[Deck] Land Ho! - Life from the Loam sleaze [Archive]

Finn

11-02-2005, 06:08 PM

Just about anything of GR or GRb Life from the Loam design seems to be called Land Ho these days. But it is actually just a blanket term for many decks like The Rock describes GB card advantage decks.

"Land Ho" GR aggro-control.

Decklist update: Feb 21, 2006

3 Life from the Loam
4 Roar of the Wurm
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Terravore
2 Regrowth

1 Seismic Assault
4 Firestorm
3 Devastating Dreams
4 Gamble
4 Burning Wish

4 Mox Diamond

1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Quicksand
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Mountain
3 Forest
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Forgotten Cave

SB:
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pithing Needle
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Life from the Loam
1 Hull Breach
1 Shattering Spree
1 Regrowth
2 Pyroclasm

The concept is rather simple, actually. Get to 3 land, cast Seismic Assault. Assault, over and over again with Life from the Loam. This has changed. Seismic Assault is now a secondary win condition. Mongrels, Terravores, and Wurm tokens do a smashing job by themselves.

In practice, however, it is rarely that simple. Since Legacy is such a powerful format, Land Ho, while based on this 2-card combo plays much more of a control role. While at the helm, you will find yourself accumulating cards in the graveyard while keeping the opponent down as much as possible. Eventually, you will be able to cast Seismic Assault if you are going to win. There is no rush.

And then there is the 3-color less creature-oriented focus which plays more like control with a combo finish.
Update 9/4/06 by bane of the living:

4x Wasteland
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Mountain
1x Forest
1x Swamp
3x Taiga
1x Badlands
1x Bayou
4x Forgotten Cave
4x Tranquil Thicket
1x Barren Moor
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Mox Diamond

3x Exploration
3x Life from the Loam
3x Burning Wish
4x Gamble
3x Devastating Dreams

3x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress

3x Wall of Blossoms
3x Eternal Witness

3x Seismic Assualt

Thats my current list. I took some pieces of Sexy Rector's most current one. Id post his but if he wanted it here you'd see it I guess. The biggest difference between our builds is he doesnt play with Exploration. I for one am glued to the card. I wouldnt be playing this deck anymore without it. I also cut Graveshell Scarab because drawing him in your opening hand is almost like taking a mulligan. Hes a great win condition in Confinement, but we have Assault and Barbarian Ring to win with. Assault > all.

Wishboard..
1 Shattering Spree
1 Hullbreach
1 Duress
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cave In
1 Last Rites
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Life from the Loam
1 Devestating Dreams
1 Pyroclasm
1 Innocent Blood
1 Firebolt
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Regrowth
1 Nostolgic Dreams

The Sinister Minister

11-03-2005, 05:40 AM

I may have to check with the rules forum but wouldn't Sylvan Library be the nuts with dredge? Since it says "choose two cards drawn this turn" to put back you can potentially dredge three times in one turn as opposed to once. Casting loam more and speeding up the Seizmic Assault kill considerably.

OMG it's a deck that can abuse the piss out of Nantuko Cultivator lmao.

Finn

11-03-2005, 09:07 AM

Nantucko Cultivator is a card that I would not have ever thought of. Thank you so much. I had to look it up, and I'm going to try it.

As for Sylvan Library, you are quite right. It works just how you think it does. In fact, that was one of reasons I began work on the concept. However, there are some compelling reasons why not to use it:

1. All three draws must be replaced. If you draw even one card from the Library, you are responsible for putting two back or taking life. That means there must be three Life from the Loam in the graveyard. That was possible when I had blue for Intuition, but blue is now out for good. The searching and card drawing elements of the color are being managed better without it.

2. Dredging nine cards per turn is a heckuva lot. It's unsustainable. You either win fast or lose slow that way.

3. It is really overkill card advantage anyway. Getting the three lands each turn really is enough. Getting nine (a.) costs six mana to manage (b.) requires nine lands in the graveyard unless you can pitch them immediately, and (c.) is overkill. As it is I discard lands on some turns.

For all its benefits, I just don't want to use up the spot on Sylvan Library. I would bet that some of the other folks mesing with it will come to the same conclusion.

No_Life_No_Future

11-04-2005, 04:58 AM

how about running mana bond?

Card type: Enchantment

Casting cost: G

Oracle text: At the end of your turn, you may reveal your hand and put all land cards from it into play. If you do, discard your hand.

It seems this card would acclerate the deck extremely well...

Remeber the good old days as a kid where you played with mana dump and big creatures... so do i...

The card would work great with recoup and life from the loam...

Whats with the tranquil grove?

Finn

11-08-2005, 04:04 PM

OK, I have been able to do some playtesting. At a local tournament the deck went

tie vs. Landstill, 1-1
beat Goblins 2-1
beat MBC 2-1
lost to Burn 1-2
beat Landstill 1-0
beat Goblins 2-0

Additionally, I have tried a number of test games on Apprentice. The results are not quite as promising.

2-3 vs. Goblins
0-2 vs. Landstill
0-1 vs. Burn
3-0 vs. various Black builds
2-1 vs. Elves?

As you can see, the important strong matchups went rather poorly. Burn is still a problem, and I do not have any experience with this against either Flame Vault or Solidarity combo.

Since the black came out (including Duress and Nightmare void) the combo and Landstill matchups have gone down a bit, but the Goblins matchup has improved. But strangely, a major reason why I have been having trouble with Goblins (and really any of the losses) has been improper land supply. (heh, in a deck with 30 of them)

I have to believe that this is a glitch, so I am going to be toying with extra basics and asking all of you for help with the Burn and Combo matchups.

The current sideboard looks like this:

4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Ivory Tower
3 Hail Storm
1 Naturalize
3 Null Rod - This keeps Crypts and Furnaces from eating up the graveyard, not to mention hosing Flame Vault and Affinity. Withered Wretch is still a problem. (would Pithing Needle be better?)

bigbear102

11-22-2005, 03:53 PM

Well, I have been working on this deck for a while now, so here it is:

Seismic Loam

4x Yavimaya Elder
4x Wall of Blossoms
3x Eternal Witness

4x Seismic Assault
3x Life from the Loam
3x Burning Wish
3x Regrowth
3x Exploration
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Naturalize
2x Constant Mists

3x Forgotten Cave
4x Tranquil Thicket
4x Taiga
5x Forest
4x Mountain
3x Wasteland
4x Wooded Foothills

SB
1x Regrowth
1x Life from the Loam
1x Pyroclasm
1x Flashfires
1x Tsunami
1x Meltdown
3x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
4x Sirocco

The deck actually runs quite well, and I would suggest that you test it out before making suggestions or bashing it outright, because on paper it does look like a lot of random cards, but they work very well together.

Card Choices

Seismic Assault: The win condition, Land's Edge was tested in it's place for the easier mana cost, but Assault's ability to fry creatures is way too important to overlook.

Life from the Loam: This is the engine, with it you can kill the turn after Assault hits usually, with exploration out, that turn sometimes.

Burning Wish: Loams 4-7. Also gives flexibility to the deck, and lets you win games you shouldn't

Sensei's Top: It sets you up in the early game, and is a free draw mechanism to activate dredge while comboing.

Exploration: This card is kind of out of place, I just threw it in here on a hunch, and it has paid off greatly. Running 27 land makes it amazing.

Constant Mists: Gives you outs against gobbos and other aggro, very good with exploration on the table.

Yavimaya Elder: This is the best land searcher I have found. It not only gets you land, but provides a much needed body in a pinch, that's why it makes the cut over some other sorceries which would provide the same function.

Witness/Regrowth: These give you a very consistent draw engine. With one in your hand, you can begin dredging asap, which lets you find Assault faster. Also very good against control.

Matchups:

Goblins: This match is in your favor. You drop walls and elders, then wish for pyroclasm. By that time you hopefully have drawn mists and can lock them. Early Assault is very good because it turns your hand into free shocks. Usually this game takes a while because you have to clear their board before risking tapping out to kill them. Constant Mists and Burning Wish are your best friends.

Landstill/U based control: This matchup is kind of tricky. You have to play smart, and use your regrowth effects. You do have more outs than they have counters. Play the long game, because usually a wall will hold them off for quite a while. Game 2 sees 5 Blasts, and possibly Sirocco if it's worth it.

Solidarity: Game 1 you race them, which is possible, and hope your burning wish for tsunami/cast tsunami resolves. Game 2 brings in 4 Sirocco and 5 Blasts, this is now heavily in your favor.

Aggro Control: As it goes with all combo, your worst matchup. Whether it be Bw Deadguy, or Gro, this match is not a good one. It is still very winnable via regrowths and wishes for an answer.

The deck is very resilient, and can pull itself out of near unwinnable situations, so proxy it up and test it for a while, and then tell me what you think. I have gotten the deck as far as I can, and am reasonably happy with its performance, but would appreciate any input I could get.

Artowis

11-22-2005, 05:17 PM

See CAL in Extended for general suggestions. Solitary Confinement is a house and would make the translation to this format rather well to wreck Goblins and Gro. The black splash would also seem effective, though that's a bit up for debate.

Oh and have you considered the 4th Burning Wish; since LFTL, Pyroclasm and Hull Breach (Though you currently don't run it) are some of the best cards you have?

Finn

11-22-2005, 08:50 PM

http://mtgthesource.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=28;t=822

There must be an echo in here. I'm not harping on you Bigbear, although you probably should have checked. But I will bet you get a lot of response while I couldn't get these boys to help if i dangled carrots in front of them.

Burning wish is a good call. I am using it in my latest build and I like it.

TheSorcerer

11-27-2005, 05:37 PM

Hoi!

I've been working on a similar deck for a few days now. What I have come up with up until now is a little of to your list, but basicly the same. My deck has a very good matchup against Goblins due to MD Pyroclasm, Slice & Dice and Lightning Rift. However, I got smacked by Solitaire pre SB a few times now. The list currently looks like this:

4x Wooded Foothills
4x Taiga
4x Forgotten Cave
4x Tranquill Thicket
4x Mountain
2x Forest
3x Wasteland

4x Mox Diamond (I'm thinking about replacing this with Exploration)

3x Eternal Witness
3x Life from the Loam
3x Burning Wish

4x Lightning Rift
4x Seismic Assault

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Sparkspray
3x Pyroclasm
3x Slice and Dice

Sideboard
1x Hull Breach
1x Life from the Loam
1x Regrowth
1x Devastating Dreams
1x Pyroclasm
1x Slice and Dice
1x Thoughts of Ruin
4x Xantid Swarm
4x Naturalize

Greets

TheSorcerer

Zilla

11-27-2005, 06:32 PM

Seismic Assault/Life from the Loam threads merged. - Zilla

BryanReilly

12-12-2005, 01:35 PM

Lands-23
4 wooded foothills
8 forest
7 mountains
2 tranquil thickets
2 forgotten caves
Enchantments-4
4 seismic assaults
Instants-8
4 harrows
4 magma jets
Socerys-15
3 pyroclasms
3 wildfires
3 burning wishs
3 life from loam
3 mulch
Creatures-10
4 sakura tribe elder
3 eternal witness
3 fledgling dragon
Total-60
Sideboard-15
3 trinishere
3 pyroblasts
3 red elemenal blasts
3 hull breach
1 pyroclasm
1 life from loam
1 regrowth
Some of my card choices
Harrow I think is pretty good in the deck because it's 2G instant sac a land search for two basic lands put into play untapped. This goes really good with life from loam which allows you to get the sacked land back to your hand. Sakura tribe elder is there to speed up the deck and chump block.
Pyroclasms and wildfire are my mass destruction of creatures plus wildfire destoys four of each players lands.
My spot removal are magma jet which lets me fix my draws.
Eternal witness is there to get back anything that is needed like life from loam or anything else.
My win conditions are seismac assault,with this I can use un needed land to do damage or use land from life from loam, and fledgling dragon which will have threshold more times than not. My draw engine is the four cycling lands, mulch, and life from loam. To slow combo decks and help deal with control decks I have defense grid in the main and trinishere in the sideboard.

My sideboard has 6 wish targets wich can really be anything you want for your meta. Plus the rest of my sideboard is for things like grow. I would like help with this so any suggestions would be appreciated thanks. Once I get some more play testing in I will post results.

Proz0r

12-12-2005, 02:11 PM

Hi, first of all, here's my list:

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
4 Goblin Lore
4 Control of the Court

3 Life from the Loam
3 Devastating Dreams
4 Burning Wish

4 Seismic Assault

4 Mox Diamond
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Forgotten Cave
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland

SB:
1 Life from the Loam
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Hull Breach
1 Cave-In (secret tech vs goblins)
1 Reverent Silence
3 Zuran Orb
3 Pithing Needle (shuts down Wretch and Tormod's Crypt)
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gaea's Blessing

I've been working on it for several weeks now. It uses Nimble Mongoose and Werebear for a fast clock and to provide early blockers. Often you have threshold turn 3 due to Goblin Lore and Control of the Court. These cards also make you find a Life from the Loam early, and they throw lands for Loam in your graveyard.

Devastating Dreams is very very good. Often you play it for 2, making sure that your creatures survive. It's also a very good reset button.

The Burning Wishes are little Demonic Tutors in this deck, they can get Life from the Loam and Devastating Dreams. They can also provide an answer.

Seismic Assault is probably the weakest card in the deck. Its mana cost is just very hard to get, but when this card hits the table, you will win.

The mana base might seem a little weak, 8 cycle lands is alot. However, Mox Diamonds fixes this problem and it also allows you to cast Werebear or Goblin Lore on turn 1. Mox Diamond also survives a Devastating Dreams.

I have had very good results with this deck.

-Proz

martyr

12-12-2005, 06:48 PM

Whatever course this deck takes, I think it'll probably have to include either Mox Diamond or Chrome Mox. The RG aggro build seems to rely on Life from the Loam being active immediately after a Devestating Dreams, and keeping a mana source on the table pretty much unconditionally seems the best way to do this.

Ivory Tower? I was initially skeptical, but I can see that it works rather well with Life from the Loam.

Quick Question: what do you do against Cranial Extraction -> Life from the Loam? Cry?

Finally, four Seismic Assaults seems like an awful lot, especially with 4x Burning Wishes to get Regrowth or whatever. I'd probably cut it to two, but I haven't played the deck at all, so whatever works for you. I think Prozor's list is closer to what I'd play if I decided to try this out, but it still seems like it would have problems with unlucky Goblin Lores and such.

Zilla

12-12-2005, 08:19 PM

Quick Question: what do you do against Cranial Extraction -> Life from the Loam? Cry?
Burning Wish for Life from the Loam.

Finn

12-15-2005, 03:07 PM

Martyr is right about the need for a mox. Every once in a while I will simply lose because my opponent is able to rebuild faster than I can. The way that can happen is if I am forced to cast Devastating Dreams without the ability to cast Life from the Loam on the following turn or two. This is usually the result of discarding lands at random when I don't want to.

I am considering putting Gamble back in. I have not been overly happy with Burning Wish. Mana is usually in short supply since I like to kill/sacrifice it for various purposes.

I actually own both Goblin Lore and Control of the Court so I would love an excuse to use these cards. Proz0r, how is that working out for you?

Proz0r

12-15-2005, 03:47 PM

Hi,
Yea it's right that you need acceleration. If you test my list, you will see that the Mox Diamonds are insane and should NEVER be cut. I also thought about more acceleration, because having 2 mana at your first turn is just insane with this deck. I tried both Exploration and Chrome Mox. You would think that Exploration would fit in nicely, but you don't need it at all because all your cards costs 2 mana. It's nice to put multiple Barbarian Rings into play per turn, but I just think Exploration is too conditional. Chrome Mox, however, gives you a very good boost. But it is only good when you have it in your starting hand. Plus, it gives card disadvantage. If you play them, I think you should play 2.

I tested Gamble as well, I started with 4 of them. I didn't like the carddisadvantage they create, plus I can find Life from the Loam quickly with Wish, Lore and Control. This is why I cut them.

I didn't test Ivory Tower, but it seems like it is inferior to Zuran Orb. Zuran Orb gives you life immediately when you draw it, Ivory Tower doesn't.

You are right, my list might seem a bit roughly made. Every card is included 4 times (or 3 with one in the board). I did this because it is an aggro deck and because lots of cards go to your graveyard with Loam and the random discard. Four Seismic Assault might seem alot, but you can filter them into other cards with Goblin Lore or Control of the Court.

I think that the good thing about my list is, that it doesn't completely rely on Life from the Loam. You can also win by going the aggro way, drop some creatures and then play a Dreams. That's why a Cranial Extraction for Life from the Loam doesn't kill you. Plus, putting an opponent on a clock is a good thing for the deck.

-Proz

Sexy_Rector

12-15-2005, 04:13 PM

Hey Proz,

Your list is only 56 cards .....

Lmk what the other 4 cards are.

Proz0r

12-16-2005, 12:43 PM

Hey,
Yea you're right, I forgot the Wastelands. I just edited the decklist.

-Proz

Bongo

01-23-2006, 06:35 PM

I really like how this deck works.

However, I can't find a streamlined decklist, everybody posted his own version.
So far, the core of this kind of deck seems to be:

-Life from the Loam
-Mox Diamond
-Devastating Dreams

After that the choices I've seen vary wildly, there is everything from Cycling to Threshold.

I think the best approach to improve this deck is to choose the best win-conditions. From what I've seen, Roar of the Wurm seems to be the best because it can be discarded to Dreams or dregded and still be used. It's also a win condition that doesn't require Regrowth-effects.
Seismic Assault is terrific, but the RRR cost is hard to pay for, so I don't know if it's optimal.
Lightning Rift costs too much mana to activate over the course of a game and is a bit on the slow side.
The threshold approach is interesting and might be the way to go.

1. Do you agree with Roar of the Wurm?

2. What do you think about Stormbind and Nantuko Cultivator?

3. Should Seismic Assault be included inspite of its prohibitive casting cost?

Sexy_Rector

01-23-2006, 11:43 PM

As a very avid fan of this deck and it's myriad of incarnations, I have tested, retested, and tested again my version of the deck.

I really like the direction Bongo went with this by addressing fundamental problems that are typically associated with this 'flavor' of deck; however, several more questions [other then the ones listed] needs to be addressed before this deck or those resembling it can be truly effective in the current legacy metagame.

1) Acceleration. Mox Diamond/Exploration or no? Is both to many? I know that there have been several games where you get both in opening hand and it is horrible. Conversely, when you get neither you deck is very, very slow.

2) Color splashes. Eventhough you are running anywhere from 26 - 29 lands, the color splash really hurts the stability of your mana base because of the large presence of cycling lands, wastelands, barbarian rings, and possibly man lands. Splashing a 3rd/4th color makes your more reliant on fetchlands which drastically reduces the number of basic lands which in turns gives goblins and other decks w/ similar mana denial strategies a better game against you. The benefits of the color splash include a more flexible gameplan against your bad matchups, which include sligh/burn [which absolutely owns this deck] and solidarity.
[ See Below ]

3) Proper Kill conditions. I don't think there is any singular kill condition that can do the job on it's own but a variety of different ones. Roar of the Wurm/Terravore have proven to be the most effective but both are vulnearable to StP and give your opponent lots of time to find answers while you dig for a win. Seismic assualt is hot and does the job nicely; however, it's triple red can be a serious strain on the manabase especially if you are attempting to have a third color.

4) Spot control. This deck has a huge problem with spot control and it's only answer is usually found in the form of burning wish for either pyroclasm/hull breach. Meddling mage can really through a wrench in your game plan. The problem here is space. There is not really room to add any spot control without weakening your overall gameplan and synergy.

5) Consistency. This deck, much like landstill, has the potential to post decent win percentages against any deck in the current legacy format. However, this deck cannot beat all of those decks with any possible combinations of sixty cards. This mite seem redundant but it is quite important. For instance, a deck like gro, because of the strength and nature of cards like StP, Counterspells, meddling mage, et cetera gives the deck a certain flexibiltiy and resiliency that is not found with in this deck at the current moment and allows it to post [at the very least] decent percentages against most decks. This deck on the other hand has very large win percentages [ 80 % + ] and very low win percentages [ lower then 20 + ] game 1. What cards should we focus on to make this deck more overall consistent?

6) Optimization. What is the optimized list [excluding colored splashes]?

Possibilities,

Mana Base :

Xx Forests/Mountains
Xx Taigas
Xx Wooded Foothills
Xx Wastelands
Xx Barbarian Ring
Xx Mishara Factory
Xx Cycle Lands

Search/Utility/Engine

Xx Control of the Court/Goblin Lore
Xx Burning Wish
Xx Mulch
Xx Life from the Loam
Xx Wall of Blossoms
Xx Eternal Witness/Regrowth
Xx Yavimaya Elder
Xx Mox Diamond
Xx Exploration

Blow up your opponent stuff

Xx Devastating Dreams
Xx Pillage [meh ... ]
Xx Wildfire

After the world is destroyed, kill your opponent

Xx Roar of the Wurm
Xx Wild Mongrel
Xx Barbarian Ring Recursion
Xx Terravore
Xx Nantuko Cultivator
Xx Seismic Assualt
Xx StormBind

7) Brief Matchup analysis

a) Goblins : You absolutely own this matchup, devastating dreams wrecks them. Their only real threat is aether vial, and that can be dealt with via a burning wish.

b) Solidarity: You can kindof slow them down game 1 with devastating dreams before they go off but your clock is very slow and they have all the time in the world to go off. You will not be winning game 1 that often at all. Many board possibilities, especially with a black splash and a decent creature base.

c) Gro : Again, if you are patient and not 'trigger happy' this is a very favorable matchup (especially with a white/black splash). Once you resolve devastating dreams, they have no outs because you just blew up 1/4 of their lands and killed all their doods. Wasteland recursion in this matchup is a wrecking ball.

d) Sligh : You get owned and bad. You blow up their lands, they fireblast in response. Many, many, many games you are sitting there at 3-5 life rebuilding while your opponent is just waiting to top deck a mountain to kill you.

e) Salvager Combo : This deck is more susceptible to wastelands so it helps out the matchup. Hitting a few of their lands is often more then enough to end the game.

f) Landstill/Wombat : Wombat is a bye against this deck, they have 0 relevant cards in their maindeck and you can always burning wish for flashfires to kick them in the junk again. Landstill is pretty much in the same boat, they have counterspells but you have wasteland recursion for almost a large percentage of their mana base. A resolved crucible can be bad times though.

g) RGSA/Survival variants : You absolutely own all mid ranged aggro decks. They cannot rebuild as quickly as you can, and a resolved devastating dreams for 3/4 is almost always game. ATS can be problematic because of FoW but no one really plays it anymore ....

Bane of the Living

01-25-2006, 06:58 PM

You make it sound like this is a DTB. Its no where near that. Solidarity can still counter devastating dreams, and sorry I dont see you racing them.

Gob's will hurt you alot with wastelands and ports, if theyre making the splash disenchant will constantly find your seismics. You go ahead and burning wish for a way to handle vial, it'll take you 2 turns to do so. Do you know what gobs can do with 2 time walks?

Thresh has alot of counter to fight through and your only chance seems to be recurring wastelands. Meddling mage yes, he's a killer. Bomberman has duress and therapies to rape your ass so I dont see how that match is considered a good one.

Graveyard hate is on the large with Thresh doing well, so your going to cry yourself to sleep playing this deck often.

I really dont think this deck can be a contender unless you at least find room for Solitary Confinement.

Bongo

01-29-2006, 09:08 AM

Excellent post Sexy_Rector.

Few points to consider:

- Mox Diamond yes, Exploration no. Some posts ago it was said that Exploration was lackluster, and I agree. Mox on the other hand is amazing and gives the deck much needed speed.

- Since all of the spells are 2cc or higher, I have included ESG as another accelerator to increase the chances of casting a 2cc spell on the first turn. The reason for using ESG and not some other spell is:

-Chalice of the Void. With 8 accelerators, there is a pretty good chance this will hit the board on the first turn. Since the deck is not affected at all by it (hence the exclusion of Exploration and other 1cc), it offers a quick and excellent tool of disruption. Lots of bad matchups are improved by this card. It stops half of the cards in burn/sligh, negates the whole cantrip engine of Threshold plus Mongoose and stops Lackey/Vial/Fanatic when going first. There are lots of other spells a Chalice for 1 is brutal against.

-I wouldn't splash another color, RG is fine. This is especially true when running Seismic Assault, which is very strong when in play.

Thoughts?

Finn

01-31-2006, 03:58 PM

Wow!

I had honestly given up on this deck. Some observations:

1. The Goblin matchup that *should* be really favorable actually never was for me. I would say just a bit over 50/50. Your primary strategy of denial is hosed by the same cards that keeps Goblins ticking against everyone: Lackey and Vial.
I messed with some spot removal, but was never satisfied. That said, Wild Mongrel, Firestorm, and Devastating Dreams are all exeptionally useful cards in this matchup.

2. It always seemed to be a mana short.

3. Graveyard hate puts you in the scoop phase.

4. I still think it has potential, especially with Mox Diamond and Chalice of the Void. My ideas just took me elsewhere.

Bongo

02-06-2006, 07:32 PM

Well, Eric Darland took something similar to this to a 6th place finish at SCG's Duel for Duals. This definitely has possibilities, seeing as it is not refined at all.

I hope the creator has some wisdom to share here, because there are quite a few uncommon cards in there.

cgooch

02-06-2006, 07:33 PM

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=15641

Placed 7th at StarCity's Duel for the Duals. Seems like Sexy Rector's comments seem justified.

Sexy_Rector

02-06-2006, 10:38 PM

Eric Darland is Sexy_Rector ....

: O

AnwarA101

02-06-2006, 10:54 PM

Eric Darland is Sexy_Rector ....

: O

This is funny!

Bongo

02-07-2006, 08:06 AM

Haha, nice one!

How did Gamble work out for you? What were your most frequent Gamble targets?

Also: No Pyroclasm in the side? I think it's worth at least a single slot.

Anusien

02-07-2006, 12:32 PM

There should be a Devastating Dreams in the side which is strictly better than Pyroclasm.

His Gambles were awful all day. Eric needed new sleeves, and you could literally pick out his Gamble targets even after he shuffled his deck. Literally, if he had good sleeves, his T8 opponent wouldn't have picked out his Devastating Dreams (out of a hand of 7) and then Eric would have gone to the T4 to play Eugene Levin.

He usually went for Devastating Dreams and Wasteland that I saw, although Hull Breach, Burning Wish and Life from the Loam are solid targets as well.

dontbiteitholmes

02-07-2006, 05:18 PM

Eric Darland is Sexy_Rector ....

: O
Eric why no Nostagic Dreams in the side to wish for? Does this card not seem infinite times more nuts then Regrowth as long as you have GG of course.
On a related note go team Cobra Kia. If we both wouldn't have lost our matchs on some BS we would have played each other in the semis which would have been interesting. Also I'm pretty sure all of our swiss losses made it to top 8. What would you have done differently in the deck if you could do it again.

Bongo

02-08-2006, 07:13 AM

Didn't see the exclusion of DD from the sideboard, I automatically assumed he included it. Of course, an additional copy of DD in the sideboard really seems mandatory.

Still, one copy of Pyroclasm in the side can't hurt against Goblins, since you don't want to blow up your lands at certain times.

Btw, how was Grave-Shell Scarab?

Finn

02-08-2006, 10:16 AM

He doesn't want Pyroclasm. He wants Firestorm. He wants 4 of them in the main in fact. The card is insane in this deck. More than anything else, it is what my opponents do not want to see.

As for Nostalgic Dreams, I bet he had it in there at one time and cut it. I, myself, found that when I would use the spell, I would discard a hand full of lands to get - lands. The fact is, that with cycle lands, the draw engine is already so good that you do not need the dreams.

Sexy_Rector

02-08-2006, 01:45 PM

There should of been a devastating dreams in the board but I was so rushed to finish my deck in time for the first round that I forgot it. Also, pyroclasm is not really needed because if you are gonna wish for something to beat goblins you should go and get devastating dreams. It wrecks them a lot harder then just a pyroclasm. Nostalgic dreams should of been in the board but I could not get my hands on one in time before the tournament.

Bane of the Living

02-08-2006, 11:12 PM

Eric what was your hardest match? Share it on here as best as you remember it going. thnx

dontbiteitholmes

02-08-2006, 11:34 PM

Eric what was your hardest match? Share it on here as best as you remember it going. thnx
I can answer this for him. His hardest matchup was Solidarity. For a writeup of this match go look at Gearhart's report.
[edit] Oh here you go...

Round 1: Eric Darland (Sexy Rector) playing "AL"??
Game 1: Eric already knows that he has a terrible matchup against me and more or less just scoops it up this game.

Game 2: I keep a 5 land brainstorm, High Tide hand because I'm way too overconfident. He duresses out the brainstorm and my draw comes up way too slowly for me to win.

Game 3: Let me skip to the part that kicks ass. Eric Devastating Dreams' for four and it resolves while there is a chalice for 1 on the board. I take a little while to rebuild my land while he does meaningless things with life from the loam. Then, once I have four lands in play, eric plays 2 SPELLS! Thus I kill him. My hand was Reset, Reset, Opt, High Tide, Brain Freeze, Remand, and a Flash in the yard. :)

PS. Eric please name your deck before it forever becomes known as "AL" also I'm sure you have the build you "should have played" as do I of my deck. Holla at me for team tech exchange.

Bongo

02-10-2006, 10:41 AM

Taking a hint from sexy rector's list, I splashed black for Cabal Therapy and Grave-Shell Scarab.
The most notable omission: Burning Wish. BWish was excluded because it slowed the deck down by a turn. Against Goblins, Burning Wish on turn 2 is like giving them a free Time Walk.
Gamble costs half as much, fulfills about the same functions as BWish and doesn't bastardize the SB. It's a little shakey, but so far, it's been decent.

24 lands:
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Bloodstained Mire
3x Badlands
3x Taiga
1x Mountain
2x Wasteland
4x Forgotten Cave
3x Tranquil Thicket
2x Barren Moor

27 Spells:
4x Mox Diamond
4x Gamble
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Life from the Loam
4x Devastating Dreams
4x Regrowth
2x Seismic Assault
1x Firestorm

9 Creatures:
3x Wall of Blossoms
3x Wall of Roots
2x Roar of the Wurm
1x Grave-Shell Scarab

What do you think?

Sexy_Rector

02-11-2006, 12:52 PM

Seems like a very solid decklist,

A few observations though,

I would get rid of a regrowth or two, and add an other wasteland to the deck and an other seismic assualt. Onto the manabase. You want to drop a badlands and a taiga, and a basic forest, and a bayou. In order to really get the engine going, you want at least 25 lands, and more never hurts.

Bane of the Living

02-11-2006, 02:17 PM

The only problem I see with that list is because you have no wish board, you have no way to stop needle from naming Seismic Assualt. Instead of adding another try adding 1-2 Lightning Rift. Theyre great in multiples, and cant be needled. It's also cheap, and aludes the triple red cost of assault. While not as good its a nice alternative to 4 assaults!

I do need to ask tho.. Why no Confinement? This deck keeps lock so easily that it seems like a shame to leave it out. Surely it could be played instead of maybe a wall? It surely would have helped in not only Solidarity matches but all combo and all aggro.

Finn

02-12-2006, 12:56 PM

Why no Confinement? That's easy. Extended nonbasic land hosers of consequence = 0. Legacy nonbasic land hosers of consequence = 10 or thereabouts. Four colors is just asking for slow death in a deck with no counterspells. Or maybe it should move on to all five colors to have countermagic. heh

Sexy_Rector

02-12-2006, 02:06 PM

Bane of the Living

02-13-2006, 06:47 PM

Well I'm currently running a 4 color list. I know this seems absurd but I'm really not having problems doing so. Here's the list I've been playing.

4 Tranquil Thicket
2 Forgotten Cave
4 Seculded Steppe
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Mountain
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
3 Mox Diamond

4 Birds of Paridise
3 Academy Rector
1 Graveshell Scarab
1 Squee, Goblin Boob
2 Eternal Witness

4 Life from the Loam
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Sterling Grove
3 Gamble
1 Firestorm
1 Form of the Dragon
1 Seismic Assault
1 Pernicious Deed

SB
3 Roar of the Worm
4 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Disenchant
3 Wasteland
1 Genesis

This list is putting up good numbers for me. Im not playing wastelands since I'm more concerned to get my confinement lock. Playing 4 colors leaves no room for wasteland anyways. I can take out a color to side it in where needed. Form of the dragon can double as a lock piece and kill condition. Anyone who hasnt tried this beast out needs to at least give it a try. It normally comes into play with rector, making for some unfair advantages.

Rector makes for alot of tricks since it can do things like fetch sterling grove and make your confinement untargetable, take that solidarity. Or can swap places for a deed when you have all your mana untapped. I know I lack devestating dreams but I'm purposely trying for a different build.

Dont think 4 color Loam is crap. It's very versatile. Give it a shot.

nub

02-13-2006, 07:24 PM

I was looking through my cards last night to see if I could throw a Loam deck together and came across Summer Bloom. It seems like this card could help recover from a devastating dream more quickly, especially with mox diamond in play. It may end up being too circumstancial and slow for use but it could be worth testing, especially for those considering exploration.

Finn

02-17-2006, 11:59 AM

Summer Bloom is not bad, but I think most folks would agree that Exploration suits the deck better. And Exploration is sorta on the outs, as Mox Diamond fills the role better still.

Bane of the Living

02-17-2006, 02:39 PM

WOW!

What are people thinking about Firestorm? Has anyone else tried it? My results are phenominal with this card in the list. Too bad you do need X targets for X damage. Crazy huh?

Finn

02-17-2006, 03:36 PM

Firestorm, what's that?

edit: updated list 11/28/05

//NAME: Land Ho Updated
4 Roar of the Wurm
4 Werebear
4 Wild Mongrel
2 Terravore
3 Life from the Loam
4 Pillage
3 Devastating Dreams
2 Crop Rotation
4 Burning Wish
3 Firestorm
1 Eternal Witness
2 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Wasteland
1 Barbarian Ring
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Forgotten Cave
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
3 Forest
2 Mountain
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Regrowth
SB: 1 Devastating Dreams
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Lava Blister
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Renewing Touch
SB: 2 Hull Breach

I messed with some spot removal, but was never satisfied. That said, Wild Mongrel, Firestorm, and Devastating Dreams are all exeptionally useful cards in this matchup.

He doesn't want Pyroclasm. He wants Firestorm. He wants 4 of them in the main in fact. The card is insane in this deck. More than anything else, it is what my opponents do not want to see.

So, nah. Never tried Firestorm. I just mentioned it in almost every post.
It's really tiring - you know, being furniture.

kicks_422

02-19-2006, 09:54 PM

I've been following this thread for a while now, and this is the list that I've come up with...

3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Forgotten Cave
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
2 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Mox Diamond

4 Wall of Blossoms/Werebear/Vine Trellis

4 Burning Wish
3 Life from the Loam
3 Devastating Dreams
3 Nostalgic Dreams/Goblin Lore
3 Seismic Assault
4 Roar of the Wurm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Gamble

SB
1 Life from the Loam
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Nostalgic Dreams/Goblin Lore
1 Wreak Havoc - scepter-chant?...
1 Pyroclasm - for small creatures
1 Breath of Darigaaz - for a bit bigger creatures
1 Shatterstorm - maybe Stax...
1 Fireball - if i have excess lands in play..
1 Meltdown - affinity?...
1 Wing Snare - Reanimated Akroma?...
1 Boiling Seas - Solidarity... if it resolves...
1 Flashfires - any white deck...
1 Tranquility - Enchantress?...
1 Threaten - Reanimator?...
1 Hull Breach - great removal...

I'm currently debating about the Werebear/Blossoms/Trellis slot...

Werebear
PRO - 4/4 once Threshold is achieved, mana-producer
CONS - 1/1 early, not a real aggro answer

Wall of Blossoms
PRO - big blocker, draw a card is good to keep hand big for DDreams
CONS - not a mana producer, can't kill anything

Vine Trellis
PRO - big blocker, mana-producer
CONS - can't kill anything

...And the Goblin Lore/Nostalgic Dreams slot...

Goblin Lore
PROS - Digs really deep, threshold early for the Bear
CONS - Risks getting the cards you need in the yard

Nostalgic Dreams
PROS - Gets dredged cards back to your hand
CONS - need to discard cards first

...I've been testing on MWS, but I can't seem to outweigh one option from another.. Help please? :D

Finn

02-22-2006, 12:46 PM

So kicks, how do you like Nostalgiic Dreams? Personally, I did not care for it. I wound up discarding lands and fetching lands back amongst the good stuff. Of course, my builds tend to focus more on the land than the card advantage (making themmore aggor and less combo)

And what about Goblin Lore - Is it any good? It seems to me that with both Gamble and Burning Wish, all the fetch is there. And Goblin Lore is paltry card advantage next to Life from the Loam.

I think I am using that slot for Wild Mongrels. He does an awful lt of things well.

Bane of the Living

02-24-2006, 08:59 PM

Ok I played like 12 games last night against R/G survival, U/G/B Thresh, and something else... Ill get back to you on that. I only lost I think 2 games. Here is the list I've been QUITE happy with.

4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Taiga
1 Plateou
4 Wasteland
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mox Diamond

3 Anurid Brushhopper
4 Wild Mongrel

4 Burning Wish
3 Life from the Loam
3 Devastating Dreams
2 Seismic Assault
3 Roar of the Wurm
3 Gamble
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Squee, Goblin Boob

SB
1 Life from the Loam
1 Roar of the Wurm
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Regrowth
1 Firebolt
1 Gamble
1 Pyroclasm
1 Hull Breach
1 Shattering Spree
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Tormod's Crypt

Im sure there are 2 things you'll notice right off the bat. 3 colors, and maindecked chalice. This decks match against combo is bad. Very bad. I really dont feel like scooping up game one everytime. There are only 3 Gamble in the deck as your 1cc cards. Running 8 cycle lands and 4 Mox's helps ignore your 1cc curve and play the monster that is Chalice for one. Against Thresh Chalice just wins, stopping your opponent from hittin mongrels and wurms with swords is also nice of course. Chalice for 1 really helps out the burn match too. Drawing multiples later usually isnt an issue thanks to dreams. Mongrel was added because the deck does need to race combo, he seems the best way. It also allows you to come back from Devestating Dreams like a pro, having by far, the biggest beast out. Walls are always a nice play turns 1-2. They block all goblins, white weenies, confidant, meddling mage, and mongoose. They were better with Therapies in the deck but I took out black to keep white. Therapy isnt as good without Academy Rector as well. In the end I decided to cut her, mostly because devestating dreams/gamble/loam is just brokenly good and Id rather focus on that aspect. White is still in the deck however. Which brings me to tech nasty #2.

I have Confinement lock in my sideboard. Chalice is no good? Swap it out. The deck gets the 1 white needed to cast confinement everytime I've needed it too. Im playing 2 additional heaths to help that. Running 6 fetch lands also increases the rate of..

Turn 1: mox, fetch, loam.

..which is the way you always want to start the game.

The look on an opponents face when confinement hits the board is pretty much priceless. Opps you brought in needle instead of naturalize?

Im not sure of my numbers as far as some of the card choices go. Part of me wants more Roar's. Yet sometimes they stay in the hand dead. 3 Is probably the way to go since it makes yard hate even better...

This is my favorite deck. Ill update the list as it changes.

SillyMetalGAT

02-25-2006, 12:02 PM

One word: Tabernacle

Bane of the Living

03-22-2006, 09:58 PM

Im thinking of playing this deck at Syracuse in April. I really want to fine tune my build though.

One card Im really debating is the Wall.

Im not so sure I need/want the wall in the deck. Whether its a Wall o Blossoms or Roots. Something I was looking at instead was Anurid Brushhopper. Im still making my white splash for sideboarded Confinements. Brushopper keeps me aggro against combo players, and he's just ridiculously hard to kill. 2-3 sounds good. What does everyone else think about this?

Also..

Im still maindecking Chalice of the Void. Sometimes Gamble turns to crap mid-late game but it still seems worth it. How necessary are people finding Lightning Bolt. If I go with Brushhopper, taking out walls and bolts that may leave me open to aggro much more. Does anyone swear on their life for bolts? Can I do without bolt/firestorm? If I dont play maindeck CotV then what about Nimble Mongoose over Bolt?

SeanConnery

03-26-2006, 07:26 PM

hi! first bane, chalice main is so damn awesome... chalice on 1 always is a thorn in s.o. 's flesh and protects you from gravehate alla crypt and furnace.
I tried your decklist but got confused with the white splash... it sometimes slows me up and I never used armageddon so far.
If you add solitary confinement you still have to draw and not dredge or discard it, so why splash?

Something differnt what about Tinder Wall instead of Wall of Blossoms/Wild Mongrel ?
you could cast a first turn seismic assault and tinder is fast n cheap... but less strong than wall of blossom/wall of roots.
Anyone tried mainboar Scorched Earth?
Maybe the deck's consistence can be advanced if we decrease win conditions and add control... for kill condition:
2 seismic, 2 roars, 1 barbarianring, 4x wishboard, 1 rift(?)

I think one creature kill condition (roar) may be enough because of the loss of creatures through dredg.

control (depends on colourchoice but with RG):
- devasting dreams
- wasteland
- tabernacle at pendrel vale
- maze of ith
- creature removal from seismic, firestorm or wishboard
- wishboard
- scorched earth? (sounds very interesting to me... at least in SB)
... others

some thoughts...
still testing. greez

Finn

03-28-2006, 02:54 PM

Bane, I have some questions...
1. You said you tested Firestorm. Did you not like it? While I am not playing this deck these days, I found Firestorm to be just peachy against aggro. I can't believe that you don't even have it in the sideboard. It was just that good.
2. I really like me some Terravores. Have you tried it? It has just unfair synergy with Wild Mongrel and Life from the Loam.
3. I have almost given up on Maze of Ith. It sux vs. almost all the pertinent matchups. I like both Tabernacle and Quicksand better.
4. I have not tried white splash with Confinement, but I may. Do you side out Roars when Confinement comes in?

Rambo

03-28-2006, 10:45 PM

Bane of the Living

03-29-2006, 06:59 PM

@Rambo
Brawn is a great idea. I had a single Anger in for a bit as a gamble target. Playing a mongrel, pitching my hand and swinging for 6 was great. So were angery wurms. Brawn seems a better idea but Anger was helping improve the Grave Shell Scarab considerably. The bad part is the randomly drawn incarnation when I had no discard outlet for it. Mongrel helps but cant always be counted on. Using Therapy on myself sucks ass.

@Finn
I came to the conclusion that Firestorm was only ever good against goblins. There were many times where I didnt have the correct number of targets for damage unless I targeted myself, ouch! The deck already has good game against goblins, so I would definitly sideboard it in multiples if not for my wish board.

I havent tested the Terravores but he seems alot worse turns 1-3 than Wall of Blossoms. The walls still prove very important, especially in conjuction with Devastating Dreams. Wild Mongrel is my MVP at the moment so I cant pull him. I will get around to testing him but probably not for awhile. He seems to be doing good for you tho?

I havent done testing with too many one of lands. I'd like to but Maze/Quicksand/Tabernacle all take up the all too important land drops. Id consider this landtutor path more if I was playing with Explorations. Which I dont own. To utilize that engine a bit more Crop Rotation seems powerful, turn one crop rotate into maze or tabernacle against gobs seems quite strong, altho a timely wasteland could give you nightmares. I'd be playing with one Tabernacle right now if I owned one but those suckers are so hard to track down.

Yes I was usually siding out Roars for Confinement but if you want to go with that trick I recommend going the otherway around for the "opps now im not a confinement deck" trick. Maindeck Confinement and then sideboard it out. Our opponent goes all in with disenchant effects, saves his counters for the confinement that never rears its head, and loses terribly to Roar. I suppose that needs its own testing.

@SeanConnery
Tinder Wall cant block and survive Nimble Mongoose, its also gone when you get the mana out of it as opposed to Wall of Blossoms that draws a card THEN sticks around. Or Wall of Roots which blocks and give you mana each turn. Turn 1 Seismic Assault isnt something Id really want to do. It gives perfect targets for Needles or early disenchants. I really prefer dropping it when I have lethal or very close to.

................................................................................................

The white splash offered little to the engine of the machine. I wont lie, confinement is disgustingly good. So few decks can handle it. I constantly have people siding in Naturalize/Disenchant. This only happened when they saw my white mana, but it was nice to have 4 dead cards in my opponents deck. While Confinement is the nuts, the deck stays so busy trying to keep it afloat that it cant gain the card advantage off loam.

Sometimes a randomly placed counterspell could stop loam from coming back and screw up the confinement lock. Or someone can drop a Meddling Mage and name LftL. Besides that, winning the game in time is also important. Something Solitary Confinement knows nothing of.

My list is alot closer to Sexy_Rectors now. Therapy is amazing with dredge and gets extra use out of walls, especially against decks where walls are useless. Therapy can clear needle, crypt, meddling mage, vial, or counterspells out of your opponents hand, often clearing the way for game winning Dreams. I dont think Eric is playing Roar anymore and I know he doesnt like Mongrels, so his list puts much more faith into Seismic Assault and Scarab. That scares me alittle too much, and Wild Mongrel is just way too good in a loam deck not to play.

Honestly this deck has alot going for it from splashes to card selections. You can maindeck CotV or side it. You can try Dark Confidant, Darkblast, Enlightened Tutor, and so many more great cards. You could play Living Wish over Burning to get access to great lands or great creatures like Flame Tongue, Baloth, Witness, Viridian Shaman, Goblin Pyromancer. The next card Ill be testing is Sensei's Divining Top.

Still infatuated with this deck. Rock on.

Finn

03-31-2006, 01:41 PM

I came to the conclusion that Firestorm was only ever good against goblins. There were many times where I didnt have the correct number of targets for damage unless I targeted myself, ouch! The deck already has good game against goblins, so I would definitly sideboard it in multiples if not for my wish board.

I havent tested the Terravores but he seems alot worse turns 1-3 than Wall of Blossoms. The walls still prove very important, especially in conjuction with Devastating Dreams. Wild Mongrel is my MVP at the moment so I cant pull him. I will get around to testing him but probably not for awhile. He seems to be doing good for you tho?

It seems to me that we are both approaching the same goal from different angles. You have 6 walls for defense + benefits. I have 2 Terravores and 4 Firestorms pulling roughly the same duty. Where your stuff seems more utility oriented, mine seems more aggression oriented. I had always considered this to be a control design, but the way I have it set up it is particularly aggressive. Games are rarely more than 5 or 6 turns if the deck is performing. I wonder which matchups run better/worse for the two strategies.

Bane of the Living

03-31-2006, 07:32 PM

I noticed that too. To tell the truth I cut Firestorm only because of its terrible use against combo decks and white based control. This deck has a weakness to combo without the black splash. Firestorm did severly improve games against hordes though.

What seem to be your worst match ups? Im having trouble against Rifter because of their Rifts. Duh. Also because of their cycling cards, mostly dragon. They help them find mana post Dreams. I was considering Winter Orb to help against them.

What are your thoughts on Sensei's Divining Top?

Specimen

04-03-2006, 02:48 AM

I have found 1 wish target Haunting Echoes in the board cures some of your Rifter ailments. I understand that probably isn't going to help out with your current g/r version. Perhaps this is even more reason to play GRB version closer to Sexy Rector's og list.

Bane of the Living

04-03-2006, 06:14 PM

I went 3-2 at my weekly tournament Sunday.

First round I played against red Thresh. I know this is one of my stores better Thresh players and I expect a tough match. Things look good for me as we trade counters for spells and I have Loam going. The only problems is I'm a good 4 dredges in with no cycle lands. With no draw engine off my loam dredging it back looses me card advantage, he slowly kills me. Game 2 things look good for me and I get loam wastelock going. He drops a Werebear and gets to Thresh. I see no Devestating Dreams and the bear beats me to death. I wouldve been fine if he didn't play 3 Tormod's Crypts..

Next game is against White Thresh. I play some mid-late game Devestating Dreams and kill him with a very late game Seismic Assault. The next game goes the same.

Next game is against Angel Stompy with a blue splash. Its Tivadar from The Source!

First game starts looking good for him with a Serendib Efreet. He beats me up with it and counters a couple spells. Equips Sword of Fire and Ice. I can't deal with it and die. The next game I dont remember but I won. Third game goes late, things start looking great for me, he's mana screwed. Then he starts coming back with 2 Serendibs and I need to Dreams to wipe his board. We both go to topdeck mode and I get Loam going again. He plays unmorphed angels for a couple turns and I wish for Firebolt to kill them, I Ghastly Demise another then he drops sword and white knight. I wish for Regrowth, get back a Ghastly Demise and I swing with a Mishras Factory for the win. Sorry Tivadar!

Next opponent is one of the better players in the room. He plays a turn one Bird's of Paradise, I forget what he's playing and I make a turn 2 Burning Wish for Cave In. He drops Survival, damn... I get loam going and play Devastating Dreams ftw. He gets a Loxodon Heirarch out but it cant stop a huge mongrel and a wurm. Game two I board in copies 2 and 3 of Darkblast and I kill his birds off. I open game 3 with turn one land, double mox, mongrel, gamble to find lftl. I waste a couple lands with wastelock and hes stuck on one forest for a while. When he starts coming back I dreams him for the win.

Solidarity.. I lost to this deck last week. This time Justin's playing it. (niknight)
Game one we go to turn 4 or 5 and he tries to combo off without High Tide, he fizzles and I win. Games two and three he goes off on turn 4 before Devestating Dreams resolves. I dont make top 4 with a 3-2 record. Bummer.

Props to..
Gamble, for giving me 6/7 great gambles. This tutor is god in this deck.
Mishra's Factory, for recurring mongoose killerz and therapy thrulls.
Devestating Dreams, for winning me EVERY game it resolved in.
Wild Mongrel, for dealing over 50 points of damage over the course of the tournament.
Darkblast, for killing tons of shit and dredging into Roars.

I'd also like to express sorrow over a few dead wish targets.

Combo just seems to be a terrible matchup for this deck. I think I can accept that tho. Duress and Therapy didnt really help against Solidarity and taking them out gives me more toys to play with. I might just add more cards to aggro the deck out. Maybe Ill try to switch to white and use Anurid Brushhoper. Or take out Duress/Therapy for Senseis Divining Top. I often dredged Devestating Dreams or Mongrel off the top of my deck instead of getting them, and often had mana to invest to look at the top 3 cards.

Top sounds like the way to go.

@Specimen Echoes sounds awsome and Ill try it if I stick with the black splash.

I would like to note, there seemed to be NO liability in playing 3 colors. I never had improper color mana needed for a single thing. Not even to cycle a land.

Finn

04-04-2006, 03:27 PM

Bane, I thought you already were playing White instead of Black. If you stay in Black, you really should try out Eternal Witness with Volrath's Stronghold. But I, too gave up on Black as my answer to combo. It seems that the High Tide matchup is a bit hopeless unless you have Chalices.

You don't need to lose to Crypts. Acknowledge that you are beholden to your graveyard and put 4 Pithing Needles in the sideboard.

Also, I don't see what Anurid Brushhopper brings to the deck that can't be accomplished better elsewhere. Do I need to be educated?

Windux

04-05-2006, 03:27 PM

I want to play this Deck at Saturday at a Local Shop Tournament.
The Meta will be 80% gro and 20% Goblins I think.
Don't tell me "Play this instead of ~this~ because it will rock the Meta" I just want to test the Deck ;)

This is my List
// Lands
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Barren Moor
3 Forgotten Cave
1 Badlands
1 Mishra's Factory
2 Taiga
1 Swamp
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Volrath's Stronghold

// Creatures
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
3 Wall of Blossoms
4 Wild Mongrel
1 Eternal Witness

// Spells
2 Seismic Assault
4 Burning Wish
4 Mox Diamond
3 Life from the Loam
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Gamble
2 Roar of the Wurm
3 Devastating Dreams

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Hull Breach
SB: 1 Perish
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Gamble
SB: 1 Roar of the Wurm
SB: 1 Devastating Dreams
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void

What do you think? Can this List turn into a Tournament-Winning List? ;)

Kosmon

04-05-2006, 04:23 PM

What has been the right amount / combination of lands to run for this deck from everyone's testing? I'm seeing anywhere from 25-27 lands and 8-9 cycling lands in these lists. Is 8 cycling lands enough? Is 25 land total enough?

Some of you are using more utility lands, like barbarian ring, maze of ith, volrath's stronghold, mishras factory etc... are these really necessary? I can perhaps see a use for barbarian ring, but isn't that what seismic assault is for? Mishras factory doesn't make sense in this archetype... Windux, perhaps you can explain the reasons for including it in your list.

Also I noticed that in Sexy_Reactor's list, he only ran 3 wastelands and instead opted to run the 9th cycling land (atleast I'm assuming that's the tradeoff he made for only running 3 wastes...), which to me just points at the necessity of always getting a few of these within your first few turns, and that running 8 might not be enough.

Sexy_Rector

04-05-2006, 05:22 PM

Bane of the Living

04-05-2006, 05:36 PM

I havent played the white splash without confinement in tournament. In that version Im playing 3 Brushhoppers and 3 Swords to Plowshares as my white cards. The black version was what I played this Sunday.

Normally no I dont lose to crypts but my Thresh opponent saw 3 of them and 3 is just too many. I dont own any needles at the moment so I had to swallow it all like a big boy.

The list I used looked alot like Windux's list. Very tight. I like the inclusion of Stronghold, has it helped?

I think relying on 3-4 Assaults is a mistake for this archetype. It's the first card needled and triple red can be too hard to get by turn 3 against black decks, when you'd want to drop it asap due to discard.

Brushhopper seems really strong in the games Ive played with him. He's nearly impossible to kill if you have LftL changing your gameplan much more aggro. He's good with dreams because of his 4 ass. Often being the only creature left in play. He's also another discard outlet for Roar. Swords is great removal and this deck needs a good removal card besides dreams. I brought Ghastly Demise in against alot of opponents and stp is only better.

Im still not sure whether I like the black or white splash best. Both are great options for the deck.

@Sideboarded Roar
I dont like having this here, I barely wish for it. But I feel safe with a win condition to wish for, thoughts??

@Kosmon
You can pull off 25 lands if your running enough ways to get LftL (gamble, burning wish) and if you play 4 Diamonds.
3 Wastelands seems to be enough sometimes, I've opted to use a utility land such as Mishras Factory in place of the 4th wasteland. Factory is a recurring kill condition, recurring blocker, and a recurring creature to flashback therapies. Barb ring is often worth inclusion because Assault can be needled. Especially for people not playing Mongrel. I've found Maze of Ith to be very subpar.

Ive done a bit of testing with Top now and Im very pleased. Its amazing with all the fetchlands, making hands with a top, a mox, and 5 lands quite good hands. Its got an emergency dredge ability and saves precious spells on top of your deck to hide from black discard. Top seems to be an auto 3 of in these decks to me.

Kosmon

04-05-2006, 08:13 PM

In which matchups would you rather side in the chalices (and presumably side out the therapies), and in which matchups would you rather side in duress (and keep in therapy)? Chalice for 1 seems like the only reason to play it, but it has anti-synergy with both therapy and duress.

Vs Combo (High Tide), would you rather have 3 therapy + 4 duress, or just 4 chalice? Or is the matchup so bad that you need 4 chalice + 3 therapy + 4 duress just to ensure that you draw one of the above cards, even if playing chalice for 1 invalidates half of the other cards you sided in?

Bane of the Living

04-05-2006, 08:25 PM

High Tide seems to be the worse combo match for you, Chalice does little against them anyways. They can still wish for Chain of Vapor. It doesnt stall them much. I was maindecking Chalice for a while, Im still thinking about it tho playing Gamble and now Top kind of messes that up. I havent played with both the black splashed discard as well as Chalice, it just seems anti synergistic to me.

Therapy and Duress are still good against non combo so keeping the discard over CotV seems like the way to go.

Eric are you finding 3 Assaults and 1 Scarab to be enough win conditions? I was missing my mongrels or Roar's when testing your build. You dont have much hope in racing combo I dont think. Then again.. Fuck the combo match.

Rambo

04-06-2006, 12:48 AM

Have you guys looked at Nassif's list from the grand prix? Its amazing how it can get a confinement lock and a forbid lock to protect it. Its ability to set up is amazing as well. Thoughts?

Lego

04-06-2006, 03:05 AM

High Tide seems to be the worse combo match for you, Chalice does little against them anyways. They can still wish for Chain of Vapor.

Did you just suggest wishing for Chain of Vapor to bounce Chalice for 1?

Negator

04-06-2006, 07:02 AM

Isn't the new Crime//Punishment a much better choice against rifter than Haunting Echoes? Taking out multiple Lightning Rifts seems like a good thing to me...

Amon Amarth

04-06-2006, 06:09 PM

Sexy_Rector

04-06-2006, 10:46 PM

Then again.. Fuck the combo match.

QFT ... Everydeck has their bad matchups, and solidarity/Burn are nightmares. Chalice helps out here against both of these decks.

Specimen

04-06-2006, 11:14 PM

@ Win Conditions: I have found that 3 Seismic Assaults and 1 Scarab have been enough. Especially since you can use some Regrowth effect to get back Dredged Assaults or what not. And Haunting Echoes is a win condition all it's own. That card is freaking sick.

@ Combo: Decks like Solidarity are going to smash us because they are just faster and have Force and Remand. After board you get all sorts of random good stuff to put in, but it is always going to be a tough fight. Slower combo should be much easier as they are more vulnerable to DD and such.

My 2 cents.

I just want to second this statement. Haunting Echoes is unquestionably a super duper bomb-ah!

Regarding the hated combo:
I haven't yet resigned myself to failure, so I'm going to keep working til I find something that works (or I come to my senses). Right now I'm trying out Krosan Reclamations, Anger, and a single Terravore (these all would go in the Metagame slot in SR's build). I'm pretty sure this is closer to trash than tech, but best to try and fail then something something something.

I guess the game would go something like this, play a couple of walls and cycle/tutor to find Seismic Assault to put something resembling "pressure" on the solidarity player. Then when they go off, KR Terravore to top, flashback Cabal Therapy X2-3, cast and swing for win.

If Iggy pop is a problem in your meta, use one of your slots for a Mana Short. All you need to do is Gamble for it, and the beauty is you don't care if you gamble it away. As long as you keep Mox Diamond and two other lands up (or another hypothetical blue source), they cannot go off. You win.

Most every other combo is dealt with Pithing Needle, which is something you might want in your sideboards anyways coughTormod's Cryptcough.

Anyways you guys rock! I know I will continue to leech off of your almighty legacy knowledge (until I can put together a group to do some serious testing).

Amon Amarth

04-07-2006, 04:43 AM

QFT ... Everydeck has their bad matchups, and solidarity/Burn are nightmares. Chalice helps out here against both of these decks.

Well, at least, Burn is stupid and Resets are 20 dollar cards from a decade old set. :D

Sexy_Rector

04-07-2006, 02:26 PM

Kosmon

04-07-2006, 06:02 PM

I did some testing last night, although only a few games so the data is still limited but trinisphere proved to be quite effective versus the combo players. That plus devastating dreams is ohhhh so saucy vs. combo players .....

Are you thinking 3sphere in the SB instead of Chalice? Both are pretty anti-synergestic with many cards in this deck - the question is, which has the best anti-synergy yet devastating-for-opponent ratio?

Warmonger

04-08-2006, 02:03 AM

1st place - Warmonger - Land-Ho!

1 Genesis
3 Eternal Witness

3 Life from the Loam
4 Spark Spray
3 Lightning Rift
3 Roar of the Wurm
3 Devastating Dreams
3 Gilded Light
1 Gamble
4 Mox Diamond
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ray of Distortion

2 Secluded Steppe
2 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forgotten Cave
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Plateau
2 Forest

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Trinisphere
3 Moment's Peace
3 Ray of Revelation
2 Decree of Annihilation
1 Gilded Light

Here is my decklist which let me to win league-tournament about week ago. it's original name is Drap-Drap and I posted it also in competition forum, but...

I slashed white mostly for guilded light which effectively deal with combo and everything that is a threat for us - Crypt, Burn, Echoes, Disciple (?), Chant.

Rift is great against everyting - cheap, unlimited source of burn and DOPES NOT cause card disadvantage.

33 lands are much more useful then than they look - mana screw is VERY rare and immortal Mishras like to win a game.

Deck is immune to most of disruption, both Needle and Scepter/Chant mean nothing to me. Consistence is ubelievable.

Sideboard is universal and gives me chances against everything.

Bane of the Living

04-10-2006, 09:30 PM

Alright guys I cant put this off anymore. Heres the worst tournament report I've ever given..

I played this list at Kadilaks.

3 Wasteland
1 Mishras Factory
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Taiga
1 Volraths Stronghold
4 Mox Diamond

4 Wild Mongrel
4 Wall of Blossoms
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
2 Roar of the Wurm

3 Gamble
4 Burning Wish
3 Devestating Dreams
1 Seismic Assault
3 Life from the Loam
2 Sensei's Divinging Top
3 Cabal Therapy

SB
1 Life from the Loam
1 Devestating Dreams
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cave In
4 Duress
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Pithing Needle

Round 1 Garv
I beat the shit out of him game 1. Dreams is just too much for r/g aggro. Game 2 He kills me with a quick Troll with 2 Rancors on it. Game 3 gets really close. I dreams I think twice and stabilize at 16. I have a mongrel and a roar token. He swings with Rancored Mongrel and I block with only the Wurm... opps. He pitches like 6 cards and Berserks it ftw. Next turn I was going to dredge back and play my Scarab or play my Seismic Assault. Good game Garv.

Round 2 Team Wizards guy with Gobs.
He starts slow and I turn 1 with for LftL. I play 2 Walls and I wait another turn playing mongrel before Dreams. He has a fanatic and 2 drivers out. Eot he vials a third Driver. MAINDECK pyro's a wall. Gempalms another wall. And swings for a whole shit ton. I still cast dreams but a couple more gobs finish the job. Game 2 I had Loam going insanely well but see no Dreams. He drops Goblin King and mountain walks all over my ass ftw. I think I remember winning game 1 or 2.. I forget.

Round 3 SillyMetalGAT with Golden Grahams.
Ok DCI reporter hates us. There are only 4 of us from Worc and we pair up..
Game one he plays and opens with a Bayou, Chromatic Sphere. I play Mox and Wasteland. Instead of playing Gamble and wasting his land I play Burning Wish. He plays a land, LED x2. Living Wish, blow LED's for white, cast Salvagers and win.
Game 2 I mulligan to 5 and my 2 Therapies cant stop him from casting Gamekeeper and finding Darksteel Colossus. Loam scoops to DC hardcore just so everyone knows...

Round 4 Some Old Dude with Dimir
His deck doesnt put up much of a fight, I get the nuts against him of course... He dies to Assault and Dreams both games.

Round 5 Some Dude with Gobs
He starts slow but gains advantage because of Vial. He gets out men and drops Goblin King mountain walk ftw. Game 2 things look ok, I play against gobs as planned and playtested. I Ghastly Demise his Lackey and get Loam going. I start to go aggro against him because Im sick of waiting for Dreams, 2 Dogs on the table, one goes in a turn. I cast Roar. He plays Ringleader and hits the Jackpot. Mountainwalk ftw again!! I did win one game against him but I forget which one.

Round 6 Whit3 Ghost with r/b aggro
I nuke his lands and men but he comes back with Hippy. I cant kill the foolish 2/2 flier and die after a long battle. Game 2 Siege Trolls wtf?? block my men all damn game and his Wrech eats my loam targets. I start coming back with a mongrel and a roar token, he plays Perish.. I stabilize at 3 life with dreams and a couple turns later he bolts me.

So I played out all 6 painfull rounds. A 20 dollar tournament isnt worth dropping. The deck did so poorly it really turned me off the whole aggro control loam concept. Im not sure what went wrong but alot of random cards out of opponents threw me off my games.

Props
Gamble, for never losing me the 'good card' all day.
Life from the Loam, for not showing up in only 1 game.
Lego Army Man, for the piece of cookie.
niknight for the ride.
Bacardi 151 for helping me drown my sorrows.
Anyone else that braved a lftl deck.

Slops
Opponents that mised Goblin Kings.
Siege Troll.
Altered States for wanting 3-5 dollars too much for any given rare.
My luck.

MattH

04-11-2006, 01:59 AM

Sedge Troll, not Siege Troll.

Thanks for the report, I always like reading them!

Lego

04-11-2006, 02:27 AM

Lego Army Man, for the piece of cookie.

Sorry it was only a piece. I think a whole one went to your girlfriend. Also sorry about your abysmal showing. Maybe you should board out Mountains versus Goblins.

Negator

04-11-2006, 04:21 AM

2 Sensei's Divinging Top

How did they work for you? Are they really necessary as an addition to the 8 cycling lands you use?

Finn

04-11-2006, 11:20 AM

Maybe you should board out Mountains versus Goblins.
LoL - You made me spit up my coffee.

Seriously, though, do you usually beat Goblins, Bane?
I was under the impression that the game typically goes well since you stopped using Firestorm.

Kosmon

04-11-2006, 08:39 PM

Finn

04-11-2006, 11:07 PM

Kosmon, Wild Mongrel is so very very good. I would take almost any other card out first. Wild Mongrel is amazing in this deck.

Although wil Volrath's Stronghold, I would consider 1 Eternal Witess.

Bane of the Living

04-12-2006, 06:16 PM

Normally I do have a great matchup against goblins. Then I played against gobs playing random things like Pyrokinesis and Price of Progress maindeck. I dredged all the wrong cards away. I also made a couple misplays like not Therapying Perish out of my opponents hand one game and not blocking Garv's mongrel correctly. I was sick and felt real shitty all day.

I did play with witness for a bit and I did like them but they were cut for mongrels. I would like to say mongrels are working better for me but lately theyve been a tad disappointing. Another card I was upset about all day was the Scarab, he was very slow and I often didnt want to cast him till I had a mana to save him from swords.

I do play Hull Breach, I must have missed that. I couldnt get my hands on a Haunting Echoes on time. I think the store wanted like 12 bucks or something assinine.

I think Ill take the Lightning Rift version into mind. It seems very strong, other than that I suppose Ill test witness again.

MonkeY

04-12-2006, 06:23 PM

I think we have a near to optimal list and a tournament report - shouldn't this be open?

Bane of the Living

04-12-2006, 07:11 PM

We have a couple tourny reports and we have sexy rectors top 8 finish, Id also like to see the deck move into the open forum. Life from the Loam is no doubt a powerful card/engine and I put faith in this archetype for its best showing.

Mr.D

04-14-2006, 08:21 AM

hey people first post here on the source for me.
I have been testing my version of this deck some and i really like scorched earth. In here it often is a one sided armageddon in mid game and can be really nasty early on as well. This ofcourse makes the deck a bit more land destruction focused, witch i think inproves the solidarity matchup a bit since they can't stand having little to no land. But this should be tested further since i still lose more games than i win against it

dontbiteitholmes

04-15-2006, 07:26 AM

You don't really need the full quartet of wastelands. Devastating Dreams handles the land screw by itself very nicely.

Here is an updated list I have been working on,

Mana :::

4x Wooded Foothills
2x Bloodstaind Mire
3x Taiga
1x Bayou
1x Badlands
1x Mountain
1x Forest
3x Wasteland/Barbarian Ring
4x Forgotten Cave
4x Tranquil Thicket
1x Barren Moor
4x Mox Diamond

4x Wall of Blossoms
2x Wall of Roots
2x Eternal Witness
1x Grave Shell Scarab

4x Burning Wish
3x Life from the Loam
3x Devastating Dreams
3x Gamble
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Seismic Assualt
4x MetaGame Slots [additional aggro hate, more discard against control/combo, et cetera]

SideBoard :

1x Devastating Dreams
1x Life from the Loam
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x HullBreach
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Huanting Echoes
Xx Duress
Xx Chalice of the Void
Xx FireStorm/Fire Covenant
Xx Pithing Needle

Changes, the roars were cut because they were pretty inefficent. Although, I discussed the deck with Bane of the Living and he likes Wild Mongrel in the deck, so I could see their inclusions in that build/style of the deck. The manabase was fixed, the bayou was needed because there are games were g/b is more important then red.
I like this deck more everytime I see it. On that note I just can't play it right, it's such an odd deck for my playstyle. At anyrate despite my poor test results could Wall of Blossoms concievable be replaced with Magma Jet? It seems like a lot of times I was playing the Wall then just drawing cards I didn't want and Jet kills every Goblin, everything (except maybe Shade) in Pikula, and kills Mage naming Dreams, then scrys for 2 which seems good to me. Anycrap check out my Plymouth Rock thread. I need some real input not the "Take out Hymn to Tourach" bullshit I've gotten so far. Also Pyroclasm seems like an auto-include in your side. Sometimes blowing a Dreams for 2 and Going into topdeck mode is sad, also Meddling Mage naming Dreams seems like their first move once they figure out what's going on.

Bane of the Living

04-15-2006, 10:10 AM

Devestating Dreams has done fine as a sweeper in the board. I play Cave In instead of clasm. Its quite often free, no one sees that shit coming.

Firebolt has also been good in testing. Ive used it to kill mana men, unmorphed angels, Meddling Mage, Hippy.. ect.

URABAHN

04-15-2006, 11:51 AM

Firebolt has also been good in testing. Ive used it to kill mana men, unmorphed angels, Meddling Mage, Hippy.. ect.

I'd think you'd rather have Lightning Bolt, or is the Flashback on Firebolt that good?

Bane of the Living

04-15-2006, 12:45 PM

I was talking about for Wish targets actually. I did play maindeck Bolt for a while but I was sick of Dredging it away. Or it just not being usefull. Firebolt was a good wish target because Mage NEVER names it. It takes care of alot of odd 2 toughness guys such as mage, hippy, a lonely warchief or driver. Its cheap with burning wish which can be slow. It also does flashback for later damage.

I think I may be cutting the Wishboard out of the deck actually. Theres very few artifacts and enchantments I care about. Worship can be handled by Devestating Dreams killing Mongoose. Humility can be worked around by Seismic Assault or Lightning Rift. Burning Wish was just too fuckin slow. I liked having additional ways to find Loam and friends but I think Id rather them simply BE loam and friends.

I made some revisions from my list, its much different than Erics now. I not only took out wish but the black splash as well. Therapy was good but not broken enough for my likes. I some how, dispite having no opponents with Wasteland, and having Mox Diamonds; had some color problems at Kadilaks. This was usually when I needed to play Burning Wish for Devestating Dreams or cast Seismic Assault. Triple red is a back breaker at times. Maybe this was because I only had Bayou and no Badlands? Im not sure. But black has been cut for more consistancy.

4x Wooded Foothills
2x Windswept Heath
4x Taiga
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Mountain
1x Forest
4x Wasteland
4x Forgotten Cave
4x Tranquil Thicket
4x Mox Diamond

4x Wall of Blossoms
4x Wild Mongrel
3x Eternal Witness
2x Roar of the Wurm

4x Life from the Loam
4x Devastating Dreams
4x Gamble
3x Lightning Rift
3x Spark Spray
2x Seismic Assault

SB
2 Tormods Crypt
4 Pithing Needle
1 Platueo
1 Savannah
3 Ray of Revelation
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Squee, Goblin Naboob

Im trying the rift version. It seems very strong. The burn option is nice since it clears men out of mongrels way. Taking out wish left room for the 4th copies of Gamble, LftL, and Dreams. Dont know how much better this version will do but it seems strong. Having my own Lightning Rift makes the Rifter matchup better as well.

Rambo

04-15-2006, 02:38 PM

@bane
I totally agree with your new list. Triple red was so hard to come by in a three color deck, and lightning rift really helps you finish the game quicker. Siding in white also brings in a huge element of surprise for opposing aggo players and confinenment can win you game two.

Koby

04-16-2006, 12:51 AM

Kosmon

04-16-2006, 05:58 AM

Cutting the black makes definitly makes the deck look more consistent. I would recommend one card to add now that Burning Wish has been cut: Scroll Rack. It also allows you to draw 3 cards, putting 3 cyclers on top, then dredging Life and getting them back, all for a grand total of 2GX. This is much cheaper than trying to do draw cards by cycling.

That actually sounds pretty nice... I'd much rather play scroll rack instead of sensei's top. Drawing 3 is better than looking at the top 3 :P The nice thing about this is that any 3 lands will work.. they don't even have to be cyclers.

About the version without black: My only concern is that cards like Spark Spray are just plain weaker than card like Cabal Therapy. However if the consistency in mana offsets the weakness introduced by less powerful cards, then by all means... But with running 6-7 sac lands, 4 dual lands and 4 mox diamonds I don't see how 3 colors can be that big of a deal, even with seismic costing RRR - you usually aren't going to want to cast it turn 3 anyway.

SillyMetalGAT

04-16-2006, 12:04 PM

Just a thought, but why dont you run Slice and Dice? The only thing it kills is E. Witness, but by the time Slice and Dice kills her, shes already done the job. It seems much stronger than that Spark Spray jank.

What are your thoughts about maybe Fireblast? I mean you can recover from it easily, and it takes down almost everything in Zilla, its a good card against combo (4 free damage??) and it seems a lot easier to deal with the drawback. My other thought was maybe Blood Oath in the sideboard against Solidarity, Stax, or Goblins?

Rambo

04-16-2006, 01:30 PM

In my opinion slice and dice is great, but cant deal with that first turn lackey very well, especially when going second. Even when you dont need to take down a first turn critter you can cycle it away in the late game. I guess it depends on your meta game.

Bane of the Living

04-17-2006, 06:40 PM

Yea Spray is quite comparable to Funeral Charm in Pox. Its the 1 mana utility card that can kill a creature, draw you a card, or dredge loam. If you have 1 or more Rifts out then its 2-x damage. Lackey answers are always good, and if your still playing Mongrels its never dead since its also +1/+1.

@Kosmon
I know what your thinking, how can I not play 3 colors in a manabase like that. Dont forget not only do you have opponents Wastelands and Rishadin Ports to worry about.. But you also play Devestating Dreams 1-2 times a game. The 2 turns after dreams are very important and you often have the wrong colors of mana to cast shit like Therapy.

Also dont forget, when playing this deck you want Wastelock as soon as possible against decks like Threshold. You'll be redropping Wastelands constantly instead of colored lands.

Scroll Rack seems really strong. Ill need to try it. I do recommend giving Top a chance though. Scroll Rack doesnt actually 'draw' cards so it cant Dredge back Loam in a pinch. It costs 2 to play and 1 to activate. Top is 1 to cast and you can use to draw a card for free. I cant tell you how much safer you feel playing Top games 2 and 3. You know your opponent has Crypts but you dont care cause you can snap Loam back anytime. Looking at the top 3 is sick tech when playing a card that dredges three by the way. You skim away terrible shit with Dredge, you'll dredge your Roars away more often, and Top + Fetchlands = god send.

Bane of the Living

04-21-2006, 06:57 PM

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3475

Ok, I have to agree. This deck has good game against aggro thats not Zilla Stompy.

Zilla Ill have you know that decks been trouble for me lately. Dick.

Seismic is good but its still bad with Burning Tree Shaman and Pithing Needle, as well as Jitte w/ counters. Anything equiped with Sword of Fire and Ice is bad for you too.

@Meddling Mage
I find Meddling Mage naming Loam, to just be bad because hitting them with Dreams is digusting. I have alot of Thresh in my Meta. Much more than you, trust me it was born in New Eng. Syracuse in specific. After extensive testing against Thresh I can tell you that Dreams is what theyll need to name to stay in the game. I actually ran a black splash like Sexy_Rector for Duress and Cabal Therapy. Its on this thread somewhere. The black spells helped force through key spells constantly.

@Needle
Yes Some Thresh decks play Needle if they dont run Mage. Thats why I dont play 4 Seismic Assaults in my meta. Maybe in your meta you can play 4 Seismics, I envy you. For me 2 is enough when playing 4 Gambles.

@Silver Knight w/ equip.
I play Wall of Blossoms and Wild Mongrel. Both of which give White Weenie fits. The equip can be trouble but thats when Burning Wish will help.

@8 Cycling Lands
I've found this number to be pretty good. I like sticking to 24/25 lands in this version of Loam. This is the best way to do it. Black splash does this..
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Barren Moor
You should look into..
4 Cave
3 Thicket
2 Steppe

@Werebear
I play Wild Mongrel and Roar of the Wurm. This is a problem my build doesnt share with yours.

.............................
scroll rack is not a removal so it sucks because you are losing time to search for a solution whereas with a removal you would have already played your solution.
why dont you play burning wish it says i wrath your gob i make card advantage with life?
..............................

@Tutoring
Your pro Burning Wish and Gamble but not Top? Tops is a tutor effect that stays on the board, is great with Fetchlands, dredges Loam, and helps dig insanely? Try top, honestly theres no room for Prejuduce against Sensei.

@No Burning Wish
I took Burning Wish out for but at least top doesnt rape my sideboard.

@Spark Spray
I only play it with Rift. Against gobs it kills alot of men. Its great with loam and rift, Against combo its not shit, unlike pyroclasm.

Ive been playing like 3 different Loam decks at the moment so Im trying out alot of varients and cards.

adrieng

04-22-2006, 04:56 AM

i played my deck yesterday
i tested against threshold u/g/r/w
the version which finished first at lille
i went 4/1
the first game was without side
the three others game were with side
i didn t enter anything against him he enter 3 pithing needle +3 tormod's crypt and 2 naturalize
i still win 2 game on three
the real best removal is huùility in this deck when it rersolves it sgame
then i played against gob(r-w version) without side i won 2-0
really easy matchup i was at about 16 life
with swords and pyroclasme it helps a lot
then i played a game against RGSA(burning wish version) i won one zero
then mws crushed so i stopped
i really playing humility is a stronger choice than devastating dreams you should try it

Bane of the Living

05-24-2006, 11:28 PM

Humility has no synergy with the rest of the deck. It doesnt work with the land exploiting, the 3 cards returning to hand aspect of lftl, or dredge. This means it doesnt find a home in the deck.

Dreams has tons of synergy with loam, its a Wildfire/Geddon/WoG with decimal of destruction you choose. Still at the cost of RR.

Is anyone still playing the deck? I think one of the huge strengths the deck has is the ability to tutor for one of lands and just about anything with Gamble. With this in mind I definitly want to run 1-2 Ghost Quarters in the deck. There have been many games where I have Wastelock and my opponent is stumbling on his land drops. Basic lands are perfect targets for Quarters, they also work as land search for my own deck.

Tyler_Durden

05-25-2006, 08:12 AM

I personally think, that Ghost Quarter is simply unplayable. Often the Opponent will do something like float mana get new land and play cc2 spell. That really sucks. Imho if he's in the waste lock it shoudlt be THAT a problem to cast a Drteams for ~3 to get his last lands and go for the win.

edit: what about confidant?

Mr.D

06-02-2006, 11:39 AM

after thinking some about dark confidant in this deck i came to this

Creatures:
4 Dark confidant
3 Terravore

Spells:
4 Mox diamond
4 Duress
4 Life from the loam
4 Gamble
4 Scorched earth
4 Lightning bolt
3 Firestorm
2 Devastating dreams

Lands
4 City of brass
3 Wasteland
1 Babarian ring
1 Mountain
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
2 Forest
4 Wooded foothhils
2 Barren moor
3 Forgotten cave
2 Traquil thicket

sb
4 defense grid
3 lighting rift
4 pithing needle
x meta slots

i use 4 scorched earth instead of 4 devestating dreams since it has a bad synergy with dark confidant and as a way to dump al the land you draw with it. only 3 wasteland because you can recur them and more than 1 in play/hand/grave is barely ever needed. terravore is my main win codition and one of the best in my creature heavy meta, in side them out for rifts vs control

other than that i have to say that i really love to play land-ho in all its forms as its one of the goofyest LD decks around and really works

Bane of the Living

06-02-2006, 03:09 PM

Welcome to the source Mr D.

You have an interesting build going on there. Ive had good results with Scorched Earth as a Burning Wish target but not maindeck, same with Firestorm.

Why are you playing Lightning Bolt? I had it in my deck for a bit till I realized how useless it was. The deck isnt aggro enough to justify the fact it hits the opponent for 3. I would much rather play Wall of Blossoms in that spot. The wall is simply amazing in the deck. It can dredge something when played and it survives smaller Dreams.

Where is Seismic Assault?? The card is just too good not to be playing, seriously.

Bane of the Living

06-07-2006, 10:11 PM

I came across this build of loam on Morphling.de. I dont remember where it was played or by who but it looks interesting.

1 Forgotten Cave
2 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Nantuko Monastery
2 Plateau
4 Savannah
2 Secluded Steppe
4 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Treetop Village
2 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath

2 Nostalgic Dreams
3 Roar of the Wurm
2 Krosan Reclamation
4 Life from the Loam
4 Manabond
3 Moment's Peace
2 Burning Wish
2 Lightning Rift
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Solitary Confinement

Sidebaord
1 Boiling Sea
1 Earthquake
1 Hull Breach
2 Naturalize
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Pyroclasm
2 Ray of Reclamation
2 Second Sunrise
1 Tsunami
1 Wrath of God
2 Zuran Orb

I like the idea of Manabond. It could potentially speed the deck into turn 2 Roar flashbacks, which we know are my cup of tea. Then it beats with a bunch of man lands with possible Confinement shields up. I would have Gamble in here as a 4 of. As Ive found through testing its simply the reason to be playing red in this archetype.

It does look worse against combo due to the lack of discard and dreams. What do you guys think?

Parcher

06-08-2006, 11:27 AM

This has one of the worst manabases I have seen. Three color, with 8 colorless lands, 10 lands that CIP tapped, 2 that don't produce mana, and 2 Fetchlands doesn't seem like it could work. Even with over thirty lands. Any non-basic hate could easily cripple this.

2 Ligthining Rift seems almost random, especially with only 6 cycling cards.

Exploration is almost strictly better than Manabond, and pitching your hand during discard while having Confinement in play is teh suck.

Bane of the Living

06-08-2006, 04:29 PM

Yea I dont really like the list down to the card but I do think the idea of manabond is kinda cool. Especially if you dont own any Explorations. Manabond could help dump Roar into the yard.

Meatwarz

09-03-2006, 12:37 PM

I still play the deck.

Just some points still not mentioned but usefull:

- Last Rites at 1 copy is great in wish-board and it has a great sunergy with a whole deck. As i run 3 Duress And 4 Therapy main i took out the counters first with it then Wish-Rites and destroy opp's hand (vs High Tide and some control-based decks).

- Tormod's Crypt isn't really hard to fight against. You just need ALWAYS to keep 1 mana open to cyclde-dredge LftL and have 2-3 cycle lands in hand to make life engine go on again.

- I don't like attacking creatures (except Mongoose and Scarab), as they always catch the opponents cheap removal (whick nearly every deck is full of).

- I strongly Believe that 6-7 1cc discard spells (Duress/Therapy) are MUST in the MD - and it isn't needed to side 'em out even against Goblins! Why? Because EVERY deck runs graveyard-hate and that spells help you to deal with it or some other stuff that slows you (like disenchant).

Bane of the Living

09-04-2006, 10:28 AM

Wow last rites is an amazing idea. I never considered it. Im very torn between playing wish and not. Its very very slow. I kinda like the redundancy of 4 LftL and 4 Gamble, yet Wish gives you outs against decks like Scepter Chant, and helps with Meddling Mage. I found Burning Wish to be very slow but have since added Exploration. A card that long waited for inclusion. Let me tell you now.. Make room for this fucking card. I cant believe I ever played loam decks without it. What was I thinking?? Burning Wish isnt so slow with it. Losing wishable Haunting Echoes would suck. Its the best win condition in the deck next to Assault.

I agree that attacking creatures are for the lose. I keep 1 Graveshell Scarab and I have 3-4 Eternal Witness in the deck. I'm off and on about Wall of Blossoms, It'll probably stay. Witness + WoB + Therapy//Duress makes your combo//control matchup SO MUCH BETTER!!!11!

I know alot of people are tinkering with the other Lands! deck but as fun and explosive as it is it has no where near the good control//combo matchup this one has. Devestating Dreams deserves more attention.

After some time away I plan to return to this deck now. Hopefull continually evolving Sexy Rectors monster into a tier one beast. This deck really deserves to be in the open forums, lets get it there.

Finn

09-04-2006, 02:55 PM

BotL, could you please post an updated list so I can put it in the opening post. The ones there are too unrefined.

Bane of the Living

09-04-2006, 03:39 PM

BotL, could you please post an updated list so I can put it in the opening post. The ones there are too unrefined.

4x Wasteland
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Mountain
1x Forest
1x Swamp
3x Taiga
1x Badlands
1x Bayou
4x Forgotten Cave
4x Tranquil Thicket
1x Barren Moor
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Mox Diamond

3x Exploration
3x Life from the Loam
3x Burning Wish
4x Gamble
3x Devastating Dreams

3x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress

3x Wall of Blossoms
3x Eternal Witness

3x Seismic Assualt

Thats my current list. I took some pieces of Sexy Rector's most current one. Id post his but if he wanted it here you'd see it I guess. The biggest difference between our builds is he doesnt play with Exploration. I for one am glued to the card. I wouldnt be playing this deck anymore without it. I also cut Graveshell Scarab because drawing him in your opening hand is almost like taking a mulligan. Hes a great win condition in Confinement, but we have Assault and Barbarian Ring to win with. Assault > all.

Wishboard..
1 Shattering Spree
1 Hullbreach
1 Duress
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cave In
1 Last Rites
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Life from the Loam
1 Devestating Dreams
1 Pyroclasm
1 Innocent Blood
1 Firebolt
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Regrowth
1 Nostolgic Dreams

Meatwarz

09-06-2006, 02:10 PM

Wel, i tried out the Exploration and it's just...amazing! It speeds you the great way, and it has only 1 major disadvantage - less cards in hand - random discard.

But i still don't know what to take out for that - Walls of Roots or Moxes. Walls provide you a flashbackable Therapy and protects you early game (which is REALLY important) and Mox has a great sunergy with LftL and allows you a 2cc spell turn 1.

Also cutting down additional win-conditions (Mongoose and Scarab) has a big disadvantage - makes you win the game forever..well ya you can deal with all the slowing down things like Needle and Crypt but it takes too much time and often makes the game end on time, which is periods bad if you lose g1 or is 1-1..

Bane of the Living

09-13-2006, 08:47 PM

My new maindeck changes..

-1 Gamble
-3 Wall of Blossoms
-1 Mox Diamond

+1 Exploration
+1 Burning Wish
+3 Tinder Wall

Wishboard..

- 1 Nostolgic Dreams
+1 Rude Awakening

4 Explorations is better than 3. Gamble is cut to a 3 of for the 4th wish. Exploration makes the deck fast enough to support 4. Wall of Blossoms is replaced for Tinder Wall to make turn 2 Assaults possible, along with quick burning wish mana. I found Rude Awakening on mistake. There were many games where I wished finding myself with 8 lands or more in play. This happens easily with Exploration. I would joke to myself how Rude would be good, so I put it in and it won me 2 games in a row. It continues to dominate. Catching people at 20 life completely off gaurd.

SillyMetalGAT

09-13-2006, 09:47 PM

I found Rude Awakening on mistake.

Give credit where its due asshole.

Bane of the Living

09-13-2006, 09:53 PM

Give credit where its due asshole.

Ok ok, your a mistake.

Finn

09-14-2006, 05:43 PM

I realize that with Exploration, you intend to play a lot of those lands where my builds have always tried to accumulate them and pitch, but this puppy is too good to ignore.

Conflagrate
xxR
Sorcery
Conflagrate deals X damage divided how you choose among any number of target creatures and/or players.
Flashback-RR, Discard X cards. (You may play this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then remove it from the game.)
Illus. Warren Mahy

Look, a win condition that you don't even have to draw. I am giving serious thought to refocusing this deck to take advantage of about three of these. I would say that Conflagrate is just about the most powerful combo card I have seen since Urza Block. Anything that turns one resource (cards in hand) directly into another (damage) is good. This one doesn't even need to be drawn.

Bane of the Living

09-15-2006, 08:08 PM

Holy shit.. this deck is really starting to look tier one.

With my most current build Ive gone undefeated (2-0) against..

White Threshold
Vial Goblins
Suicide Black
Solidarity

Either Im playing better with the deck or I've found the perfect list. Anything that beats the top 3 and black disruption deserves quite a look.

Conflagrate looks amazing. Im already trying to figure out where to make room. Gotta love that its a wish target.

TheDarkshineKnight

09-15-2006, 08:50 PM

skyet

09-27-2006, 02:18 AM

2 Badlands
2 Taiga
3 Barren Moor
2 Mountain
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland

4 Mox Diamond

4 Zombie Infestation
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Burning Wish
3 Duress
2 Contamination
4 Gamble
4 Powder Keg
1 Nostalgic Dreams
3 Devastating Dreams
3 Life from the Loam
1 Seismic Assault
1 Nether Spirit

SB: 1 Devastating Dreams
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Nostalgic Dreams
SB: 1 Hull Breach
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Crime // Punishment
SB: 2 Firestorm
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

bored, and was just remembering how much i enjoyed nether spirit / contamination. less fun w/o vamps and wills, but infestation is pretty good. dunno why this deck needs to really run creatures, i would rather just run keg to take out vial etc. don't think it's worth running more than the 1x nether spirit with all the dredging, basically he would just compliment the 4x infestations. can also get a lock with factory / loam / contamination, but might be pretty bad without exploration (and very good w/exploration?)

anyways, first post here etc looking forward to hearing thoughts on the deck. i had periodically made decks on appr and for a long time played similar deck w/o DD and with smokestack wire and company.. but DD seems like it's the best card ever when it works.

skyet

Available

11-26-2006, 10:47 AM

I've been playing this deck for a while now and found my favourite list; my problem matchup is NQG; the others are quite good. Only Combo decks are another problem, but with some luck, you win these games too.

Here's my list:

4 Wasteland
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Forgotten Cave
2 Barren Moor
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
4 Taiga
1 Mountain
1 Maze of Ith

4 Mox Diamond
2 Wall of Blossoms
3 Devastating Dreams
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
1 Ancient Grudge
4 Duress
3 Life from the Loam
3 Gamble
4 Seismic Assault
3 Burning Wish
2 Exploration
2 Sensei's Divining Top

SB:
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Life from the Loam
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Hull Breach
1 Shattering Spree
1 Regrowth
1 Perish
1 Anarchy
1 Scorched Earth / Kaervek's Torch (don't know wath to play...any suggestions?)
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyroclasm

I'm considering to cut the Pyroclasms for Terravores which should be cool after boarding when they take out their Creature Removal. On the other hand, I could use Kudzus which are not so dependend from the graveyard, especially because they will board crypts and that stuff...

I would also add another Maze to the Mainboard cutting the Mountain or something... what do you think?

Finn

04-06-2007, 02:08 PM

Now that the extended players have "discovered" this deck, it appears to be popping up a lot. Are there any new cards that we can expect to be using in here?

Bane of the Living

04-11-2007, 06:32 PM

So far in Future Sight West Tolaria looks interesting. Altho it doesnt fit the mana base of the deck well it could be tuned to do so. We're already playing Mox Diamond. West Tolaria can tutor for any land in the deck giving us awesome toolbox capabilities with things like Chalice of the Void and Engineered Explosives. Theres also the new land with Dredge 2. The latter would probably fit the deck better.

DeDennis

04-13-2007, 06:36 AM

is it really needed to have such a big toolbox in the board?
what are the decks good and bad matchups (taking Botl his list)

Bane of the Living

04-13-2007, 07:34 PM

is it really needed to have such a big toolbox in the board?
what are the decks good and bad matchups (taking Botl his list)

Definitely not, especially considering Loam is usually what you wish for 30% of the time, Dreams is about 30% as well. Id tell you what to cut but I havent played with the deck for awhile. Chances are you'll wish for Loam almost all the time against decks with Exi.

Conflagerate is an excellent wish target for a win condition.

DeDennis

04-14-2007, 12:28 PM

Seems like the combo matchup is a bit hard. Anyone has insight on this?

Actually I'd like to know more about all the matchups and how to play/mulligan them.

Bane of the Living

04-14-2007, 02:02 PM

Seems like the combo matchup is a bit hard. Anyone has insight on this?

Actually I'd like to know more about all the matchups and how to play/mulligan them.

The combo matchup is hard yes. There are a few ways to go about this. The way most of the Land Ho builds are built are based of Eric Darlands build with the black splash for Duress and Cabal Therapy. The Port some people are refering to is actually his legacy build originally. Treat your combo matchup just like you would in extended. Try to mull to a hand relevant of threats and power such as Exploration, key to keeping up with fast combo. Find the black spells. Find Dreams. Some extended versions of loam kept confinement in for more combo hate and you can do the same here if need be. Running one Savannah is fine and Mox Diamond has your back.

I toyed around with Chalice of the Void for awhile. The drawback is obviously playing it alongside Exploration. I didnt try a version that played both but it seems so counter intuitive. You want Exploration before Cotv@1 obviously but you want it set at one post haste. Like before Aether Vial. The benefit of the artifact is not just the power of CotV@1 but that it makes combo more winnable, the reason I mentioned it. CotV@1 will stop the up coming Extirpates you'll see people bringing in to stop loam. It also stops Tormods Crypts if set at 0. Very important.

The last time I was testing this deck I went 2-0 against a mini gauntlet of Mono Red Gobs, White Thresh, Solidarity, and Pox. The pox matchup seemed to be more of a test of attrition than normal Deadguy or Red Death decks. Both of those are great matches thanks to your namesake.