Chalice + Thorn of Amethyst + Sunburst

[jazzykat]

Hi, I have a thorn of Amethyst on the board and a chalice at 1. I want to cast an EE with 0 counters to blow up goblin tokens.

How can I do this, if it can even be done.

Next, I have a Thorn of Amethyst on the board and a Chalice at 1 my opponent wants to cast an LED, is that possible or is it countered because it now costs 1?

Can someone point to specific floor rules if possible because this may come up tonight and the judges are always willing to take the time to get it right.

[RoddyVR]

Chalice doesnt look at how much you're paying for a spell. It looks at its converted mana cost. That's why a Chalice at 1 and trinishpere are not unsynergystic.

So, for the EE at 0 and challice at 1, announce the EE at X=0, pay 1 in colorless mana to satisfy thorn (if you pay with colored mana, sunburst will put a counter on EE). and chalice will ignore your EE.

A chalice at 0 will not counter FoW played the "remove a card" way. A chalice at 1 will not counter a LED even with a Thorn in play.

[freakish777]

Hi, I have a thorn of Amethyst on the board and a chalice at 1. I want to cast an EE with 0 counters to blow up goblin tokens.

How can I do this, if it can even be done.

Easy, use colorless only mana to get zero sunburst counters on EE while X avoids Chalice (I assume Thorn is in a deck with colorless sources, either Goblins or some Stax varient, keep in mind EE@0 will get rid of Chalice).

[Gocho]

Chalice says:


Chalice of the Void comes into play with X charge counters on it.
Whenever a player plays a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Chalice of the Void, counter that spell.


The converted mana cost of EE is 0 because you choose that X=0, the same for LED, because the converted mana cost appears on the right corner of the card.

http://crystalkeep.com/magic/rules/summaries/indexes/rule-general-203.php

I think that the part you are looking for is this:

# 203.4 - Any additional cost listed in an object's rules text or imposed by an effect isn't part of the mana cost. (See Rule 409, "Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.") Such costs are paid at the same time as the spell's other costs. [CompRules 2003/07/01]

[jazzykat]

So, for the EE at 0 and challice at 1, announce the EE at X=0, pay 1 in colorless mana to satisfy thorn (if you pay with colored mana, sunburst will put a counter on EE). and chalice will ignore your EE.



So it's also possible to get around chalice at 1 by paying a colored mana to thorn and getting 1 counter on my EE if I so desire?

[RoddyVR]

EE gets around Chalice prety easily if you have colorless mana. Biggest reason for this being that the number of counters EE gets is NOT = X, it equals the colors you paid... you can set X to anything and still get just the number of counters that you have colors in the mana you paid with.
Challice however counters EE based on the value of X.

You can set EE to 1 even with chalice at one by paying two green mana for EE if you wanted, the second mana doesnt even have to be colorless (that's if there isnt a thorn around).

With a Thorn and a Chalice at 1, the way to get EE for 1 is either set X to 0 and pay for Thorn with a colored mana, or set X to 2 or more, and pay all 3 (cause of thorn) or more mana with a single color+ 0 or more colorless.

[freakish777]

EE gets around Chalice prety easily if you have colorless mana.

Alternatively all the same color of mana. I frequently play Chalice with X = 4 with two colors of mana in Control mirrors when there's an opposing Counterbalance on the board.

[thefreakaccident]

Alternatively all the same color of mana. I frequently play Chalice with X = 4 with two colors of mana in Control mirrors when there's an opposing Counterbalance on the board.

I make this play all the time when I am playing landstill... threshold just cannot deal with it (no snare, hopefully you are smart enough to stay away form daze, and FoWs are symmetrical between the two of you).

[jazzykat]

Thanks guys! I printed the rules out just in case there was confusion. In case you were wondering, I 5-0ed a 25 person tournament with this knowledge!

[Skeggi]

Alternatively all the same color of mana. I frequently play Chalice with X = 4 with two colors of mana in Control mirrors when there's an opposing Counterbalance on the board.

Do you honestly pay 8 mana for a Chalice!?

[Jaiminho]

I believe that was supposed to be Engineered Explosives.