Ouroboros

[Nihil Credo]

Volrath's Shapeshifter in play.

Skill Borrower as the top card of your graveyard.

Yixlid Jailer as the top card of your library.

Discuss.

[Watcher487]

Well this should be pretty simple, right?

Shapeshifter becomes 1/3 and has the reveal top card of your library it has all of the abilities of top card if it's an artifact or a creature. Top card is Jailer. I picture a 'loop' but since it's not triggered abilities or severely game changing abilites, I'll fall back to the old Humility ruling.

Beat the crap out of the player..... I mean.

Volrath Shapeshifter would end up as a 1/3 with no abilities other than [2] : Choose and discard a card. Yixlid Jailer would stay revealed.

[Anusien]

Well this should be pretty simple, right?
Please don't answer rules questions if you're not sure, or are just guessing.

So Volrath's Shapeshifter/Body Double (for another relevant case) apply in an early layer (Layer 3 or Layer 1, respectively). By the time Yixlid Jailer would remove their abilities, they've already gained the relevant text/become a copy. So you have a Shapeshifter cum Skill Borrower cum Yixlid Jailer. No interaction.

While I'm pretty sure on this, we won't have an Official answer until the cards are officially spoiled and we have a FAQ/CR entry or at least the word from a NetRep. So don't treat this as gospel.

[Mirrislegend]

Question:


Volrath's Shapeshifter in play.

Skill Borrower as the top card of your graveyard.

Yixlid Jailer as the top card of your library.

Discuss.


Answer:
You're one sick SOB, Nihil

EDIT: But props for the thread name.

[Nihil Credo]

I got a fairly comprehensive answer at Salvation.


Volrath's Shapeshifter (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Volrath%27s%20Shapeshifter)'s ability is a text changing effect (even though it acts a lot like a copy effect), so it applies in Layer 3. Yixlid Jailer (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Yixlid%20Jailer)'s ability doesn't apply until layer 5 (right after the borrowed Borrower's ability gives the Jailer ability to the Shapeshifter).

Even if the Jailer did apply first, it removes abilities, not text.

The layering system prevents most of these types of shenanigans. Humility (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Humility) and Opalesence (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Opalesence) aren't bad either.

You're right, I forgot Shapeshifter says "has the text", and not "has the abilities". Whew, Magic is safe.

Out of curiosity, what would happen if Shapeshifter read "has all the abilities of that card"?

Still nothing. Everything is in layer 5 now, with the same timestamp (since there is only one object involved), but each is dependant on the other, because the existence of the effect depends on the previous effect.

The pseudo-shapeshifter would gain the Borrower's abilities, which would in turn give it the Jailer's ability. The Borrower in the graveyard would then lose it's abilties, but that doesn't matter anymore.

This isn't the old days where the game got its panties in a bunch because an animated Humility (http://www.magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Humility) removed it's own ability.

[Anusien]

So what I said, in other words?
(The psuedo-Volrath's Shapeshifter/Yixlid Jailer case isn't quite equivalent to the one you presented here because of what I said; you have this intermediary save state that is already set in stone by the time Layer 5 comes around.)

[Mirrislegend]

... I stand by my answer

[caiomarcos]

EDIT: But props for the thread name.

I second that, got my attention. Although I thought it was a spoiled card from Alara, it would be awesome.

[Illissius]

Wouldn't a simpler version of this be Volrath's Shapeshifter in play; Yixlid Jailer top card in graveyard?

[Skeggi]

Wouldn't a simpler version of this be Volrath's Shapeshifter in play; Yixlid Jailer top card in graveyard?

Yes, that would be a simpler version. That's why he asks about the hard version.