[Article] Going Green: The Evolution of Suicide Black in Legacy Part 2

[Bardo]

Link. (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/16384.html)

by Dan Signorini (nitewolf9) and Anwar Ahmad (AnwarA101)

A bit heavy on lists and light on prose, this was an otherwise well-written article that covers a lot of ground in a short amount of space.

Well done.

FYI - The Legacy column on SCG now runs on Wednesday.

[Volt]

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[SuckerPunch]

Why did you completely ignore the actual evolution that has been going on in the Eva Green thread in an article about the evolution of Eva Green?

Reanimate, white splash for Vindicate, StP, and Putrefy have all been making rounds over at the thread bringing success to everyone that opts to run them.

I don't see anyone in the thread pleased by maindeck Leyline. Even the article admitted as much. And the general consensus on Pithing Needle there seemed to be that it is inferior to Seal in most every metagame. What exactly does Pithing Needle consistently do that Seal doesn't do (going after fetchlands is very inconsistent). Because most anyone can name a dozen or so popular cards that Seal does deal with that Pithing Needle does nothing against (Dreadnought, Counterbalance and Standstill being the most prominent).

Why not spend that article space on the cards that several people have found to actually be worthwhile in the deck (Reanimate, Vindicate)?

Otherwise, good article overall. Though it was a bit heavy on lists.

[nitewolf9]

Pithing needle deals with a few important things that seal does not.
First, survival of the fittest can be a very big problem for the deck. Running needle main significantly changes that matchup for the better. It also hits sensei's divining top, another card that I don't like to see because it helps people recover from your disruption much faster. Needle slows down control decks in much the same way that seal does, and also comes down off of colorless mana. I will say that seal can be a bit more effective against landstill, but needle is still fantastic in the matchup.

Essentially though the most significant target for needle is sensei's divining top (which effectively neuters counterbalance as well). It is simply another strong option to consider.

The white splash is interesting but I'm not sure you gain enough to warrant it. You are still turning a strength into a weakness in order to gain a little bit more flexibility in vindicate. If it works for you that's cool, but I'm still not convinced. Reanimate seems good, and I have tried it off and on since Deep6er suggested it, but I think it may be better as a sideboard option. That's at least what I have found. Running 1 or 2 main is probably fine though as the card can be quite strong in a lot of matchups and effectively lets you run 5 or 6 tarmogoyfs.

[AnwarA101]

Why did you completely ignore the actual evolution that has been going on in the Eva Green thread in an article about the evolution of Eva Green?

Reanimate, white splash for Vindicate, StP, and Putrefy have all been making rounds over at the thread bringing success to everyone that opts to run them.

I don't see anyone in the thread pleased by maindeck Leyline. Even the article admitted as much. And the general consensus on Pithing Needle there seemed to be that it is inferior to Seal in most every metagame. What exactly does Pithing Needle consistently do that Seal doesn't do (going after fetchlands is very inconsistent). Because most anyone can name a dozen or so popular cards that Seal does deal with that Pithing Needle does nothing against (Dreadnought, Counterbalance and Standstill being the most prominent).

Why not spend that article space on the cards that several people have found to actually be worthwhile in the deck (Reanimate, Vindicate)?

Otherwise, good article overall. Though it was a bit heavy on lists.

Writers can only write about what they know. I don't know whether Reanimate or Vindicate would be any good because I haven't tried them. I haven't tried them because I'm not particularly convinced they would be any better than what we've already tried. I don't know of any lists that have done well with Reanimate (electrolyze played 1 maindeck recently) and Vindicate.

[SuckerPunch]

Sorry if my previous post came off as harsh.

I was just all amped up when I read the article's title that it would cover some of the new tech that's being discussed with Eva Green. Please do try out the newer tech before dismissing it off hand though. Lots of others have tried it, and so far, none of them seem to want to go back to the old list.

Say what you want about Pithing Needle, but it's old. Both it and Leyline have been discussed for use in Eva Green MD for several months now and have been in the sideboard since the deck's inception.

Not that old is a bad thing. But it feels like the pros and cons have already been covered in the thread ad nauseum.

And as you mentioned, Leyline isn't great game one as you don't know what you're facing and thus whether you want to mulligan to draw into it or if it's a matchup where not playing Leyline is actually better as it gets your Goyf that much bigger.

Game 2-3, Leyline is already in the board.

Yes, Peedle is slightly better by dealing with Survival and Top permanently. But Seal still deals with them. And also a ton of other stuff that Peedle doesn't. But that's already been discussed so I guess there's no need to retread old ground.

Also, you brought up the survival match dozens of times in the Eva Green thread as well. Is Survival really such a popular deck where you play? I rarely see survival decks here.

[jazzykat]

That was a tight and useful article.

I am still not sure about the white splash because at least on workstation I often have either a goyf or a vindicate sitting in my hand uncastable.

As to reanimate, the card is a house and I fully endorse it as a 1 or 2 of. The amount of times it has won me the game far outweighs the amount of times that I couldn't cast it.

Not only do you get to bring back a countered dude for 1 mana, it gives you 2 plays on turn 3 without a dark ritual.

The only place it is trash is vs. burn as they are going at your head and losing more life isn't really fun.

Jitte, has been less than useful in my testing with 3 colors but again it would be good against burn and what you guys have pointed out. Warmth is where it's at with the white splash though.

I like the 2 colors because it has more consistency with colors and manabase overall. I have had a heck of a time being Uber aggressive with 3 colors, that said when it works the opponent almost never wins...Vindicate is too damn powerful and flexible almost always rocking that last land, or taking out their blocker.

IMO EVA green is 1 card away from being nearly unstoppable and that card would be either green or black and sit in the seal (and perhaps a reanimate's if its busted enough) spot.

Has anyone considered putting in Thorn of Amethyst in the Seal spot? We play a lot of dudes, and it provides a strong compliment to our land disruption strategy against almost all decks.

[SuckerPunch]

I like the 2 colors because it has more consistency with colors and manabase overall. I have had a heck of a time being Uber aggressive with 3 colors, that said when it works the opponent almost never wins...Vindicate is too damn powerful and flexible almost always rocking that last land, or taking out their blocker.

IMO EVA green is 1 card away from being nearly unstoppable and that card would be either green or black and sit in the seal (and perhaps a reanimate's if its busted enough) spot.

I don't think Seal is a bad card by any means. It's a fantastic card. There just seem to be cards that are more versatile, that also let you kill opposing goyfs (putrefy) and synergize better with Reanimate. Vindicate is clearly the most versatile, letting you blow up that last land, enchantments, goyfs, and even planeswalkers! (that actually ended up being relevent for me against garruk).

But if you want to stick with two colors, have you given any thought to playing 3 Putrefy. Perhaps that's the "1 card away" you were looking for.

It seems to be more versatile than Seal, gives you more ways to kill creatures, lets you cut down to 3 Snuff Out to make room for the second Reanimate, and has more synergy with Reanimate (Putrefy/Vindicate your opponents Goyf and then Reanimate it on your side).

If you don't care about artifacts (crucible, top, jitte, chrome mox etc), 2 smother and that 4th Snuff Out is another option. Essentially, you'll playing Reanimates and additional removal in the Seal slot. But having an out against problem artifacts seems important.

[electrolyze]

Good article, i really like both of them as an eva green player.

I'm really going to test that maindeck leyline list, because i see loam, ichorid, storm combo very, very often in my meta. Seems like a good call for such meta.

I really like reanimate in this deck too, but I cant find another more slot than one in the main(cutting shade, and i dont like putrefy after testing so snuff out is not an option). So I was thinking to cut a plague or an choke to put in the 2th reanimate in it. It can really win you games in some mu's(Especially aggro, but against aggro/control hes really good too). Against aggro you can board than -4sinkhole and +3 jitte and +1 reanimate, just an example.

Thanks for the article, it is really helpfull to read before you go to a tourney or something, just for knowing how you have to play some mu's and board against them and stuff like that.


Greetz, Electrolyze

[Sek'Kuar]

Im not sure if i agree with the addition of white into the deck, but I am willing to try it. As to the article, I thought it was well written. Even though it was list intensive, I find that the lists help me visualize the evolution of the deck and the matchups. Keep up the good work!