New to Legacy - need some advice on decks / cards to get first

[ruds]

Hi All, i'm starting to get into Legacy and I just want some advice into what decks you think I should start with. I started playing Magic around 1.5 years ago but in that time I have been buying into Standard and Extended very heavily.

I currently have the following extended decks: Affinity, BG Rock, BG Death Cloud, UG Tron, UW Tron, Doran, Mono U / UB Fae ,Next Level Blue / Chase Rare Control.

So I have a fair chunk of Standard and Extended staples. Standard is getting expensive and so i'm getting interested in eternal formats.

The Legacy decks I definitely want to make:

> The Rock

The Legacy decks i'm interested in:

> Mono Blue Control
> UWx Landstill
> UGw Threshold
> UGb Threshold

Based on having a skim through those decks I made the following list of cards that I need:

4 x Brainstorm [Mercadian Masques]
4 x Force of Will
4 x Swords to Plowshares [Ice Age]
4 x Mishra's Factory
4 x Wasteland
3 x Diabolic Edict [Tempest]
2-4 x Stifle
1-2 x Nantuko Monastery
4 x Meddling Mage
4 x Nimble Mongoose
4 x Daze
3 x Morphling
1 x Meloku, The Clouded Mirror
1 x Umezawa's Jitte
3 x Back to Basics
3 x Propaganda
3 x Powder Keg
4 x Fact or Fiction
4 x Living Wish
1 x Genesis
2-3 x Volrath's Stronghold
2 x Duress [USG]
2-3 x Voidslime
1-2 x Putrefy
4 x Wall of Blossoms
4 x Yavimaya Elder
2 x Tombstalker
4 x Werebear

4 x Bayou
4 x Savannah
4 x Scrubland
4 x Tropical Island
4 x Tundra
4 x Underground Sea

I found I have a fair amount of the cards already and the big money cards are just going to be the lands. I think I will proxy the lands first (the duals) and get them last.

So I'm just wondering, from my list is there anything I need to add or subtract? And also, what's generally the best way about going about getting the cards? Should I just start with all the uncommons first then hit the rares or should I just focus on a specific deck first?

[Deep6er]

It would be best to pick a deck that will win (that part's extremely important), and then use store credit at your local tournament (if you have one) to slowly accumulate the cards for other decks.

I'd recommend playing something that is amazingly good against your metagame, or just in general.

Threshold is the best deck in the format, and Ichorid is generally a good metagame choice. The EPIC Storm is also a solid pick. I'd recommend my deck (It's the Fear), but I don't know about that one because it's kind of expensive and will require as much playing as Threshold to make sure that you get it right.

Belcher's a decent choice if there's few Force of Wills in your metagame too.

[b4r0n]

Welcome to Legacy!

I'd also suggest first focusing on a specific deck, then expanding your collection so you can play other decks. Personally, I'd suggest picking up Threshold or Landstill, as both of those decks are not only good, but contain Legacy staples that you can use in other decks (Brainstorm, Force of Will, Swords to Plowshares). Also, it's basically a guarantee that blue decks will always be very powerful in Legacy, so your deck won't suddenly be invalidated if hate picks up (unlike storm combo or Ichorid).

Although they're expensive, duals are really important. But if you pick up a set of Tropical Islands, you're getting close to being able to play U/G Tempo Thresh. Another set of duals, and you're playing U/G/w Thresh. Add another, and you're ready to play Landstill or It's The Fear. On the bright side though, if you've played Extended, then you don't need to shell out for Goyfs or fetchlands!

[Obfuscate Freely]

I'd recommend you start off with 5c Threshold, instead of UGW or UGB. I happen to believe that it is the strongest build of Threshold, but the manabase is less expensive to put together, anyway:

4x City of Brass
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island

Since you already have Tarmogoyfs and Thoughtseizes, completing 5c Threshold gets you a lot of bang for your buck. Once you do, as Deep6er said, you can start subsidizing your Legacy collection by winning tournaments.

[ruds]

Thanks for the replies guys

I think I will start with a Rock deck (only need some Bayou, Volrath's Stronghold etc) then move onto a Threshold deck. I don't intend on playing in tournaments just casually with some friends. May seem a bit strange but I just like playing with powerful decks without the competitive side of the game.

I am going to my local store later today (I live in Sydney Australia btw) to pick up some of the commons / uncommons for threshold variants. The cards that seem to have the most overlap:

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Predict
3 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares

Does that list seem ok as a start? I hate having excess cards (cards that I don't use in any decks) so I like to be very sure that I will be using what I buy..

[psu42]

4x Brainstorm [FNM]
4 x Force of Will
4 x Swords to Plowshares [Beta or FNM promos]
4 x Mishra's Factory [Judge Promo]
4 x Wasteland [Judge Promo]
3 x Diabolic Edict
2-4 x Stifle
1-2 x Nantuko Monastery
4 x Meddling Mage [Judge Promo]
4 x Nimble Mongoose
4 x Daze
3 x Morphling
1 x Meloku, The Clouded Mirror
1 x Umezawa's Jitte
3 x Back to Basics
3 x Propaganda
3 x Powder Keg
4 x Fact or Fiction
4 x Living Wish
1 x Genesis
2-3 x Volrath's Stronghold
2 x Duress [USG]
2-3 x Voidslime
1-2 x Putrefy
4 x Wall of Blossoms
4 x Yavimaya Elder
2 x Tombstalker
4 x Werebear

4 x Bayou [All Beta Duals]
4 x Savannah
4 x Scrubland
4 x Tropical Island
4 x Tundra
4 x Underground Sea

-Pimping is the way to go...but seriously, if you are getting into the format, get duals now. Their value only goes up.

[JACO]

Mono blue kind of sucks, so I wouldn't waste your time getting stuff like Back to Basics, Morphling, and Propaganda. It sounds like you have some playables based on your Extended staples, so focus first on staples you can use across multiple decks, such as:
Duals
Fetches
Force of Wills
Brainstorms
Wastelands
Threshold stuff
Duresses
Deeds
etc.

After you get the basics down, narrow down which deck you really want to play first to start, and then pick up the random stuff that only goes in that deck (like Putrefy, AEther Vial, Nantuko Monastery, etc.). You can also try to port a lot of stuff from Extended over, like Affinity, AggroLoam, Faeries, etc.

I've got tons of duals and staples and stuff availalable here:
http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/069356.html

[Barsoom]

Mono blue kind of sucks[/url]

This is false like we will live forever... maybe play with a deck before saying shitty lies like this; if you know how to play it, MUC can fight against almost everything. Plus, it's a wonderful deck if you have a controllish playstyle.

[Forbiddian]

The problem is that he's just getting into Legacy and MUC is probably the deck that requires the most knowledge of the metagame/all the possible decks and all their strategies vs. you.

[ruds]

I would love to pimp my decks but I just can't spend that much! I do like looking at all the pimp threads though.

I have started to get most of the threshold staples (stifle, mongoose, brainstorm etc) and am saving up for the dual lands and FoW. I am just getting the revised duals.

I am set on MUC just because I don't need that many cards for it and they aren't too expensive. I just whave a few questions:

1. Meddling Mage - how much is it worth? Will it drop once it rotates out of extended?
2. Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills - do I need them? I already have sets of Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand and Windswept Heath. I am going to make MUC, Rock, UG Thresh, UGW Thresh, UGB Thresh, UGBW Thresh, UW Landstill varients.
3. How much should the following in revised cost in USD?:

Bayou
Savannah
Scrubland
Tropical Island
Tundra
Underground Sea

I have got a couple of offers for Tropical Island at approx. $30US which seems quite reasonable.

4. Where do you guys get the majority of your cards from? I am planning on getting FoW from my local store (approx. $25USD there) but the dual lands are way too expensive. I am hesistant to buy off ebay (first because of the conversion rate to AUD) and people normally don't offer insurance. So where should I get them! I will be in Singapore later this year and I know the local store has them so I may just wait until then.

Also Jaco, do you offer some kind of "insurance" if I bought a heap of cards off you?

Edit: Jaco just reading your list of cards, will look at insurance in more detail

BTW, I love stifle, what an awesome card, it hits so many things!

[Forbiddian]

Trop @ 30 is a bit high. I see them sometimes for 20-25. Depends a lot of the edition (get revised, obviously) and the condition. I don't mind playing with cards that have serious scuffage, so I can sometimes find even the dreaded blue duals for like 15.


Bayou - 18
Savannah - 20
Scrubland - 18
Tropical Island - 30
Tundra - 30
Underground Sea - 35

These are about the going rate for cards in NM condition from Revised. Knock off a few bucks for scratches.



Meddling Mage is quite cheap, maybe 2-3 dollars each. The price I doubt will drop post-ext rotation because it already dropped when Pithing Needle got printed.

You only need Mires and Foothills if the deck requires them, obviously. If the deck requires them, they're usually essential. I only see Foothills in Tarmosligh and Mires in black-dependent decks. It looks like you're not going to run much R or B, so I wouldn't worry about it.



But anyway, go to www.ebay.com. Regardless of the problems that you have with shipping or your paranoia. The mailing service is really good even sans ensurance. I haven't had any problems there and you can save at least 20% on everything you want to buy (not to mention feel better about helping the secondary magic market, ensuring that you can play MTG for years to come).

You can get 4x FoW at 20 each in EX+ condition, for example.

If you're afraid to ebay, though (a lot of people are, maybe it's worth the 25% price markup to ensure your stuff gets here instead of take the <1% chance that something goes wrong), then the other places to buy cards are also pretty much out, like cardshark or whatever. Usually, though, if you talk to the ebay person, they'll accept higher shipping ensurance if you're willing to pay a few extra bucks.

[mercenarybdu]

Dual Lands
Fetchlands
Factories
Force of Wills
Brainstorms
Pitch Cards
whatever you are going to build

[Aethan]

Can someone link a 5c Thresh thread? I can only see UGw, UGr, and UGb in the DTB forum and I've done a search for threads (didn't dig through individual posts).

[Nihil Credo]

I think 5C is discussed in the UGb thread.

[Mirrislegend]

I'm also working on putting more money into my collection. Time to get out of budget deck range. Do I go after Fetches or Duals first?

[Nihil Credo]

First some fetches, then a single dual of each type, then the rest.

[The_Red_Panda]

Be sure to buy the blue-based fetches first. I made the mistake of picking up windsweapt heaths over Polluted deltas, and I still regret it. To this day they're sitting in my Astral Slide deck fixing the mana for something that never sees tournament play. If I were you I'd go for the U/W fetches first, as in my experience they're significantly cheaper than the U/B ones. (Not that I know why). After that, get duals as you see fit.

[Maagler]

You might want to wait a year for the fetches to rotate out of extended, I am pretty sure they will drop when they leave.

[Mirrislegend]

Oh snap. Good point. Thanks.

[Wiw]

Force of Will is probably the most important card in legacy if you're making any blue deck. Brainstorm as well, but that's only like a four dollar investment for a playset.

After that legacy is a format all about the lands, like the duals and the onslaught fetches, and wasteland.
Once you've obtained those cards legacy isn't more expensive than type II used to be. Most of the staples are cheap, cards that were like 35-50 dollars at their peak (Ie, Intuition and Survival of the Fittest) are typically less than 20 dollars now and still make some of the strongest decks in legacy. Provided, tarmogoyf is becoming very common in legacy decks these days and you may need to invest in that bastard as well, especially if you intend to play some sort of counter-aggro deck.

I also have played Mono Blue Control in Legacy. You lose to Ichorid without Propaganda, and Back To Basics and Vedalken Shackles are your main reasons to play that deck. And if you play all of those cards together without fifteen counterspells, you lose to fetchland tendrils. So know your metagame extremely well and mainboard carefully. It is a very difficult deck to master and a lot of your matches will depend on how you sideboard. A lot of decks in legacy these days get instant gratification, and MUC is by no means an auto-pilot deck in this format and making Morphling good will always be a serious fight. I have seen the deck be relevant at several major legacy tournaments in the past three years, it's not dead by any means, though every game you play will have a lot of very tough decisions. There isn't a lot of room to mess up or make bad card choices.
Cards you might sideboard depending on what your meta is like include:
Chalice of the void (against tendrils decks)
Chill (if Burn is plentiful and a serious threat in your format)
Pithing Needle
Hydroblast/blue elemental blast
Hibernation
Spell Snare (also a good card to mainboard depending on your meta)
Arcane Laboratory (against storm combos like Tendrils)
moar Powder Keg
moar Vedalken Shackles
Propaganda (know your meta and decide whether or not to maindeck this)
Repeal
Echoing Truth

And here's my build of the deck, I've had my success with it in the past though legacy in general has changed a lot since those days:

Critters:
x2 Morphling
x4 Ophidian
Counters:
x4 Force of Will
x4 Counterspell
x4 Mana Leak
x3 Force Spike
Draw:
x2 Fact or Fiction
x3 Impulse
x4 Brainstorm
Bombs:
x3 Back to Basics
x2 Vedalken Shackles
x2 Powder Keg
land:
x4 Mishra's Factory
x2 Polluted Delta
x2 Flooded Strand
x15 Island [Portal 2, w/ Hot air balloon in picture]

Side:
x4 Propaganda
x3 Hydroblast
x2 Blue Elemental Blast
x2 Pithing Needle
x2 Tormod's crypt
x2 echoing truth

Atleast, I'm pretty sure that was the exact list. See the thread on MUC in the established decks forum for more ideas, keeping in mind knowing your meta is the only way to have success with this deck.

[Happy Gilmore]

I don't even need to read what has already been posted.

Always always always get a playset of fetchlands first. Then go from there.
The commons and majority of Uncommons are easy to get.

Your next step is:

4x FoW
4x Goyf
4x Thoughtseize
4x Pernicious Deeds

Followed by Duals

Basically if you can make Threshold your well on your way to being able to build most decks.

[Happy Gilmore]

You might want to wait a year for the fetches to rotate out of extended, I am pretty sure they will drop when they leave.


They are not rotating out, they specifically kept Onslaught block in for that purpose. And besides, I still think they will go down I seem them being reprinted in 11th.

[Forbiddian]

Uhm, buying certain cards just randomly is really stupid, even if they're good.

FoW and Goyf are cool and in most decks, but you should just download Magic Workstation and figure out which decks you want to play and then collect the cards for that deck. You might not need to spend money on certain duals or fetches or even forces or goyfs depending on your preference.

Unless your budget is like <250 dollars AND you want to play a different deck every week, it's probably better to just get a single deck that's strong and versatile and then expand from there. Make sure you buy playsets of the strong sideboard cards (especially if they're cheap) so that you can metagame your deck vs. anything. Control or Aggro Control is usually better at standing up in any metagame because they have more open slots than combo and more tutors and open land to find and cast hate than aggro.


No matter how many duals, thoughtseizes, goyfs, and forces you have, your deck will be really shitty without the support of Standstills, Dazes, Force Spikes, etc.

I'd rather spend 300 and have a strong deck than spend 500 and have the chase rares to build a deck, but none of the basics.



I have the entire land base and playsets of all the chase rares to play Welder Survival, just sitting in my box. However, I'm like 100 bucks short of actually being able to play the deck because I'm missing key pieces like Squee, Quirion Ranger, Platinum Angel, a few birds, and Sundering Titan. I'm closer than someone without the ridiculous dual land requirements (like 4x Taiga, 1x of every other green dual and 10 fetchlands), but for all that it'll still cost me $100 to finish building the deck.

Having all the duals, fetches, and chase rares is nice, but I'd look to get my hands on a deck (hopefully one with some crossover) before I tried to acquire a playset of every dual.

[kilukru]

I would advise going like i went, dont be in a hurry!

Built yourself some cheap deck that are still competitive and fun to play ( I went with affinity and pox), then start looking for for discount staple, youll be amaze at what can occasionnaly get quite cheap, I got 4 Dreagnought at 5$ a pop, 4 LED at 6$ each, got 2 playset of fetch for less than 10$ each and many more. I now can run Dreadstill (U/r) , belcher and spring tide and the only card I payed full price where the volcanic island, and I only needed 2 for dreadstill.

Or aim for a deck and build that deck, dont chase card because they are good, chase them because the fit in your plan, and better have a bad plan than no plan at all.

[TheLion]

4. Where do you guys get the majority of your cards from?


Trade for them. Read this article (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?id=5551) and turn you Pearl Dragons into Bayous, too.
It's a long way to go, but it works.

@Forbiddian: Show me the place, where you get Meddling Mages for 2$.

If you are playing The Rock (which comes with very much versions), most expensive cards are the Deeds and the Bayous/Fetchlands. If you play it heavy controlish, I'd even say, you don't want to run Goyfs. (but you have them anyway).
I run my Rock version even without Fetchlands, because I dont need much mana fixing (it is only BG), I don't need shuffle effects and I don't need land thinning (in a control deck you are happy with every land you draw). It works for me. Not every deck needs Fetchlands (look at WR Rifter, XXX Stompy, ...).

[ruds]

I know i'm "necro"-ing this thread but I have a reason - since my last posts (long time ago I know; i'm more of a reader than a poster) I have acquired most of the legacy staples for the following decks:

1. Mono Blue Control
2. Rock Varients, EvaGreen
3. Landstill Varients
4. Threshold Varients
5. Countertop Varients
6. Merfolk
7. Affinity
8. Dreadstill

Now I am moving on to getting the legacy SB staples which I wanted to get help with compiling a list. So far on my list I have:

- 4 Blue Elemental Blast
- 3 Red Elemental Blast
- 3 Engineered Plague [Urza's Legacy]
- 3 Hydroblast
- 2 Pyroblast
- 2 Relic of Progenitus
- 2 Tormod's Crypt
- 2 Submerge
- 4 Disrupt [WL]

I already have a few SB staples such as Meddling Mage, Extirpate, Leyline of the Void etc..

Is there anything else that's obvious that I have missed? I haven't been playing magic much (have been busy with studies except for some minor casual play) so I have no idea about the meta around where I play and I think they stopped legacy tournaments anyway.

[Jon Stewart]

I think you should subtract these cards from your list, unless you find them very cheap...



3 x Morphling - not as good anymore
The 3rd Volrath's Stronghold - You'll never need more than 2.
2-3 x Voidslime - not that good
1-2 x Putrefy - Maelstrom Pulse is better


I think you should get a 3rd or 4th Tombstalker.

Edit: Didn't see this thread was necroed.

Ignore what I said above, your sideboard looks good. I would get Propaganda and Back to Basics for the sideboard too if you don't have them already.

[DragoFireheart]

If money is an issue, you can always build something dirt cheap, like Affinity, Burn or maybe Suicide Black.

Since you have Gofys, you could go Goyf Sligh.

LED-less Ichorid isn't too expensive either.

[Otter]

ow I am moving on to getting the legacy SB staples which I wanted to get help with compiling a list. So far on my list I have:

- 4 Blue Elemental Blast
- 3 Red Elemental Blast
- 3 Engineered Plague [Urza's Legacy]
- 3 Hydroblast
- 2 Pyroblast
- 2 Relic of Progenitus
- 2 Tormod's Crypt
- 2 Submerge
- 4 Disrupt [WL]

I already have a few SB staples such as Meddling Mage, Extirpate, Leyline of the Void etc..

Perish is solid against most thresh-style decks and gives you an out against Progenitus. Pithing Needle is all-around nice.

[Tea]

you should get playsets (4 ofs) of your SB-cards.

[MMogg]

If money is an issue, you can always build something dirt cheap, like Affinity, Burn or maybe Suicide Black.

Since you have Gofys, you could go Goyf Sligh.

LED-less Ichorid isn't too expensive either.

Or Zoo. That's Tier 1 and cheap as hell if you already have Goyfs. There is the issue of some duals, but you could get away with shock duals if you have them or only 2 copies of each original.

Anyway, I think duals should be first on your list... a full playset, because their prices just keep going up and they will never be unplayable.

[ruds]

Bit of misunderstanding here; I already have main deck cards of the decks I mentioned in my previous post (I have acquired original duals, fetches FoW etc) - now I am just looking at putting together a fairly comprehensive collection of the staple SB cards for legacy.

Also wanted to ask, how often does a new card (ie a "chase" card) become used in Legacy. In recent times I can only think of Elspeth and possibly Progenitus. I plan on only really playing Legacy and EDH in the future and I hated the aspect of having to constantly to upgrade my deck to stay competitive in standard..

[Nidd]

Thoughtseize has more-or-less become a stable.

[MMogg]

Also wanted to ask, how often does a new card (ie a "chase" card) become used in Legacy. In recent times I can only think of Elspeth and possibly Progenitus. I plan on only really playing Legacy and EDH in the future and I hated the aspect of having to constantly to upgrade my deck to stay competitive in standard..

I would say there are far fewer chase rares and must haves with each set release than needed in Standard. Sometimes, however, older cards become more sought after and valuable because of their interaction with newer cards, like Stifle with Dreadnought or Painter's Servant with Grindstone.

Also, utility cards like Path to Exile and Thoughtseize are usually more applicable to Legacy than cards that are meant to generate entire new deck types.