tap my elves for more mana to play more elves including a Sylvan Messenger, eventually top deck into a second Glimpse, the rest of the game is hazy but long story short, I won that same turn with a giant Joraga Warcaller (for 20+ mana) with 2 Quirion Rangers, a Sylvan Messenger, and Joraga Warcaller all swinging in as 12/12s.

Game Three:

Turn 1: Forest - Tap, Cast Heritage Druid, Discard ESG, Cast Fyndhorn Elves, Discard 2nd ESG, Cast Joraga Warcaller (it could have been any of the many one cc elves in my deck). Tap all three elves to Heritage Druid to make GGG and cast Elvish Archdruid.
Turn 2: Tap Forest - play Wirewood Symbiote, Tap Archdruid for 4 mana, Bounce Warcaller untapping Achdruid with Symbiote, Tap Archdruid for 3 mana, Recast Warcaller for 7 mana, swing with 5/5 Heritage Druid, Fyndhorn Elves. My opponent immediately conceded as he had no way to kill off 5/5 creatures (he wasn't playing white). This game would have been likewise ridiculous and a guarenteed turn 3 win if I had a Sylvan Messenger in hand as my 7th card instead of Wirewood Symbiote.

So there's three seperate games where I won on turn two using three completely different methods (game one via comboing off with Crossroads, game two via comboing off with Glimpse, game three via going the normal aggro route). And oddly enough, all three games, I only had one Forest in my hand rather than two (but had ESG to make up for it).

This is also why if you're going the Archdruid/Priest of Titania route, the benefit you get from cards like Birchlore Ranger is minimal and Grapeshot/Mirror Entity are wholly unneccesary.

Of course, the real pro with going this route is not the ability to combo off, it's the ability to win the game by turn 3-4, even without comboing off, on the back of cards like Sylvan Messenger drawing into the elves needed to fuel a huge Joraga Warcaller that lets you win the same turn you cast it.

It's a very recent build, perhaps not optimized but so far pretty consistently combos off and wins on turn 1, turn 2, turn 3 or turn 4 in every game I've played (I've played 13 games with it so far). I am convinced that this strategy is by far the best strategy for any elf deck (aggro or combo) to adopt.

While it is comboesque, it is very much an aggro deck as well, because it can play the beatdown role just as effectively as any aggro elf deck I've seen thanks to it's 8 lord effects and it's ability to consistently drop a ton of creatures before turn 3, even without comboing off, just off the back of Sylvan Messenger.

[Tru3z3rox]

I personally do not run NO Prog in my deck because of the deck style. You might call it a win-more but it can certainly put you in a position where your opponent cannot recover while not having it would be a close race (such as Zoo)

And I agree that Iona makes this deck cry. Its one of the main reasons why both my pet decks are getting shelved (This and Quinn).

I have actually considered running Vial because of that. But then, I like the idea of Root Maze and Thorn of Amethyst as disruption.

Speaking of disruption, with all the mana elves that we run, has anyone considered Winter Orb?

I feel like people aren't seeing the reason for the NO prog package. It is not necessarily win more. It basically turns the tide in a deck with heavy removal spells (zoo, landstill, etc). You can argue about wrath effects, but wrath effects would hurt you more if you had to play out all of the elves in your hand instead of having one prog out. You can hold back the rest of your elves and just swing away with him. The format right now is very heavy on pinpoint bounce and pinpoint removal. I personally like having both the disruption and combo in the deck.

You can easily race Iona. This deck doesn't care about her much unless you're really slow. The real threat is blazing archon and he is basically gg unless you have some sort of answer (maybe running slaughter pact in the board?)

My last point is I do think that prog speeds you up. Granted if you're goldfishing he may not, but if you guys are being countered, removed, or killed he will definitely help quite a bit as he is immune to most things. He basically invaldiates most cards in the opponents hand and that is virtual card advantage.

[Tru3z3rox]

Winning the game that same turn, or the very next turn (which is what Warcaller lets you do) is superior to the functions that Elvish Champion, Imperious Perfect or Natural Order provide. Those cards let you win the game 3-4 turns later. The cards I'm running let you win the game this very same turn.

Here is my current list for reference...

// Lands
14 [TE] Forest (1)
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Elvish Visionary
4 [WWK] Joraga Warcaller
3 [EVG] Sylvan Messenger
3 [10E] Llanowar Elves
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [FNM] Priest of Titania
4 [M10] Elvish Archdruid
4 [EVG] Wirewood Symbiote
3 [DM] Fyndhorn Elves
3 [VI] Quirion Ranger

// Spells
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
2 [LG] Concordant Crossroads
2 [6E] Worldly Tutor

It's a very recent build, but so far pretty consistently combos off and wins on turn 3 or turn 4 in every game I've played (I've played 13 games with it so far). And while it is comboesque, it is very much an aggro deck as well, because it can play the beatdown role just as effectively as any aggro elf deck I've seen thanks to it's 8 lord effects and it's ability to consistently drop a ton of creatures before turn 3, even without comboing off, just off the back of Elvish Visionary and Sylvan Messenger.



Too comboish for me. Imagine topdecking one of those combo pieces with very few elves in play. You guys need to remember how much removal there is around. People are splashing white just for STP and Path. And your list basically punts the combo match as you have no disruption. There is just no way we can be faster than combo without disrupting them.

[Jon Stewart]

Imagine topdecking one of those combo pieces with very few elves in play. You guys need to remember how much removal there is around. People are splashing white just for STP and Path.

That's pretty much a nonissue. I've won thru multiple pieces of removal/countermagic with that list. You should take it for a spin before jumping the gun as to what it's weaknesses are.

I do agree with you that combo is a tough matchup. That's what sideboards are for. I am playing 4 Thorn and 4 Leyline of the Void in the board. I also have the option to play Root Maze, or lots of other cards that give combo decks fits. And this deck has the ability to side in all 15 pieces of disruption from the sideboard if needed and still function as a perfectly functional and competitive Elf Aggro list.

There is actually three elf variants, not two.

Elf Combo

Elf Aggro

Elf Control

Elf Control is what nameless one is running imo. He's playing tons of disruption maindeck, in the form of Thorns, Root Maze, Elephant Grass, Wasteland, and possibly even Winter Orb.

For such a deck, I actually think NO Prog makes sense and fits in rather well.

I'm playing a cross between Elf Combo and Elf Aggro. It combos off consistently on turn 3 or 4 to win. But if the opponent stops the combo, then it still plays nearly identical to a standard Elf Aggro deck. NO Prog wouldn't work in my build.

[TossUsToLions]

I feel like people aren't seeing the reason for the NO prog package. It is not necessarily win more. It basically turns the tide in a deck with heavy removal spells (zoo, landstill, etc). You can argue about wrath effects, but wrath effects would hurt you more if you had to play out all of the elves in your hand instead of having one prog out. You can hold back the rest of your elves and just swing away with him. The format right now is very heavy on pinpoint bounce and pinpoint removal. I personally like having both the disruption and combo in the deck.


Exactly. This is the reason why I added NO's (plus I had a full playset sitting around, so why not use them?). Against a deck like zoo it is difficult to even keep two creatures on the board. My matchup against zoo went from 30-70 them to a very even matchup, maybe even 55-45 me. So many decks also play StP, like Bant. If they take out one of your lords then drop a tarmogoyf and a rhox war monk, you're kinda screwed. NOing into a Prog is also an awesome unexpected play when you're proBant opponent already has one out :smile:

[Tru3z3rox]

Exactly. This is the reason why I added NO's (plus I had a full playset sitting around, so why not use them?). Against a deck like zoo it is difficult to even keep two creatures on the board. My matchup against zoo went from 30-70 them to a very even matchup, maybe even 55-45 me. So many decks also play StP, like Bant. If they take out one of your lords then drop a tarmogoyf and a rhox war monk, you're kinda screwed. NOing into a Prog is also an awesome unexpected play when you're proBant opponent already has one out :smile:

Haha..ya..its so good in the NOProg mirror. Seeing as how you can aggro without him anyway!

[TossUsToLions]

Haha..ya..its so good in the NOProg mirror. Seeing as how you can aggro without him anyway!

Well obviously that's not the main reason i run him, i just thought that it was a funny play that happened. I play it because it helps in a lot of matchups where you can't keep enough creatures on the board due to spot removal and you're forced to overextend. Some people may think that it is unneeded because they think the deck can win faster without it. This may be true against decks that don't have spot removal or firespouts, but we win the matchups against these (few) decks with or without Progenitus

[Tru3z3rox]

I was thinking the other day about adding a natural order target to my deck. What do you guys think of Empyrial Archangel alongside Progenitus? Too much? I think it would improve over matchups and could save you if you're near death.

[routlaw]

I was looking to build a tribal aggro deck to best exploit my metagame. Elves seems pretty good based off my meta's following characteristics:

*) No regular zoo or reanimator appearances.
*) No control decks or threshold decks splashing red for firespout/burn
*) Combo is out there, but not a lot of storm combo and I don't mind punting G1 of those matchups.
*) TONS of tropical islands/FOW/goyf decks in various shells. (what I normally run) Four swords to plowshares is all they have for removal, usually.
*) Lots of mono-color and tribal aggro. The mono-color aggro is often pretty midrangey, and there's an even split between goblins and merfolk for the tribal showing.

Given it's so light on mass removal, I was thinking about building some kind of elf aggro list that could come out and outrace the mono-color and tribal decks and abuse half my meta's helplessness against forestwalk.

I want to run a sort of stompy list w/ Land Grant and Talara's Battalion (as mentioned earlier in the thread by nameless one)-I want something that's a faster even if it isn't as resilient as other builds. I think it will give me a better shot against the rest of my field as a result since there's so little burn or sweepers out there to ruin me for overextending. I did go for some Heritage Druid+Nettle Sentinel to give me more combinations of explosive 1 land or no land/1 land grant hands and for making casting Talara's Battalion easier.

Here's the list I've been testing:

// Direct Mana Sources
8 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

// Mana Dorks
4 Priest of Titania
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
3 Heritage Druid

// Lords
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Champion
2 Elvish Archdruid

// Beaters
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Talara's Battalion
3 Nettle Sentinel

// Ridiculous trampling card draw
4 Sylvan Messenger

SB:
4 Thorn of Amethyst (combo, non-creature decks)
4 Krosan Grip (counterbalance, anything that will board in EE or deed)
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tsunami
1 Ulamog, The Infinite Gyre (enchantress, grindstone)

The Mul Daya Channelers are very good-the deck has a total of four non-land, non-creature permanents, and most of the time it is a 5/5 beater for 3 that gets bigger. Sylvan Messnger manages to be even more fantastic here, you almost always get 3 and often keep all four.

Testing has been OK so far. You often have one land to work with,and with ranger out that's usually all you really need anyway. Hertiage Druid also lets you get around an over reliance on Priest of Titania (the #1 plow target in the deck if the opponent knows what they are doing) , a common occurrence I had when testing -if the Priest bit it, I was in trouble. One of the things I have seen is getting out a lot of mana elfs, and maybe just one lord, and then having a bunch of 2/2s w/ an empty hand, which isn't bad if the lord is a Champion but it can run out of steam against other creature decks, especially if the lord gets countered or plowed.

Other times you just get the nuts, dump your hand by turn 3, reload w/ a messenger next turn and dump it out again afterward or even on the same turn (happens often). Ranger is just sick in this deck.

The deck is pretty easy to play (mulliganing is sorta tricky, especially w/o scouting beforehand in G1, but that's not a problem for a small metagame like mine) and dumps its hand pretty fast. I have to play around Perish but it's still not tech I see a lot of in my local metagame despite it being bonkers good against all the bant decks around (mainly because few people play black).

I do have some specific questions for people with more experience playing the deck:

Q1) I am only running 3 Heritage Druids/3 Nettle Sentinels. I don't always need a Heritage Druid out, and Nettle Sentinel is undercosted beats (that untaps almost every turn) but not such a huge body that it is impressive compared to Talara's (easy to cast in this deck) and Mul Daya Channelers (huge beatstick that laughs at a T2 goyf or turn 3 knight). Seems right to me in testing.

Q2) More lords sure would be nice-I certainly have enough small elves that would benefit from being 3/3s instead of 2/2s (or worse, 1/1s). Don't know what to cut for it though. I am thinking about 4 Elvish Archdruid and only 2 Imperious Perfects, since the mana generation on T2/T3 seems more important than making more dudes with this deck since I have so much threat density already.

Q3) Enough forests? One too many? I really just want a hand that has at least any of the following:

a) One forest+dorks.
b) Land Grant+ESG.

The other stompy lists had 7 forests but I got scared and put in a comfort Forest because Force of Will/Daze against a Turn 1 Land Grant is savage and can't keep that hand if I know they are playing blue.

Q4) Bring in Grip against Goblins? They are glacial slow compared to this deck w/o lackey (easily blocked/traded for) or a vial.

I've tested so far against Merfolk (really good b/c he splashes green for goyf, but would have overrun him w/o it) and Natural Order counterbalance, which also had a hard time keeping up and got destroyed by forestwalk. We noted that Progenitus seemed to be less relevant here since if he ever plowed a creature of mine (and he usually had to), it meant that Progenitus was likely a three turn instead of two turn clock since I don't take damage from fetchlands.

I'm not expecting as good matchups agianst Black decks or combo but again I'm OK with that provided I get a good showing against Bant decks, tribal aggro, and underdeveloped mono or two color aggro decks.

Any suggestions? Hoping that someone who's piloted this kind of deck in the past might have some ideas.

[edgewalker]

@routlaw - I would suggest cutting land grant as it often can bite you in the rear. I understand it's use with battalion but you play enough acceleration and 1 drops that it's probably safe to cut in place of a land or another mana elf.

[routlaw]

I've found that with the Heritage Druids around it's actually a whole lot easier to get out the battalion anyway. It was actually very difficult to do so when I was just running a build without the Heritage Druids around.

Thinking of just adding in land to replace it if I go that route, and maybe cutting all the battalions for lords (+2 archdruids, +2 warcallers)-the batallions get a good bit more clumsy when you actually need at least four mana (2 average at that point to cast an elf, 2 more for the battalion) every time you want to cast it instead of a free land grant+2 mana. I certainly play enough creatures that the extra pump might be worth it anyway.

The Channelers though are beastly. They just run over war monk/goyf early on, and that's a been huge for getting in pressure even without a Elvish Champion on the board.

[snackfu]

Game One:

Turn 1: Forest - Tap, Concordant Crossroads, Discard ESG, Fyndhorn Elves - Tap, Llanowar Elves - Tap, Quirion Ranger
Turn 2: Tap Forest, Fyndhorn and Llanowar, Cast Elvish Archdruid (It would have worked similarly with Priest of Titania) - Tap it for 4 mana, Bounce Forest to Hand with Quirion Ranger to untap Archdruid, Recast Forest, Tap it and Tap Archdruid - 9 mana, Cast Joraga Warcaller with 4 +1/+1 counters, Swing with 6/6 Llanowar Elves, Quirion Ranger, Fyndhorn Elves and Joraga Warcaller for the win on turn 2. (This turn would have actually been a lot more ridiculous if I had either a second forest in hand or a Wirewood Symbiote to cast my Warcaller for 1 mana, tap Archdruid, then bounce back Warcaller to untap Archdruid and cast an even bigger Archdruid).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but this must have been a turn three kill since you could not swing with Llanowar or Fyndhorn because they were tapped for mana to start turn two. Either that or something else is missing in your progression.

[(nameless one)]

I've found that with the Heritage Druids around it's actually a whole lot easier to get out the battalion anyway. It was actually very difficult to do so when I was just running a build without the Heritage Druids around.

Thinking of just adding in land to replace it if I go that route, and maybe cutting all the battalions for lords (+2 archdruids, +2 warcallers)-the batallions get a good bit more clumsy when you actually need at least four mana (2 average at that point to cast an elf, 2 more for the battalion) every time you want to cast it instead of a free land grant+2 mana. I certainly play enough creatures that the extra pump might be worth it anyway.

The Channelers though are beastly. They just run over war monk/goyf early on, and that's a been huge for getting in pressure even without a Elvish Champion on the board.

I agree with the Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinel combo.

I ran a similar list:



8 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Talara's Battalion
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messanger
2 Elvish Champion
2 Tribal Forcemage

The last time I piloted this deck was before M10 (I had Elvish Visionary on Elvish Archdruid's spot). I came top4 (1st overall by ranking) on a 28 man tourney.

I want to pilot this deck again to an upcoming tournament. I have been having this arguement on whether I should run Talara's Battalion or Elvish Visionary (tempo vs. card advantage).

Since I have 10 lords and Tribal Forcemages, I am thinking of switching Talara's Battalion with Elvish Visionary although Talara's Battalion has been great (and shes a great bait for spot removal)

Also, I would also like to add Winter Orb for late game disruption but I havent really tested it. Has anyone tried Winter Orb?


The only changes I have done so far was switch Talara's Battalion with Wolf-Skull Shaman but I am thinking of running it again. I havent touched the deck in a while. I do miss the deck, I will try to encorporate Channelers on my build.

[technogeek5000]

That's pretty much a nonissue. I've won thru multiple pieces of removal/countermagic with that list. You should take it for a spin before jumping the gun as to what it's weaknesses are.

I do agree with you that combo is a tough matchup. That's what sideboards are for. I am playing 4 Thorn and 4 Leyline of the Void in the board. I also have the option to play Root Maze, or lots of other cards that give combo decks fits. And this deck has the ability to side in all 15 pieces of disruption from the sideboard if needed and still function as a perfectly functional and competitive Elf Aggro list.

There is actually three elf variants, not two.

Elf Combo

Elf Aggro

Elf Control

Elf Control is what nameless one is running imo. He's playing tons of disruption maindeck, in the form of Thorns, Root Maze, Elephant Grass, Wasteland, and possibly even Winter Orb.

For such a deck, I actually think NO Prog makes sense and fits in rather well.

I'm playing a cross between Elf Combo and Elf Aggro. It combos off consistently on turn 3 or 4 to win. But if the opponent stops the combo, then it still plays nearly identical to a standard Elf Aggro deck. NO Prog wouldn't work in my build.

Or, you know, renaming my deck and thread is cool too (though not entirely mine i am entirely aware, but I have played a major part in this decks development on here and salvation ever since it used to be called crystalline elves. In short, this deck is meant to be aggro-control, and not just pure aggro. There is the elf aggro I play, and the elf stompy that you play). I truly do hate posting in this thread, as the deck never makes progress the way the discussion occurs here. Its quite simple, my list is good, and the reasons have been posted numerous times in this thread and proven in tournament settings. Its a very crucial point of this deck that it must be able to do something else then go retarded (which it is still able to do exceedingly well even when running 9 non elf disruption pieces). Your lists clearly scoop to everything that isnt aggro, and any arguments to the contrary are plain false. Combo today easy pilots through one piece of disruption and very often two, and unless your running something in the maindeck as well as sideboard, your punting a third of the spectrum. Control has no problem handling a swarm of creatures, and I guarantee you will not be able to race them before this happens. This is not a worthy tradeoff for winning the aggro matchup, i guarantee you. The reason that the other lords are better then joraga and disruption pieces are better then combo pieces because they are all not only powerful, but independently powerful. This means that sometimes your deck will go busted at times when my deck can only go partially busted (which I am adamant is more then enough to deal with the aggro decks in the format) and other times your deck will do what mine does in the combat phase but not disrupting the opponent to the point where it is impossible for them to keep up. Cheap 1-2 mana permanent one sided pieces of disruption are a major core to this deck, and I am stalwart in the defense of my statement that root maze is currently the best card in the format.

Your decks work fine in theory, but are not tailored to face an opponent with disruption realistic to what it is likely to face in a tournament setting (not just combo...)

For reference one more time, here is my current list, and I strongly suggest that everyone look at it before constructing their own.

13 Forests
2 Mutavaults
2 Gaea's cradle
1 Oran Rief the Vastwood
1 Chrome Mox
4 Root Maze
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Elephant Grass
4 ESG
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
3 Llanowar elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
2 Wren's Run vanquisher
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Packmaster

4 Chalice of the void
2 krosan Grip
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Vanquisher
1 Thorn of Amethyst

[(nameless one)]

Has anyone tried doing a Challice Aggro based Aggro Elf (like Mono-Green Chalice Aggro)

Instead of running their normal creature base and swords equipments, why not substitute it with mana elves, aggressive elves and lords?

I mean Llanowar Elves and Elvish Spirit Guides are already elves. Replace Swords of Fire and Ice, Swords of Light and Shadow and Troll Ascetic with Lords. Landwalk snakes with other elves.

Anyone ever tried that?

And please, if you have not tried it, do not trash talk it. Thats what other folks essentially did to MGCA but so far, MGCA seems alright. I know that deck itself is inconsistent but with elvish synergies, it is possible that we can make that shell more consistent.

[technogeek5000]

Has anyone tried doing a Challice Aggro based Aggro Elf (like Mono-Green Chalice Aggro)

Instead of running their normal creature base and swords equipments, why not substitute it with mana elves, aggressive elves and lords?

I mean Llanowar Elves and Elvish Spirit Guides are already elves. Replace Swords of Fire and Ice, Swords of Light and Shadow and Troll Ascetic with Lords. Landwalk snakes with other elves.

Anyone ever tried that?

And please, if you have not tried it, do not trash talk it. Thats what other folks essentially did to MGCA but so far, MGCA seems alright. I know that deck itself is inconsistent but with elvish synergies, it is possible that we can make that shell more consistent.

Yes, that was tested approxiamtely a year and a half ago. What essentially happened with that is you gained the bonuses of chalice and other bigger artifacts but lost the inherent speed of elves. So the case essentially became

Well i'm playing Elf chalice aggro, but then I mine as well be playing Elephant stompy... and if Im playing elephant stompy, then I mine as well play dragon or faerie stompy.

[TossUsToLions]

Or, you know, renaming my deck and thread is cool too (though not entirely mine i am entirely aware, but I have played a major part in this decks development on here and salvation ever since it used to be called crystalline elves. In short, this deck is meant to be aggro-control, and not just pure aggro. There is the elf aggro I play, and the elf stompy that you play). I truly do hate posting in this thread, as the deck never makes progress the way the discussion occurs here. Its quite simple, my list is good, and the reasons have been posted numerous times in this thread and proven in tournament settings. Its a very crucial point of this deck that it must be able to do something else then go retarded (which it is still able to do exceedingly well even when running 9 non elf disruption pieces). Your lists clearly scoop to everything that isnt aggro, and any arguments to the contrary are plain false. Combo today easy pilots through one piece of disruption and very often two, and unless your running something in the maindeck as well as sideboard, your punting a third of the spectrum. Control has no problem handling a swarm of creatures, and I guarantee you will not be able to race them before this happens. This is not a worthy tradeoff for winning the aggro matchup, i guarantee you. The reason that the other lords are better then joraga and disruption pieces are better then combo pieces because they are all not only powerful, but independently powerful. This means that sometimes your deck will go busted at times when my deck can only go partially busted (which I am adamant is more then enough to deal with the aggro decks in the format) and other times your deck will do what mine does in the combat phase but not disrupting the opponent to the point where it is impossible for them to keep up. Cheap 1-2 mana permanent one sided pieces of disruption are a major core to this deck, and I am stalwart in the defense of my statement that root maze is currently the best card in the format.

Your decks work fine in theory, but are not tailored to face an opponent with disruption realistic to what it is likely to face in a tournament setting (not just combo...)


I understand that you may have tested your deck a lot, but so have many of us, including myself. I've been playing elves since i started magic and continuously tweak it as new cards come out and the metagame changes. You may think that you have the optimal build, but to be honest there are some changes that i wuold make. There is no one best build in an elf deck. There are different routes you can go with it and it depends on your playstyle and meta. I have tested against all kinds of decks, aggro, combo, control, and a mixture of these. My deck is still perfroming well. I think discouraging people from posting their own decks and new ideas just because you think you have "the best deck ever!" is counter-productive and against the reasons for what this forum was made for. Not everyone wants to play your exact deck and we all want to help each other out here by posting suggestions and new ideas. I know you make some logical arguments and are obviously knowledgeable about elves and magic in general, but if you dont like a certain idea it would be better to give suggestions on ways to fix the decks instead of just saying "make my deck. It's the bee's knees."

[technogeek5000]

I understand that you may have tested your deck a lot, but so have many of us, including myself. I've been playing elves since i started magic and continuously tweak it as new cards come out and the metagame changes. You may think that you have the optimal build, but to be honest there are some changes that i wuold make. There is no one best build in an elf deck. There are different routes you can go with it and it depends on your playstyle and meta. I have tested against all kinds of decks, aggro, combo, control, and a mixture of these. My deck is still perfroming well. I think discouraging people from posting their own decks and new ideas just because you think you have "the best deck ever!" is counter-productive and against the reasons for what this forum was made for. Not everyone wants to play your exact deck and we all want to help each other out here by posting suggestions and new ideas. I know you make some logical arguments and are obviously knowledgeable about elves and magic in general, but if you dont like a certain idea it would be better to give suggestions on ways to fix the decks instead of just saying "make my deck. It's the bee's knees."

Meta's matter of course, but the suggestions I make are definately not made out of a sense of self righteousness or anything similar. There are specific and logical reasons why Joraga WarCaler, Talara's Battalion, Nettle sentinel combo, NOprog combo, glimpse of nature, etc... are not meant for this deck. You will never hear me say my deck is the optimal build; I know it isnt simply from the fact that it constantly changes every week or two. What I was trying to get across is that there is a specific playstyle to this deck, and to achieve it, you have to run certain cards and keep certain strategies intact. When they are changed, the deck is inherently changed and is no longer Elf Aggro. I am not saying that in a given meta, decks like elf stompy or combo can't perform as good as or better then my list would, but what I am saying is those are different decks.

This decks game plan is aggro-control, and if the list you run is straight aggro or aggro combo, then you and me are playing very different decks.

If my comments came off as immature or irrational (my last post did in hindsight) I apologize. I do not discount any variation of elves simply because it is not aggro control (although I am confident that Root maze should be in everyones list, but that is a different matter open to discussion).

[TossUsToLions]

Meta's matter of course, but the suggestions I make are definately not made out of a sense of self righteousness or anything similar. There are specific and logical reasons why Joraga WarCaler, Talara's Battalion, Nettle sentinel combo, NOprog combo, glimpse of nature, etc... are not meant for this deck. You will never hear me say my deck is the optimal build; I know it isnt simply from the fact that it constantly changes every week or two. What I was trying to get across is that there is a specific playstyle to this deck, and to achieve it, you have to run certain cards and keep certain strategies intact. When they are changed, the deck is inherently changed and is no longer Elf Aggro. I am not saying that in a given meta, decks like elf stompy or combo can't perform as good as or better then my list would, but what I am saying is those are different decks.

This decks game plan is aggro-control, and if the list you run is straight aggro or aggro combo, then you and me are playing very different decks.

If my comments came off as immature or irrational (my last post did in hindsight) I apologize. I do not discount any variation of elves simply because it is not aggro control (although I am confident that Root maze should be in everyones list, but that is a different matter open to discussion).

I am also sorry if my post was aggresive. I understand your point of view, though. I am currently testing a deck where i am taking out my NO/Prog package and trying out a mixture of root mazes and thorns. I was going to go 4 thorns and 3 root mazes because root mazes do nothing in multiples whereas thorns do. I was playing thorns in sb for combp but now since im playing them main what should i put in the sb for the combo matchups? I was thinking mindbreak traps or chalice of the voids, along with my 5-6 graveyard hate cards. Any other suggestions?

[Tru3z3rox]

Meta's matter of course, but the suggestions I make are definately not made out of a sense of self righteousness or anything similar. There are specific and logical reasons why Joraga WarCaler, Talara's Battalion, Nettle sentinel combo, NOprog combo, glimpse of nature, etc... are not meant for this deck. You will never hear me say my deck is the optimal build; I know it isnt simply from the fact that it constantly changes every week or two. What I was trying to get across is that there is a specific playstyle to this deck, and to achieve it, you have to run certain cards and keep certain strategies intact. When they are changed, the deck is inherently changed and is no longer Elf Aggro. I am not saying that in a given meta, decks like elf stompy or combo can't perform as good as or better then my list would, but what I am saying is those are different decks.

This decks game plan is aggro-control, and if the list you run is straight aggro or aggro combo, then you and me are playing very different decks.

If my comments came off as immature or irrational (my last post did in hindsight) I apologize. I do not discount any variation of elves simply because it is not aggro control (although I am confident that Root maze should be in everyones list, but that is a different matter open to discussion).

The issue I find with root maze is that it is not as one-sided as thorn is. Even thorn is a 2 of in my current build, however, I'd feel more comfortable with it as a 3 of. I just don't know what to take out for it as the deck is very tight already. I just don't get why root maze is so good if it slows you down as well (I get that you have mana dorks and priests, but still it doesn't do as much good as you think. Or at least in my testing it didn't. I'd also like to run a third ESG I think)

Here is my list:

Lands:
13 Forests
2 Gaea's Cradle
3 Wasteland

Artifacts:
2 Thorn of Amethyst **

Sorceries:
4 Natural Order

Creatures:
1 Progenitus
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Elvish Champion
3 Joraga Warcaller
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Priest of Titania
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 Elvish Spirit Guide **
4 Imperious Perfect

Sideboard:
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Mindbreak Traps
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Steely Resolve
3 Krosan Grip




Wasteland is more important than mutavault in my opinion. It takes care of so many problems that otherwise would hinder us and works SO WELL with thorn. It helps me push through g1 against combo and burn sometimes (Barbarian ring).

Would you guys really recommend root maze? I just don't see it functioning in the same was as thorn for elves. I used to run thorn as a 4 of, but it has come down to 2.

[(nameless one)]

I have a really good question:

How does this deck play aggro-control? Where exactly does the control come from?

[Tru3z3rox]

I have a really good question:

How does this deck play aggro-control? Where exactly does the control come from?

Root maze and thorn of amethyst.

[technogeek5000]

Root maze and thorn help to impede the opponents tempo while keeping yours intact. The decks gameplan is that it will play creatures and at the same time play permanents that stop your opponent from developing your board while your board progresses at a constant, or even increasing speed. Other cards that help this strategy out are wasteland (excellent in combination with mana disruption, mutavault and wasteland are completely interchangeble as utility options) and elephant grass which enables the deck to answer ichorid and Prog, and when you have even a under developed board position and this is in play, your opponent is prevented from attacking you based on the superior strength of your combined blockers to his limited attackers. Elephant grass is also incredible in conjunction with root maze/waste/thorn because it forces the opponent to focus each of his turns on either playing spells or attacking as he is prevented from doing both. I ind root maze to be incredibly strng in this deck because of the massive amounts of exceleration we run combined with a low land count and lack of fetchlands. The fact that root maze is a two for one against Fetchlands (the fetch CIPT and the land it searches for CIPT) means that it hoses most of the format single handedly, robbing them of one to three turns throughout the game (with the advent of zendikar fetchlands of course) and universely helps to shore up every matchup that uses more then one color (IE almost everything). Root maze hoses combo, hoses control, is easily castable early in the game in unison with mana producing elves, improves zoo to the point where its 50/50 or greater (ive played against it twice in tournament settings and only lost one game in both matches), etc...

@Tru3: I suggest you complete the playset of ESG if you decide to test the root mazes, it allows for more busted openings and turn 1 Llanowar root maze is a remarkably strong turn one and so far I have yet to lose a matchup where this has happened. This is the reason I run a singleton chrome mox in my build, as it acts as the 5th ESG.

Edit:

I am also sorry if my post was aggresive. I understand your point of view, though. I am currently testing a deck where i am taking out my NO/Prog package and trying out a mixture of root mazes and thorns. I was going to go 4 thorns and 3 root mazes because root mazes do nothing in multiples whereas thorns do. I was playing thorns in sb for combp but now since im playing them main what should i put in the sb for the combo matchups? I was thinking mindbreak traps or chalice of the voids, along with my 5-6 graveyard hate cards. Any other suggestions?

I would suggest chalice of the void because it doubles as hate against zoo decks among other things.

Edit again: What do all of you think about horizon canopy. One of the decks problems is that it doesnt draw and it can be easily swapped in for other utility lands.

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/cards/14907.jpg

[Tru3z3rox]

Root maze and thorn help to impede the opponents tempo while keeping yours intact. The decks gameplan is that it will play creatures and at the same time play permanents that stop your opponent from developing your board while your board progresses at a constant, or even increasing speed. Other cards that help this strategy out are wasteland (excellent in combination with mana disruption, mutavault and wasteland are completely interchangeble as utility options) and elephant grass which enables the deck to answer ichorid and Prog, and when you have even a under developed board position and this is in play, your opponent is prevented from attacking you based on the superior strength of your combined blockers to his limited attackers. Elephant grass is also incredible in conjunction with root maze/waste/thorn because it forces the opponent to focus each of his turns on either playing spells or attacking as he is prevented from doing both. I ind root maze to be incredibly strng in this deck because of the massive amounts of exceleration we run combined with a low land count and lack of fetchlands. The fact that root maze is a two for one against Fetchlands (the fetch CIPT and the land it searches for CIPT) means that it hoses most of the format single handedly, robbing them of one to three turns throughout the game (with the advent of zendikar fetchlands of course) and universely helps to shore up every matchup that uses more then one color (IE almost everything). Root maze hoses combo, hoses control, is easily castable early in the game in unison with mana producing elves, improves zoo to the point where its 50/50 or greater (ive played against it twice in tournament settings and only lost one game in both matches), etc...

@Tru3: I suggest you complete the playset of ESG if you decide to test the root mazes, it always for more busted openings and turn 1 Llanowar root maze is a remarkably strong turn one and so far I have yet to lose a matchup where this has happened. This is the reason I run a singleton chrome mox in my build, as it acts as the 5th ESG.

Edit:


I would suggest chalice of the void because it doubles as hate against zoo decks among other things.

Edit again: What do all of you think about horizon canopy. One of the decks problems is that it doesnt draw and it can be easily swapped in for other utility lands.

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/cards/14907.jpg

I feel like that subjects me much more to a well placed counter and really lowers the aggression of the deck. I think the thorns are enough to improve our combo matchups, but I would like to increase both the thorn and ESG to 3. What would you cut for them without removing too much aggression?

@13 lands
I used to play with 12 and many times it would be just fine. I agree thought that an extra land and mana dork were necessary. I had to cut a thorn and an ESG for them though....

[Hawdes]

Hey guys... I've been playing various lists of elves through out my magic years. Everything from Elf ball, Survival Elves, Combo Elves, aggro elves etc.

This is what my list is looking like right now, and yes, I know it varies a lot from the threads decklists. Although I find it pretty decent at drawing cards and accumulating pressure on the opponent.



4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
4 Wasteland
3 Forest
2 Savannah

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archrduid
4 Imperious Perfect
2 Elvish Champion
2 Joraga Warcaller
1 Progenitus

4 Natural Order
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Staff of Domination


The sideboard is currently a WIP. Mainly focused on fightning Reanimator, Zoo, Different CB/Top decks and ANT combo. Although I haven't come up with a good solution to combo just yet.



4 Krosan Grip
3 Planar Void
3 Absolute Law
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Slots


I must say that the synergy with Staff of Domination and the priests/druids are pretty wicked. When you hit a total of 5 elves, one of which are either Priest or Archdruid, you can go infinite mana, which results in infinite cards.
It also plays a nice role of control element in the Reanimator matchup. I've outraced an Ioona on green several times with the staff, by just tapping her down.

But I still feel that elves has a lack of card draw unless I go infinite with staff, which leaves me playing Glimpse (I know, it's more powerful in combo builds with CMC 1 elves). Wirewood Symbiote and Elvish Visionary isn't exactly a fast card draw engine.
Would be glad if I could get some constructive input.

I've already thought of IF I should run Heritige Druid and Nettle Sentinel, but I feel that they both are a little lackluster when they're by themselves. Atleast the other CMC 1 elves produce mana by their own.
What are your thoughts and suggestions? Why should I play Heritige and Nettle over Fyndhorn/Llanowar?

Oh and I'm thinking of opting the Staff of Domination to 3, I still have to test how well the deck runs when facing Zoo with 3 Absolute Law and 3 Staff of Domination.

[technogeek5000]

I made several changes to my list after some testing and dealing myself 20 hands.

-2 Mutavault
-1 Forest
-1 Chrome Mox
+2 Wasteland
+2 Horizon Canopy

Which makes my list...

12 Forests
2 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Gaea's cradle
1 Oran Rief the Vastwood
4 Root Maze
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Elephant Grass
4 ESG
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
3 Llanowar elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
2 Wren's Run vanquisher
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Packmaster

4 Chalice of the void
2 krosan Grip
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Vanquisher
1 Thorn of Amethyst

Wasteland proved to be more game changing with the addition of elephant grass then the Mutavaults were. Also Horizon Canopies turned out to be surprisingly helpful as they function as a mana source when your laying your threats but cantrip when your hand is empty to give the deck more gas.

[Jon Stewart]

Hey guys... I've been playing various lists of elves through out my magic years. Everything from Elf ball, Survival Elves, Combo Elves, aggro elves etc.

This is what my list is looking like right now, and yes, I know it varies a lot from the threads decklists. Although I find it pretty decent at drawing cards and accumulating pressure on the opponent.



4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
4 Wasteland
3 Forest
2 Savannah

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archrduid
4 Imperious Perfect
2 Elvish Champion
2 Joraga Warcaller
1 Progenitus

4 Natural Order
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Staff of Domination


The sideboard is currently a WIP. Mainly focused on fightning Reanimator, Zoo, Different CB/Top decks and ANT combo. Although I haven't come up with a good solution to combo just yet.



4 Krosan Grip
3 Planar Void
3 Absolute Law
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Slots


I must say that the synergy with Staff of Domination and the priests/druids are pretty wicked. When you hit a total of 5 elves, one of which are either Priest or Archdruid, you can go infinite mana, which results in infinite cards.
It also plays a nice role of control element in the Reanimator matchup. I've outraced an Ioona on green several times with the staff, by just tapping her down.

But I still feel that elves has a lack of card draw unless I go infinite with staff, which leaves me playing Glimpse (I know, it's more powerful in combo builds with CMC 1 elves). Wirewood Symbiote and Elvish Visionary isn't exactly a fast card draw engine.
Would be glad if I could get some constructive input.

I've already thought of IF I should run Heritige Druid and Nettle Sentinel, but I feel that they both are a little lackluster when they're by themselves. Atleast the other CMC 1 elves produce mana by their own.
What are your thoughts and suggestions? Why should I play Heritige and Nettle over Fyndhorn/Llanowar?

Oh and I'm thinking of opting the Staff of Domination to 3, I still have to test how well the deck runs when facing Zoo with 3 Absolute Law and 3 Staff of Domination.

Your list looks pretty cool Hawdes. Just a few suggestions. Play 4 Joraga Warcaller, even if it means cutting 2 Imperious Perfect. Warcaller synergizes far better with Glimpse, Priest, Archdruid, and even Symbiote.

Play Umbral Mantle instead of Staff of Domination. It does the exact same thing, but can do it for one less mana and with one less elf, so it's even faster and more potent.

I'm not convinced that Natural Order and Glimpse belong in teh same deck together or more importantly, that they work well together. Devoting 5 slots to NO makes Glimpse much weaker.

And since NO usually takes you three turns to win, where as Glimpse usually lets you win the same turn you cast it, I would opt to play Glimpse over NO. But only if you are willing to play some lower cc elves, like all 4 Warcaller. Cards that could take those slots include Elvish Spirit Guide, Sylvan Messenger, or Heritage Druid.

[Tru3z3rox]

Your list looks pretty cool Hawdes. Just a few suggestions. Play 4 Joraga Warcaller, even if it means cutting 2 Imperious Perfect. Warcaller synergizes far better with Glimpse, Priest, Archdruid, and even Symbiote.

Play Umbral Mantle instead of Staff of Domination. It does the exact same thing, but can do it for one less mana and with one less elf, so it's even faster and more potent.

I'm not convinced that Natural Order and Glimpse belong in teh same deck together or more importantly, that they work well together. Devoting 5 slots to NO makes Glimpse much weaker.

And since NO usually takes you three turns to win, where as Glimpse usually lets you win the same turn you cast it, I would opt to play Glimpse over NO. But only if you are willing to play some lower cc elves, like all 4 Warcaller. Cards that could take those slots include Elvish Spirit Guide, Sylvan Messenger, or Heritage Druid.

I still prefer NO over glimpse. Glimpse is very conditional while NO is not. All that NO needs is a singleton creature to become progenitus. Glimpse can also fizzle and requires too many cards to be devoted to keeping it going.

What do you guys think of thorn mainboard now that mystical tutor is banned? I think combo will endure and at least 2 md are still necessary. It also functions well against control and burn.

[Hawdes]

Your list looks pretty cool Hawdes. Just a few suggestions. Play 4 Joraga Warcaller, even if it means cutting 2 Imperious Perfect. Warcaller synergizes far better with Glimpse, Priest, Archdruid, and even Symbiote.

Play Umbral Mantle instead of Staff of Domination. It does the exact same thing, but can do it for one less mana and with one less elf, so it's even faster and more potent.

I'm not convinced that Natural Order and Glimpse belong in teh same deck together or more importantly, that they work well together. Devoting 5 slots to NO makes Glimpse much weaker.

And since NO usually takes you three turns to win, where as Glimpse usually lets you win the same turn you cast it, I would opt to play Glimpse over NO. But only if you are willing to play some lower cc elves, like all 4 Warcaller. Cards that could take those slots include Elvish Spirit Guide, Sylvan Messenger, or Heritage Druid.

I only run Glimpse of Nature to give me added card draw when I don't have the power engines that generate tons of mana, to atleast draw into some pressure. It even takes some FoWs now and then since ppl tend to think I'm playing combo elves straight of the bat. This lets me resolve NO into Prog as a suprise factor. They play fairly well together since my build is focused on generating tons of mana, which either way will let me have mana for elves, or mana for NO into Prog. I can't say that I've run into sticky situations when going of with Glimpse and not having cards to play or just straight stop on a NO.

Don't really think that Umbral Mantle is all that good. The control element of Staff of Domination is sick and it draws you cards, which is wild. In control element, I mean the option to tap a creature is nice, and it being colorless makes it even better. I've gone infinite mana a lot of games and drawing almost my whole library without any problem. It lets me even compete with Reanimator Game 1, which is nice. Even if I can't obtain unlimited mana, it still offers some important life gain from time to time, control in tapping, and of course it sets a feeling of fear into my opponent when they know that I could go wild with it.

The only thing I'm feeling right now is to change the numbers, and add some combo wins in my sideboard against matchups that simple can't be won through an attack phase.
And since I run 11 non elf cards + lands, Sylvan messenger feels a little lackluster. Been playing regular elf lists without glimpse and staff, but I've always felt that they couldn't follow through unless I had the nuts hands and my opponent couldn't keep up with me.
They run out of force pretty quick. That's why you need the I Win button in NO. It turns tides in battles.
I must say though, cutting the Perfects is the last lord I would cut, since she's a threat by herself if not handled, generating 2/2's every turn ain't nothing to frown upon. I would rather cut the questionable landwalk lord, moving him to the board when I need to squeeze through against decks running green.


I still prefer NO over glimpse. Glimpse is very conditional while NO is not. All that NO needs is a singleton creature to become progenitus. Glimpse can also fizzle and requires too many cards to be devoted to keeping it going.

What do you guys think of thorn mainboard now that mystical tutor is banned? I think combo will endure and at least 2 md are still necessary. It also functions well against control and burn.

I still like NO, and that's why I run it. It's house against matchups we have problems with, like Zoo. They burn all our lords out and effectivly makes our elves unable to compete. If you can stabilize long enough, or be fast enough and resolve a NO early as hell, then they often scoop.
I play Glimpse only since I feel I need the added card draw in the deck. I can't really rely on Staff and unlimited mana or Visionary and Wirewood to net me enough cards that I need to keep pressure on my opponent. Glimpse is the only card draw that fit well into a green deck that circles around puking out creatures fast and hard. Compare with Harmonize.

I would call my list a mainly aggressive elf build, but ways to go into combo mode and be very explosive. I just need some Combo win cons in my sideboard to board in, i.e. 1 Grapeshot or 1 Banefire.

Although I appriciate both of your guys input and I do sometimes go around in my head if either would be better dropping.
But when I have my hand with Heritage and Nettles and nothing else going, I stare at subpar elves doing basically nothing against the decks I'm paired against.
I feel that every elf in my deck contribute on their own. Llanowars/Fyndhorns ramp mana, Quirion protects lands, Wirewood protects core pieces for the deck to function and the lords, yah... They're pretty massive to land either way. They have to deal with them first.

But that's just my two cents from testing my deck out. I would highly recommend you guys take list for a spin to see the possibilites, but also help me see the flaws which are hard to locate when you create something your own. It's easy to forego tells when you're so dedicated to get a thought working.

[nexus blue]

Feel free to share your thoughts. Crossroads is kind of lame, but occasionally allows for a quick kill. I'm not posting a SB, as that's totally dependent upon what you plan to be facing.

13 Forest

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Priest of Titania
3 Sylvan Messenger
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Joraga Warcaller
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Concordant Crossroads
1 Hurricane

2 Staff of Domination

It does fast aggro, it does fast combo. Sometimes it fizzles, but I think that's due to keeping hands I should have mulligan'd.

[boclfon479]

I didn't get a chance to look through the whole thread, but what do you guys think about running a version of this deck that runs like merfolk, as in most of the creatures are lords, and it had utility spells?

I feel like if we make a version that plays:

eladamri, lord of leaves (forestwalk and shroud)
Jorga warcaller (multikicker lord)
elvish champion (+1/+1 and forestwalk)
imperious perfect (+1/+1 and make dudes)
tribal forcemage (morph that gives a creature type +2/+2 and trample when flipped)
elvish archdruid (+1/+1 and priest of titania)

edit:

Also, i feel like this could also work because the deck would have 5+(depending on how many eladmri's you play) forestwalk enablers, making it easier to get in vs zoo and lands

[Arsenal]

OP Suggestion:

Please card tag everything as people unfamiliar with specific Elves (a lot of us I would imagine, even seasoned Sourcers) don't know what these cards do. Thanks.

[Hawdes]

Feel free to share your thoughts. Crossroads is kind of lame, but occasionally allows for a quick kill. I'm not posting a SB, as that's totally dependent upon what you plan to be facing.

13 Forest

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Priest of Titania
3 Sylvan Messenger
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Joraga Warcaller
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Concordant Crossroads
1 Hurricane

2 Staff of Domination

It does fast aggro, it does fast combo. Sometimes it fizzles, but I think that's due to keeping hands I should have mulligan'd.

How do you like the Staff of Domination? Does it warrent it's space in the deck?

[nexus blue]

Per the Staff of Domination, yeah, I really like it. With the Glimpses and Sylvan Messengers I often don't need it to build up a quick army to win, but it's awesome as an alternative - unlimited life, draw, etc. Two seems about perfect, as I don't want to have too little synergy with the Messengers. Emrakul is fun; I know he's been talked about as well as Pro, but I can hard cast Emrakul, sometimes as quickly as the third turn.

Also, I know I'm not running any Elvish Visionary, which I think is kind of lame as it helps with draw and is an elf, but I don't know what to cut. Sometimes I hate Concordant Crossroads - having more than one in the first eight or ten cards sucks - but when I can play a turn two crossroads with a priest of titania and start producing, it's a beautiful thing. Any thoughts?

As for card tagging, I would do it if I knew how. Sorry!

[Hawdes]

Per the Staff of Domination, yeah, I really like it. With the Glimpses and Sylvan Messengers I often don't need it to build up a quick army to win, but it's awesome as an alternative - unlimited life, draw, etc. Two seems about perfect, as I don't want to have too little synergy with the Messengers. Emrakul is fun; I know he's been talked about as well as Pro, but I can hard cast Emrakul, sometimes as quickly as the third turn.

Also, I know I'm not running any Elvish Visionary, which I think is kind of lame as it helps with draw and is an elf, but I don't know what to cut. Sometimes I hate Concordant Crossroads - having more than one in the first eight or ten cards sucks - but when I can play a turn two crossroads with a priest of titania and start producing, it's a beautiful thing. Any thoughts?

As for card tagging, I would do it if I knew how. Sorry!

You could check out my list in this thread. It packs Staff, Visionary and NO Prog aswell as tons of lords and glimpse. It works pretty well in my opinion.
And for those matchups where you can't simply win due to Moat or something similar, you're able to board in for the combo win and deliver a large Banefire in their face for x = infinity if you like.
It could give you some ideas of what route you want to go with your list. Either way, it's up to you to create your own deck that fits your play style and your needs.

[Arsenal]

Force of Will

You cardtag by using '(cards)CARDNAME(/cards)'

Replace the ( with [ and it'll show up correctly. Pretty handy feature The Source added.

[Tru3z3rox]

Now that combo is less prevalent, what do you guys think of running 2 steely resolves in the main? Most decks run some sort of removal and this could prove effective in killing cards in their hand.

[danyul]

Steely Resolve is bad because it means you can no longer untap/bounce your own dudes with Quirion Ranger or Wirewood Symbiote.

[(nameless one)]

All the Elf Threads have been talking about this:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3407/elfup.jpg

Would this particular elf help Aggro Elves? Possibly a replacement for Wolf-Skull Shaman or Elvish Visionary

I remember seeing a Living Wish Variant. Maybe a replacement for that to grab silver bullets?

Anyone wanna talk about this?

[The Big Ragu]

If I had an Elf deck, this is how I would run it. My friend seems convinced that Lightning Greaves works excellently in elf decks, but somehow I just think there are better cards that could be run in its place.

// Lands
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle
2 [TE] Wasteland
16 [SHM] Forest (1)

// Creatures
1 [LRW] Wren's Run Packmaster
1 [7E] Elvish Champion
1 [LE] Timberwatch Elf
2 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
2 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 [FNM] Quirion Ranger
2 [MOR] Heritage Druid
2 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
2 [MOR] Wolf-Skull Shaman
2 [ON] Wellwisher
3 [AP] Sylvan Messenger
3 [DM] Fyndhorn Elves
3 [9E] Llanowar Elves
3 [M10] Elvish Archdruid
4 [ON] Elvish Vanguard
4 [US] Priest of Titania

// Spells
3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [VI] Elephant Grass
SB: 2 [7E] Compost
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [TE] Choke
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip

[technogeek5000]

I just saw the fauna shaman today and Im gonna try testing a few and see where it can be worked in... It seems like a really good candidate though at first glance :)

[Abizzle]

I've been cruising through these forums for a while hoping to find some help for my elf aggro. My meta is filled with gobos, reanimator, dragon stompy and ant. I've been playing this with my friends for a while but its all table legacy. I plan on attending a tourney soon and I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions, here's my current list. This is just my main deck btw. I like the NO package but sadly cant afford it atm so this is what I have for the moment.


4 llanowar elves
4 elves of deep shadow
3 jorga warcaller
4 priest of titania
4 wren's run vanquisher
4 viridian zealot
4 imperious perfect
4 elvish archdruid
4 sylvan messengers
2 wrens run packmaster

4 eyeblight's ending

4 verdant catacombs
2 bayou
13 forest

[technogeek5000]

I see what your trying to do with eyeblight's ending, but target removal in this deck sticks out like a sore thumb. If you must run spot removal, then i suggest a white splash for swords to plowshares because the only time eyeblight will be better in your hand than STP is when your boosting dumb amounts of mana, and the white splash allows you to run horizon canopy. For controling your opponent, cards like thorn of amethyst, root maze, elephant grass work more effectively (serve the same purpose but they are permanent and one sided in this deck)... especially when accompanied with wasteland in your mana base.

Edit: Also, elves of deep shadow should be Fyndhorn Elves and you should be running gaea's cradle.

[Abizzle]

Yo, thanks for the response. I see what you are saying about the white splash, but I love the synergy between eyeblight's ending and sylvan messenger. Being able to keep it when I play the messenger is pretty solid. I guess I'm trying to fully maximize his potential since he creates ridiculous card advantage. As far as the amount of mana that seems to be rarely a problem due to having 16 mana elves.

I found a build that is similar to mine on here http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27727

The strange thing about this deck is it uses vial, but that would help against my iona problem.

How has fauna shaman worked out for you technogeek5000?

[Sharpfang]

I'm wondering what people are playing in there SB

I'm trying
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Krosan Grip
2 Caller of the Claw
5 Graveyard hate

[nexus blue]

My SB:

4 Krosan Grip
4 Root Maze
1 Elephant Grass
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Banefire
3 Birchlore Rangers

It's not the most optimized, but when I choose to play my Elves it works. I'm sure there is better instead oft he ability to switch to a more combo-ish approach, but it comes in handy and only takes up a few spots.

[technogeek5000]

I changed my list ever so slightly and I am testing a few other possible changes:

main:
-1 Root maze
+1 Llanowar Elves

Side:
-2 Tormod's Crypt
-2 Ravenous Trap
+4 Leyline or Relic (probably relic)

What this does for my list is make it slightly more consistent as I noticed that occasionally I would get hands where I would have big creatures and mana denial pieces but nothing to accelerate with. Also the change of the side is just to make my grave hate package more consistent rather then flexible but conditional. As of now I am testing the 8th mana elf in place of champion for the same reason previously stated and I am trying to fit in the 3rd wasteland without removing a green source.

@Sharp fang: For reference, here is my sideboard...

4 Chalice of the void
2 Krosan Grip
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Wren's Run Vanquisher
1 Thorn of Amethyst

Chalice of the void stacks with the root mazes and thorns in my board against combo and comes in against Zoo. It is really the only card I would recommend every sideboard play 4 of in this deck. The relics are obviously my grave hate. The four creatures I run in my board are what I side in against aggro decks to make my deck threat dense... the grips are general outs and the 4th thorn in the board comes in against control and combo decks.

[czeluff]

Hey Techno, thx for the games on Workstation. This deck can be very tough to deal with, especially on the draw if you play the Root Maze.

Wanted to discuss the SB for a sec. I like Relic of Progenitus, but I think Wheel of Sun & Moon is worth looking into. The extra mana doesn't seem like it'd matter much. All of the decks that you're trying to stop by using Relic/Wheel/Tormod's etc run fetchlands, which you already slow down immensely using the Root Maze. Get Wheel out, and it's usually GG for them. People are smart enough to put Pithing Needles on Tormod's and Relics; that's why for Survival/Vengevine Madness I swapped over to Wheels. Now Dredge and Reanimator scoop when it drops. Work looking into.... you'd also be shutting down people who abuse Crucible / Life From the Loam.

[technogeek5000]

I've decided to take out elephant grass in light of the format (or atleast my meta) shifting away from aggro to control and add in viridian zealots in its place. Also, Ive replaced an archdruid with a krosan grip in the board to help with this shift and the archdruid was superflous anyways since its there only to make the deck denser in threats and there are only three thorns to side out.

Main:
-2 Elephant grass
+2 Viridian Zealot

Side:
-1 Elvish Archdruid
+1 Krosan Grip

[technogeek5000]

This deck just got stupid

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1132/txecbg7rryen.jpg

This card fixes the decks major problems by itself. Protection against mass removal and target removal turns the matchup against control (the decks weakest matchup) around by itself. The pump ability is a perfect mana sink, allowing the deck to rush with a sub optimal board. Here is the list I am proposing Post Scars:

12 Forest
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Wasteland
2 Gaea's cradle
3 Root Maze
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Llanowar elves
3 Fyndhorn elves
3 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2 Viridian Zealot

4 Chalice of the void
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Krosan Grip
2 Wren's Run Vanquisher
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Thorn of Amethyst

[Wakkarr]

This deck just got stupid

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1132/txecbg7rryen.jpg

This card fixes the decks major problems by itself. Protection against mass removal and target removal turns the matchup against control (the decks weakest matchup) around by itself. The pump ability is a perfect mana sink, allowing the deck to rush with a sub optimal board. Here is the list I am proposing Post Scars:



You may have missed the part where is says 'another target Elf Creature'. i.e. It still dies to all the removal in the format, so while mass removal will be less effective, assuming you leave a bunch of green mana up, it certainly doesn't 'fix' the decks problems.

Being able to bash for 10 with this guy + another 2/2 if you have 5 mana seems decent, but I think the liability of having a Gray Ogre which doesn't really have the sort of generic benefit to your other creature you need will mean this guy is SB at best. i.e. Why play to beat MD Firespout when you can just board to beat it?

I am curious why you play only 3 MD Archdruid. It seems like having access to large amount of mana is the main reason to play Azuri. i.e. Archdruid makes it much easier to play this guy and still have mana open to regen/immediately overrun/double overrun next turn.

[technogeek5000]

You may have missed the part where is says 'another target Elf Creature'. i.e. It still dies to all the removal in the format, so while mass removal will be less effective, assuming you leave a bunch of green mana up, it certainly doesn't 'fix' the decks problems.

Being able to bash for 10 with this guy + another 2/2 if you have 5 mana seems decent, but I think the liability of having a Gray Ogre which doesn't really have the sort of generic benefit to your other creature you need will mean this guy is SB at best. i.e. Why play to beat MD Firespout when you can just board to beat it?

I am curious why you play only 3 MD Archdruid. It seems like having access to large amount of mana is the main reason to play Azuri. i.e. Archdruid makes it much easier to play this guy and still have mana open to regen/immediately overrun/double overrun next turn.

I did miss that... that makes him worse. I'll have to go test him then.