[Brainstorming] Lich's Mirror

[Moczoc]

Lich's Mirror
:5:
Artifact
Mythic
If you would lose the game, instead shuffle your hand, your graveyard and all permanents you own into your library, then draw seven cards and your life total becomes 20.


I think this card twists the rules so much that it deserves its own thread. There has to be some way to break it. It's basically a draw 7, gain 20 life for 5 that doesn't even require colored mana!

Some first ideas from the preview thread:

- Necrologia
- Final Fortune: Maybe in a burn deck to refill hand an then win with Cave-in and Fireblasts?
- Wall of Blood + Fling
- the Parallax Enchantments
- Restore Balance and other Suspend cards
- Taniwha and other Phasing cards
- the Pacts: probably in a storm combo deck, that doesn't rely on permanents anyway


more/better ideas?

[Anusien]

If you permanently control permanents an opponent ones (say, because of Dominate or Hunted creatures), you will keep them post Tomb. If an opponent controls permanents you own (because of Hunted creatures or Donate), they will not keep them.

[rufus]

Since it's a combination redraw/recycle card, it could work as part of a demented doomsday stack.

[Carabas]

Cards of interest:
Blood Celebrant: 1 black mana gets you 1 mana of any color and as many game-losses as you desire. 1 turn faster than WoB

Ghostway: Build a nontoken army, then send it away while you lose.

Teferi's Realm: You'd need creatures with phasing, and the two-blue is somewhat limiting, but it's a turn faster than ghostway.

Anything with Champion: Allows a more tribal aggro theme, with acceleration into the mirror.

EDIT: On a side note, can you respond to the replacement effect? It would be great fun if you could phase out the tomb or flickerwisp it in response to its activation, for continued use turn after turn.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Wall of Blood + Fling


I laughed. That finally would do something besides suck....wait :rolleyes:

In vintage: Channel + this equals 15 generic mana for...something.

This + Necropotence/Yawgmoth's Bargain = draw 1/2 your deck -- Possibly storm...?

This plus Phage...no, no that's wrong. Holy casual!

It flips for 5 on CB to counter FoW? Honestly that's the only application I can see for it in legacy...

Combos with Platinum Angel to create a double win-more situation. I swear you will never lose, especially with a set of Kaldra equipment pasted on your Angel...:rolleyes:

Or just play it with any Lich-like card...Like nourishing Lich.dec

[Peter_Rotten]

I'm sorry to tell you, but GearBear and I already broke the card in the Adept Lounge.


Or you could use this thing called the Stack and cast One With Nothing, respond by killing yourself with Wall of Blood triggering Lich's Mirror, Lich's Mirror resolves removing ORing, ORing's trigger resolves returning The Cheese Stands Alone. Finally OWNothing resolves and you discard your new hand. Win during your next upkeep.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Broken involves six, five, three, three, and one mana and five cards?

[Nihil Credo]

Broken involves six, five, three, three, and one mana and five cards?
I know of no other definition.

[DeathwingZERO]

In a strange twist of fate, what happens when this triggered ability resolves and you have an Illusions of Grandeur or Lich of some kind on the opponent's side of the table, say via Donate?

Does this mean you win upon resolution of the trigger?

[rufus]

In a strange twist of fate, what happens when this triggered ability resolves and you have an Illusions of Grandeur or Lich of some kind on the opponent's side of the table, say via Donate?

Does this mean you win upon resolution of the trigger?

There you go, get Lich & Lich's Mirror into play and then Donate.

[xsockmonkeyx]

In vintage: Channel + this equals 34 generic mana for...something.

fixt.

hmmmm... Lotus, Channel, Mirror, lose, reset, Mirror, Hurricane for 29.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

If you Doomsday for a Mirror, Channel, and other stuff that can win you the game, you can chain them a few times by redrawing it with your tiny library. You just need no more then two card in hand or permanents to go infinite. Throw in as many Spellbombs as needed, and you can power though those extra cards to get the Mirror every time.

[DeathwingZERO]

There you go, get Lich & Lich's Mirror into play and then Donate.

Actually, I looked up Lich, and if it swaps sides, you lose as a State-based effect for being @ 0 life. Can't even gain anything in response. So it only works with Illusions, but it DOES work.

However, Nefarious Lich DOES work as well, as it doesn't put you to 0. So if it swaps sides, and your opponent has nothing in their graveyard and takes damage, they lose. But that has nothing to do with the combo with Lich's Mirror, just that it's capable of swapping sides.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Actually, I looked up Lich, and if it swaps sides, you lose as a State-based effect for being @ 0 life.But Lich's Mirror is a replacement effect. When state based effects are checked, you would shuffle your hand, your graveyard and all permanents you own into your library, then draw seven cards and then your life total would become 20. Then, Lich would trigger upon leaving play and your opponent would lose the game.

[DeathwingZERO]

But Lich's Mirror is a replacement effect. When state based effects are checked, you would shuffle your hand, your graveyard and all permanents you own into your library, then draw seven cards and then your life total would become 20. Then, Lich would trigger upon leaving play and your opponent would lose the game.

Hm, that actually brings up a good question. Does the trigger have time to resolve before SBE's are checked? I assume so, since Lich's ability would be the same as taking lethal damage, you'd still be at 0 or below.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Hm, that actually brings up a good question. Does the trigger have time to resolve before SBE's are checked? I assume so, since Lich's ability would be the same as taking lethal damage, you'd still be at 0 or below.If by 'trigger,' you mean the Mirror's ability, then technically no, because it's not a triggered ability but a replacement. State based effects would be checked, but instead of 'losing' happening, the Mirror thing happens.

[ssilver]

Use lim-dul's vault to stack the top ten cards of your deck as long as the number of cards in your library isn't a multiple of 10? Necropotence to draw your life total in Vintage?

[m03]

Use lim-dul's vault to stack the top ten cards of your deck [/B]as long as the number of cards in your library isn't a multiple of 10?



If you would lose the game, instead shuffle your hand, your graveyard and all permanents you own into your library, then draw seven cards and your life total becomes 20.

Doesn't work.

EDIT: Nevermind on the second thing.

[Dark_Cynic87]

This is basically the new-age version of Shazrahad (spelling?). A low-power sit-there Shazrahad.

I'm sure something will happen to make it playable. Like stax will sit there with it and hit reset after losing, and redo it after they have run their opponent out of counters and disruption...Eh? Possible?

Pce,

--DC

[Aggro_zombies]

I'm sorry to tell you, but GearBear and I already broke the card in the Adept Lounge.
Actually, you'd have to use Barren Glory to make this Legacy legal. Still, that deck might even be more broken than Nourishing Lich, so I think I'll proxy it up and test it.

[arsenalpow]

so are we trying to break lich's mirror or barren glory now lol?

End of your opponents turn:
Academy rector on board+ kaervek's spite = barren glory win during next upkeep.

[Peter_Rotten]

Actually, you'd have to use Barren Glory to make this Legacy legal. Still, that deck might even be more broken than Nourishing Lich, so I think I'll proxy it up and test it.

Sorry it doesn't work with Barren Glory because of its most recent errata. Only The Cheese Stands Alone works.

[Moczoc]

We can stop thinking about Channel and Necropotence because it is, and will be, banned for a very long time in Legacy.

Afaik the "life becomes 20" also counts as life-gain for the lich entchanments if you were at 0, that would be an interesting tech to draw 27 cards :laugh: if you can manage to work this (Oblivion Ring?)

[Aggro_zombies]

Sorry it doesn't work with Barren Glory because of its most recent errata. Only The Cheese Stands Alone works.
Oh, I haven't been keeping up with that lately. Thanks for telling me before I took this to a tournament, only to realize it didn't work...

[m03]

We can stop thinking about Channel and Necropotence because it is, and will be, banned for a very long time in Legacy.

Some of us play other formats.



Afaik the "life becomes 20" also counts as life-gain for the lich entchanments if you were at 0, that would be an interesting tech to draw 27 cards :laugh: if you can manage to work this (Oblivion Ring?)

The current errata for Lich says this:


When Lich leaves play, you lose the game.

So O'Ringing Lich would cause you to lose the game immediately.

[rufus]

So O'Ringing Lich would cause you to lose the game immediately.

Normally, when Lich leaves play, the 0 life state-based death condition goes into effect before the triggerred event, so you'd need to have some other way of dodging on of the two in order to make that work.

It could work with Nefarious Lich, since that doesn't put the player at zero life.

[Weekend Daddy]

here's a gee-whiz question. I'm thinking of getting back into the game and this card is just absolutely nuts, I'd love to use it in a deck.

If shared fate is in play, and my opponent has Lich's Mirror out. When they go down to 0. How would it work?

Do they shuffle all cards that they would own in their deck? What about cards that they have in play that are technically mine. Would they just go to my graveyard?

[wolfstorm]

I'm sorry to tell you, but GearBear and I already broke the card in the Adept Lounge.

Who would of thought combining a ton of bad cards with oblivion ring would win you the game during your next upkeep. I might have to make this deck.

[Mordel]

Step one- Chrome mox/Diamond and land--->final fortune(awkward pause waiting for fow)

Step two- land, ritual out lich's mirror

Step three- gain twenty life and start the game over on your end with forty life and puzzle your opponent into concession

I'll test it and let everyone know.

[Nihil Credo]

Step one- Chrome mox/Diamond and land--->final fortune(awkward pause waiting for fow)

Step two- land, ritual out lich's mirror

Step three- gain twenty life and start the game over on your end with forty life and puzzle your opponent into concession

I'll test it and let everyone know.
1) RTFC
2) FoW happens on step two

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Greater Gargadon?

[TrialByFire]

Me and a couple of my friends were actually brainstorming the Channel +Lich idea for Vintage. Pretty much if you resolve Channel you win (it's very hard to fizzle, out of about 100 test games I fizzled twice), but if they counter it or turn 1 Duress it out of your hand or something you almost always lose. In the end we decided Long and ANT were both better. But it was hella fun to play. Sadly Channel is not legal because it would probably be legitimate with 4 copies

[Mordel]

Doesn't barren glory require an empty hand too?

People seem to be ignoring that part of the requirement for win.

[evilchen]

do suicide with ad nauseam and continue to use nauseam after mirror triggered?? does it work? oO

[Nihil Credo]

do suicide with ad nauseam and continue to use nauseam after mirror triggered?? does it work? oO

Capitalisation, please.

Yes, but it kind of defeats the purpose of Ad Nauseam since, when Mirror activates (it's not a trigger), you lose all the cards you just Nauseated - although you do get to continue resolving Ad Nauseam from 20 life. So Mirror in this situation becomes basically a Blessed Wind.

[luma]

Yes, but it kind of defeats the purpose of Ad Nauseam since, when Mirror activates (it's not a trigger), you lose all the cards you just Nauseated - although you do get to continue resolving Ad Nauseam from 20 life. So Mirror in this situation becomes basically a Blessed Wind.

But Mirror doesn't activate until SBEs are checked, after you finish resolving Ad Nauseam.

[Nihil Credo]

But Mirror doesn't activate until SBEs are checked, after you finish resolving Ad Nauseam.
Right, I was confused - it checks for game loss, not 0 life. So it's a nombo.

[evilchen]

hm..
What does nombo mean?

[Nihil Credo]

Non-combo.

[KillemallCFH]

Not Combo = Nombo

[evilchen]

Damn.. ><
Ok nevermind. It was just a quick thought anyways.